Submariner said...
Peruse the pages of any major hip hop publication. You'll not quickly find any description of heterosexuality that includes marriage. From his perch on the golf course or the veranda of his island estate, DV uncritically imbibes hip hop's ambrosia of rugged individuality and relentlessly egocentric and dopamine infused passion. Indeed, he has said his rap icons don't embrace social responsibility. That is group think, something for plantation Negroes. Yet he proclaims Barack Obama, a community organizer (i.e. plantation overseer), God's son. He can't have it both ways. Or maybe he can, but that's dishonest.My view of hip hop is that of a physician aboard an 18th Century slave ship. The stockholders in the Royal Africa Company would discuss the benefits of delivering natives from a savage land but the ship's doctor lived with smell of putrid flesh.
Young black people today are the fastest growing cohort of HIV carriers. When you take care of a young HIV infected man whose ass has decompensated down to the white meat overlying his tailbone, you get an unfiltered sense of hip hop's role as a "bastion of heterosexuality." When is the last time you heard a popular rap song advocating abstinence or marriage? Name a video that features a storyline of young brother being sodomized while in jail and testing positive for HIV six months later. Is there a popular R & B single about a young woman contracting HIV and passing it along to her newborn?No, ladies and gentlemen, sexuality in hip hop is a caricature. The overwhelming majority of the purveyors of hip hop culture, Jay Z included, are today's version of the tribal middlemen who facilitated the enslavement of their fellows in return for guns and European finery.
Denmark Vesey said ...
So, let me get this straight Sub, "Hip Hop" is responsible for the propensity of homosexuality and HIV in the black community?Damn ... that's a stretch.
Obviously you are confusing the urban art of rhythmical composition with anti-family secularism and the gender blurring social engineering efforts of the radical left that replaced the black empowerment movement with "Gay Liberation".
Nah, my friend. It aint Word Up magazine or Rap City responsible for the dysfunction that ravages our young people. Indoctrinated and emasculated refugees of the Civil Rights Movement who allowed the black father to be replaced by the secular state, are culpable in this social catastrophe.
Today our best and brightest toil away attending the leaking assholes of victims of a homosexual disease. Yet they lack the courage to educate young people about the consequences of homosexual sex.
Instead they sheepishly follow the mandate of the gay lobby and pretend HIV is an equal opportunity infector. Or they "blame Hip Hop" by pretending the explosion of HIV is a consequence of young innocent boys raped in jail by saggy pants thugs spittin' rhymes with razors under their tongue.
While Hip Hop remains one the last bastions of free speech, a place where a square is called a square, a circle a circle and a homo a a homo, our Ivy League Negros (in exchange for being annointed "socially responsible") parrot the nonsense that we must all practice "safe sex" and teach it to children in schools. Yet, seventy five per cent of AIDS fatalities are gay. The rest get it from infected needles or blood transfusions. (The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS: How a Tragedy Has Been Distorted by the Media and Partisan Politics )
Sub, sexuality EVERYWHERE is caricature. Hip Hop is a mating ritual. A survival strategy. Tribal dance with a microphone. Like all good art, it reflects more than it exhorts. Perfect? No. Yet it still echoes many fundamental truths you products of the system dare not even think.
Barack Obama Is Hip Hop. Put a mic in his hand and watch him move the crowd."Yes We Can" is call and response baby.
Remember where you heard it first.
Man, cats don't know what it's gonna be
Fuckin with a nigga like me, D-to-the-M-to-the-X
Last I heard, y'all niggaz was havin sex, with the SAME sex
I show no love, to homo thugs
Empty out, reloaded and throw more slugs
How you gonna explain fuckin a man?
Even if we squashed the beef, I ain't touchin ya hand
I don't buck with chumps, for those to been to jail
That's the cat with the Kool-Aid on his lips and pumps
I don't fuck with niggaz that think they broads
Only know how to be ONE WAY, that's the dog
I know how to get down, know how to BITE
Bark very little, but I know HOW TO FIGHT
I know how to chase a cat up in the tree
MAN, I GIVE Y'ALL NIGGAZ THE B'INESS FOR FUCKIN WIT ME
. -DMX
Fuckin with a nigga like me, D-to-the-M-to-the-X
Last I heard, y'all niggaz was havin sex, with the SAME sex
I show no love, to homo thugs
Empty out, reloaded and throw more slugs
How you gonna explain fuckin a man?
Even if we squashed the beef, I ain't touchin ya hand
I don't buck with chumps, for those to been to jail
That's the cat with the Kool-Aid on his lips and pumps
I don't fuck with niggaz that think they broads
Only know how to be ONE WAY, that's the dog
I know how to get down, know how to BITE
Bark very little, but I know HOW TO FIGHT
I know how to chase a cat up in the tree
MAN, I GIVE Y'ALL NIGGAZ THE B'INESS FOR FUCKIN WIT ME
. -DMX
26 comments:
So, let me get this straight Sub, "Hip Hop" is responsible for the propensity of homosexuality and HIV in the black community?
No, and only the most seriously contorted logic could interpret my response in that fashion.
You see, Denmark, your style lends itself to hyperbole and overreactions between superegoistic moralizing and id inspired vanity. Life and people aren't discrete categories that can be separated into homo or straight. Rap and sports icons routinely get their bodies pierced and tattooed, hair braided, eyebrows tweezed and shaved, and nails manicured. Does a rapper and several male comrades engaging in group sex with a single female testify to gay liberation? Does a stylist applying makeup to Jay Z's face before a photo shoot or TV appearance make him suspect?
A while back the president of Iran told a group of Columbia students that there were no gays in his country. People laughed, but he was right. Like race, sexual activity or preference as the defining feature of a human being is a Western construct that arrived late in history. Designations like gay and straight aren't assigned by neutral application of objective criteria. It's very much a product of when and where you are born.
Is a young adolescent experimenting with sex gay? Does a man who enjoys anal sex with a woman or having a female on top gay? Whatever your answer to these questions they are subjective and prone to disagreement.
You called Hip Hop a bastion of heterosexuality. Some people feel that way about the Catholic church. I said when you peer beneath the surface that 'heterosexuality' is a lot more variegated than what you and others acknowledge. I also said there are deadly consequences of heterosexual behavior among young blacks that go unmentioned but are very real. A flat earth advocate who says that heterosexual transmission of HIV is overrated leaves me unmoved. India and Africa certainly may have a cohort of down low brothers who exacerbate the problem, but Michael Fumento belongs to the class of manipulable pseudointellectuals with a hidden agenda. It's very disheartening to see a remarkable figure like yourself include a weakling like that in your intellectual architecture.
Last year I saw a very pretty, sexually active sixteen year old girl who was born with HIV. If I was in high school I would have stepped to her and who knows? Maybe I'd be the next dude laid up in a nursing home with bed sores. I'm not blaming hip hop for the prevalence of sexually transmitted infections. I am saying that the artists function as a conduit for corporate predation in much the same way that way African compradors cooperated and profited from trafficking in slaves. They should know better.
If the slave is the most radically individual commodity ever produced, then your rap icon is its apogee.
And by the way, DMX is an additional example of such a commodity. DMX, according to a recent post by Field Negro, wasn't even aware of Barack's thunderous presence on the national scene. It doesn't get more willfully ignorant and utterly irrelevant than that. I'm no lawyer but I think corroborating evidence needs to meet a greater threshold than what you've presented so far.
Absolutely beautiful response Sub. Gotta give it to you.
But let's be honest, your association of Hip Hop and exploding HIV rates was not completely free of indictment.
Just as every doctor is not representative of medicine, every rapper is not representative of Hip Hop.
For every hip hop artist participant in irresponsible, homoerotic group sex, I am sure there is a black physician, black attorney or black banker who has done the same or much worse.
"When is the last time you heard a popular rap song advocating abstinence or marriage?" Submariner
When is the last time you heard a black doctor advocating marriage?
When is the last time you heard a black physician cautioning young people about the dangers of homosexual sex or the gay lifestyle?
Noooooooooo ... wouldn't dare, would they? Be ass out of a job.
Now Brother Sub - I read your link regarding Michael Fumento. So what?
It doesn't disparage the widely held belief that the political characterization of HIV as other than a gay disease AND THE FAILURE OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY TO RESPOND TO IT AS A GAY DISEASE is the primary reason "young black people are the fastest growing cohorts of HIV carriers".
No, my friend, you are not hopelessly treating bed sores of 20 year old black men in nursing homes because of Biggie Smalls or Vibe magazine.
I suggest you first point your finger at the politically powerful Gay Lobby and secondly at Oh So Educated black professionals and people like you and me, who abdicated our responsibility to inform "young black people" about the root cause of HIV infection.
Wouldn't your marvelous communicative talents and impressive credentials be put to better use on Oprah's couch or 106 & Park, warning young people about the inherent dangers of anal sex, than treating the anuses of infected men that have "decomposed to the white meat"?
I mean ... you know. Let's not blame Hip Hop for not doing something we could do.
DV
"When is the last time you heard a popular rap song advocating abstinence or marriage?" Submariner
When is the last time you heard a black doctor advocating marriage?"
Name a celebrity black doctor who is on BET,MTV,ITunes,Clear Channel and on Concert tour 24/7 to compare apples to apples. BTW my black doctor advocates abtinence in our mentoring program once a month during his visits. Secondly, black folk don't own HipHop/Rap they lease it from the Jews. Third the Gay lobby has no more influence over public policy than the Latino lobby or NAACP either way it's off the topic off HipHop's connection with pathology.
But let's be honest, your association of Hip Hop and exploding HIV rates was not completely free of indictment.
Actually, it was. I'm not a cultural conservative who says that if black people name their sons Tim and daughters Mary and listen to classical music or read bedtime stories that they'll overcome structural inequities. I don't blame music for risky sexual behavior and its consequences.
I certainly don't pass judgment on disease and how it is acquired. I just don't see disease as God's wrath. If it is or that's his way of getting us to change our ways then fuck him and all his angels.
What difference does it make if HIV originally was limited to gays? It's a fact of current heterosexual life and it's dangerous to maintain an illusion that rigorous adherence to mainstream heterosexual practice or Christian values is a deterrent to becoming infected.
My problem is a particular rap icon and hip hop in general being bestowed with values that they clearly don't publicly advocate. If you can discern how self-serving the pharmaceutical industry is, then how come you're blind to it in Hip Hop?
Oh, and another thing. The caption 'Liberal Social Engineers' should be attached to a photo depicting Jay Z, Puffy, Damon Dash, and other record executives at a board meeting. But I guess that in your wildest imagination they couldn't possibly be agents of the hated Illuminati.
rotflmbao......,
Sub ...
10% of Negros even recognize the word "Illluminati".
90% of those heard the term in Hip Hop.
Establishment Negros only know the concept is off limits to them ... so they stay in their place.
The factories of conformity and indoctrination we call "schools" produce establishment wannabes like Casper.
Give me Jay-Z. You keep Harold Ford Jr.
DV
The factories of conformity and indoctrination we call "schools" produce establishment wannabes like Casper.
Once again when someone doesn't agree with you... You must go there... I thought Obama taught you better. Then you wonder why some see your rhetoric as hypocrisy at it's best!
DV Tell us what's more ESTABLISHMENT than Jimmy Iovine, Ted Field, and Tom Whalley's Jewish founded Interscope Records which is owned by Universal Music Group which is owned by the international conglom. Vivendi.????????? Then maybe you can get back to truly defending your position on the topic without the Clinton tactics.
Jay Z is not an "Establishment Negro" or wannabe? Just ask him what his views are on federal enforcement of copyright laws and first amendment protection of free speech. I bet everything that he is in perfect alignment with Harold Ford Jr. and your dreaded secular hegemon called the ACLU.
Remember how this began. You called Hip Hop a bastion of heterosexuality and went on to describe Jay Z and Beyonce's wedding. I just pointed out the absurdity of the linkage. You persist in trying to cross a Grand Canyon size chasm but end up at the bottom of a crevice like Evel Knievel.
At best mainstream Hip Hop is a benign outlet for id release. We all need that. Sex would quickly lose its value if it was only straightforward copulation in missionary position with no foreplay and strictly for procreation.
But you are confusing your vicarious expression of libertine impulses and inestimable material wealth with substantive political commentary on family and healthy interpersonal relationships.
Craig, you just instigatin'. :)
Oh BTW DV .. Def Jam Records Jay-Z recent former boss is also owned by Universal Music Group/ ESTABLISHMENT
DV I guess your Senator prophet is also an establishment wannabe???
Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found himself criticized Monday by one of rap and hip-hop's leading producers, Def Jam Records co-founder Russell Simmons, who challenged the presidential candidate to stop criticizing rappers' lyrics and start working to improve the urban-American world that inspires them.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3045077&page=1
"Wouldn't your marvelous communicative talents and impressive credentials be put to better use on Oprah's couch or 106 & Park, warning young people about the inherent dangers of anal sex, than treating the anuses of infected men that have "decomposed to the white meat"?"
First of all, that's funny as hell.
Now, I haven't been here long, and I don't even know most of you, but all of the polysyllabic words and side talk only mask the basic facts. I'm all about the basic facts.
Young Blacks are being infected with HIV because young Black males are out of control. They are participating in at risk behavior, whether drug use or gay sex, and then spreading it to young Black women.
Just as young Black males don't think about the negative ramifications of dropping out of high school, selling drugs, hitting another human being in the head with a bat (which just happened here in Chicago), or shooting someone, they don't see, or care about the ramifications of their sexual irresponsibilities.
I dare anyone here to give me one instance of a man catching HIV from a woman. Just one. Not Magic, not Eazy E, not Rock Hudson, and it won't be Jaheim.
I think that hip hop isn't responsible for the epidemic. I think hip hop is responsible for the "fuck it" attitude. Not totally responsible, but hip hop has made that attitude okay.
If young Black males would take parenting seriously, things for our people would turn around almost on a dime. If fathers took the time to teach respect to their sons, then the sons would in turn act respectfully to the rest of the world.
There are plenty of gay people in Iran. It's not an American way of thinking. That's ridiculous. Just like there are whores in Iran and Iraq that wear burkas. I don't care what their President says.
Live your life in any way that you want. Straight, gay, asexual, I could give a shit. But respect the rest of the world enough to not push your shit on everyone else.
Oh yeah, fuck Russell Simmons.
Oh yeah again, get that pic with that dude off the site. I don't need to see no nukkas pubes or balls!
Amen! richie... Only time I see sex,porn and gay photos is on this blog... Hmmm???
For you folks still caught up with chicken and egg of gay vs. straight routes of HIV transmission here is some science. Nevertheless, I still find this a deadly distraction because it gives the false impression, as demonstrated above, that because female to male transmission rates are relatively low, 'real' men have nothing to fear. By the way, do any sisters out there care to way in? As usual, the men are crowding out the ladies, but the greatest contribution is most likely to come from them.
wah dah tah....,
"Amen! richie... Only time I see sex,porn and gay photos is on this blog... Hmmm???" Casper
Ahhhh ... quit frontin' Casper.
You know you got 36 x 24 inch posters of little black homos all over your crib and a Tevin Campbell screen saver.
Richie, you funny as hell.
Yeah man. They say a picture speaks a thousand words. So when engaged in banter with people who insist on trafficking in euphemisms like "gay" to describe a psychiatric illness like homosexual sex I often juxtapose their rhetoric with an image, that speaks for itself.
Homeboy aint "gay". Homeboy is sick.
Which brings me to a broader point. My increasingly valued friend Submariner mistakes my championing of Hip Hop and it's iconography as the perfect embodiment of heterosexuality.
Not exactly.
In order to value anything, one must compare it to its alternative.
Hip Hop, with all of it's flaws, is far more heterosexual than the alternative to Hip Hop.
Neither Establishment Negros, Plantation Negros, Corporate Negros, R&B Negros, Post Civil Rights Negros, Academic Negros, Gospel Negros, Tavis Smiley Negros nor Conformist Negros are exactly bursting at the seems in heterosexual bliss.
By heterosexual I don't mean "macho". I mean true to nature. Acknowledgment of the obvious. I mean yin / yang. Thesis / anti-thesis. Day / Night. Penis / Vagina.
My dear friend Submariner inserted the issue of 'young black people getting HIV', as if Hip Hop is somehow culpable.
I countered that the failure of the alternative to Hip Hop (see above) is more culpable because of it's capitulation to the propaganda of the Secular Social Engineers and its wholesale failure to define the HIV crisis in realistic effective terms.
Instead, establishment Negros simply towed the rhetorical line and parroted the propaganda of the Gay Lobby by pretending HIV is a general social disease that can be prevented with "safe sex".
Instead of telling the truth that HIV can be avoided by abstaining from homosexual sex.
When we didn't want kids to get lung cancer, we taught them not to smoke.
We didn't teach them "safe smoking" or pass out filters.
If we were serious about black kids not getting AIDS we would teach them not to fuck each other in the ass, not teach "safe ass fucking" or give them condoms.
Now, where are we more likely to hear that message, on a Young Buck freestyle or a Tavis Smiley "summit"?
DV
DV
So many flaws in your analysis:
#1 HIV via homo sex is not the only method to become infected. Hetero sex is in the mix as well. And if Snoop is busting nuts in them hoes what does that suggest?
#2 Gansta living promoted by your idols in reality will send emulators to prison as witness by your continuous statistics posted. And what happens to prisoners... ahhh? a dick up the ass... That's right they become some homeboy named Leroy's bitch.
#3 When your thugs get out ... they are looking at your ass too cuz now it's second nature.
#4 Smoking cigs will give one cancer as well as second hand smoke. Not including the fucked up air quality.. Thus life is a little more complex then what you make it.
#5 There are so many down low fags & bisexuals in the music business (rap&hiphop)its not even funny. They are just like those congressmen. Talk shit about being pitchers when they are really catching it!
Casper,
You've been coming to DenmarkVesey for a year now. And you still haven't learned anything.
I told you before Silly, this is chess not checkers.
You comparin' apples to Sushi.
Now either step up your game or let grown folks talk.
Your entire premise that Hip Hop "promotes gangster living" is absurd and belies your age. You either old or dumb.
That shit is so simple minded and linear, I can't even muster a response.
Federal drug laws, a predatory "judicial" system, for-profit prisons, schools that intentionally miseducate, a 40 year war on families, the assassination of the black father, corporate globalism that destroyed the job base, THE DUMB ASS CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT - which sought "integration" instead of real empowerment and the gender blurring feminizing efforts of left wing social engineers HAD A LITTLE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE "GANGSTER LIFESTYLE"that you lay at the feet of Tupac, Nas, Big and Fiddy.
Hip Hop, like all art, chronicles the ill effects of the madness - it is not a "cause" of it. Hip Hop is the language of those who say "Fuck The Plantation".
Your Chicken George ass argument is that "the Plantation is Fine, if dem niggas jus Play by da Rules"
Now go 'head now Casper. I'm tired of teaching you the same shit every 3 weeks.
DV
Now go 'head now Casper. I'm tired of teaching you the same shit every 3 weeks.
Where is the substance DV. You never address the facts. Who owns/run/greenlights HipHop videos and lyrics? you? DMX?. Next HipHip is not art. Music is. HipHop is a lifestyle (without calling you names like your still in highschool). Now if you're slow and can not even grasp those facts then no wonder your analysis is so wrong. It really appears that you have issues with any black leader who stood up for your right to live in Belair (fresh Prince) today while they risked their lives back in the day. You better recognize... Foool!
DV
Your entire premise that Hip Hop "promotes gangster living" is absurd and belies your age. You either old or dumb.
BTW... why do they call "gangsta" rap "gangsta"???????? GTFOOH! you still will say anything in the name of groupie rap/hiphop love. Once again... Your man love Obama has the same issues... Where is your outrage for his opinion... Or did you swallow it?! in the name of Love!
When the subject of Barack Obama came up, DMX gave a questionable response to the possibility of a black president. “What the fuck is a Barack? Barack Obama. Where he from, Africa?... Wow, Barack! The nigga’s name is Barack. Barack? Nigga named Barack Obama. What the fuck, man? Is he serious? That ain’t his fuckin’ name. I'ma tell this nigga when I see him, ‘Stop that bullshit. Stop that bullshit.’ [Laughs] That ain’t your fuckin’ name. Your mama ain’t name you no damn Barack.”
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.6560/title.dmx-talks-new-album-clowns-barack-obama
I'm only about halfway through reading this, and this isn't exactly relevant but in Richie's post he said that Magic didn't get HIV from a woman??? Where did he get it???
This is all kind of funny to me because in my opinion hip hop has gotten and continues to get increasingly gay. I think it promotes homosexuality more than anything else. I know that's a broad generality as there are so many artists but when you look at the artists as a whole, I see lots of homothug love going on and not a whole lot of love of women or commitment to women. The new thing seems to be encouraging women to not only take care of themselves but to take care of men as well... sounds like some kind of masculinity is lacking to me.
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