TheJessie52
She has good points. The way the media is hyping this to begin with makes the whole thing suspect. The mainstream media is just a tool for the government. Anyone that thinks the government acts for our good, should know better by now. The government is in it with the power elite running the world.
jrm404
She has point. There were no long term tests done on the swine flu vaccine. The short term tests were done without a placebo and the FDA just approved it with the drug companies independent tests. Only 1000 have in the U.S. have died of swine flu since April. 55,000 die of pneumonia each year. Where is the Pandemic Level 6 for pneumonia?
DMG said ...
Interesting. My son's godfather happens to be a professor at her old University and is a contemporary of "Lääkäri Luukanen". I think I'll give him a call and ask about your "former Finnish medical officer".By the way did she have time to do this interview between writing about her UFO contacts and mind control lectures? Just curious.
And just so you don't think I'm just "attacking this poor woman"...a few facts. In the United States flu season usually starts around week 40 (Around October) peaks in mid-late winter and ends about April.
1. So saying "only" 1,000 have died of H1N1 flu doesn't tell the story, as we those deaths did not occur IN FLU SEASON...which is significant. And this season is just beginning.
2. Asking for a pandemic level 6 for pneumonia is silly, because there are many etiologies for pneumonia..viral, bacterial, fungal. It's apples and oranges.
Denmark Vesey said ...
Fair enough Doc. Both good points. (Interesting the FLU SEASON seems to peak when the SUN SEASON is at its nadir)However, this very level headed public official makes several interesting assertions that you seem to have ignored in favor of alluding, yet again, that the messenger is flawed.
1) "Swine Flu is not as dangerous as the injection because it is not only swine virus, but it is also human virus, mixed with bird virus". Doc - Is that true? Is she right? Does not that natural aberration cause you pause? Did a pig, bird and dude have an orgy? How does an establishment physician suppose those viruses jump species?
2) "There is a law in the states that prohibits the manufacturers of the vaccines from being held liable by the damages caused by these vaccines." Doc, I'm sure you pay Malpractice Insurance. Why doesn't the government grant you the same immunity it has granted vaccine manufacturers?
3) "The World Health Organization declared this a Level 6 Pandemic ... in JUNE! As if there are millions of people dying. Go to any country in the world, millions of people are not dying of the swine flu." She's right Doc. Other than the media hype ... no more people appear sick or dying from the flu this year than any other year. Maybe a thousand this year? And that's pushing it. You remember the CBS investigation revealed 84% of reported swine flu deaths turned out, after laboratory testing, not to even be flu at all, and 98% turned out not to be swine flu. What gives?
21 comments:
Interesting. My son's godfather happens to be a professor at her old University and is a contemporary of "Lääkäri Luukanen". I think I'll give him a call and ask about your "former Finnish medical officer".
By the way did she have time to do this interview between writing about her UFO contacts and mind control lectures? Just curious.
And just so you don't think I'm just "attacking this poor woman"...a few facts. In the United States flu season usually starts around week 40 (Around October) peaks in mid-late winter and ends about April.
1. So saying "only" 1,000 have died of H1N1 flu doesn't tell the story, as we those deaths did not occur IN FLU SEASON...which is significant. And this season is just beginning.
2. Asking for a pandemic level 6 for pneumonia is silly, because there are many etiologies for pneumonia..viral, bacterial, fungal. It's apples and oranges.
Apparently this woman is quite well informed. We should heed her word to the fullest. As she says the Nazis visited the moon in the 1940's and the U.S. has had an atmospheric safe McDonald's on Mars since 2006. You've been digging DEEP--in the garbage for your nuts and berries.
Level headed public official is kind of a stretch don't you think?
I'll play along, I'm waiting for CT results that will take an hour anyway...
1) "Swine Flu is not as dangerous as the injection..."
Well, maybe you should ask yourself how many people have been or are currently fighting for their lives as we speak with novel H1N1 viral pneumonitis leading to respiratory failure, and how many people are dead after being vaccinated and have a confirmed link. Kind of simple isn't it...
Does it cause me pause. Not at all. Gene recombination isn't some rare event. Guess you've never coughed near a bird.
2) "There is a law in the states that prohibits the manufacturers of the vaccines from being held liable by the damages...."
Perhaps II can chime in and explain what must be proven to sue someone for medical malpractice...it's not very simple. But enough about me...this was enacted to prevent frivilous lawsuits, since there will be a number of people who will try to claim harm for an illness that occurred coincidental to vaccination. I don't want immunity from proseceution. I just try not to screw up. So far so good.
3) "The World Health Organization declared this a Level 6 Pandemic ... in JUNE! ..."
Didn't we go over this already? Phase 6 of the WHO pandemic alert is here:
"Phase 5
is characterized by human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region. While most countries will not be affected at this stage, the declaration of Phase 5 is a strong signal that a pandemic is imminent and that the time to finalize the organization, communication, and implementation of the planned mitigation measures is short.
Phase 6
the pandemic phase, is characterized by community level outbreaks in at least one other country in a different WHO region in addition to the criteria defined in Phase 5. Designation of this phase will indicate that a global pandemic is under way."
I think criteria have been met, don't you think? The idea is the declare a pandemic so millions of people WON'T die. See how that works?
"... no more people appear sick or dying from the flu this year than any other year."
How is it that you've tallied the morbidity and mortality numbers when we are only in week 2 of Northern Hemisphere flu season?
I guess you didn't read what happened in the Southern Hemisphere's flu season peaking in June-August...where ICU admits for viral pneumonitis related respiratory failure is 15 times the previous 3 year average, during which time the novel H1N1 strain was the dominant virus during there flu season and there was a reported 16.9% mortality. I guess your demands that I post links and evidence is just for show. You see I actually post data. Perhaps you should read it. I read the bullshit you send.
The folks that have died in the U.S. were OUTSIDE of flu season, which should make YOU pause. I don't know where CBS news is getting their data or if it was even verified. I know where I'm getting mine.
Please feel free to tell all your friends about sunshine and Vitamin D. I wish your children good health, and hope they neither get the virus nor pass it on to others if you choose not to vaccinate them. Unfortunately, you've never entertained the thought that you may be (and actually are) wrong.
Hopefully, that realization doesn't come in the middle of the night around the 3rd week of January.
Hopefully, the emergency departments and ICU beds aren't full.
Hopefully, it's mild and nothing serious.
Hopefully, I or one of my colleagues won't have to meet you under those circumstances.
Risk/Benefit. You've made your choices for your entire family. You have to live by them good or bad. For better or worse. I wish your family nothing but continued health. But we will always be there for you when you need us.
Level headed public official is kind of a stretch don't you think?
them LaRouchies are somethin else, ain't they?
However, this very level headed public official makes several interesting assertions that you seem to have ignored in favor of alluding, yet again, that the messenger is flawed.
rotflmbao....,
So CNu ... when are you getting vaccinated?
Perhaps II can chime in and explain what must be proven to sue someone for medical malpractice...it's not very simple.
You essentially have to prove that whatever happened did not meed the medical standard of care. To prove that, you have to get enough highly credentialed doctors to be your witnesses to testify what the standard of care is and that the offending doctor did not meet it.
As you can imagine, doctors don't like to snitch on one another, so it has to be quite an open and shut case to find an expert who will get on board.
this was enacted to prevent frivilous lawsuits, since there will be a number of people who will try to claim harm for an illness that occurred coincidental to vaccination.
That may be the public story told to the sheeple, but this is not how frivolous lawsuits are discouraged. There may be caps on damages, stringent standards on burdens of proof, but there is no justification to grant any industry immunity from liability for their products.
Big Pharma put itself above the law - and the politicians let them - in order to get away with putting out a poisonous product. Plain and simple.
Ohhh! Hellll Na II!
GTFOH! You are not a MALPRACTICE attorney!!! Aren't you an ENTERTAINMENT attorney?! You can't possibly have any insight on a matter like this beyond your legal specialization!!! You don't have the AUTHORITY to have an opinion here. Who certified you to have an opinion? Who gave you permission to think? How dare you state the obvious!!! Didn't you believe in Santa Claus as a kid? See! Everything you think now is forever invalid.
II,
Come on now...we both know you've glossed over a few things. Kindly give us the full story of what is required to prove medical malpractice, without the biased editorializing. Don't make me do it for you.
Please, please do it for me. I am sure you are very proud of yourself that you know the elements of a malpractice claim and are dying to show how smart you are.
Don't let me get in the way of that.
"Please, please do it for me."
II, such dirty talking from a married woman...if I were more light skinned I'd blush.
Actually, my dear, I asked YOU to give us the elements of medical malpractice because law is YOUR area of expertise, not mine. I defer to your knowledge of the law.
• Existence of Duty
o The existence of a duty of care exists because of the contractual relationship between the patient and the doctor, hospital, or other health care provider. When the physician-patient relationship is established, the physician has a duty to:
Possess the medical knowledge required of a reasonably competent medical practictioner (health care provider) engaged in the same specialty, and
Possess the skills requred of a reasonably competent health care practitioner engaged in the same specialty, and
Exercise the care in the application of that knowledge and skill to be expected of a reasonably competent health care practioner in the same specialty, and
Use the medical judgment in the exercise of that care required of a reasonably competent practitioner in the same medical or health care specialty.
o This duty of care applies to the physician in all specialties or health care fields - medicine, chiropractic, osteopathy, optometry, dentistry, etc.
o Generally, a health care professional does not have a duty to someone who is not a patient. However, a psychotherapist may have a duty to warn a person if a patient has made specific threats against that person and the patient has the ability to carry out those threats. In such instances, the law usually permits a psychotherapist to breach his or her duty of confidentiality and warn the person threatened by the patient.
• Elements of Proof- Breach of Duty
• Unlike ordinary negligence cases, proving that a health care professional breached his or her duty of care involves showing what a reasonably competent health care professional would have done in a similar situation. Consequently, expert witnesses, buttressed by medical literature, are usually needed to show a deviation or breach of the standard of care.
• Although the law in Kentucky is such that any licensed medical doctor can provide an opinion concerning any field of medical practice, the experts needed in a medical malpractice case must be from the same or closely related field of the medical practice of the defendant sued by the plaintiff.
o Informed Consent: Extent to which physician must disclose risks and hazards of proposed medical procedure, for purposes of determining whether patient consented to treatment, must be evaluated in terms of what the physician knew or should have known at the time he recommended the treatment to patient
• Elements of Proof- Damages
o The recoverable damages in a medical malpractice claim is the same as in other personal injury/wrongful death actions cased by the negligence of another
o Medical Expenses (past and future)
o Lost Income/Wages
o Impairment to Ability to Labor and Earn Money
o Pain and Suffering – Physical, Emotional, Past and Future
o Loss of Consortium –Spouse, Parent, Child
• Elements of Proof- Proximate Cause
• Proximate cause consists of finding of causation in fact, i. e., substantial cause, and absence of public policy rule of law which prohibits imposition of liability. Duetsch v. Shein, Ky., 597 S.W.2d 141 (1980).
• In determining whether negligence was substantial factor in causing harm, substantial factor test applies to event which results in injury, not injury itself, and injury need only flow directly from event.
• Determination of proximate cause is a factual one, not a legal one, depending upon whether the evidence shows that the results of misconduct are reasonably foreseeable. Grayson Fraternal Order of Eagles v. Claywell, Ky., 736 S.W.2d 328, 334 (1987).
• It is an accepted principle that in most medical negligence cases, proof of causation requires the testimony of an expert witness because the nature of the inquiry is such that jurors are not competent to draw their own conclusions from the evidence without the aid of such expert testimony.
The elements are in the link above. In my limited experience in the malpractice area, the proof battle is usually waged with regard to (i) what the standard of care is for a particular treatment/diagnosis/ailment, etc. and (ii) whether the doctor met the standard of care.
This is a battle of the experts. One doctor gets up and says the standard of care requires x, y and z in the circumstances and Defendant Dr. only did x and y. The defense expert will predictably testify that only x and y were required.
All the doctors can be equally published, credentialed, experienced, etc. and still fundamentally disagree on the standard of care, which confirms that there is no hard and fast "science" of medicine.
Causation can also be a fight because there is, of course, the issue of whether a guy with inoperable lung cancer died because a doctor failed to diagnose his heart problem.
Sooo, anyhoo, all that is to say that with the rigors of proving negligence and malpractice, there is absolutely no justification to grant vaccine manufacturers legal immunity from the consequences of their products. None. It has nothing to do with frivolous lawsuits.
I can't imagine the difficulty a lawyer would have to get a medical expert to testify that a vaccine caused a child's problems. All doctors know that would be the end of their careers, no matter how correct the position or solid the proof.
It is a sacred cow that is aggressively guarded.
"I can't imagine the difficulty a lawyer would have to get a medical expert to testify that a vaccine caused a child's problems."
Do you mean that it would NOT be difficult? I so, I disagree, it would absolutely be difficult, because there are volumes of evidence that states that vaccines are safe, and that's what I've been linking to the past few days.
Here's the thing II, right now the VIRUS is killing people. Don't care of you don't believe me, I've watched in several times take the lives of people in front of my eyes. Never not once have I seen or heard with any credible evidence that a vaccine has been directly linked to anyones death. All medicines (and really anything one ingests) have risk. The Risk/Benefit ratio for vaccinations is low risk, high benefit. This year especially.
That's the bottom line, not reading into conspiracy.
I was suggesting that it would be so difficult as to be virtually impossible to find a doctor who would in any way attack the sacred cow of vaccines.
Which is precisely why there is absolutely no justification for granting the vaccine manufacturers immunity from their product (which is how this discussion started). The burden on proof on the plaintiff would be so difficult as to provide a sufficient deterrent against frivolous lawsuits.
Of course you haven't seen any "credible" evidence of a link between vaccines and problems. Because credibility is in the eye of the beholder and you only find credible old Jewish guys who publish baloney in JAMA.
My neighbor's 1-year-old daughter was hospitalized 2 days after receiving the barrage of poisons at her "well care" visit. The doctors, nurses and everyone else lined up in military formation when the parents even hinted that their daughter's exceptionally high fever and out of the ordinary behavior could be linked to the shot two days earlier.
No way was their response. No way, look elsewhere, two days means nothing, blah, blah, blah.
Gotta love seeing the scientific method in action.
I find mothers far more credible than doctors. Which brings up a funny point. Was at my doctor's office yesterday and she loves to tell stories of the hospitalists she deals with. One of her patients went to the ER and the ER doc wrote some stuff in the medical chart, including a note that the patient's physician couldn't be reached to confirm whatever the problem was and that he got an answering service when he tried to reach Dr. Sunday afternoon.
The fatal error that ER Doctor made was that my Dr. is reachable 24-7 and is open from 9-6 on Sundays. No phone call ever came in and he FALSIFIED the medical records because he was too lazy to follow through on the patient's condition. My Dr. called this DumbDumb's boss and gave him two choices - fire Dumb Dumb or she'd report both to the medical board for FALSIFYING medical records. Dude is now out of work.
It reminded me of stories my sister has told me of ER doctors in particular being known for writing false records to make it look like other doctors approved things they didn't approve, to pass off mistakes to more junior doctors, etc. Apparently, it's quite common.
Doctors have a credibility problem Doc.
II
"Doctors have a credibility problem Doc."
Or Some Doctors? Do Lawyers have a credibility problem or some lawyers?
Prior to vaccines what did people do during the influenza pandemic of 1580?? or the Russian flu of 1889. How about the Spanish flu from 1918-1920 when an est. 20MM died??
Just curious as to what other options you an DV are offering up?
II,
Your suggestion hinges on the myth of conspiracy. And that's my problem with most of the stuff here...you expect us to make that leap of faith (leaving our sanity behind) that some cabal in a wood paneled room is at the root of all of the worlds problems.
I'm surprised you actually HAVE a doctor with all the comments you make online here. I asked for your learned opinion...not an anti-semitic anti-physician emotional diatribe. Your neighbors kid got sick. Your neighbors kid had vaccines. The only link is coincidental timing. Repeat after me "correlation does not equal causation".
Thank you for your time.
Oh my God, I said the word Jewish and the Plantation robot reflexively yells anti-Semitism. Dayyum Festas. They got you well-trained.
Like I said, all that faux scientific method baloney goes out the window when the question asked is one to which the answer is unwanted. Correlation does not equal causation, but those doctors and nurses did no tests and observations and the like to conclusively rule out vaccines as the cause. Because that's not what they do. They parrot the party line.
Just like you did reflexively when you read the word Jewish.
And it is quite an interesting cliffhanger that you don't even attempt to refute the comments about the culture of falsifying medical records.
As for Casper, if lawyers were pushing the H1N1 vaccine, I'd be the first one to jump up and say that the profession had no business doing so. Indeed, it is precisely when lawyers start lobbying for things that my suspicions are raised.
Other options to vaccines? It's called a healthy immune system fortified with Vitamin D, good sleep and nutritious alive food. I realize that is a radical concept and one that may take a while to grasp, but it's remarkable.
II,
Religion and ethnicity are irrelevant in this conversation. You said it to get an effect. That's why I called you on it.
Counselor, you are giving opinion rather than stating facts.
I think anyone who falsifies a medical record should lose their license. Period. That make you feel better? Nobody I know falsifies records. In surgery we have a culture of standing in front of our peers to be crucified once a month at Morbidity and Mortality conferences. People don't get away with stuff. I don't know any other profession who checks itself so often.
"Other options to vaccines? It's called a healthy immune system fortified with Vitamin D, good sleep and nutritious alive food. I realize that is a radical concept and one that may take a while to grasp, but it's remarkable."
Perhaps lawyers should read a chapter of immunology before they tout their preventions and cures. Very few here seem to know what class of receptor mediates Vitamin D, how vitamin D is formed, and it's main function. If you don't know the basics, how are you going to recommend it?
I'm sure you and your colleagues would laugh at an innocent but illiterate man who would attempt to defend himself in a highly complex murder case against a wealthy well educated accuser. It would very likely be a sure way to the death penalty or life imprisonment. Or if your child was accused of some heinous crime would you want the best criminal defense lawyer you could find...or someone who got his/her degree online and didn't understand the basics?
II
"It's called a healthy immune system fortified with Vitamin D, good sleep and nutritious alive food. I realize that is a radical concept and one that may take a while to grasp, but it's remarkable."
So are you suggesting that prior to your recognition of such a healthy lifestyle that no human prior practiced or practices healthy living standards. Or did KFC exist in the 15th,16th,17th,18th & 19th centuries. Listen... you and DV seem to conveniently overlook the history of pandemic castastrophes in human history. The millions of people who have died in 24month or less periods due to the flu. You also allude to the premise that vaccines are only an American phenomenon.Forced on people by greedy doctors. Interesting as Egyptian health officials are developing their own H1N1 vaccine as we speak while importing batches from the U.K. .. Go Figure?
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