Ronin said...
DM- i started following your blog during the financial meltdown and have been checking in almost daily now. Your blog makes sense of a lot of the social craziness my friends and I, as 30 year olds from the SF Bay Area have to deal with on a daily basis, ie women, nutrition, etc. The one thing I do disagree with your stance on Israel, but I'm sure we'll have much more time to talk about the Middle East in the coming weeks as the West engineers another War for profit. Keep up the good work.
Yaron aka Ronin
Denmark Vesey said ...
Big Ups Ronin! Big Ups.
Welcome to the spot. Glad to have you. Fighting a war to free the Plantation Negros can be a thankless task. Your appreciation is valued.
Out of curiosity, how would you characterize my stance on Israel? What am I missing? What can I learn?
24 comments:
DMG-
I have to preface my comments by saying that I was born in Israel so take whatever I write with the notion that I am writing from a slanted point of view ( although i will try not to). My father was born in Baghdad, Iraq and my mother was born in Istanbul, Turkey. We are Sephardic Jews. My father's family lived in Baghdad since the days of Abraham until Saddam came to power and tortured the Jewish population till they fled to Israel. This torture included televised public hanging of Jews, some of whom were my father’s friends from college. The main point I want to make is that there is a big difference between Sephardic and Ashkenazi ( European ) Jews but i don’t think many people in the West realize that because all we see in the media is the nerdy Jerry Seinfeld, or Larry David neurotic clown looking ( White) Jew. The Jews from Arab lands speak Arabic, have cultural differences, eat completely different foods etc. My cousins and I for example, who grew up in the states don’t get along with many Ashkenazi Jews living in America because of the traits we are all aware about ( weak, glasses, cheap, greedy, etc).
Israel has routinely sent airlifts to places in Africa like Ethiopia for example, to bring Ethiopian Jews to safety. The reason we don’t hear about non white Jews in Israel in the Western media is because Israel has been scapegoated by the left as the source of RACISM and Arab hatred and if the cat got out of the bag that Israel is diverse or more so than almost any other nation on earth than who would we have to blame for the violence in the Middle East? Walk down a street in Tel Aviv and you will hear Russian, Arabic, German, Spanish, and Hebrew. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that treats women as equals to men, in the eyes of the law at least. Israeli Arabs would not trade in their Israeli citizenship for an Arab one if you paid them. I’m not saying there is no racism in Israel because there is, but to make Israel look like an extension of the Aryan Nation is incorrect. I see how the images come to us in the West and all you see are the same nerdy half dead looking cats (Netanyahu) talking the same BS, but that is not the Israel I know.
Again, I want to thank you for the blog as it is the closest thing to the truth on many topics.
Not sure why you are addressing me specifically....maybe you have me confused (and I have no idea how you could do that...) with "DV" the host of this blog, who seems to have a particular problem with Jews.
I have a problem with Likud and the other right leaning factions in Israel, and also a problem with AIPAC the lobbying group...but not Jews in particular.
This part of your post was interesting: "Walk down a street in Tel Aviv and you will hear Russian, Arabic, German, Spanish, and Hebrew"
Yes, you will hear all of these languages. However, I'd like to ask you (in your opinion) why a 2 Millenium claim to land by groups who only have a religious connection (and come from all over the World--hence multilingual nature of Tel Aviv streets) supercede the claims made by the people who were actually ON the land when immigrants arrived there some 60+ years ago? I will hand it to Israel, they do have one hell of a PR campaign.
I understand the liberal immigration policy set up by the Israeli government, the free trips advertised on every college campus in the U.S., etc.: Jewish Israeli's much like their European counterparts, just aren't having enough babies to sustain their population, whereas those in Gaza and the West Bank are breeding like there's no tomorrow. Then there's the problem of "yerida"...
Interesting topic. Coexistence shouldn't be that hard.
OMG-
Yes, i do have you confused with DV. My bad. I appluad your knowledge of Israel and its politics and agree that coexistence shouldnt be that hard and hope that day comes- though we all know what the reality is. Israel does have a great PR Campaign but so do the Arabs. And while i do agree that a 2 millenium religious claim doesnt mean that the Jews should have the land solely, but history shows that there have always been Jews in that area. Most of the trouble we see today only started after the borders were drawn and politicians sw an opportunity to gain from the violence in the region. Sorry again for mistaking you and thanks for writing back. This blog is great, even though for the most part i am only interested in the food info and recipes:) Lets hope we all make it out of this shit show in one piece.
"The reason we don’t hear about non white Jews in Israel in the Western media is because Israel has been scapegoated by the left as the source of RACISM and Arab hatred and if the cat got out of the bag that Israel is diverse or more so than almost any other nation on earth than who would we have to blame for the violence in the Middle East?"-Ronin
Who is this powerful "left" that has Western media under their thumb? Pacifica radio? NPR? Palestinian Film Festivals? Vs. what, FOX, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC. If Ashkenazi Jews aren't reporting non-white Jews, the "left" is suppose to pick up the tab?
"...who would we have to blame for the violence in the Middle East?"
Boogie man Osama bin Laden and Islamic Terrorists are BLAMED for the violence. Is the term "terrorist" EVER associated with Jews (Sephardic or Ashkenazi)?
"If it ever got out Israel was diverse..."?
???
??
?
Where is that going? Sudan has a large population of Malaysians. And? That would've reversed the "SAVE DAFUR" campaign?
See some of the oldest pictures of Kuwaitis in their museums and you see BLACK folks. Not only that you still have royalty that look like dudes off the streets of Philly.
And?
I'm trying to understand how the image of diversity will switch up the politics. Not to be offensive but every time I hear the "Ethiopian airlift" story it really comes off condescending.
Like helping inner city Negroes or serving some land to the Native Indians. Again not to rip into you it just has that "Civil Rights handout-be grateful" tone. I applaud the action but in the context of being a humanitarian there are plenty horror stories to counteract that.
Most people in the West think Israel is just a bunch of white lawyers and bankers like they see here in the US. The left also hates Israel because it is an idea that comes from the Bible which is a huge no no for the left.
The left is the entire Western Media basically. Fox is a forum for whats left of the Republican party. CNN, NBC,CBS, ABC are nothing but propaganda stations for the left and the Scientific Dictatorship.
Say what you will about the airlift stories but it happenned. Everytime Israel makes a mistake peopel are quick to yell bloody murder. But when Israel does something good, its condoscending. i dont see that kind of thing happenning in the Arab countries. In fact, if you are not the right sect of Islam in many of these nation ( Sunni, Shiite) you can be viewed as a second class citizen. If the Arab countries sent helpful aid to the Palistinians instead of weapons and hate we would have a very different Middle East. How many times does Israel need to give up land for peace only to get bombs in return ( specifically targetting its women and children)? Sudan is very different from the Middle East. Its night and day.
How many more fake AP photos do we need to see before we relaize who is telling the truth?
Al Qaeda is showing you right now that Islamic Fascism will not stop if Israel went away.
"The left also hates Israel because it is an idea that comes from the Bible which is a huge no no for the left."
That's kind of a broad statement don't you think? I think many on the left hate RIGHT WING ISRAELI POLICIES, not necessarily the State of Israel.
I can tell you what I don't like, but I just speak for me.
1. The concentration camps Israel likes to call Gaza and the West Bank (let's be real here...that's what they are). I'm very familiar with the battle for water in and around those areas. While lush manicured lawns are seen on the settlements encroaching the camps, little is left to sustain the population inside. When movement is restricted in or out? That's called prison. Raining down U.S. supplied weapons on civilian targets? That's called collective punishment. Actually it's more akin to genocide....by definition.
2. AIPAC. Exactly WHY must a U.S. President publicly proclaim his support for another country? Especially when the population of a certain religious group makes up such a minuscule portion of the U.S. It is scandalous what we let that country get away with.
Last I checked it wasn't the 51st State.
3. Allowing Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men to live off public aid and avoid military service...while breeding like rabbits. This is one of the groups that's pushing the flouting of international peace agreements calling for abandoning settlements.
4. Mistake? Apartheid wasn't a mistake. Nazi Germany's treatment of Russians, Poles, Gays, Jews, Gypsies, etc. wasn't a mistake. These were deliberate evils. Bulldozing houses is a mistake (emasculate a man in front of his son, and see how quickly that boy wants to brave a tank just to get a chance to throw a rock at an IDF solider). The overall policy toward Palestinians is unspeakable. Please don't insult my intelligence about their "PR campaign". You go live in Gaza.
5. Coordinated propaganda campaigns whenever someone mentions ANYTHING disparaging (or hell even if it's the obvious TRUTH) toward Israel and labeling them "anti-semitic" (which I find funny when the term is not specific to Jews. One can be against Arabs and be anti-semitic).
A recent example was what happened to Oliver Stone. The loud noise drowns out any explanation. The dude is part Jewish (yeah, yeah Jewish law says your mother has to be...).
(contd)
6. And enough with holocaust (small h). It's not like it was the ONLY one, or the WORST one, or the LAST one. Genocide is genocide. That's what happened in Nazi Germany. When I hear "never again" I say bullshit, because it's happening NOW. We suffered a 400 year holocaust of systematic, rape, enslavement, murder and dispersion of families...but we are told simply to "get over it". Due to the exquisite PR campaign we are reminded with big budget blockbusters every few summers. And everyone seems to have forgotten about the Nazi's other victims. And god forbid an actual historical scholar wanted to revisit the historical data from that era.
7. "...give up land for peace". I think you meant give BACK land for peace. You can't say "nobody was living there when you all arrived". If Israel is in a constant state of war, it's because of their own doing. You back a man against the wall for generations you are going to create someone who not only is willing to die for his cause, but actually welcomes death. Ignoring past deeds and being intransigent isn't going to bring peace to that region. And crying "everyones always picking on the Jews", while firing Hellfire missiles into civilian areas won't help change the perception, but rather perpetuate old stereotypes and make it easier for neutral parties to by into them.
None of this is your doing personally. So don't think I'm getting down on you. The obscene policies of Israel and the cowards in my government and worldwide (including the Arab nations who don't give a shit about the Palestinians, but are happy to exploit the situation for their own benefit) who go along with these policies are the target of my ire. I've got plenty of good friends in Tel Aviv and Haifa and Jerusalem who agree with me.
DMG-
I'm learning a lot from you. Thanks for that. I agree. Enough with the Holocaust. Gaza is the way it is because the Palistinians refuse to even try to live in peace. why is it that only 5 miles from the border you can find thriving Israeli towns and tourist areas. Why dont the Palistinians use Gaza as a tourist area like Eilat or something decent instead of just a launching pad for missiles?
Wsup Everyone.
Welcome to the blog Ronin.
Y'said:
"The reason we don’t hear about non white Jews in Israel in the Western media is because Israel has been scapegoated by the left as the source of RACISM and Arab hatred and if the cat got out of the bag that Israel is diverse or more so than almost any other nation on earth than who would we have to blame for the violence in the Middle East?"
'Scuse me, Israel has its own political and media machinery to ensure that non-White faces and voices do not become part of Israeli public discourse. The shameful treatment of Ethiopians in Israel, particularly women, has long been undocumented and it has nothing to do with some Western bogeymen running the leftist press.
Hearing about Operation David and all that makes for a feel good bedtime story, but the Falashas are only the tip of the iceberg.
And now that Ethiopian population's on the rise, the State's doing it's do to keep the birth rates and migration rates down.
...Aint no meedja bogeymen, Israel's quite capable of rubbing others out on it's own.
And on the subject of the creation of Israel, I remember reading an essay by Frank Shapiro (book: Haven in Africa) who claims that the Jews had a choice between present-day Zambia/Zimbabwe and Israel, they chose Israel because they could have their own state, but they could well have been White Jews with farms in Zambia thanking God stars they didn't settle in 'Southern Rhodesia' only to get kicked out by Mugabe.
...peace
DMG, have you, or KW, or Yaron for that matter, read the Goldstone Report? It is a 575 page report released in September of 2009 regarding a fact finding mission on the Gaza conflict on behalf of Justice Richard Goldstone, the Head of the UN Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict. You can view the final submission in pdf form here:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
I haven't had the chance to really sit down and start reading through it in its entirety, but what I found interesting, and unfortunately commonplace, is that even though Justice Goldstone documented a large number of violations by the Israeli military, Ambassador Aharon Leshno Yaar basically wrote the whole investigation off as prejudiced and anti-Semitic....hmmm.
Yaron, as DMG stated, it is not an issue of people "hating Jews", as in all Jews, but rather Israeli policy and the occupation of Palestinian land under the philosophy of Zionism. Yet every time someone speaks out against the Zionist Movement, which is upheld by the beliefs of jokers such as Rupert Murdoch-the owner of Fox News, NY Times, 20th Century Fox, Star TV in Asia, and even now the Wall Street Journal-the comment is written off as "anti-Semitic". This whole notion of "anti-Semitism" keeps discussion of the real issue, the issue of Zionism and occupation in the Middle East, off the table. And the holocaust is immediately brought up whenever the "anti-Semitism" flag is raised. As DMG mentioned however, what has been said to have happened in Germany under Nazi regime is far from the only holocaust that has existed. The African Diaspora, the elimination of the indegenous people of the Americas, and Khmer Rouge in Cambodia under Pol Pot get no play when up against the Holocaust (capital H...as in "The" holocaust as we are so accustomed to recognizing it).
So it's far from thinking that Israel is nothing more than a bunch of lawyers and bankers. 96% of the media in this country is owned by Jews (and by only six or seven different companies), AIPAC basically runs the US through lobbying, even the fashion industry is controlled by Jews (up to 80% of the industry in the US was controlled by Jews by the start of the 20th century). The link between all of these entities, is again Zionism. You then have the families that created this Federal Reserve mess, including the Warburg Family and the House of Rothchilds.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitic, nor are all Jews Zionists. What pains most people is the fact that these Zionists pull the victim card at every possible chance, yet maintain control over seemingly everything on the planet, including the lives of these Palestinians held prisoner in their own land. And the US, the supposed Leader of the Free World, abides by their every demand...which basically leaves the blood of the Palestinian people on our hands as well.
^^
Remember all of that is categorized and filed under "mistakes." Carry on with operation "Ethiopian airlift."
I will read the report but everyone knows that the Un has become on of the biggest jokes of all time with thug countries like Libya getting elected to the Human Rights Commission. One big joke. In addition, the UN gives legitimacy to the Scientific Dictatorship that we read about on this blog everyday. What do you expect that report is going to say?
But let me ask again, why arent the Palistinians able to use Gaza for example, which is on one of the primest real estate in the world, right there on the Meditteranean; why arent they able to turn that area into something more of a Beirut 20 years ago, which is one of the best beach/tourist areas in the world? Works pretty well for Israel till the haters start launching missiles over the borders. And you guys legitimize that as well by not knowing the facts and history. Where did all that aid money that was sent to Arafat finally end up?
Sure the UN is a joke when you have the U.S. in your pocket to veto any resolution AGAINST Israel.
Explain this "Scientific Dictatorship" you've mentioned it a couple of times.
Why can't the Palestinians use Gaza? Dude don't play dumb. You know as well as I do that the water resources for Gaza are inadequate, and not under their control. By the way...try getting to Gaza from the sea through international waters.
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/9A265F2A909E9A1D8525772E004FC34B
A few minor incy wincy "mistakes" that Israel makes from time to time brought to you by Scientific Dictatorship TV.
http://denmarkvesey.blogspot.com/2010/05/plantation-negros-wearing-darfur-t.html
Unfortunately no film footage of Israel's diversity and Ethiopian airlifts.
" And while i do agree that a 2 millenium religious claim doesnt mean that the Jews should have the land solely, but history shows that there have always been Jews in that area." -Yaron
You're correct. Arab Muslims, Arab Jews and Arab Christians populated the region before the Israeli state was established, and they all coexisted. So these Zionists claiming it's their land...how could it be the same Arab Jews that were already there? It's not, that's why. Helen Thomas was correct in her remarks that the majority of these Zionists claiming the land were from elsewhere; Poland, Russia, Germany, etc. I'm pretty sure there are numbers of Arab Jews in the region still that do not agree with any of the Zionist occupation.
"If the Arab countries sent helpful aid to the Palistinians instead of weapons and hate we would have a very different Middle East." -Yaron
How are they going to get it there Yaron? Israel wrote the whole Gaza Flotilla raid of as an attempt to stop weapons from being brought into the region. So while they were attacking civilians in their so-called attempt to defend themselves...did they find any weapons? Or are they hiding with Iraq's WMD's and Iran's nukes?
http://www.newsweek.com/2009/09/15/intelligence-agencies-say-no-new-nukes-in-iran.html
Rupert and the boys didn't report that one, did they? That would be too much like right.
"How many times does Israel need to give up land for peace only to get bombs in return ( specifically targetting its women and children)?"
Give up land? What land by rightful ownership is solely theirs to begin with? Palestine existed before 1948. The Israeli state as we know it did not. And Palestine is the one targeting women and children?
http://ifamericansknew.org/
124 Israeli children...1441 Palestinian children as of December 3, 2009. Hopefully the site doesn't get taken over before you get a chance to check it out, much like CAL's student government, courtesy of Jonathan Kessler:
"How are we going to beat back the anti-Israel divestment resolution at Berkeley? We’re going to make certain that pro-Israel students take over the student and reverse the vote. That is how AIPAC operates in our nation’s capitol. This is how AIPAC must operate on our nation’s campuses." Check him out at around the 59 second mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Yjg0jXSUQ
Nice AIPAC youtube link. Thanks, good stuff. Here is an interesting article. AIPAC has a definite and well organized strategy. All of this talk about how Al-Qaeda, and Russian operatives are creating sleeper cells and whatever and a foreign entity is holding student conferences in the open and shaping future U.S. foreign policy.
AIPAC is the real subversive entity in the U.S.
I am one of Arab Jew that doesnt agree with the occupation. In fact, if you look at any poll, most ISraeli's will say that they do not agree with the occupation. Only problem its hard to not look across the border when everyime you do there is a bomb getting made or launched at you.
"124 Israeli children...1441 Palestinian children as of December 3, 2009."-- these numbers are disrepectful. How many times do you need to hear that the Arabs use children as part of their propaganda campagns by fighting and building bases right next to schools.
I think if you look in the context of the Middle East as on big region, instead of states ruled by Dictators and a few royal families, then you will see that the Arab countries basically forced Jews out of their own lands through terror and murder- where does everyone think those Jews were going to go?
At this point I honestly dont care what happens, i just like to know where everyone is getting their garbage anti- Israel ( jew) propoganda. Last time anti- jewish hatred was this good Goebelles was spinning it. He would be proud today. Seems to me if you are not with Israel or Jews in general in your country or region, you are that much closer to a Dictatorship. Its been the same story since the beginning of time. You guys are falling for it hook line and sinker. gang up on the Jews and next thing you know your whole world is at War. Lets get on with it already:)!
"...Arab countries basically forced Jews out of their own lands through terror and murder"-Yaron
Could you share those histories or do you suggest a website?
"...gang up on the Jews and next thing you know your whole world is at War"-Yaron
Sort of left that statement dangling. Are you pulling from a cosmology proselytizing a stand off between the non-Jewish world and Jews? Everyone may not be familiar with the historic or prophesied roles they are to play out. Could you clarify.
Hi Gee Chee,
Here's something from Wiki but i would recommend searching more sites because the truth is actually worse than what Wiki has. This also ties into my second point. As soon as these nation states start to go after the Jews expect a dictatorship in the near future. Happenned in the Bible, WWII, Soviet Union, The Inquisition, England under King Edward. Over and over again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands
The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim lands refers to the 20th century mass departure of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Islamic countries. The migration started in the late 19th century and peaked following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Between 800,000-1,000,000 Jews were expelled or left their homes in Arab countries due to persecution and anti-Semitism. Lebanon had been the only Arab country to see an increase in its Jewish population between 1948-1967.[citation needed] Another 200,000 Jews from non-Arab muslim countries left due to increasing insecurity and growing hostility
GeeChee-
Here is a wiki link but you should do your own research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands
Where have we heard this story before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands
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