However, there is one conversation we have not come to mutual understanding about. it is the only topic we argue about agressively. His family is African & mine is African American. He has 4 brothers & they are all very successful. One of his brothers dates a white woman.
While my man sees her as a nice woman who has only made positive comments about me & loves his brother; for many months, when he & i were alone i periodically made jokes & comments about her race. While he did ask me to stop, I was unaware that my man thought these comments made me seem "phony" & made him feel uncomfortable bringing me around her.
We hang around many black couples & he & i talk openly about the females in the other couples, as far as thier weights, personalities, looks, etc. but he says these comments have no connection and "racial" comments are out of line & that if we dont want our bosses, for example, saying we eat watermelon & chicken etc than we should not make such jokes about her whiteness.
I have tried to document for him historically that when whites talked about blacks in the past it lead to lynching and death and even today criminal charges but when blacks call whites names or make racial comments its a statement of opinion...
Denmark, honestly i am angry. why is her race off limits, i dont have a problem wih her specifically, and have never been rude to her, i even held her hand once! so why the vehement defending of her, & why cant i share my feelings, IN PRIVATE, with my man.
I want to call him an uncle tom. and i dont know why he feels that, because she is nice to him & to me that means he has to defend her, especially to me! I dont want this to come inbetween us, but i feel that it eventually possibly could cause this debate has many underlined meanings, in my opinion. am I wrong?
I don't know if I should, let the argument go, resolve it within me or continue to prove my point?
Denmark Vesey said ...
Hello Anonymous. Welcome to the spot. DV Advice? Do what your man asked you to do.
Shut up about this woman. Don't speak ill of her. Her race is off limits from this point forward. Flip your script.
Don't say anything bad about her ever again. Be warm to her. Be gracious. Get to know her. Become her friend.
Why?
1) Because that is what your man wants you to do.
2) Because that is what your man wants you to do.
3) Your man is right.
4) You don't need to understand why. Just do it.
Having an issue with this woman's "whiteness" ... is not a good look. It makes you look insecure and shallow. By encouraging you not to relate to this woman through a murky fog of dated racial stereotypes your man is encouraging you to grow as a person.
That's part of his job. Let him do it. Stop fighting him. He has excellent judgement.
He is looking out for your long term interest. He is preventing you from being petty.
Your man is no Uncle Tom. He's being very real with you. He's also letting you know that if you can't get over this you can't be his wife.
The Race Victim Narrative is Plantation Negro and needy. Black ... is self-affirming.
Five years from now when you and this woman are good friends ... when your children are first cousins ... you will appreciate his wisdom and vision. He will appreciate your flexibility and growth.
My advice is for you to do that yin thing.
Let him do his yang.
hey dv! how u been sugah?....anyway,
@carol d...love ur statement. the issue has really nothing to do w/ race. it is about control.
we
all want to be "in control" in our relationships. for the sister to
follow her man's lead, shut up and see her vanilla sister with her
spiritual eyes and not the eye she has been conditioned to viewing the
world with will require a level of vulnerability.
to release your own will and allow your man to lead can be frightening. but, it is rewarding.
the brother is wanting his woman to understand that by looking at the vanilla sister as "blood" and not the "other" she will strengthen the entire family.
strong families are impossible to control.
fall in line my sister and watch how strong your man's back becomes....
tgn
. to release your own will and allow your man to lead can be frightening. but, it is rewarding.
the brother is wanting his woman to understand that by looking at the vanilla sister as "blood" and not the "other" she will strengthen the entire family.
strong families are impossible to control.
fall in line my sister and watch how strong your man's back becomes....
tgn
32 comments:
DeeVee - Do people confuse your Pro-Black stance as being Anti-white?
Other than what you've stated - what else would annon. expect you to tell her?
Great advice!
Simple answer. Stop dating a black man and date a white man.
Tell them u took their advice to get past race.
Then listen to all the same bruthas start hating on him. :)
@ Ken 'Simple answer. Stop dating a black man and date a white man.'
And what problem does that solve pray tell? How does that benefit this young woman?
I do not understand people who view EVERYTHING as a matter of race. Are people really that simple?
Many people are afraid to view others as individuals because they are afraid to be viewed as individuals themselves. They create issues and hide behind race.
"Racism is designed to confuse the people who are victims of it." Dr. Neely Fuller
@Ken - cosign 100%
@Carol D'Virgo - I think you misunderstood. According to the advice, it Anonymous overlooks "racial stereotypes" dates a white man as many black men have chosen to date white women, she would be berated, ridiculed, and insulted based on gender bias as well as subconscious racism.
However, there seems to be a "pass" when blk men date interracially. In general, Blk ppl tend to assume that white ppl still don't talk about us behind our backs with racial epithets, simply because some of "us" bi-racial or involved in interracial relationships.
Black people did not create racism or race classifications, nor do we actually have the power to be racist - i.e. we don't deny white ppl jobs or benefits.
We, however, do have the right to exercise preferences like the rest of the world already does! It is not a crime to talk about white folks.
hey dv! how u been sugah?....
anyway,
@carol d...love ur statement. the issue has really nothing to do w/ race.
it is about control.
we all want to be "in control" in our relationships. for the sister to follow her man's lead, shut up and see her vanilla sister with her spiritual eyes and not the eye she has been conditioned to viewing the world with will require a level of vulnerability.
to release your own will and allow your man to lead can be frightening. but, it is rewarding.
the brother is wanting his woman to understand that by looking at the vanilla sister as "blood" and not the "other" she will strengthen the entire family.
strong families are impossible to control.
fall in line my sister and watch how strong your man's back becomes....
tgn
@ Anonymous.
You said:
"Black people did not create racism or race classifications, nor do we actually have the power to be racist-"
Excuse me for being impolite, but...that is the most fucktarded thing I've ever heard. So I suppose the unemployed trailer park white cracker who will never ever make it out of his neighborhood, has no chance of getting a job remotely as good as yours, and who is drinking himself stupid instead of dealing with the mess of his life is NOT racist when he talks trash about Black people being inferior to him (LOL). AFter all, he doesn't have the POWER to be racist! And, lo and behold, HE didn't create racism, either--and neither did HIS people--he's an Irishman, which means he's a tenth Moor and his ancestors were the victims of genocide and the earliest forms of concentration camps at the hands of the British who were living on a neighboring island.
This isn't 1930. Stop trying to justify your ignorance and collectivist thinking behind some "well, historically this and that and blah blah blah." Every "collective group" on god's gray earth has been both victim and perpetrator. Stop playing "my people's historical suffering is worse than and more valuable than YOUR people's historic suffering"--that's the same game Zionist politicians use to lead their citizens around by the nose while committing atrocities against their neighbors to this day. Hitler thought he was a victim, too. The only difference between his victim mentality and yours is that he lucked out and was given the keys to government power. I'd hate to see what would happen if you were equally blessed/cursed.
DV is right. Shut up and stop arguing over dumb shet. You will have bigger fish to fry in your relationship. And please spare me the "black people can't be racist" jargon.
You said:
"Black people did not create racism or race classifications, nor do we actually have the power to be racist-"
Excuse me for being impolite, but...that is the most fucktarded thing I've ever heard. So I suppose the unemployed trailer park white cracker who will never ever make it out of his neighborhood, has no chance of getting a job remotely as good as yours, and who is drinking himself stupid instead of dealing with the mess of his life is NOT racist when he talks trash about Black people being inferior to him (LOL). AFter all, he doesn't have the POWER to be racist! And, lo and behold, HE didn't create racism, either--and neither did HIS people--he's an Irishman, which means he's a tenth Moor and his ancestors were the victims of genocide and the earliest forms of concentration camps at the hands of the British who were living on a neighboring island.
This is why I come to this blog!
outside of the interesting word "f*ctarded" and the point that irish people are part moor; the above comment about a white "drunkard"(often indicative a person with a mental illness) is assanine, a person like this has no real/valid "power" to even weigh in on a subject about the lives of the larger society if he cant even care for himself and his own well-being :(...i like using examples but that was a long pointless point :/ sry....
TELL EM' KEN...its always good for the goose...smh
@ TELL EM' KEN...its always good for the goose...
but is it? really?
there is a proverb to whom much is given much is required DV as the self proclaimed blackess man on the internet I was disappointed to see that you only looked at this from a personal view ther are many factors at play here the black women has always been the mother of the earth and it only makes sense that she would be concerned about the furture generations of blakc people. to be continued.....
@ Ken 'Simple answer. Stop dating a black man and date a white man.'
"And what problem does that solve pray tell? How does that benefit this young woman? " Carol
Yes. Carol. Yes
Welcome to the spot.
Like your style.
Agree with TGN 100%.
But besides the notion of male leadership that even the best of us struggle with at times, the whole "white chick" thing is played. I'm guilty of a snide comment in my day, but now, I really dont have the inclination to care. Dont really know why I cared before.
To each his own.
More power to you.
You like her, I love her.
My soon to be sister-in-law is Hispanic. She's alright. My brother obviously loves her dirty drawls. That's enough for me.
RJEsq.
DV...
A thousand year bloodline
IS.STILL.A.LINE.
Through time...
Those that tinker at the boundaries
Tend to be sublime,
But sometimes they out to alter the bloodline,
Taking FAMILIES in different DIRECTIONS
Like droppin' dimes,
A backstabbing family
Of the most radically autonomous kind...
Two issues at hand,
Must come together like one mind...
But the black man's liberation
IS ALWAYS PARMOUNT
To the black woman's "crime"
Of racial recognition
And white woman's opportunity
To alter the bloodline...
Black man going in different directions
Almost by design...
Black woman so confused
She don't know how to re-align,
If race means nothing
Then how does she align???
How does she express what's in the confines
Of a mind
That let the black man play at the edges
And alter the bloodline???
Black woman's mind = white woman's mind
Is this the paradigm,
That we shall be confined?
Black man's mind = white man's mind
Is this the matrix
Are we in this bind?
What IS a bloodline?
If it is created, can it be destroyed?
If so, it's becomes "what's yours" and "what's mine"
But what creates that split?
And isn't the split a new family by design
Is the bloodline a case of align and re-align?
If so, does crossing racial boundaries
Create new bloodlines
And by consequence destroy old bloodlines?
Who gets to create this schism
Is it just illusory,
Are bloodlines just lies?
"We hang around many black couples & he & i talk openly about the females in the other couples, as far as thier weights, personalities, looks, etc. but he says these comments have no connection and "racial" comments are out of line & that if we dont want our bosses, for example, saying we eat watermelon & chicken etc than we should not make such jokes about her whiteness."-Anon
Finding tabloid tripe in people is a poor way to exercise good opinion. I have a cousin that has raised her children on feeding them poison about other family members. Now they are older they apply the same poison to their own mother. My cousin failed to realize that it wasn't particular family members they were learning to dislike, it was an inconsistent principle they learned to practice.
We live in a gossip/ backbiting/ slanderous/ad hominem culture. A person's honor, be they poor, fat, skinny, ugly, funny dressing or whatever should be off limits just as race. If we guard our tongue all around, then we can fully preserve the principle of good opinion without creating exceptions to the rule.
Gee Chee wisdom.
What GeeChee said.
It seems a bit hypocritical that the person's race is off limits and talking about that denotes immaturity, but talking about a person's weight, clothes, etc. is not.
Sounds like more of that pseudo-i'm-more-progressive-than-others-bullshit.
@Cash Rulz
is it ok for your wife not to like someone because they are fat?
Then why is it ok for her to not like a woman simply because she is white?
preach Cash Rulz thanks brother for just keeping it real! We go directly into attcck mode like a good slave whenever any level of our slumber is agitated.To Love your people and yourself in no way means you hate someone else. This young sista sounds concerned about the fact that we are breeding ourselves out of existance. why is she being demonized and sterotyped because of her concern.
Breeding ourselves out of existence?
Really? Is that a problem in our community? Not enough black people?
Wrong on so many levels.
First of all, our problem isn't having enough black people...but the black people we have aren't doing enough.
Second of all, power ain't always a numbers game. Latinos got mad numbers but don't know how to wield power. Conversely, Jews are a relatively small sliver of our population but wield power very effectively. Not hating, but admiring, you understand.
Third, one could see interracial families as a way of increasing numbers across different constituencies.
you are in attack mode and you sound agitated. Hmmm I wonder why the black people we have aren't doing enough?
"We hang around many black couples & he & i talk openly about the females in the other couples, as far as thier weights, personalities, looks, etc..."-Anon
This should cease immediately as well. Such talk is mental death. Should your man speak of these (negative) things make no more comment, nor engage in such talk any longer. Do this without contesting, or making note that you no longer speak of race so you don't speak of these. To speak about people's weight, looks, fashion, personality, but not race shows he is on the right path, but maybe with only one foot.
When you stop speaking of the other things as well removes you onto the path with both feet and he will follow without noticing. It's best to speak the good of a person or speak not of them at all.
@carol its ok for my wife to talk about whatever she chooses to talk about. but i'm not going to be a hypocrite and say "What's wrong with you calling that Fatty a cracka". Get my point? Either be ok with her talking about the girl's physical/mental state and her race or don't be cool with either. Stand on your square and be consistent. My "pseudo" comment was made because people who love to consider themselves "educated" like to appear better than others because they are the "lesser" of some form of evil. However, you're still "evil" so either admonish your wife for being insecure for having to talk shit about other women period or don't get on her when she adds race to her mix of insults.
"My "pseudo" comment was made because people who love to consider themselves "educated" like to appear better than others because they are the "lesser" of some form of evil. " Cash Rulz
What up Cash?
That's an interesting observation.
Could you elaborate? Provide an example perhaps?
You actually gave a good example.
The husband has no problem with his wife talking negatively about another woman's weight, looks, etc. Yet he has a problem with her talking about this woman's race. Some of the comments have made it seem like he is more progressive because of this and I strongly disagree.
If you're going to see beyond appearance then excellent. See beyond ALL of a person's appearance, not just skin color. If skin color is off-limits then so is every other physical attribute of this person. Therefore, the "lesser" form evil (eg I can talk about weight, but not race, so I'm more progressive = WRONG)
"If you're going to see beyond appearance then excellent. See beyond ALL of a person's appearance, not just skin color. If skin color is off-limits then so is every other physical attribute of this person."
Good point.
I disagree.
But good point.
FAT
1) Fat is more than a matter of appearance. It tells you more about a person than what they happen to look like. It's an amazingly accurate testament to their education, discipline, intelligence, health and future prospects.
2) Recognizing and commenting on someone's fatness is not necessarily talking negatively about them anymore than talking about Shaq's height is talking negatively about him.
It is an acknowledgement of an obvious character trait. Doesn't mean you cannot be friends.
vs.
RACE
1) Race is more than a matter of appearance too. Yes, it tells you more about a person than what they happen to look like.
However, it is NOT an accurate testament to their education, discipline, intelligence, health and future prospects.
2) Recognizing and commenting on someone's Race is not talking negatively about them.
However deciding not to LIKE someone simply because of their race is as petty as not liking someone simply because they happen to be fat.
If a woman and her man chuckle in private about an outfit worn by a friend or an in-law … doesn’t mean they don’t LIKE that person. It means they are amused by that person’s sartorial expression.
"Therefore, the "lesser" form evil (eg I can talk about weight, but not race, so I'm more progressive = WRONG)" Cash Rulz
Don't know about "progressive". However, instructing his woman to stop talking negatively about his brother's wife solely because she is white is SMART.
Anonymous indicated the brother comes from a successful family of brothers. If they are a successful family... they know what they are doing.
Preventing his woman from injecting some ghetto ass race shit that could damage the relationship with his entire family... is wise.
@Anon - up above
Perhaps, my comment seemed fucktarded b/c your mind is fucktarded, so it went over your head.
Even a trailer park Irish person, thinks he/she is better than a black person, and often skin does convey a privilege that blk folks do not have. Clearly, you haven't read Dr. Neely Fuller's book. What does the 1930s have to do with anything? Racism still exists.
That doesn't mean blk folks can't talk about it, ignore it, etc. I agree with Cash, if Race is off-limits, so should every other physical characteristic.
**It's funny everyone seemed to miss how the African had no problem talking about other black folks, but got uncomfortable when a white person's honor was on the line. I say treat every race the same, especially your own.
"Preventing his woman from injecting some ghetto ass race shit that could damage the relationship with his entire family... is wise."
IM TEAM CASH RULZ ON THIS ONE
but DV made a good point right up until this statement, I dont and would never say anything to infiltrate his family. i have nothing but respect for them. but i havent said anything "ghetto" they were just that: comments about race, just as the ones about fat, about personalities etc. and its funny how i watch all the "good attributes" the man has recieved simply because he defends whiteness.....thats speaks volumes
DV your points are actually the same as mine.
Tho' I WHOLEY disagree on weight being a measure of anything. The only thing weight measures is a person's appetite.
I do agree that a person's size can be discussed without having a negative connotation to it, just as a person's race. However, that was not brought up in your example. You just said she said something about the sister-in-laws race. But let's make the assumption that all comments the wife made were negative (race, appearance, etc.).
My attitude is if he's laughing because she called her a "fat, googly eyed chick" then he should laugh if she said "fat, googly eyed white chick".
Otherwise, you're no better than anyone else (which is the case anyway).
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