DMG said ...
MOTI,Actually I meant that she may simply just disagree with your choice.... you wrote the stuff about rebellion.
You do remember that she has a brain of her own... right?
Yes... you are referring to deception. I'm sure you are good at it. I choose not to deceive my kid.
Ces said ...
Dang DMG! This is exactly what DV is talking about when he says..."If you knew anything about women, you'd understand the art of making them think you are "GOING ALONG with"... them."
No DMG, that is not called deception. That is what Capote would describe as "Telling Lies To Tell The Truth".
LOL... Big Hug my friend.
33 comments:
Is that the future son-in-law?
I can never tell how serious you are when you make these types of statements. Are you really going to arrange your daughter's marriage, or are you throwing that out there as a viable option that few Americans consider?
I'm skeptical on the former, but I think the latter is a very, thought-provoking point. Changes the whole dynamic of marriage in some ways. Good discussion starter.
Yea, who is the other child with Snack - both your boys are older right?
Not only have I arranged my daughter's marriage, on my death I've ensured that my daughter, wife AND pets will be slain and entombed with me to keep me comfortable in the netherworld. This is as it should be.
I've thought about arranging my son's marriage but love should evolve on its own. I would have never found my husband if my parents arranged my marriage!
Biiiig Man. Kaaaay Dub.
LOL. Nah man. Not my future son-in-law. Wife's friend's son.
Cool little dude. But not Mr. Snack.
Yeah man. I'm pretty serious. I know it sounds crazy, but I believe it is less crazy than the dating / sex / relationship / serial-monogamy / maybe-marriage ritual that we have today.
Since I've been married I've come to learn how important families are to a healthy marriage.
But families have been all but removed from the dating / marriage ritual in this westernized Secular Orthodox culture.
Middle-class people are still surfing the myth that they can drop their precious little daughters off at some college dorm ... and after 4 years of serial monogamy, graduate and enter the workforce for another 5 or 10 years of additional serial monogamy while in pursuit of the mythological "career" ... and then precious daughter will magically become engaged to some good strong healthy solvent handsome man from a complimentary background ... get married ... and live happily ever.
Nahhhhhh. Doesn't seem to work.
I'm ready to look at different business models Big Man.
If we can shape our children's expectations regarding college, why can we not shape their perceptions regarding marriage?
What you think? You got any girls? You plan on coaching your sons on how to choose a wife?
I talk to my sons about wives the way other cats talk to their sons about football.
Not only have I arranged my daughter's marriage, on my death I've ensured that my daughter, wife AND pets will be slain and entombed with me to keep me comfortable in the netherworld. This is as it should be." phx
^^^LOL. That's what I'm talking about!
I plan on talking to my boys about marriage as soon as they're old enough to understand.
My brother and I always talk about how we think you have to start early preparing kids for the realities of marriage if you want them to make it work.
Arranged marriages bother me because I feel a little uncomfortable removing an adult's free will like that, but I can definitely see the positives.
Studies have shown that countries with arranged marriages have lower divorce rates, and people are typically more satisfied with their unions.
The issue is whether this is due to the arranging of the marriage, or the fact that the idea of what marriage means is different in those countries. As you pointed out, Western culture has created a marriage myth that either glorifies the temporal, unimportant aspects of a lifetime union, or presents a lifetime union as a death sentence to creativity and fun.
Marriage is much more than most people realize and thus more difficult to maintain than most people realize. We do our children a disservice by not explaining the realities of the institution to them, and preparing them to succeed in the union. I think we can do that without actually choosing their mate for them.
But, I'm open to being convinced otherwise. Do you think actually arranging the marriage solves the problem of teaching our children about what marriage means? What are the specific benefits that your daughter would get from an arranged marriage that she wouldn't get from choosing her own partner based on the values you plan to raise her with?
In my family in Egypt, one of my cousins chose her own husband and one of my uncles chose his wife against the wishes of the family.
They both have the absolute worst marriages, utter misery to be in their company and their children suffer for it.
All my cousins whose parents picked a group of eligible suitors for their children have marriages that any American would die for.
I don't know Mahndisa. There is a saying in India that "we don't marry who we love, we love who we marry."
There is wisdom to that. And it certainly has withstood the test of time as compared to its alternative, which has been a miserable failure.
II, I've been with my husband for over twelve years and we've been married for almost eight. My parents did not choose him but they approved of him. I think familial approval is more important than familial
CHOICE of a mate.
We live in America; not India. I have had some intimate relationships (friendwise) with some Indians who have been in arranged marriages. Half of them are happy and the other half are unhappy. BUT it is looked down upon if they were to leave their unhappy relationships so they stay.
From what I understand, your husband is agnostic and Indian right? Did your parents arrange this marriage or did you find him on your own? Given that you are Muslim and Egyptian ti seems like your parents may have arranged a different mate for you.
Usually if the family doesn't like your choice of mate, barring outright prejudice, there is a good reason why. Years ago, I had to choose between my husband and another suitor. If I'da listened to the women of my family, I would be very unhappy with a guy who turned out to be an alcoholic and loser.
Intelligent Insurgent, that saying makes a lot of sense to me.
M. Rigmaiden, How would you know the outcome of a situation that never developed?
I think familial approval is more important than familial
CHOICE of a mate.
Indeed Mahndisa. No doubt.
Although I chose my husband, there is no way we would be together if my family didn't approve 100%. They all LOVE him, more than they love me. LOL!!
I don't poo poo the idea of an arranged marriage, however, the way Egyptians do it because I've seen it work. It's not like India where the children are pledged to each other and may never meet until the wedding. Typically in Egypt, or at least the way my family does it, when someone is of marrying age, they put the word out to other families of the same class looking for suitable matches.
Most of my cousins met a few men or women, as the case may be, from those families and married whomever seemed a good fit. Because they keep marriage to the same class, they likely knew or knew of the potential mate before the families suggested something.
All that said, one of my cousins here in the U.S. who was born here and is as Americanized as they come, got frustrated going nowhere dating American women and reluctantly agreed to letting his parents put the word out for him. He was married 9 months later.
If your family has sense, they won't pick a knucklehead. I've already got four potentials lined up for my little girl. :-)
MOTI you are assuming your little girl will actually GO ALONG with your plan to choose her man. Good luck with that. If your little girl has as much personality as you seem to have...you may be in for a rude awakening. Either way, I hope she has a wonderful and healthy life even if it's in spite of her daddy's narcissism.
II,Thanks for the distinction between Egyptian arranged marriages and what occurs in India. A lot of us are unaware of these nuances. Yes, your family LOVES your man although you chose him. Same applies here.
To answer your question Ces, there was a minor war among some women of my family over which man I should have chosen at the time. Some felt I should choose this very dapper and handsome man who was financially stable, loved his mother and was well versed in the humanities. Others felt that I should choose the handsome, financially stable software engineer who didn't speak much but has a heart of gold. Needless to say, I chose the software engineer.
Strangely enough, I found out about the other suitor by perusing Alameda County Superior Court case summaries for some legal research I've been doing. A couple of years back, at damner fifty years old got EVICTED from his apartment.
That is too much for me. Obviously I made the right choice.
LOL ...
What up DMG.
Ah man. That's funny.
But nah Plantation MD. As usual, your expectation that a father and daughter could not possibly see eye to eye on a matter such as marriage partners is something else programmed into your head by too much television.
The cliched meme of the rebellious, resentful, disdainful daughter eager to free herself from the clutching grasp of an anachronistic overbearing father ... who "just doesn't get it" ... is something else planted into the heads of you eager-to-assimilate Negros still parroting the relationship dynamics of fictional white characters you witnessed on the boob tube.
LOL. "GO ALONG with".
Man please.
If you knew anything about women, you'd understand the art of making them think you are "GOING ALONG with" ... them.
"t damner fifty years old got EVICTED from his apartment." M
But M.
That's what happened to him, WITHOUT you.
With you he may have become the 45th President of the United States.
Your lil girl is so pretty DV. Find a great man for her.
...There is sweet talk, and then there is Denmark Vesey...
I have never met a cat on the internet more willing and able to sweet talk a woman than Denmark Vesey.
I'm gonna try out this tactic of constant sweetalk and compliments. It goes against my natural predilection for blunt conversation, but hey, change is good. Women apparently like this stuff. Explains a lot of my problems.
My point was simple, decisions shape our lives. People influence our decisions and actions. You will only know the outcome of a decision on the long run. There was no right or wrong decision in that case at that moment.
All I am saying is that you cannot deny the influence of someone in your life. Everything around shapes you, and you shape everything that is around.
"Wherever we are, it is our friends who make up our world" Henry Drummond
DV, 20 years from now. Your daughter gets married to the dude you want. I am gonna be positive, it turns out a good marriage. Would it have been the same w/o you?
I think prearranged marriage is a "cuchillo de doble filo" (A double edged knife). You will carry a lot of responsibility in your daughter's adult life. But I understand the point of wanting the best for her.
If you knew anything about women, you'd understand the art of making them think you are "GOING ALONG with" ... them.
True.
-Solid communities
-Keep'm from public school
-Shoot your television
Mix well
cover and let simmer
then serve
"My seeds marry his seeds
We keep Wu Tang money
All up in the family"
-Reakwon
Hey Ces, you are right that we all shape and influence each other. Sometimes, in the interest of sanity we have to break ties with people and wish them well from afar, though- which is what I ultimately did with the former suitor;)
Over the years, my 'friend' began to drink excessively and did not want to change his negative behavior...
MOTI,
Actually I meant that she may simply just disagree with your choice....you wrote the stuff about rebellion.
You do remember that she has a brain of her own...right?
"If you knew anything about women, you'd understand the art of making them think you are "GOING ALONG with" ... them."
Yes...you are referring to deception. I'm sure you are good at it. I choose not to deceive my kid.
Speaking of this topic, my husband has a buddy from India who is in his forties and his parents are pissed that he hasn't married yet. The problem is that he is gay and doesn't really feel attracted to women but he hasn't told his parents for fear they might disown him.
This is another complexity of trying to run your child's life. You might hook her up with a homosexual unknowingly and then her marriage would be a farce.
I like the way II said they do it in Egypt- there are a variety of people to choose from out of a marriage pot. I'd much prefer that than a betrothal to one person in childhood later to find that the person ain't cool!
MOTI,
Actually I meant that she may simply just disagree with your choice....you wrote the stuff about rebellion.
You do remember that she has a brain of her own...right?
Dang DMG! This is exactly what DV is talking about when he says...
"If you knew anything about women, you'd understand the art of making them think you are "GOING ALONG with" ... them."
Yes...you are referring to deception. I'm sure you are good at it. I choose not to deceive my kid.
No DMG, that is not called deception. That is what Capote would describe as "Telling Lies To Tell The Truth".
LOL... Big Hug my friend.
DV, You finally found a pic that portrays DMG as a surgeon. Cool. I don't know too many walking around the hospital with stethoscopes around their neck. You just don't see that.
Telling lies to tell the truth? Interesting concept. Why not just tell the truth? Also you should know that our host does not truly respect the female mind. I'm sure his daughter will very soon become hip to his deception and call him on it when he tries to arrange her marriage. Whatever, not my kid...but then again, I have a son...who is damn goodlooking.
So, by the way MOTI how old is your daughter? :)
NEA, we carry them in our pockets. Only the non-surgical specialties like to wrap them around their necks like dog collars.
IMO with present-day stats on Black, educated, single women being around 42% arranging her marriage is not a bad thing. Of the Black men that are eligible to marry only 54% are not incarcerated, gay or tied up in someway or other; lessening the chances of the SBF (single Black female) finding a man.
Arranging a daughter's marriage is securing her life partnership in the future; just as a parent would financially arrange for their daughter to get a college education. I don't favor the rigid method, but prefer having someone in mind (in agreement with the other family) with the right of refusal, like II described, then there's nothing wrong with that. IMO the main lesson to the child is that marriage is a priority and a life/love investment just like getting a degree.
...one
RE: The pic.
Doc I thought you'd protest and say you're much better looking, like you did with the Dr Murray one - that was funny.
KonWomyn,
Yeah, that picture does not do me justice, but at least it's a guy who wears his scrub hat correctly.
Telling lies to tell the truth? Interesting concept. Why not just tell the truth?
Because Truth demands a process my friend. Truth is not Truth by just sayin' it. Truth is Truth through understanding, discovering, frustration, questioning, skepticism, misunderstanding, errors... the list goes on.
You can only show your children the paths, they have to go through the one they choose. You can only teach them your truth, they have to discover theirs.
You just make sure they don't fall in absolute falsehood.
Also you should know that our host does not truly respect the female mind.
Is that true DV?, what a shame!
"Because Truth demands a process my friend. Truth is not Truth by just sayin' it. Truth is Truth through understanding, discovering, frustration, questioning, skepticism, misunderstanding, errors... the list goes on."
Ces ... Ces ... Ces.
What a wonderfully liberating acknowledgment of the obvious. Bravo.
Sadly, it is a tad bit beyond the cognitive capacity of our House MD who can't appreciate anything not taught to him.
Well done Ces.
"Also you should know that our host does not truly respect the female mind."
"the female mind".
How pedestrian?
There is no such thing.
Plantation MD's are glorified mechanics.
How deluded is the mind who believes his feeble thoughts are sublime.
MOTI, Ce-lo...the fact that you actually BELIEVE you have the power to "arrange" anything is pure comedy.
You concentrate on my MD, but forget I've lived a full and fruitful life before medical school.
The only thing pedestrian is your thought process. Again...your kid, fantasize all you like.
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