What I’m suggesting here is a synthesis of Washington and Du
Bois—self-reliance while diligently protecting our rights [to full
employment].
Dina said ...
Cognitive dissonance at its finest. This is like promoting the consumption of health-promoting foods while diligently protecting the pharmaceutical industry's demands to drug you for everything under the sun.
em·ploy /ɛmˈplɔɪ/ Show Spelled[em-ploi] verb (used with object)
1. to hire or engage the services of (a person or persons); provide employment for; have or keep in one's service: This factory employs thousands of people.
1. to hire or engage the services of (a person or persons); provide employment for; have or keep in one's service: This factory employs thousands of people.
Your noble aim for the "collective" is to be self-reliant while begging the government to create "conditions" that will make servitude to others a reality.
The contradiction is self-evident.
Dina
12 comments:
There is those words again... 'cognitive dissonance'... I am working on a post about the term because there is an 'under'-understanding of the term...
... contradiction is not only evident, but it is the SOP...
Response to Ms. Dina.
Cognitive dissonance—ROTFLMBAO!
You may want to keep a dictionary handy before you start throwing out terms you obviously don’t understand. A synthesis, involving a judicious selection of the best ideas and practices from various traditions in no way implies discomfort from holding contradictory ideas simultaneously.
Your analogy of my proposed synthesis to this health food-pharmaceutical dichotomy is so ludicrously flawed, it’s not worthy of a response.
[Your noble aim for the "collective" is to be self-reliant while begging the government to create "conditions" that will make servitude to others a reality.]
If you equate making demands with begging that’s your perspective. Based on your perspective the Black Panther Party was just a group of beggars.
The Ten Point Program
1.WE WANT FREEDOM. WE WANT POWER TO DETERMINE THE DESTINY OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.
2.WE WANT FULL EMPLOYMENT FOR OUR PEOPLE.
3.WE WANT AN END TO THE ROBBERY BY THE CAPITALISTS OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.
4.WE WANT DECENT HOUSING, FIT FOR THE SHELTER OF HUMAN BEINGS.
5.WE WANT DECENT EDUCATION FOR OUR PEOPLE THAT EXPOSES THE TRUE NATURE OF THIS DECADENT AMERICAN SOCIETY. WE WANT EDUCATION THAT TEACHES US OUR TRUE HISTORY AND OUR ROLE IN THE PRESENT-DAY SOCIETY.
6.WE WANT COMPLETELY FREE HEALTH CARE FOR All BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE.
7.WE WANT AN IMMEDIATE END TO POLICE BRUTALITY AND MURDER OF BLACK PEOPLE, OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR, All OPPRESSED PEOPLE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES.
8.WE WANT AN IMMEDIATE END TO ALL WARS OF AGGRESSION.
9.WE WANT FREEDOM FOR ALL BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE NOW HELD IN U. S. FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY AND MILITARY PRISONS AND JAILS. WE WANT TRIALS BY A JURY OF PEERS FOR All PERSONS CHARGED WITH SO-CALLED CRIMES UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.
10. WE WANT LAND, BREAD, HOUSING, EDUCATION, CLOTHING, JUSTICE, PEACE AND PEOPLE'S COMMUNITY CONTROL OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY.
[The contradiction is self-evident.]
The only thing self-evident here is a mind so blinded by fragmentation that they can’t see the value of holistic thinking.
My older daughter is 3 1/2 years old and, of late, she starts all statements with a huff and "I want [fill in blank here]". Apparently, this is characteristic of the three-year-old age group. I am told that children grow out of this phase in the next year or two, but it seems that some never do.
This is why no "group" has accomplished anything for the "poor and oppressed" of America. They are mentally 3 1/2, thinking that "I want" is a magic incantation to make things happen. Throw in some protests and Che Guevara T-shirts and it's a party!
The 10-point program sounds good in theory, but it's silly. For example, even if every doctor in America treated every sick person in America for free, no one would be healthier. In fact, they would probably be sicker.
The proponents of this "program" wouldn't have the foggiest idea what to do with all that "freedom" even if they got it. Because anyone who fully appreciates freedom would know that it is not something that is given to you.
Dina
ouch! ha freedom is not something that is given to you
Umm... I don't think people like Huey P. and Fred Hampton were *asking* here, Dina. Just clarifying their aims and purpose before plantation media could assign their own to the group.
Three-year-olds are totally dependent on their parents for their basic needs. They don’t possess the capacity to organize themselves into groups and demand.
Perhaps organizing free breakfast programs, free healthcare clinics, liberation schools and patrolling the community to prevent police brutality constitutes begging in your mind. Thus Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seale, Elaine Brown, Fred Hampton, Lil Bobby Hutton, Eldridge Cleaver, Kathleen Cleaver, Bunchy Carter, Ericka Huggins, Geronimo ji Jaga, and thousands of members of the BPP were just enormous beggars. And some of them were killed in the process of begging.
There is no doubt that The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X, Minister Farrakhan, Khalid Adbul Muhammad, and the hundreds of thousands of members of the Nation of Islam carried groveling to unprecedented heights when the stated “What The Muslims Want.”
1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.
2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.
3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.
4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.
Continued:
5. We want freedom for all Believers of Islam now held in federal prisons. We want freedom for all black men and women now under death sentence in innumerable prisons in the North as well as the South. We want every black man and woman to have the freedom to accept or reject being separated from the slave master's children and establish a land of their own.
We know that the above plan for the solution of the black and white conflict is the best and only answer to the problem between two people.
6. We want an immediate end to the police brutality and mob attacks against the so-called Negro throughout the United States. We believe that the Federal government should intercede to see that black men and women tried in white courts receive justice in accordance with the laws of the land--or allow us to build a new nation for ourselves, dedicated to justice, freedom and liberty.
7. As long as we are not allowed to establish a state or territory of our own, we demand not only equal justice under the laws of the United States, but equal employment opportunities--NOW!
We do not believe that after 400 years of free or nearly free labor, sweat and blood, which has helped America become rich and powerful, so many thousands of black people should have to subsist on relief or charity or live in poor houses.
8. We want the government of the United States to exempt our people from ALL taxation as long as we are deprived of equal justice under the laws of the land.
9. We want equal education--but separate schools up to 16 for boys and 18 for girls on the condition that the girls be sent to women's colleges and universities. We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teachers. Under such schooling system we believe we will make a better nation of people. The United States government should provide, free, all necessary text books and equipment, schools and college buildings. The Muslim teachers shall be left free to teach and train their people in the way of righteousness, decency and self respect.
10. We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited. We want the religion of Islam taught without hindrance or suppression.
Of course neither the Nation of Islam nor the Black Panther Party was begging when they stated what they want. These statements serve as guidelines for action.
Obviously Ms. Dina you have a very limited or distorted understanding of the Black Liberation Struggle in America. So carry on with your diet, and keep a dictionary handy.
HTP
Stop pretending that what you are advocating is the same as what the Nation practiced. You cannot shield your contradictions from scrutiny by claiming that the Nation held them too.
The Nation of Islam is not a group of beggars. Not at all.
You are.
The Nation didn't demand that the government clean up their communities. They did it. They didn't demand that someone else educate their people. They did it. They didn't cry about healthcare. They taught their people how to eat. They didn't ask the government to create jobs for them. They created the jobs.
That is self-reliance. That is why they are still around today.
So long as you are begging the government to "create conditions", your philosophies have nothing to do with the Nation.
Dina
The Nation of Islam is not a group of beggars. Not at all. You are. – Dina
Sister you are trapped by your own illogic. Are you supposed to be a lawyer? I pity your clients.
You said that the statement “I want” is a reflection of a three-year-olds mentality, essentially a beggar’s mentality. Per your definition the platforms of the Nation of Islam and the Black Panther Party reflect a beggar’s mentality. Now you’re trying to escape your contradictions by projecting your illogic onto Makheru (lol).
Did you happen to notice that both groups demanded employment?
NOI # 7: As long as we are not allowed to establish a state or territory of our own, we demand not only equal justice under the laws of the United States, but equal employment opportunities--NOW!
BPP # 2: We want full employment for our people.
Of course the BPP’s “10-point program sounds good in theory, but it's silly.”
And Afrikan American organizations have never accomplished anything.
“This is why no "group" has accomplished anything for the "poor and oppressed" of America. They are mentally 3 1/2, thinking that "I want" is a magic incantation to make things happen.” – Dina
America’s slavemasters decided to end slavery out of the goodness of their hearts. The Stono Rebellion, Gabriel Prosser, Charles Deslondes, the real Denmark “Telemanqe” Vesey, David Walker, Maria Stewart, Nat Turner, Harriet Tubman, Henry Highland and Sarah Garnet, Frederick Douglass, Dred and Harriet Scott had no impact at all.
America’s segregationists decided to end de jure American apartheid out of the goodness of their hearts. Du Bois, Randolph, King, Ella Baker, Bob Moses, Ruby Doris Robinson, Robert Williams, Medgar Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer, Willie Ricks, and Stokely Carmichael had no impact at all.
Afrikan Americans have never accomplished a damn thing for the “poor and oppressed of America.”
It has been proven that various people come to America from colonial, neo-colonial, and developing regions of the world inculcated with white supremacist propaganda. Asante sana for validating that fact.
Bado Mapambano! (the struggle continues)
It has been proven that various people come to America from colonial, neo-colonial, and developing regions of the world inculcated with white supremacist propaganda.
You're projecting again Makheru. You're the one living by White supremacist propaganda, buying into the notion that the "government" can will things into existence.
This allegedly White supremacist government is your savior.
Let's bring the conversation full circle to your conradictory blend of self-reliance and "demanding rights". You "want" the government to provide free "healthcare" to the poor and oppressed of America.
Only someone who thinks the government is a bunch of holy magicians that can heal the sick by decree would ask for such a thing.
You want the government to "create conditions" for full employment.
So the poor and oppressed can work for White supremacists???? This one is especially ironic. The allegedly White supremacist government, in your world view, should be the master.
You want the government to end all wars of aggression?
Why should it? If you want to end wars of aggression, go to the INDIVIDUAL! Instead of silly protests and cute T-shirts, convince every person outside a recruiting center NOT TO JOIN.
Your view of history is that White supremacist government oppresses colored folks and, when they get uppity enough, the White supremacist government concedes something.
Hate to break it to you, slavery didn't end because of slave revolts. In fact, slavery never ended, but that's a separate discussion. If the industrial revolution didn't bring machines to do the work more efficiently, be assured your Black ass would be in the fields picking cotton.
And that fantasy story about segregation ending because of what? Protests? Please.
Black people were self-reliant before segregation ended. Their schools outperformed, or at least, were on par with White schools. Black doctors treated Black patients. The Black church (or mosque) was the center of the community.
How is all that going now?
How is all that going now?—Dina
Bado Mapambano! Since you brought it up, how’s the struggle going for your folks back in Egypt? Or are they in cahoots with the junta? Better still how would it be going for them had they never left the Arabian Peninsula and invaded Afrika?
At least Muammar al-Qaddafi apologized for the Arab enslavement of Afrikan people.
Hate to break it to you, slavery didn't end because of slave revolts. In fact, slavery never ended, but that's a separate discussion. If the industrial revolution didn't bring machines to do the work more efficiently, be assured your Black ass would be in the fields picking cotton. – Dina
Asante for validating that Benghazi mentality. Sadly your knowledge of Afrikan American history is comparable to the 9th grade students I taught last year. All of us did not pick cotton, or even work on plantations. Obviously you are not familiar with industrial slaves, who worked in factories, or skilled slaves.
More importantly you have no idea how the courageous actions of Dred and Harriet Scott pushed America towards Civil War. Indeed Chief Justice Taney’s ruling in Scott v Sandford overturned the Missouri Compromise, and the reaction of free white labor to that ruling had absolutely nothing to do with the Industrial Revolution. They concluded that they could never be paid wages in any type of employment if slavery could spread everywhere in America. Thus slavery had to be crushed.
I could carry on about why it was necessary to pass a second Fugitive Slave Act in 1850; why it was necessary to pass the Negro Act of 1740, and several other facts from antebellum America.
What would be the purpose? You are totally overmatched in this arena, and you’re locked into your distorted views of Afrikan American history. Choose another subject, diet or something, and keep a dictionary handy.
Dina:
Y'all are saying the same thing.
Saying "i want" is not the same as saying "i want you to give me".
I can say "I want a 300M" and then I go out and get a "300M". Didn't beg then. Just stated my goals. Same thing in this case. No ones asking or begging. They were just stating their intentions.
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