Sunday, August 29, 2010

Just As Much A Slave As Chicken George

37 comments:

makheru bradley said...

Were Plantation Crackas robbed of the fruits of their labor for 246 years, resulting in no intergenerational transfers of wealth for this period of time?

Do Plantation Crackas hate themselves based on the color of their skin, the texture of their hair, their physical features?

Does the Plantation Cracka worship a God that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?

Does the Plantation Cracka speak a language that is alien to the continent of his origin?

Does the Plantation Cracka answer to a name that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?

Does the Plantation Cracka wear clothing and eat food that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?

Does the Plantation Cracka matriculate in educational institutions which extol the virtues of his history?

Is the Plantation Cracka constantly bombarded with negative images of himself by the corporate media?

Is the Plantation Cracka currently dealing with the residual effects of slavery, such as the psychodynamics of Black self-annihilation in service of white domination?

Michael Fisher said...

^Not to forget that the Plantation Cracka was not the Crackee.

makheru bradley said...

Here’s your “Just as much a slave as Chicken George Plantation Cracka.”

[It is the summer of 1856, slave catcher James C. Knox is tracking the escaped slave Big Sandy. Knox owns no property and earns his living by hunting down runaway slaves. Knox needs the reward money. He has set out from east Baton Rouge, Louisiana confident he will catch Big Sandy. Big Sandy has spent his entire life enslaved. Known for his contempt of white authority, he has been repeated whipped by his Louisiana owner Robert Davis, he’d sooner kill than be returned to slavery.

When Knox’s trained bloodhounds finally track down Big Sandy he refuses to surrender. They start to fight, for fifteen minutes the hunter and the hunted struggle. A final blow ends Big Sandy’s dreams of freedom, James Knox fails to return Big Sandy alive and will not get paid. It’s the cost of doing business when you’re a slave hunter.

Over a period of three hundred years of slavery in America, slave owners would build a sophisticated structure to sustain this brutally corrupt and immoral system. A system of controls that began with militia, grew to include citizen patrol and slave hunters and became so vast that by 1850 with passage of the Fugitive Slave Law, every American was required to be a slave catcher.] Slave Catchers/Slave Resistors

[Frederick Douglass spent a year,1833, with Covey, during which he was frequently and brutally whipped. Having spent considerable time in the city, Douglass was not familiar with farm instruments and techniques. Because of this unfamiliarity, he made mistakes and was continually punished.

Covey pushed his slaves to the limit, making them work long hours, and he constantly spied on them to make sure they did the work. Despite his professed religious piety, Covey saw profit in breeding slaves, so he bought a female slave and hired a married man to have sex with her for a year. Douglass confesses that witnessing this inhuman tyranny may have been the lowest point in his life for he contemplated killing Covey and ending his own life.

One hot day in August, Douglass collapsed from fatigue, an event which led to matters that changed his life. Covey came by, kicked him, and gave him a beating.

A few days later, however, Covey pounced on him. This time, Douglass decided to physically resist. In the ensuing fight, Douglass gained the upper hand, and, after nearly two hours of wrestling and struggling, Covey finally gave up. Douglass recalls:

"Covey at length let me go, puffing and blowing at a great rate, saying that if I had not resisted, he would not have whipped me half so much. The truth was, that he had not whipped me at all."

Douglass thinks that because Covey enjoyed a widespread reputation for being the region's best slave breaker, it provided him with plenty of free labor, and he didn't want to punish Douglass any further because doing so would be an admission of his having lost a physical fight. For the rest of Douglass' stay, Covey didn't touch him again. Douglass recalls: "This battle with Mr. Covey was the turning-point in my career as a slave. It rekindled the few expiring embers of freedom, and revived within me a sense of my own manhood. It recalled the departed self-confidence, and inspired me again with a determination to be free."]--
Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass by Frederick Douglass

Denmark Vesey said...

1) "Were Plantation Crackas robbed of the fruits of their labor for 246 years, resulting in no intergenerational transfers of wealth for this period of time?" MB

Uh ...

Actually. Yeah.

Slavery existed in Europe for centuries.

2) "Do Plantation Crackas hate themselves based on the color of their skin, the texture of their hair, their physical features?" MB


LOL. I don't know MB. I suggest you wait outside one of the 26,000 tanning salons on this country and ask one of them as they come out lathered in bronzer.


3) Does the Plantation Cracka worship a God that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?

Yup.

Today, most Plantation Crackas worship the devil. Although they don't realize it. (That goes for Plantation Negros too)

4) "Does the Plantation Cracka speak a language that is alien to the continent of his origin?" MB

Yup. As a matter of fact.

American Plantation Crackas speak an Americanized version of TV English.

Very few Plantation Crackas are genetically English.

5) "Does the Plantation Cracka answer to a name that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?" MB

No more so or any less so than do Plantation Negros.

6) "Does the Plantation Cracka wear clothing and eat food that is alien to his historical and traditional culture?"

No.

Neither do Plantation Negros.

7) "Does the Plantation Cracka matriculate in educational institutions which extol the virtues of his history?"

No.

They matriculate in educational institutions which extol the virtues of a mythical "Western Civilization" and "Illuminism" disguised as Enlightenment.

8) "Is the Plantation Cracka constantly bombarded with negative images of himself by the corporate media?" MB

Yes. As a matter of fact.

Look at the condition of Plantation Crackas - it speaks for itself.

9) "Is the Plantation Cracka currently dealing with the residual effects of slavery, such as the psychodynamics of Black self-annihilation in service of white domination?" MB

Man, that's some Mike Fisher shit.

"Self"-annihilation is the least of the worries of black people in America.

Most Plantation Negroes will be lining up to be injected with a sterilizing concoction in the next few weeks - voluntarily.

MB. The notion that black people have some kind of "monopoly" on slavery and suffering is played out and counter-productive.

What happened to our people in this country is just a blink in time from a historical perspective.

It defines those who allow it define them.

You need to peep the DV.Net archives. Get yourself ramped up.

Michael Fisher said...

Makheru, you ain't gonna get to DV with rational arguments.

DV. Your argument about African slaves and white overseers is the same as that the Nazi SS guards are just as much victims as the concentration camp inmates they are victimizing. Even if that proposition were true, it ain't gonna make a damn difference to the concentration camp inmates.

Constructive Feedback said...

makheru bradley:

I was selecting your points that I disagreed with in order to respond to you. I agreed with the first bullet item and then I gave up.

1) I struggle to see how some people can articulate how ANOTHER MAN caused them to hate each other while so little time is shown by folks who believe this in detailing what THEY have done to reverse this damage. If they were to tell me that they have unplugged their televisions and gave them away for free to their ENEMIES so that they could be damaged this would be a good start.

2) WHERE did this "Historical Culture" that you speak of ORIGINATE FROM? I just watched the documentary "500 Nations" about the trails of the Native American. Many of their traditional cultural practices with regard to hunting STEMMED FROM their access to certain tools and transportation. Thus when MORE EFFICIENT tools and horses were introduced for their use they abandoned a portion of their old ways.

While I agreed that the White man's demand for hides caused them to "warehouse" animal parts for the first time, instead of only killing what they immediately needed to consume - to claim that they played no conscious part in the decision to accept the tools that made them more efficient and thus were incapable of knowingly doing so is Non-White White Supremacist.

CULTURE has some function of one's present circumstances.

3) FOOD - There is nothing stopping the African-American or anyone else from developing a new cuisine that replicates that which was consumed in the past.

4) HISTORY - I am more concerned that the average Negro today FAILS to make note of the fact that 200 years from now SOMEONE is going to look back upon what is HISTORY to them. That being the year 2009.

5) Is the Plantation Cracka currently dealing with the residual effects of slavery, such as the psychodynamics of Black self-annihilation in service of white domination?

A 6 year old little boy entering Kindergarten this year has FAR LESS "residual effects of slavery" imprinting upon him than he does the results that the adults:

* In his immediate family
* In his community
* Who will teach him in his school

have wraught upon his life and consciousness

Denmark Vesey said...

"DV. Your argument about African slaves and white overseers is the same as that the Nazi SS guards are just as much victims as the concentration camp inmates they are victimizing." Michael Fisher

Mike.

Think about what you are saying.

The population of Germany in WWII was 70,000,000 people.

How many of them do you think were "Nazi SS" guards?

700?

7,000?

Fuck it. 70,000?

Blaming the entire population of Germany AND their descendants for the actions of a fraction of their population is anti-intellectual.

What population of pre-Civil War America do you suppose owned slaves?

50%?

25%

5%?

Suggesting every modern day, obese, football watching, beer drinking, IN-DEBT, poorly educated, prescription drug addicted, GMO eating, Plantation Cracka is the heir of wealth created by slaves is ... well, Bra ... it's stupid.

Most Plantation Crackas are the children of poor lice infested immigrants who sailed to this country fleeing poverty and the vestiges of a thousand years of feudalism in Europe them damn selves.

Stop projecting power and wealth onto everyone who just happens to be white.

It's not a good look.

Unknown said...

Preach DV!

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

^The population of pre-WW2 Germany was 80 million, DV.

You were referring to "Plantation Crackas". Those words specifically refer to Slave Overseers who, as a matter of course, whipped slaves (thus the "crack" in Cracker). I said nothing about them being wealthy. I said they functioned as what they were, prison guards, that is concentration camp guards, just as the Nazi SS did.

If you are (mis)using the term "Plantation Cracka" for poor whites in general, then that's another thing. In that case I suggest you use the appropriate words such as "poor whites".

^"Blaming the entire population of Germany AND their descendants for the actions of a fraction of their population is anti-intellectual."

I haven't done that. Positing untruths and developing an argument based on these untruths is anti-intellectual at worst and sloppy thinking at best. Besides I'd be blaming myself, given that I am the grandson of a Nazi diplomat, that my mother, the daughter of said Nazi diplomat, introduced me to Hitler's foreign minister's (my grandfather's boss) granddaughter whom I dated and was considering marrying, and given that my uncle was a Nazi soldier and my granduncle one of the top Nazi scientists.

Ain't too many white Germans that got this type of unfortunate pedigree.

If I ain't blaming me, you can be sure as hell that I am not blaming any other descendant of German Nazis or the German people.

Besides, I'm less focused on racism/white supremacy of the past, but on the racism/white supremacy that functions today.

Denmark Vesey said...

Plantation Cracka:

crack⋅er  [krak-er]

4. (initial capital letter) Sometimes Disparaging and Offensive. a native or inhabitant of Georgia (used as a nickname).
5. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a poor white person living in some rural parts of the southeastern U.S.

Mike. For your edification.

The word "Cracker / Cracka" has nothing to do with the 'crack of a whip'.

It is a reference to the similarity in hue between a Saltine Cracker and Caucasian skin tone.

The term "Plantation Cracka" just as the term "Plantation Negro" is a reference to the hordes of dumbed down white American masses spiritually, physically and psychologically invested in a system that operates not in their interests.

The reality is no black American will ever encounter a white American who has ever hit a black person with a whip - and lived to talk about it.

Which is another reason your man Makheru's comments are so out of step with the times.

It also happens to be why your theory of a "Global System of WHITE Supremacy" collapses under even the most casual scrutiny.

"White" Plantation occupants are in the same boat as "Black" Plantation occupants.

The people firing torpedoes armed with death, disease and debt intend to kill both white and black alike.

Regarding your grandfather and uncle, they sound like men loyal to the country of their origin. I don't understand why you consider their parentage unfortunate.

Is a Nazi really any worse than a NeoCon, a Zionist or hell, a Democrat for that matter?

Mass murder and genocide takes place under many names. The "Allies" and the "Nazis" were simply different sides of the same Hegelian coin.

Thesis vs. Anti-thesis = The Synthesized fascist global dictatorship we have today.

Your focus on race and whiteness is counter-intuitive.

Both white and black people are the targets of insane homicidal ideologues busy playing God and intent on reducing the population of the world across the board.

Michael Fisher said...

DV...

"I don't understand why you consider their parentage unfortunate."

Who was talking about their parentage? I was talking about their politics.

"Regarding your grandfather and uncle, they sound like men loyal to the country of their origin."

To equate being a Nazi as loyalty to Germany is EXACTLY the reasoning the Nazis used to kick everybody else out of Germany and, failing that to confine them and/or kill them in concentration camps. This same reasoning which you just displayed also equates Nazism with Germaness. Something that you falsely accused me of doing just prior.

Your level of sloppy thinking is really getting out of hand.

Also, would you PLEASE finally pick up a book by Hegel and actually READ it so that you can stop making a fool out of yourself?

makheru bradley said...

Makheru, you ain't gonna get to DV with rational arguments.

Indeed Bro. Fisher, this is understood. I generated those questions anticipating the asinine responses which followed.

MB. The notion that black people have some kind of "monopoly" on slavery and suffering is played out and counter-productive.-- DV

Where was it stated that Afrikan Americans have some kind of monopoly on slavery and suffering?

What happened to our people in this country is just a blink in time from a historical perspective.—DV

I’m certain that I have a far greater understanding of that history, from antiquity to the present, than you do, as you consistently demonstrate.

You need to peep the DV.Net archives. Get yourself ramped up.—DV

Ramped up -- ROTFLMBAO! Oh I’m sure that there are some things in your archives which have some redeeming value. The post with the comments by Dr. Jablonski most definitely piqued my interest. However, your headline on this particular post is tragically delusional, an utter fantasy.

Suggesting every modern day, obese, football watching, beer drinking, IN-DEBT, poorly educated, prescription drug addicted, GMO eating, Plantation Cracka is the heir of wealth created by slaves is ... well, Bra ... it's stupid.—DV

This is why your analysis is fatally flawed. Where was it suggested that “every” modern day plantation cracka is the heir of wealth created by slaves? But even the poorest European American never experienced anything comparable to the Holocaust of Afrikan Enslavement, sometimes called The Maafa.

Most Plantation Crackas are the children of poor lice infested immigrants who sailed to this country fleeing poverty and the vestiges of a thousand years of feudalism in Europe them damn selves. – DV

Dayum, Mr. Vesey. How far into the abyss of mental slavery can you sink? These criminals participated in the genocide of the Native American and the enslavement of the Afrikan, and you’re suggesting a rationale for those crimes against humanity?

From a holistic perspective, Afrikan Americans have had the most unique experience in human history. Trying to compare that experience to any other group of people, particularly to any group of European Americans is utterly ridiculous.

Denmark Vesey said...

Bra Mak,

I can appreciate your Bone-N-The-Nose, Afro-Negro interpretation of black history.

But been there, done that Bra.

Listen to me carefully:

Not one of the 150 million Plantation Crackas alive today participated in the "in the genocide of the Native American and the enslavement of the Afrikan".

NOT 1.

Hell, 70% of their ancestors were still toiling in fields from Italy to Germany to Russia or dying in mud-filled trenches in manufactured European wars during these particular genocides.

You've become yet another victim in the sad game of Group Identity Politics and "My Suffering Was Greater Than Yours" dialectic.

My contention is fuck that bullshit.

Maybe the Negros you descended from were perpetual victims.

I come from a long line of beautiful empowered capable and rich black people with a history that extends beyond that shit crackas taught you in a few episodes of Roots.

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

^oh yeah? Let's put that to the test, DV.

DV, can you tell me the full name, place of birth, date of birth, date of death and occupation of any of your direct male ancestors who lived anywhere between 1590 A.D and 1610 A.D?

If you indeed can, please do so.

Denmark Vesey said...

Well Mike, to the best of our knowledge, on my father's side of the family the only male ancestor we can trace that far back would be Askia Ishaq of the Songhai empire. He ruled there in the late 1500's. Can't tell you exactly what date he was born but we do know he was born in what was then the capital city of Gao. Don't know exactly when he died either, but his 1,000 year old empire collapsed after the invasion of the Moroccan Sultan Ahmad I al-Mansur Saadi, who dispatched a 5,000-man force under the Spanish eunuch Judar Pasha. The force crossed the Sahara desert in October 1590. Though Ishaq assembled more than 40,000 warriors to meet the invaders, his army fled the enemy's gunpowder weapons at the Battle of Tondibi in March 1591. Judar soon seized and looted Gao as well as the trading centers of Timbuktu and Djenné, ensuring the Empire's destruction and my ancestor's demise.

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

Cool. Though quoting Wikipedia word for word isn't exactly confidence-building. Nonetheless, I'll take your word for it. Now please list your ancestors beginning with with Askia Ishaqh II and bring it down to your person. By the way, Songhay never was 1000 years old. Especially not by by 1590, the time of the reign of Askia Ishaq II. It lastet about 200 years in toto and was the successor empire to the empire of Mali.

makheru bradley said...

There's a major difference between actually knowing history and simply quoting history written by others, without knowing if the quotes are historically accurate.

Denmark Vesey said...

"There's a major difference between actually knowing history and simply quoting history written by others" Makheru Bradley


Uh ...

Mak.

What you "know" about history before you were born then?

Denmark Vesey said...

Mike ... you've jumped back on your Socratic unicycle.

I'm interested in your point. Please just state it.

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

DV...

"Mike ... you've jumped back on your Socratic unicycle.

I'm interested in your point. Please just state it."


Nothing Socratic. I'm just taking you by your word. You claim that you "come from a long line of beautiful empowered capable and rich black people with a history that extends beyond that shit crackas taught you in a few episodes of Roots". If that is so, then you ought to be able to list these illustrious black ancestors of yours. Is it possible to list one's ancestors this far back? Sure, in principle - that is, if they weren't enslaved and robbed of their identity. For example, on my father's side I can only go back to my grandmother's grandmother who was brought to the United States from Africa. On my mother's side I can list every ancestor going back to 1501 A.D. by name, occupation, birth and Death date, siblings (in most cases) etc. And they weren't even nobility. In fact, my family on my mother's side was mentioned in historical chronicles as being among those Germanics who wiped out Varus' Roman legions in the Teutoburg forest in 9 A.D. That's exactly 2000 years.

That's the difference between an enslaved family and one that is not enslaved. One lost it's identity, the other retained it. It makes a big difference.

So, given that you have this long line of ancestors who were rich, beautiful, empowered, and black in contrast to the rest us whose black ancestors were enslaved and poor, please list these ancestors of yours. It would be quite inspiring, by the way.

Denmark Vesey said...

Mike,

How far back do you think the 40+ year old white cat who details my car can "list" his family?

How far back do you think Roseanne Barr can "list" her family?

How far back do you think the white dude who comes to the crib twice a month with a truck full of Mexicans to landscape my yard ... can "list" his family back?

How far back, do you suppose, that white cat, Phillip Garrido, who kidnapped that little white girl and raped her for years, can "list" his family?

How far back can that Jewish DJ they found with a crack pipe in his mouth, " can list" his family MF?

Mike, how far back can any of the 3.5 million white Americans living in trailers ... "list" their families?

Were any of those white people "enslaved"?

Mike I believe you make a mistake when you assume ... whiteness ... has ANYTHING to do with empowerment.

Congrats on your mom's side of the family by the way. That's a fascinating story.

Your mom wasn't an immigrant.

Everyone is America is an immigrant.

Accept for a handful of Amer-Asian Indians and Black Moors.

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

Very nice, DV. I didn't ask you about all that, though. I asked YOU about YOUR claim wherein you stated that "I come from a long line of beautiful empowered capable and rich black people with a history that extends beyond that shit crackas taught you in a few episodes of Roots."

Thus, please list this illustrious long line of beautiful, empowered, capable, and rich black people that differentiates you in such extraordinary fashion from those of us whose ancestors were mere slaves who as you said (and I paraphrase) didn't do anything to free themselves and hung out willingly on the ex-master's plantations after the formal end of slavery instead of venturing forth and making something of themselves as your illustrious ancestors did.

So, what up, DV? Could it all have possibly been a lie and you descend from slaves just as most of us here?

Michael Fisher said...

^Congrats on your mom's side of the family by the way. That's a fascinating story.

And what exactly is fascinating about that family ? All I told you is that I can list them. What truly is fascinating is how my ex-slave great grandfather came out of slavery and amassed a 400 acre farm with tenants and all in the deepest of South Carolina, lost it to a bunch of thieving white folks, and ended up as a janitor in Harlem.

Denmark Vesey said...

Nah. Mike.

You didn't ask me.

But I told you.

Consider it a short cut to the obvious.

Regarding my family.

Evidence of their illustrious nature abounds in the twinkling eyes of my children, reverberates in my swag and stands up and salutes in my jawline.

What Plantation Negros have a hard time appreciating is that "Massa" don't know what the fuck happened 500 years ago any more than does Flava Flav.

That's why Hip Hop is so important. It teaches Plantation Negros the power of creating your own reality.

makheru bradley said...

What you "know" about history before you were born then? – DV

What I know is the result of extensive and vigorous studies of the subject; plus synthesizing information from various sources that cover the complete spectrum of ideologies and philosophies, and the critical cross-referencing of information.

Anyone without baseline knowledge of a subject would be wise to cross-reference the material they are using to make their points, thereby avoiding the errors of Eurocentric-influence emotionalism found in statements such as this: “his 1,000 year old empire collapsed after the invasion of the Moroccan Sultan…”

Michael Fisher said...

DV...

"Consider it a short cut to the obvious."

Yeah, a shortcut to obvious bullshit. Your claim to ancestral superiority in order to put down other black folks is identical behavior to thus.

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Mr. Browne was a bad muthaphucka. Thanks for that one, Fish. I never did see that flick.

Denmark Vesey said...

You kinda lost me Mike.

I don't claim ancestral superiority to "put down uva bwak fowk".

I claim ancestral superiority to separate me from handkerchief head Negros claiming white people are superior.

Hell. Peasant ass white boys can claim to be descended from Charlemagne to Constantine and you haters don't bat an eyelash.

Let a brother claim to even know who his grandfather is and the eyes start rolling like Magic 8 Balls.

Let a brother celebrate his own heritage and you muhfuggas want to play genealogical Sherlock Holmes.

Fact is ... Michael Fisher ... Plantation Crackas can't trace their heritage back to the 16th Gotdamn century any more than can anyone else.

Despite your fantasies about white entitlement and power.

Michael Fisher said...
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Michael Fisher said...

I'm not talking about "Plantation Crackers", I'm talking about YOU. YOU made a claim that you can't back up. And you posited "Maybe the Negros you descended from were perpetual victims." while you claim to "come from a long line of beautiful empowered capable and rich black people with a history that extends beyond that shit crackas taught you in a few episodes of Roots."

So where is that long line of empowered rich black people that you are descended from in contrast to us, descendants of enslaved Africans? You talked the talk, now walk the walk.

Denmark Vesey said...

"So where is that long line of empowered rich black people that you are descended from in contrast to us, descendants of enslaved Africans? You talked the talk, now walk the walk." MF


Mike. It's in my face.

Michael Fisher said...

DV...

"It's in my face."

Yeah, you need to stop sitting on it.