Monday, December 03, 2007

Martin Luther King Jr. Not Hitler. Ahmadinejad Rocks Columbia Speech

"If you can question God, why can't we question The Holocaust"?

Ahmadinejad challenges radical secularism. Which explains why they are trying to convince us he is Hitler.

In his most pointed arguments yet, Mr. Ahmadinejad said that science and research had been used in the West as tools of oppression.

“They even violate individual and social freedoms in their own nations under that pretext,” he said. “They do not respect the privacy of their own people. They tap telephone calls … They create an insecure psychological atmosphere, in order to justify their war-mongering acts in different parts of the world.”

He added: “By using precise scientific methods and planning, they begin their onslaught on the domestic cultures of nations, which are the result of thousands of years of interaction, creativity and artistic activity. They try to eliminate these cultures in order to strip people of their identity.”

He said that Western science was often used to instill “intimidation” and values of “mere consumption” and “submission to oppressive powers.

A woman, left, defends the right of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak at Columbia University

Worth A Second Look


skip sievert said...

For another crooked politician, he does make some very real points.
He is dead on with some of those comments.

How ever,
"Ahmadinejad challenges radical secularism. Which explains why they are trying to convince us he is Hitler."

Your rather boorish connection to this rather boorish theme of yours, about secularism, which I do not think you actually understand the dynamic of, is boorish.

This guy is ultimately an interesting con man that is a believer in non existent material that was derived to control people like you who believe in those things.
Those things you believe in RELIGION --- is a construct to control by humiliating lies, the social template for the power people.
So you are soldiering here for whipping people with belief systems, designed and in the tradition of people control.

Denmark Vesey said...

Yes yes yes Skip. Of course.

"Technocracy" is not a belief system. The Holocaust is not a belief system. Secularism is benign.

Whatever you say.

All that crazy shit about "energy credits" and "free clothing" is as much a religion as is The Jehova's Witness.

Ahmadinejad is right. Western science has stripped people of their identity.

Telling people who have God in their lives, that God is a lie, is like telling fat people food is a lie.

Skip, just because your spirit has atrophied doesn't mean mine has.

Speak for yourself. Speak for your own cold dark hallow experience, and stop projecting your fears onto others. Ultimately it makes Technocracy look weak.

skip sievert said...

Technocracy is way cool, and as mentioned, it is energy certificates, and not credits.
Credit is a money term, and as surely as q follows p Technocracy does not use credit or debit.
Those Price System terms are for controlling the great unwashed mass of believers.
Religion as I have stated before is a construct to capture with belief system nonsense, the gullible, and control them with abstract concepts.

pd said...

Are you condoning mahmoud?

I was pissed that this dude wanted to visit ground zero to pay "his respects." That's mockery at it's highest. Fuck him.

Denmark Vesey said...

Condoning Mahmoud?

Man, I'm standing up applauding, stomping my feet and lighting a candle.

Why would you be "pissed" at a man who wanted to pay his respects to the 3 thousand who died on 9-11 and the hundreds of thousands who have died since, because of 9-11?

Paul, the people who have convinced you this man is Hitler are the same people who told us Iraq had WMD's.

I dare you to actually LISTEN to him and to arrive at your own conclusions.

The man is a brave humanitarian and one of the few men on the planet courageous enough to stand up to the warmongers who hijacked America's Foreign Policy.

I'm surprised P. I wouldn't have thought you were among those who fell for the oaky doke.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

From Juan Cole -

The media has focused on debating whether he should be allowed to speak at Columbia University on Monday, or whether his request to visit Ground Zero, the site of the Sept. 11 attack in lower Manhattan, should have been honored. His request was rejected, even though Iran expressed sympathy with the United States in the aftermath of those attacks and Iranians held candlelight vigils for the victims. Iran felt that it and other Shiite populations had also suffered at the hands of al-Qaida, and that there might now be an opportunity for a new opening to the United States.

Devil's Advocate said...

So a man who executes homosexuals, stones children, kills Americans, and pledges to destroy Israel, is equivalent to Martin Luther King, Jr?

Moreover, you argue that not only should Iran's dictator be allowed on campus, but he should not be confronted with counter speech in opposition to his murderous regime. You are not about free speech, you are about the promotion of propaganda.

I was glad you posted on my site, as your abject insanity is a perfect example of how brainwashed liberals have become.

Denmark Vesey said...

A man who fights against war is equivalent to Martin Luther King Jr.

A man who is slandered by his enemies is equivalent to Martin Luther King Jr.

A man who acknowledges God is equivalent to Martin Luther King Jr.

The regime that lied to the world about WMD's is the murderous regime.

4,000 dead American soldiers later and 600,000 dead Iraqi people later, makes it clear that the regime that engineered an invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 911 is murderous.

Remember that it is you warmongering foreign lobbyists who are in fact the liberals.

True conservatives don't send their sons to die in wars more in the interest of Israel than in the interest of the United States.

Yes, I posted on your site, to remind you lying bastards that you haven't fooled all Americans.

pd said...

I read the transcript of his speech. He sounds like the typical politician (full of shit) who won't give a straight answer to a straight question. Considering history, I understand this man's disdain of America which manifest itself in all the anti-America rhetoric that comes out his mouth. I have no doubt that he considers (for good reason) America to be his enemy. Knowing that, I think it would be mockery for him to visit the place where defenseless Americans died in the 9/11 attack.

I also found it ironic for him to criticize America ("They even violate individual and social freedoms") while he bans student publications, satellite television, filters the internet and forbids anything written criticizing the gov't.

Typical politician full of shit propaganda.

jasai said...

I agree PD, they are all in the same gang until they aren't anymore. he happens to still be.

he's just brighter than the average joe.

your enemy's ememy is not necessarily your friend.

Denmark Vesey said...

Jasai and Pd,

Obviously neither of you listened to the man speak.

Calling Ahmadinejad "just another politician" is like calling Martin Luther King Jr., just another preacher.

The over-the-top deomoninization of the man, ("Hitler", "Evil", "Madman") should be evidence enough to cause skepticism of the main stream message.

They are desperate for you not to listen to him. Sadly it seems to be working.

The same people who told you Saddam had WMD's tell you Ahmadinejad is Hitler with nuclear weapons.

Do you believe them?

Not quite.

They didn't expect you to. They just want to temper what you think of Ahmadinejad.

Evidently it works.

jasai said...


you are as wrong as two left shoes in assuming I neither read or saw his speech (both of which I did)

he is bright, brighter than our current president. and he is correct on many fronts in his accusations as they relate to our current regime.

but to buy into him wholesale because he is "tellin' the truth" about a handful of things that are obviously wrong with the US and it's policy, is about as wrong-headed as allowing the bush man to invade the Hussein man's house because he eats the wings of his birds…

well so does the other cat.

Healthy skepticism and deep listening are probably in order as opposed to wholesale bandwagon jumping and furious circus clapping.

And you thought black folks we over zealous about the Jena 6…..

Are you wearing your “Ahmadinejad for Class President” T-shirt?

I happen to think his message about the inquiry into the holocaust is wholly relevant. But I also happen to know that denying that Iran has homosexuals or that it has a poor record of abuse against women is two hot steps in the wrong direction.

He wants the same thing these shits over here want. Power.

sometimes i think if being wrong is wrong, you don't wanna be right.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

But I also happen to know that denying that Iran has homosexuals or that it has a poor record of abuse against women is two hot steps in the wrong direction.

The wrong direction to where?

jasai said...

telling lies when the truth will do.

isn't that his accusation as it realtes to Isreal?

pd said...

What does any of that have to do with the hypocrisy of his statement, "They [US] even violate individual and social freedoms"

Don't come over here talking about individual freedoms when Iranian woman don't have the "freedom" to watch men play sports in stadiums.

Don't come over here talking about individual freedom when police in Iran punish woman for "improper hijabs"

pd said...

Don't come over here talking about individual freedom when every source of media in Iran is censored.

Give me a break!

Accra said...

Bush and his cronies go all over the world trying to impose their so called democracy and freedom on other countries.... any country that does not tow the line is deemed an enemy and then, the propoganda machine goes into full effect.

Well, we all know that democracy is not just about being able to vote, or even women watching men in a stadium... the point is both societies have problems so why does the US always try to assume the higher moral authority?

Women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia
can they? Homosexuals are not looked upon favourably in any of those parts.... yet they are still friends of the US. And didn't most of the 9/11 suicide guys come from Saudi? Go figure!?
The double standards and hypocrisy are too much!

Denmark Vesey said...

"Don't come over here talking about individual freedoms when Iranian woman don't have the "freedom" to watch men play sports in stadiums."

Who told you that Paul?

There are women in Parliament in Iran. There are women doctors in Iran. There are Iranian women who would argue they are far more free than American women burdened with debt, poor child care and anti-depressant drugs.

Ahmadinejad challenges the Arrogantly Ignorant assumption of Americans that we DEFINE "personal freedom". We are among the Least Free people on the planet.

Iranians may not think that 500,000 American women who slide up and down poles while having $20 bills stuffed in their crotches have "personal freedom".


We are a nation of dumb assess who just witnessed the votes of black Americans thrown in dumpsters - talking


Who In The Fuck Wants To Be In Iraq?

We aint free.

Wake The Fuck Up.

pd said...

I'm not saying we define personal freedom. But for you to compare the personal freedoms of American woman to Iranian woman and go a step further and argue that "There are Iranian women who would argue they are far more free than American women" is a joke.

Do you think an Iranian woman could publish an online blog like this with no consequence from the gov't?

jasai said...

this is really your cause de jour huh? why not pack up and take the fam to the middle of the east?

be a free as bad advice.

Denmark Vesey said...

"Do you think an Iranian woman could publish an online blog like this with no consequence from the gov't?" Paul


Here is one right here:


Iran has twice the overall voting participation percentage than does the United States. Three times more women vote in Iran than vote in the United States.

70% of the American people are against the war and we will still spend $1 Billion fighting it just today.

Freedom is more than being able to blog, to strip, to be gay and to consume.

jasai said...

but it does in fact INCLUDE those things as well.

notwithstanding that according to some, those might not be skillful ways to live/be.

Denmark Vesey said...

"this is really your cause de jour huh? "


You call it whatever you want. I think it's one of the most important issues in the world today.

If you have something Jasai thinks is more important - I'm all ears.

However, I will tell you part of the reason I pursue this subject so enthusiastically is because I resent the quiet implication that black people are not supposed to be passionate about foreign policy and international affairs.

Mention 6 Negros in Jena and black folks will wear black and catch buses on the first thing smoking to march.

Mention Sudan - "indifference". "disinterest"

Mention YET ANOTHER war that we are being ushered into that will have a far greater impact on the lives of black people than some damn nooses in Louisiana, and you gotta get past poked lips, sucked teeth and rolled eyes.

Come on Jasai, what's the real root of the cynicism?

jasai said...

I resent the quiet implication that black people are not supposed to be passionate about foreign policy and international affairs.


The implication might be so quiet in fact that no one hears it but you. Because I don’t.

Who is implying this? Are you feeling like people are discounting your ability to discuss/dissect international politics on THIS HERE BLOG? Au contraire Mon Frere. We are discussing this WITH you.

So it seems your issue might be more that our perspective does not line in exactly the way you might like. But make no mistake; nobody is battling you FOR discussing international politics, simply dissenting with your particular perspective on this particular issue.

jasai said...

no cynicism. just a kind of confused awe.

RJEsq said...

well said jasai. I miss you.

ed said...

Same cats trying to ish on Ahmadinejad have no comment when it comes to Pakistan ruled by a dictators and organized thugs that carry out executions based on their "personal interpretation" of the law.

BTW, teenagers are being executed in Afghanistan for having US dollars in their, why is it so silent now?

Trying to out-argue Denmark does not diminish the valid points Ahmadinejad made about the West one bit. What a stupid strategy..

BTW, talk to me..WTF is Technocracy?

Anonymous said...

True: both God and the holocaust are manmade.