Thursday, April 08, 2010
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"Oh Shit! ... GMO Food Sterilizes People ... And It's Really A Form of Population Control?"
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
Alexander King, Bertrand Schneider - founder Club of Rome - The First Global Revolution, pp.104-105
"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."
GET A CHICK...
Were We All Kunta Kinte? Or Are We Also Mansa Musa?
Barry Goldwater 1909-1998
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. "
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad
"It Is Easier To Change A Man's Religion Than It Is To Change His Diet"
Private Prison Industry
2,000,000 human beings in American prisons and counting
IS THIS LITTLE GUY A PERSON?
The founders of the American state understood that the proper functioning of a democracy required an educated electorate. It is this understanding that justifies a system of public education and that led slaveholders to resist the spread of literacy among their chattels. But the meaning of "educated" has changed beyond recognition in two hundred years. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are no longer sufficient to decide on public policy. Now we need quantum mechanics and molecular biology. The knowledge required for political rationality, once available to the masses, is now in the possession of a specially educated elite, a situation that creates a series of tensions and contradictions in the operation of representative democracy.
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. P
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Louis Pasteur
"The Microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything."
Beverly Johnson. Beverly Hills. 1978
"Bra! Tell Me About It!"
"Most of the trouble I have had in advancing the cause of the race has come from Negroes."
Ted Turner - CNN founder and UN supporter - quoted in the The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor, June '
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
Lord Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science On Society (Routledge Press: New York, 1951).
"At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 per diem. War, so far, has had no very great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars.. War has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove effective. If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. The state of affairs might be unpleasant, but what of it?"
Denmark Vesey For President 08
1. Troops Out Of Iraq Immediately. Like By Monday. 2. Money Owed To Haliburton and War Contractors Be Given Directly To The Iraqi People 3. Complete Electoral Reform 4. No Corporate Conglomerate Will Be Allowed To Control More Than 5% Of News Market 5. Federal Reserve Abolished 6. For-Profit Prison Industry Abolished
*George Orwell (1903-1950) English novelist, critic
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness... If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... The great enemy of clear language is insincerity... The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it... To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle... For a creative writer possession of the truth is less important than emotional sincerity.
“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society will be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values.” – Zbigniew Brzezinski
God Don't Make No Mistakes
Gordon Parks 1912-2006
"I suffered evils, but without allowing them to rob me of the freedom to expand."
Great Grandmother Harris
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80 comments:
Malcolm X @ roundtable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mEk3PQWHsM
Martin had a huge heart. Just as some argue that Garvey had good intentions, the same applies to Martin. My position is that his "threat" of integration (in all of it's arguable components) is only incendiary to the same constituency that believes they are threaten by Obama's presidency. "THEY" meaning those who were blind to the Bush administration, but has X-ray vision* with Obama.
Yes they will always sabotage our efforts, but they sabotage us when we aren't making any effort. It was the fear of slave insurrections of mostly the Muslim slaves** not because Frederick Douglass laid down some heart warming speech or Lincoln killed it on open mic. John Brown argued to Douglass that freedom would not come through convincing.
The only thing dividing history from the evening news is a flux capacitor.
Ofcoarse the end of slavery came by the heroic rational thinking of the "founding forefathers."
Ofcoarse Civil Rights was the reason for the change in legislation.
Not the fact that in one year alone, 363 cases of US officers on the battlefield being fragged by GIs in 1970. Compare that to Sgt. Asan Akbar in 2003.
Not the fact the Weather Underground's bombings of the Pentagon and police offices.
Not the fact that support for organizations like the Panthers were rising.
It was fear not unconditional love that set things into motion. Think what that means to the psyche if that was the driving force behind our nation's transformations.
Hip-Hop. Where is it EVER recorded on the evening news that this art formed "STEAM ROLLED" over popular medias efforts to dismiss it, demonize it and suppress it. NOWHERE, and never will be. Only through writers like Tricia Rose, Nelson George, Greg Tate etc. No amount of bad media, sabotage could thwart it. However money could control it. Just like the Civil Rights movement. Malcolm speaks about the march on Washington. That it went from angry Negroes, to sedated Negroes. An all star team of leaders to give it a productive positive direction. This is not bashing King, but we know there was growth in his final 8 years.
Actually at the beginning, King started off carrying a gun on his person. He was convinced by close advisers that it goes against what he spoke, but the evening news (history) doesn't put that on your child's lunch box. However, I'm sure his family wouldn't favor publicizing that human side of him.
* Paul Mooney
**Between the sixteenth and eighteenth century the Muslim slaves were not the only ones revolting, but they were the only ones targeted with specific legislation because of their tradition of defiance and an unfounded fear of them proselytizing to the indigenous peoples.
The crux of this is not picking up a gun but not exaggerating the accomplishments of the Civil Rights movement.
An older cat made a point that Civil Rights activists were "extremists. They accepted death would be apart of their struggle. So their bravery is not in question. Amiri Baraka says, "If you want to know how long you can keep a slave in bondage, then know how many times you can hit him before he retaliates." It may not be his quote but I heard him say it. Institution building was that retaliation. Civil Rights movement eliminated that concept. In my mind that's suspect. Not only does the immigrant community benefit from the sacrifices of the Civil Rights struggle (an wonder why you don't) but build institutions within our neighborhoods. Not their fault. They are trying to provide for their families like any other human being. Meanwhile all we take from Garvey is that he failed.
Ideas plant seeds that flourish when cultivated. They do not fail.
KP
We have no celebratory acknowledgment of the Garveys, Drew Alis etc. History ignores their contributions and exacerbates the significance of all the Martins. Impulsively one will then categorize these contributions in terms of "success and failure" based on politically correct constructs.
^^ That's Brilliant Gee Chee.
Your point regarding the building of institutions is critical.
The Plantation is an institutional monopoly.
The Civil Rights Negros were financed and manipulated to reform the Plantation.
The leveraged the moral authority and political potential of black people in exchange for meaningless legislation.
The Plantation waged a subversive and illegal war against black men that sought to create competing institutions: Garvey / The Honorable Elijah Mohammad.
The fact is MLK was as coopted early in his career as Barack Obama is today.
Hopefully Barack will turn his back on spiritual wickedness in high places, and walk with God as did Martin.
"meaningless legislation"DV
The legislation is not meaningless because we live in a society of laws. The Jews seem to understand this because although they are an ethnic minority they've made great inroads in LEGAL professions, the medical professions, banking etc.
The point is that he who makes the laws and controls capital has POWER.
If you only have capital but no legal footing you are screwed. If you have legal footing but no capital you aren't as screwed.
Look at the early history of our country. There was a Black couple in one of the NE colonies, I forget which one. Anyway they got quite rich and had two and a half generations of land ownership. Midway through the third generation, the county governments voted that Blacks would be declared slaves in the borders of their state and could not hold private property.
The Black couple that started that legacy was so busy accumulating capital that they did not see that LAWS were being constructed to disenfranchise them. Their descendants were made into slaves.
The Civil Rights movers and shakers attacked rights violations on several prongs, it wasn't just via legislation it was also via economic incentives eg the Montgomery bus boycotts.
I think you are oversimplifying something quite complex DV.
Don't get me wrong, some of the rhetoric about getting along and basically allowing people who've shit on you for centuries to get away scott free bothers me to this day. BUT the laws on the books protect us in more ways you can imagine.
Think if we didn't have the civil rights laws...and I am not really talking about the 13 and 14th Amendments either...
"Civil Rights" was a head fake Mahdisa.
Dog chasing it's tail.
We should have focused on securing our unalienable rights which can neither be granted nor taken away by any government.
We sat at lunch room counters, endured being spit upon and beaten ... DEMANDING the right to spend money with people who did not want our money and to work for people who did not want us to work for them ... in the mean time we could have been serving and employing each other.
Shit was stupid strategically.
We were played.
That's why they funded the memetic PR charade and called it "Civil Rights".
40 years from now people who aint already sick and dead will be saying the same thing about the "National Health Care" charade.
Hey DV I feel you to the extent that I would NEVER allow anyone to spit on me and not do something about it. I wouldn't have wanted to spend my money at businesses that didn't want to serve me either.
But you are missing the point. If you don't agitate to change LAWS you will end up rich and without any rights and then they will pass a LAW to take away your gold. This is what has happened time and time again in our country when people had no LEGAL RIGHTS.
Remember the Black Wall Street in Oklahoma? Those Negroes were straight up killed, although they were thriving economically, outside of their bubble they had no legal rights or recognition of legal rights.
Thus within a few days all of that was lost.
LAWS are important.
I believe in the Spook who sat by the door just as much as I believe in agitating for laws to be changed. If you don't do both then you will end up screwed.
OK.
OK.
I can get with that.
Laws are important.
Laws. Are. Important.
Real laws and the spirit of the law.
For example:
What good is a "Voting Rights Act" in 1964 .. if in 2004 the votes of certain people are thrown in dumpsters?
What good is a Voting Rights Act if electronic voting machines cannot be trusted?
What good is a Voting Rights Act ... if THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between candidates?
(Under Barack Obama more unmanned drones have bombed Pakistan than in the entire 8 years of the Bush administration)
So ... Mahndisa, I submit "Civil Rights" are of little value.
The people who give them to you can take them away anytime they want.
Patriot Act takes those rights from Black and White alike.
Hey you aren't lying about the Patriot Act and you have a point that whenever a law can be repealed that granted rights, it never had any real force. BUT you have to acknowledge that without the laws as minorities in a country where they had more guns and more ammo for their guns, something had to be done otherwise we'd be embroiled in a war that we could not win except in specific locales.
The laws still provide measures of protection that are better than no laws at all.
Frankly there should never have been a civil rights voting act because under the premise of equality we should have been voting. So I dig what you are saying on some levels...
"without the laws as minorities in a country where they had more guns and more ammo for their guns, something had to be done" MR
I don't think I agree with that M.
I think once people define themselves as a "minority" ... they are doomed.
We are not "minorities".
We are Americans.
Any definition other than that is a trap.
The white v. black dialectic is Group Identity quicksand.
There is no "they".
White people do not operate in concert.
Puppet masters pit the illusions of Groups against each other while they suck the life blood out of all.
Think about it M.
Black and white Americans alike have been reduced to a nation of people who pretty much let's the government (CDC) decide what vaccines to inject into their kids and what genetic modifications can be made to their food.
We have abdicated and outsourced our self-determination to "leaders" in the employ of others.
The government is out of control.
The people who have seized government used blacks as pawns to break to make their move.
"We are Americans" DV
That is no more an illusion and ghettoized thinking than being a "Black or White group". The idea of a physical nation-state with which people commonly identify still creates a distinction between those who may identify and those who may not - either as unconstituted citizens like hobos or legal and illegal migrants.
Does a Haitian, Jamaican or Pole living the US identify with this group, built constructed in terms of citizenship not personhood?
iThink if American identity unites people into political action then it has be framed in terms of the post-nation, that's how the superstructures like Plantation operate: the EU and multinational corporates that control the majority of the world's wealth.
Against these beasts being American, Mexican, Somali or Russian means what? How do all these 'national groups' tackle that?
Or even within the confines of America with all the diff national groups and the beast decided nationality was the tool of divison what political resistance does being American have?
Back to the post:
i. What would y'all have preferred that was possible at the time? That which would not have cost the lives of many, many more than those who died in the Civil Rights Era.
ii. How would you shape things now in order to make real, that better option?
Hey KW sounds like you are more of a globalist Christian. I am not talking about your religion but more or less of the ethos of your post. Someone who advocates loving neighbors and talking about people as people versus citizens of a made up nation state. I sort of feel you on that.
DV you seem to be just as conflicted about this stuff as I am. A minority is a reference to NUMBERS. There are 200 MILLION white people and 12 MILLION Black people in this country. If ever we came to a battle of force, they would have overwhelmed us. Like I said that is what happened to the Black Wall Street in OK when they really WERE acting independently and building THEIR OWN WEALTH. You have to understand that they were ALLOWED to do that UNTIL they threatened to eclipse the wealth of the whites. Then lynch mobs and laws taking their money away went down.
You don't know what I would have done if I could go back in time; they'd probably have me committed or up for the death penalty because YOU and ME and KW and every single person around the world has the RIGHT to not take shit from anyone! The crap that my ancestors and your ancestors put up with is foul and demeaning.
I asked my Grandpa Butch why they were so nice to people who lynched them.He said that they HAD to be nice because if shit came to shit, we'd lose a war because we JUST DIDN'T have the population to win one.
What role might you have played during those times, as KW aptly asked?
So, I'm wondering how King's sitdown differed from Garvey's sitdowns.
Like these:
Garvey was, in fact, attempting to present himself before the white American establishment as the potential architect of a new racial "compromise." This was, indeed, a far cry from the sentiment that Garvey voiced when, at the close of the August 1920 convention, he was reported in the Negro World of 11 September as having "hurled defiance at the 'crackers' of the South." During this period of political retreat, Garvey embarked on his various flirtations with Senator T. S. McCallum of Mississippi and with the infamous Ku Klux Klan, setting the precedent for his subsequent alliances with John Powell, leader of the Anglo-Saxon Clubs of America, with Earnest Sevier Cox, leader of the White America Society, and still later in the 1930s with Sen. Theodore G. Bilbo, the scourge of Mississippi black people.
When Garvey spoke at Carnegie Hall on "The Future of the Black and White Races," on 23 February 1923, the audience was assured that "the Universal Negro Improvement Association believes in the purity of all races and respects the rights of all peoples." It was no mere accident, moreover, that the second volume of Garvey's Philosophy and Opinions should have begun with the statement written in October 1923 entitled, "An Appeal to the Soul of White America" (pp. 1--6).
Garvey's espousal of the doctrine of racial purity, beginning in the summer of 1921, however, did not originate with his alleged West Indian misreading of the supposedly different system of racial segmentation in America. "Not only did Garvey advocate race purity," E. D. Cronon comments in Black Moses, "but as a Jamaican black he attempted to transfer the West Indian three-way color caste system to the United States by attacking mulatto leaders" (p. 191). This view echoed DuBois's earlier statement in his essay "Back to Africa," in which he claimed that Garvey brought to America "the new West Indian conception of the color line" (p.541). "Imagine, then, the surprise and disgust of these Americans when Garvey launched his Jamaican color scheme," DuBois recounted (p. 542). The same view, with only minor modification, was taken by the black sociologist Charles S. Johnson in his essay in Opportunity, August 1923, wherein he adjudged that Garvey "hated intensely things white and more intensely things near white" (p. 232). Yet in proposing the creation of a "United States of Africa" in June 1922, Garvey made it plain that his whole outlook was based upon "the White Man's civilization [as] a splendid example to Negroes."
I guess when King sat down with a representative from the dominant power structure it was inherently evil, but when Garvey did it, it was a sign of vision.
Not sure why that's true, but if Denmark Vesey said it, I should just accept it.
Right?
Now this paragraph here:
Marcus Garvey came to the U.S. less than ten years ago, unheralded, unfriended, without acquaintance, relationship, or means of livelihood. This Jamaican immigrant was thirty years old, partially educated, and 100 per cent black. He possessed neither comeliness of appearance nor attractive physical personality. Judged by external appraisement, there was nothing to distinguish him from thousands of West Indian black people who flock to our seaport cities. And yet this ungainly youth by sheer indomitability of will projected a propaganda and commanded a following, within the brief space of a decade, which made the whole nation mark him and write his speeches in their books.
That says everything that needs to be said about DV's recent postings.
The mixture of a self-made man who was also a master of the meme appeals to everything DV holds dear.
Now, the part about Garvey being unattractive and portly might be a bit of turn-off, but obviously DV is willing to overlooks such minor problems.
Finally, I suggest everyone read this:
http://www.international.ucla.edu/africa/mgpp/lifeintr.asp
If don't have an "aha" moment while reading that, there is no hope for you.
So are the links where you got the text from Big Man? Because that text sounds very analytical and interesting. Thanks for sharing it. I never realized that he tried to impose the Carribean colour system on us. Whoa!
MR
Yeah, it's a whole series of papers on Garvey and his life. Mostly laudatory, but there are some other nuggets.
Reading the link made some stuff about this site make even more sense.
Great points Big Man. Clearly DV's attempt to disparage MLK reflects a lack of historical knowledge of this subject.
Certainly, the first thing I thought about upon viewing the caption and the picture of MLK and LBJ was Garvey's meeting with the KKK in Atlanta in 1922, and Malcolm X meeting with the KKK in Atlanta (1/28/1961) on behalf of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad for similar reasons.
Sis. Rigmaiden, I would recommend this book. It’s a collection of essays, speeches, etc., by Garvey, Du Bois and others.
http://www.librarything.com/work/76805
This documentary provides baseline knowledge, but it also contains a lot of negative propaganda about Garvey.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3731166223368624294#docid=-1794011868817962482
Dearest MB and BigMan thanks for dropping some knowledge. My information on Garvey is fragmented at best, but I do recall seeing his face in my home as a kid. My parents were really into the movement back in the day, hence me and my siblings names etc. In any event, you are always both sharing some balanced perspective and I think we have all learned from you. :)
Here is another book, with which I KNOW MB is familiar. EVERY single Black person and really every single American ought to read this book by Leon Higginbotham. It highlights colonial laws in five of the early colonies. We must read this stuff so that we don't forget and allow it to happen again.
We've been engaged in some intellectual masturbation hereabouts on the topic of Garvey to an extent. But what I really want to know is how each and every one of you feel about Confederate History Month?
"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among them is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
The general words above quoted would seem to embrace the whole human family, and if they were used in a similar instrument at this day would be so understood. But it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration; for if the language, as understood in that day, would embrace them, the conduct of the distinguished men who framed the Declaration of Independence would have been utterly and flagrantly inconsistent with the principles they asserted; and instead of the sympathy of mankind, to which they so confidently appealed, they would have deserved and received universal rebuke and reprobation.
Yet the men who framed this declaration were great men — high in literary acquirements — high in their sense of honor, and incapable of asserting principles inconsistent with those on which they were acting. They perfectly understood the meaning of the language they used, and how it would be understood by others; and they knew that it would not in any part of the civilized world be supposed to embrace the negro race, which, by common consent, had been excluded from civilized Governments and the family of nations, and doomed to slavery. They spoke and acted according to the then established doctrines and principles, and in the ordinary language of the day, and no one misunderstood them. The unhappy black race were separated from the white by indelible marks, and laws long before established, and were never thought of or spoken of except as property, and when the claims of the owner or the profit of the trader were supposed to need protection.
Hey Mahndisa
I'm glad ya hear me, indeed it is better to think of people as people not as citizens. The idea of citizenship is problematic on so many levels - it is a form of political othering. There is always someone who does not belong or someone who fights for belonging - as Black people have done and ironically Native Americans had to fight for their rights as the First People.
Since I was 18 I've felt what it's like to be that Other - and its an Othering with hierarchies. Being African I'm not exactly the Western world or South Africa's favorite migrant.
If race is an arbitrary marking of people, then the nation-state is an even more arbitrary definition of a people. IMO it does not adequately engage with global structures of power - instead it systematically puts people in enclaves defined by borders or citizenship.
So when DV suggests sumthin like 'We Are Americans' I don't quite get that, esp in the context of how America has historically treated its Others - within its borders and outside. International exceptionalism is how America has operated in the world so does it mean in taking on Americanness one is implicitly cool with that or resistant? (Considering that resistance means you're an anti-American American).
Domestically, suggesting nationality substitutes/co-exists with the race paradigm (and in the process forget the many ways of understanding race (& culture), not just the simplistic Black/White Native/Pilgrim binary) raises some very serious questions as to just what Americanness is.
Considering an articulation of 'Americanness' in terms of Garvey, MLK's or Malcolm X's ideas makes for interesting debate - not as put-down of one or pitting one revolutionary against the other, but as a proper, informed discussion.
For this post, I'm puzzled as to how the concepts "iAm American" and "No Such Thing As Race" square up with Garvey's "Back to Africa" and "the Black Nation" - seems to me its more of a riff off of King's dream, but much more radical.
...one
KW
I was feeling your last point on nations and the comparison to races.
I'm a bit of sci-fi nerd, although that's cooled off some in my old age. I read this series by Orson Scott Card that's a retelling of American history and events with the interjection of magic as being a real and accepted part of life. It's called the Alvin Maker series.
Anyway, slavery is a regular theme because of the setting of the books. There is a story where the protagonist, Alvin, tells of a dream he had where he was talking to God in a slaughterhouse.
On the meat hooks are humans with their bodies turned inside out and their guts and everyting showing. Just red and pink flesh.
Alvin says God is talking to some men who wanted to prevent a little black boy from attending the local public school. God tells them that the have to show him which of the bodies belong to blacks, whites, asians and native Americans. The men says they can't.
God says "So why have you been wasting all this time trying to figure it out down on my Earth?"
Same thing applies to citizenship.
;) Thanks KW and Big Man. I've nothing to add:)
Hold up, I’m getting back and ya’ll already got the credits rolling, turned the tv off, back in the kitchen pick’n over leftovers…
It’s not about Garvey’s person.
I don’t get with all his personal beliefs.
I get with the philosophy of establishing institutions.
The only argument I see challenging the ideas of institutions, is the pending threat of sabotage by our government. It is an argument that is not without inexhaustible proofs. So, if we can believe they possess the potential to be so malicious as to retaliate with such barbarous conduct (for establishing our own institutions), why is it far fetched that despite decades of resistance and protest; embarrassment on the world stage by EX-SLAVES; impeding the promulgation of their system, that these same “megalomaniac warmongers” have conceded “to the people” without intent of retaliation with a more sophisticated strategy veiled in the PC veneer of (I argue) Civil Rights, obstructing any viable solutions, and sedating the masses with a feeling of attainment? That was marathon-on sentence. Who doesn’t argue that integration destroyed community businesses?
Despite all what King is celebrated for, in his last days he told Harry Belafonte that he feared that he integrated his people into a burning house.
"obstructing any viable solutions, and sedating the masses with a feeling of attainment? " Gee Chee
SEDATING.
THE.
MASSES.
WITH.
A.
FEELING.
OF.
ATTAINMENT.
Needs to be tattooed on Negros foreheads.
"We are Americans" DV
"That is no more an illusion and ghettoized thinking than being a "Black or White group". Kay Duuub
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
Being an "American" means being a STAKEHOLDER in the wealthiest nation on the planet.
"esp in the context of how America has historically treated its Others" KW
How has America treated its Others?
Who has treated its Others better than America has treated its others?
(I'm channeling Undercover Black Man)
We built this country.
We've been here just as long if not longer than anyone else.
We built the roads, worked in the factories, smelted the steel, fought in the wars and gave this nation soul.
The blood of our people soaks this land.
A Black person casting away his American citizenship makes as much sense as a Microsoft shareholder casting away his stock.
A Black American has as much in common, if not more, with a white American than he does with a black Nigerian.
Don't believe me?
Cut ESPN on and see what they both do.
Drop a plate of processed food on the table and see who pulls up a chair.
The KKK to black folks what the Muslim/Red Scare/Inner City Crime is to our law makers.
Garvey objects to the accusations of having some working relationship with the Klan in the Philosophies and Opinions of Marcus Garvey. He argues that a group of base Negroes presented this to the attorney general and the NY Times used it to slander his organization.
Regardless, what does meeting with the Klan suggest? As Muhammad Ali pointed out before that Richard Nixon met with his enemy Chairman Mao. The NOI never had expectations for the Klan to serve up a solution to the struggles of Negroes. The NOI went and met the Klan as equals. King met the law makers trusting in a belief that there is some good that can be won over. That's the difference. Plus the Klan is not the system. King's philosophy of, "no matter what you do to us we will love you regardless" made him a good candidate to play out a scene to receive a handful of magic beans. The Klan is overt, the system is covert.
The FBI(covert) was more destructive to the Panther organization than the local police departments(overt). The concept of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" is more threatening than knowing your enemy is a wolf from jump start.
DV
"wealthiest nation on the planet"
Bra, come again, by what measure is America the wealthiest?
If it's financial that title belongs to Luxemborg, that li'l country is twice as rich as the US.
The divide between rich and poor in America is very wide...y'caaant tell me the stake held by each person is proportionate. I'd say it's disproportionate for those who built the country.
Where does America's wealth come from...things that you speak out against, now you proclaim the wealth of the Plantation is a good?
Naaaw, Bra that's steak, that's bloody pork steak you holding in your hands, steakholder.
"Who has treated its Others better than America has treated its others?
(I'm channeling Undercover Black Man)"
Lol - y'got jokes, lower your skirt, cos that is not a serious statement.
"A Black American has as much in common, if not more, with a white American than he does with a black Nigerian."
I don't know about that, it's not always true, all the time. Depends on the upbringing of the Nigerian.
But my point was shifting from calling yourself a minority to American widens the group but it essentially still functions within group identity politics and it operates on inclusion/exclusion.
If you'd said "We are People" that woulda hit home with me because Black people were fighting for their humanity and to be recognised as human beings.
No national identity, even that shared by 300 million pple, can ever mean more than what humanity means.
No national identity can confer humanity upon a people, humanity is what comes first.
What we see is the battle in the mind of the black radical autonomist. Before him is the choice between coercive integration and REAL black liberation.
How can the black man ever be free (liberated) when he MUST live in the white man's world (coercive integration)?
Interestingly, most of the liberals here WANT COERCIVE INTEGRATION. They WANT TO live in the white man's world. They love the plantation.
Konwmyn,
First, how do we know?
Second, the idea of America and Americans AS IDEAS is DEAD. The REALITY of America and Americans as concrete things is ALIVE. Blood, sweat, tears and soil are concrete things that signal REAL LIVING.
Just because YOU don't know who you are does not mean you may successfully project that mindset on others.
Thordaddy
How do we know what?
Naaaaaaw, I'm quite certain of who iAm, just posing some critical questions & sharing a different perspective which you evidently misinterpret.
Konwomyn,
How we KNOW ur Konwomyn,
Yur anti-labelism
Mite b puttin' us on, womyn...
U constituted
But dissin' The Constitution
This radical autonomy,
I gotta uh solution...
Evolution!
U must b particular
There are material realities
Even if u uh immaterialist
One capable of self-metamorphasis...
Recreate yurself
But America and Americans still exist..
Black Liberation versus Coercive Integration...
Black Liberation versus Coercive Integration...
Lack Liberation servus Coercive Integration...
Lack Liberation service Coercive Integration...
Why do liberals BOW to coercive integration?
But diss the nation?
Why do liberals, by definition liberationists, serve coercive integration?
Liberationists are BY DEFINITION supremacists and seperatists...
Anything less and they dead by the fist...
Stomped out BY THE TRADITIONALISTS...
Entrenched power, they got weakness
Immobility...
So a liberationist gotta b swift
Outfoxed the traditionalist
By claiming he don't exist...
But the liberationist don't exist, either!
There must be results to define this creature
The END GAME
Is the defining feature
IF YOU'RE LIBERATED...
Then you become the Teacher...
First lesson:
No one need listen to the Preacher...
But if he tells Truth and you listen...
You might be richer...
Integrity is never coercive
Coercive integration is richter...
Set to make things rumble...
Less we get down and fixer...
Plus the Klan is not the system.--GC
Obviously, you're not familiar governance in the Deep South during Apartheid.
The NOI went and met the Klan as equals.--GC
Equals? That is an incredible statement of historical ignorance.
The NOI went and met the Klan as equals.--GC
"Equals? That is an incredible statement of historical ignorance." Makheru Bradley
....?
Incredible statement?
Historical ignorance?
What is so "incredible" about the statement that the NOI is equal to the Klan?
Why ... Brother Makheru ... is the suggestion that the NOI is equal to the Klan ... incredible and ignorant?
Pray Tell.
For starters, please provide the number of white people the NOI lynched without ever being convicted.
Since they were “equals” please provide the NOI equivalents of Sheriff Lawrence Rainey and Deputy Cecil Price of Neshoba County, Mississippi, circa 1964.
Obviously, you're not familiar governance in the Deep South during Apartheid.
OK, the deep south is not the system.
Equals? That is an incredible statement of historical ignorance.-MB
Come on MB, if I'm arguing in favor of the NOI's ideas of institutions over Civil Rights table scraps, you think I'm equating the NOI as some terrorists organization that have some phobia of a system of white supremacy. Your job is to fill in the gaps of obvious statements.
They are equal that both accept the sovereignty of the other. Each community governs it’s own. You rule your folks, I rule mine. I know you don't like me, and I appreciate your honesty. Now I know not to trust that you are benevolent and want what's best for my people because I walked hand and hand with those that can see past race.
Understand that the idea of separate institutions doesn't eliminate the interaction between races. It means you run your own communities. Regardless the hate could only hold for so long, we didn't have to rip our communities apart because we couldn't wait for their affection. Look, integration hasn't cured lost souls like Mike Fisher. Regardless you'll have those old cobweb heads nostalgic for them old ways. Integration didn't change that, so why short change ourselves.
This makes me think about the brotha who'd won the lottery and was found dead.
We live in a homogenized world. Trade occurs between cultures. Styles, customs are adopted. Greeks take from Egyptians etc. It is the natural coarse. Civil Rights is an expedited synthetic rendering of civilization's inherent process.
"course" ...Damn gee chee Ill statement but Ill have to respectfully disagree...it's not synthetic. It's the natural course, in as such this is the 21st century... With the invention of television and the internet, Information is more readily available than ever, so it's only natural that what would once take 1000 years to implement only takes about 10...
Thor that's cute,
but...iAmWhoiAmCuzISaySo.
you n Me exist on
different planes, ratha different planets,
i'M the celestial, proverbial, gladiatorial Olmec Aztec,
Call me Omega, Matriarch of Mecca
i’M faaar too complex, I perplex simpletons,
iReject citizen redux, that’s memetic politrix
dividing, deporting, selecting then transforming denizens into citizens,
like feral eugenicists clockin' overtime
cataloguing federals from naturals,
like a human ain't natural?
no man, no law, no state can confer
my humanity, nor sovereignty,
iAm ordained by GOD.
Konwomyn,
I no u no u,
Buddat ain't duh question
U self-creatin', where's Konwomyn 2???
Maybe Konwomyn 3 or 4
U amorphous WITH UH CORE?
That's radical fo' sho'
Sum say impossible
Buttjew u puttin' onna show,
Wiff dat crazy flo'...
BUT KONWOMYN, WE JUST DON'T NO???
Who u r n y u thro'???
If u self-creatin'
HOW FAR WILL U GO?
Can u b American?
What r the limits,
Tuh ya self-creatin' shennanigans???
And if u got power of authorship...
U must write as RADICAL AUTONOMON...
Thordaddy,
This could go on n on but iAin't got time to scratch rhymes rite now, my mind's wired on sumthin else. What I'll say for now is that there are many ways of looking at citizenship and national identity.
I don't deny the power that a people can gain from articulating and identifying with nationality. I also don't dispute that on the people's terms it can mean something different to the State, but what I'm contesting is politics of citizenship and the legacy of othering it has created - as done by The State. Different classes of citizenship as DV's other post highlights, the policing of religion (i.e Gitmo) and immigration are other examples.
I'm also asking if there's a way of re-thinking national identity in an age of the post-nation, where people can collectively oppose the threat of corporations and post-nation hegemonies like the EU, UN etc.
Got alotta work to do, so I'm out.
...peace
Your job is to fill in the gaps of obvious statements. – GC
Obvious statements? I find it interesting that DV asked for a point of clarity, after which you came forth with your rebuttal. Are you guys a tag team or alter egos?
I don’t fill in gaps when someone is operating from a flawed premise—“The NOI went and met the Klan as equals.”
They are equal that both accept the sovereignty of the other.—GC
Do you really believe that? Do you think that during this timeframe when European Americans planters like John Stennis and James Eastland were heavily dependent on Afrikan American farm laborers, like Mrs. Fannie Lou Hamer, would have tolerated serious competition from the NOI? The NOI owned about 15,000 acres of farmland in four states. Eastland alone owned 5,800 acres in Sunflower County, Ms. Who do you think was poisoning the farm animals of the NOI?
Understand that the idea of separate institutions doesn't eliminate the interaction between races.—GC
That statement implies a gross misunderstanding of white supremacy. Forced segregation wasn’t as much about physical separation as it was about political control and economic exploitation. Black Nationalism ultimately represents more of a challenge to that control/exploitation than integration.
The immediate objective of the KKK, Nazi George Lincoln Rockwell (who called Elijah Muhammad the Hitler of Black people before a NOI audience), and others on the conservative and extremist ends of the White Supremacy Dynamic was to preserve American Apartheid. There is no question that they would have eventually turned on the NOI.
Brother Makheru,
With all due respect, your analysis is short sighted.
This game is 3 dimensional chess. Not checkers.
You can't seem to escape beyond the simple black v white paradigm.
The fact that millions upon millions of white PEASANTS have been robbed and exploited during this time period by a group of villains whose definition defies the overly simplistic "white" adjective attached to the powers that be seems not to have been factored into your thesis.
100 years ago the enemy of black people was not simply the KKK any more than the enemy of the American people is simply "Al Qaeda" today.
White peasants were conditioned to view black peasants as enemies.
Black peasants were conditioned to view white peasants as enemies.
It kept their attention off of the bankers who controlled the capital and engineered foreign wars.
White radicals produced the KKK ... eventually black radicals produced the NOI.
A threatened black population will beg for protection from the Plantation.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the same people financing and handling the NAACP Civil Rights Negros were financing and handling the KKK.
The meeting of these groups was a threat to the Plantation because it threatened to sabotage the false dichotomy of the Hegelian Head Fake.
DV everything MB has said is more than right. History proves his points for him. Seriously. I think that you are on a level of idealism to the extent that you can self create identity and so forth, BUT if you live in a society that practices legal aparthied, outside of your bubble you are subject tot hat screwed up system and laws can be passed to completely disenfranchise you if you are not part of the political process.
This is precisely what happened to Black people last century and yes it was due to their RACE. So even if the concept of race is stupid to you and me, nevertheless it set up real institutions of oppression. And even if you disagreed with those power structures, individually you were/are utterly powerless to stop them.
Sister Mahndisa,
With all due respect, that is bullshit.
"BUT if you live in a society that practices legal aparthied ..."
If you live in a society that practices legal multiculturalism ... you get what we have now.
A bunch of sick broke overtaxed politically impotent Plantation Negros AND Plantation Crackas completely dependent upon a "government" they do not control.
I had the misfortune of walking through a Walmart recently. White people have been just as FUCKED UP as have black people.
While they got you thinking you've been fucked up more because you are black ... they've got white people thinking they've been short-changed because they are white.
Just like you think Asians and Arabs own stores because of some Mystery government loan program only available to recent ethnic others.
You are poppin' the same shit Crackas were poppin 50 years ago.
Black people were better off before this faked forced "integration" ... and 50 year "Civil Rights" Wild Goose Chase.
The meeting of these groups was a threat to the Plantation because it threatened to sabotage the false dichotomy of the Hegelian Head Fake.-DV
That's it. Big Bad Boogie Klan. The Civil Rights ruby slippers just whisked the Klan away. What happen to all of those Civil Rights activists? Did the impregnable Klan wipe them out? What is this prophesy of doom? 400 hundred years of captivity didn’t kill us, but a struggle to develop our own institutions would have?
So, because the government will infiltrate the CRIPs and BLOODs…inflame the rivalry anytime a truce comes up, what is the suggested solution? Truce or keep fighting? If you say truce, you are objecting to your own position of how they will see us as some threat and eliminate us. The argument is, they would have wiped us out if we did not take the Civil Rights route? It doesn’t sound like disagreement, it sounds like a fear of becoming our own masters.
Sabotage is not substantial proof that institution building would have failed. Sabotage, clashes, murders (of "nigger lovers" too), BOMBINGS OF CHURCHES, waterhoses, police smashing black women in the face took place against Civil Rights protesters. Isn't that proof their intent was to wipe us out? Did it happened?
I asked before & I hope somebody will answer me now: do you think absolute non-integration could have been viable option in the US? Then & Now.
(I'm thinking in terms of Gee Chee's point abt Black resilience to sabotage.)
And since y'all have kids do they go to African-centred, intergrated or majority Black schools? Or they home schooled?
DV you say with all respect then say I'm speaking bullshit so you cannot disagree without going there? Calm down you don't have to go there with me.
You act like you can live on some island and not be subject to LAWS of the jurisdiction in which you reside. Unless you have an armory and a stored weapons cache, you cannot do that. Point blank.
I can give you a very good personal example of what I'm talking about because its apparent you don't know very much about LAWS that were passed to deliberately sabotage us. These laws were remarkably successful!
My husband's father and his family had a dream of forty acres and a mule. In the mid 70's they bought forty acres in Mariposa California. You know where that is? Right outside of Yosemite in the foothills; very beautiful. Anyway, turns out they didn't want any nigras to live in Mariosa so little by little they passed laws to disenfranchise my father in law. The land owners out there had partitioned their land and he wanted to do the same. It was legal for him to do it. Then they pulled out some old archaic law that forbade the type of land partitioning he was doing and made it illegal. Fine after fine and court case after court case, my father in law lost his land via legal terrorism.
It bothers me that your ego is so large you cannot admit that some institutions and people DO have power over you. America is supposed to be the land of the free and in principle we should be able to live and roam wherever we wish. However, there are always those who have POWER over us because they MAKE and implement LAWS.
If you own your property, there are any number of terrorist organizations on US soil that can take your land from you and you have no POWER to do anything to stop them. The IRS is one organization and the FED and big banks are another.
Remember what they did to Joe Louis? They can still do that shit to you now and to blatantly ignore these power structures to stroke your ego of independent Black thought is irresponsible.
You can talk all this talk about starting your own institutions but with what seed money? Where did the money come from to start your own business?
KW you know that separatism would never have been a viable option in the USA simply because the separate institutions did not get rid of the racial friction. Instead it caused more balkanization and anger. To this day, in Atlanta, you have tons of Black people who have their own businesses are running things etc. Go outside of the city limits and surrounding areas and you will barely see any Blacks. Where are they? STUCK in their own enclaves where they feel free, but they don't feel free outside their enclaves. I cannot imagine a life like that.
I go where I please, but bear in mind I am a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter as well.
KW my son isn't old enough to go to school but when he is, we will likely do Montessori for a while. In my neck of the woods, the overall Black population is only three percent. There aren't any All Black schools around here but even if there were, I doubt I'd send him to a school like that...but who knows? Wherever they can work with special children and have patience and love with a good curriculum is where I'd send my boy. Husband feels the same.
"The nail industry has become an easy path to success for Vietnamese Americans, who discovered they needed little training and could get by with limited English. Even before they know how to apply a top coat or scrape off calluses, Vietnamese newcomers have jobs lined up at relatives' salons. Some arrive with plans to open their own shops.
Salons across the Midwest and East Coast advertise for workers in Orange County's Vietnamese-language newspapers. Cosmetology licensing tests in California and Texas are given in Vietnamese. And the industry's trade magazine has a glossy Vietnamese-language version, VietSalon."
You can't seem to escape beyond the simple black v white paradigm.—DV
I’m not trapped by that paradigm. If you want to start a thread on class struggle in America, I’ll join that discussion. It’s DV who you can’t stay focused on the subject at hand and it’s DV who will not answer a direct question.
My focus here is on Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King, and my objective was to attack the absurdity of your supposition:
“The Plantation conditioned Negros to revere Rosa Parks, MLK & Brown v Board ... while disparaging Marcus Mosiah Garvey Jr., ... for a reason.”
The real plantation negroes are those who have eyes, but they can’t see that the enemies of Afrikan liberation made no distinction between Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and Martin King, in their efforts to neutralize them.
DV is flip-flopping more that a fish on a hook.—Big Man
The fact that millions upon millions of white PEASANTS have been robbed and exploited … DV
How is that related to the Black Nationalism of Marcus Garvey?
White peasants were conditioned to view black peasants as enemies.—DV
If you want to discuss Bacon’s Rebellion and its aftermath, start a thread.
The argument is, they would have wiped us out if we did not take the Civil Rights route?--GC
Whose argument is that? I’m simply refuting your statement: “The NOI went and met the Klan as equals.”
But if you think Civil Rights was a gift, tell that to the families of: George Lee, Lamar Smith, John Earl Reese, Herbert Lee, Roman Ducksworth, Medgar Evers, Addie Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, Cynthia Wesley, Virgil Ware, Louis Allen, Henry Dee, Charles Moore, Mickey Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, James Earl Chaney, Jimmie Lee Jackson, James Reeb, Viola Liuzzo, Oneal Moore, Jonathan Daniels, Sammy Younge, Jr., Vernon Dahmer, Benjamin Brown, Samuel Hammond, Delano Middleton, and Henry Smith.
"the enemies of Afrikan liberation made no distinction between Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X and Martin King, in their efforts to neutralize them." MB
That is silly.
They financed King, the NAACP, The Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the ENTIRE Civil Rights Movement.
That is a Fact.
Is it not Makheru Bradley?
_____ Yes?
or
_____ No?
THAT is enough DISTINCTION to end that particular facet of this conversation right now.
Did the "enemies" of "Afri"k"an liberation give a DIME to Garvey's movement?
No.
The "Enemies" of African Liberation CREATED the Civil Rights Movement.
For ... A ... Reason.
I submit Mister Bradley ... that the "enemies" of African Liberation weren't thinking about "African Liberation".
You seem to have a difficult time appreciating the fact that the enemies of "African Liberation" were in fact the enemies of Humanity itself.
Regardless of the skin color of any particular humans.
"DV is flip-flopping more that a fish on a hook." —Big Man
Big Man says that every time his 'Middle for the sake Middle' paradigm is challenged and stretched.
The fact that millions upon millions of white PEASANTS have been robbed and exploited … DV
"How is that related to the Black Nationalism of Marcus Garvey?" MB
It changes the game.
It demonstrates that merely thwarting "African liberation" was not the objective of the powerful forces with which Garvey contended.
These people were the enemies of Human Liberation - white and black alike.
The encroaching enslavement of white Americans along with every other ethnic American is evidence of it.
MB,
Let's say you've recounted history with the most precision. We know this because you make use of a global communications platform.
So how are we going to know when you've been liberated?
Define the paradigm?
Tell us how you'll shine?
Right now, you might be a good historian, but are you free and are your history lessons helping you be more free?
There is this theory...
MB b mo' free,
TD b mo' free,
That's y I dig Supremacy,
Butt MB n2 equality...
That makes me wonder?
How free MB wanna b???
If he's ANTI-Supremacy...
No chance tuh b uh real O.G.
And even if Old Gramps
Don't have those inclinations,
YZ hatin' on otha nuckas
Talkin' 'bout buildin' new nations?
They financed King, the NAACP, The Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the ENTIRE Civil Rights Movement. That is a Fact.- DV
Whomever “they” are in your mind (please name them); it does not disprove my point about “no distinction in terms of the neutralization” of these great Black leaders, which was carried out by the United States government.
You seem to have a difficult time appreciating the fact that the enemies of "African Liberation" were in fact the enemies of Humanity itself. – DV
I don’t have a difficult time appreciating that at all. That’s not the subject I’m focused on.
These people were the enemies of Human Liberation - white and black alike. – DV
Who are these people, and who are these paragons of human liberation who were neutralized by these enemies?
Mak B.
Don't get cute now Bra.
"The enemies of Afri"K"an Liberation" as you named them ... Created the NAACP & Financed The "Civil Rights Movement".
King was a glorified employee.
He later became disgruntled and did his own thing.
"The enemies of Afri"K"an Liberation" as you named them ... never gave Garvey or the NOI a dime. They did not create them or sustain them. They sabotaged and slandered them at every turn.
You asked for a distinction.
I've articulated the distinction 4 times in this one thread.
Now either accept or reject that distinction.
But don't act like you don't see it.
The common denominator was neutralization. DV keeps switching numerators in a vain effort to escape his flawed premise.
Previously it was: “But make no mistake about it ... Martin Luther King was ALLOWED to function in the early years.”
When I questioned, “Was Marcus Garvey ALLOWED to function in his early years,” the keyboard went silent. The latest numerator is finance which would be followed by something else. I don’t have time to chase all of these tangents brah man.
"“Was Marcus Garvey ALLOWED to function in his early years,” MB
What greater evidence of "ALLOWED" is there than ... 'to finance'?
...
...
Was King financed?
________ Yes.
Was Garvey financed?
_______ No.
= Distinction.
The difference between the two.
Was Garvey "Neutralized"?
I don't think so. I consider his movement a success.
This spirit of his Movement lives on today. Time will be the ultimate test of Garvey's effectiveness.
Was King "Neutralized"?
I think so.
He was kicked upstairs to a meaningless National Holiday. A day off from school for some people. A sale for others and his "I Have A Dream" speech (written by a Jewish cat) is put on replay.
MLK has been reduced to a book report for 5th Graders in Plantation Negro schools.
King's more relevant work (Opposition to the Vietnam War) would damn near cast him as a domestic terrorist today - is all but forgotten.
You don't hear that one on NPR.
So, no Mak B. Check your math.
My basic premise is as intact as the Great Pyramid:
There is a huge difference between Marcus and Martin.
do you think absolute non-integration could have been viable option in the US? Then & Now.-Kon
Well, as James Baldwin argued that we were already integrated. Ofcoarse that was used in his debate against Malcolm. I believe that his argument was that it is unavoidable.
MLK was actually fighting for equality. If blacks pay the same taxes that whites do, then we should benefit from the institutions we are funding. Robert Williams was cool with that part before he broke away from the NAACP.
Infact, in Monroe when Williams took over the NAACP he recruted the people (unemployed, ex-cons, poor) that the organization ignored.
I don’t believe there ever was non-integration. The issue, I believe, is how was integration given priority…
...after building infrastructures within our community or before?
A physical integration will take place regardless. There were white people who were dedicated to helping any way they could. Before "integration" as we understand it, white people and black people were already developing relationships. They didn't need laws to authenticate their humanity towards one another.
I can understand fighting to get equality so long as it does not disturb institution building within the communities. Yes, my taxes should not go to fund things that I myself can't benefit from (hint hint...sounds familiar?).
In Clarendon, South Carolina white schools were getting four to five times the funding than black schools. Black parents filed suit because funding was unequal not because they wanted to mix races. The state was willing to give funding, but the valiant NAACP leadership stepped in and “hell nawed it.” Why? “Wes wants to INTEGRATE!” What?! So in their genius they rejected the offer…regardless of what the parents wanted (EQUAL funding for black schools)
…because the NAACP defined EQUALITY as black children in an abusive environment
…interpreting institution building within the community as white imposed segregation or supporting the philosophy of Jim Crowism.
And since y'all have kids do they go to African-centred, intergrated or majority Black schools? Or they home schooled?-Kon
The school my son attends is actually majority Latino. There are quit a few blacks. It is a dual language program. Since he lives with me and not his mother I still want him to retain his mothers tongue which is Spanish. However, once 6th grade hits, he's out. Middle school is to insane. He is already responsible with homework. So I will take him out of the indoctrinating environment because that is around the age these youth begin to look for an identity.
I do have communities to plug him into which is the Warith Deen communities and some of the after school non-profit community organizations around Houston. But he will have also other schooling like boxing (like the DV action) and soccer.
When I questioned, “Was Marcus Garvey ALLOWED to function in his early years,” the keyboard went silent.-MB
That ain't the absence of key pecks you're not hearing, it's the absence of henpecked liberation you ain't trying to hear.
2. Prevent the RISE OF A "MESSIAH" who could unify, and
electrify, the militant black nationalist movement. Malcolm X might have
been such a "messiah;" he is the martyr of the movement today. Martin
Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammed all aspire to this
position. Elijah Muhammed is less of a threat because of his age. King
could be a very real contender for this position SHOULD HE ABANDON his
supposed "OBEDIENCE" to "WHITE LIBERAL DOCTRINES" (nonviolence) and embrace
black nationalism. Carmichael has the necessary charisma to be a real
threat in this way.
-F.B.I. memorandum, March 4, 1968
An obvious distinction.
Was Garvey "Neutralized"? I don't think so. I consider his movement a success.—DV
Geez, I wish you had said that from the jump. That would have saved me a lot of time and energy. We obviously have totally different concepts of neutralization.
By 1923 Garvey led an organization with 6 million worldwide members organized in branches in the Caribbean, Canada, England, throughout Latin and South America, in Afrika, and in 39 states in America. By the time of his death in London in 1940 his once vibrant organization had lost its impetus and effectiveness and had been reduced to less than 10,000 members. Garvey, like Malcolm and King was taken out of his historical development and his highly centralized organization suffered a near death blow because it was organized around Garvey’s charismatic leadership. The federal government understood that if a charismatic leader could be neutralized his entire organization and movement could be derailed.
Does Garvey’s spirit live and inspire people today? Most definitely, because the best of Garvey is a model to emulate. But Garvey’s story is one of triumph and tragedy. That’s why we have to view these great leaders from a holistic perspective, versus the fragmentation of DV.
MLK has been reduced to a book report for 5th Graders in Plantation Negro schools.—DV
Only in your mind DV. Dr. King has been read and quoted more in the last two years than anytime since the aftermath of his murder. If you take some time to get your head out of that cabbage patch, you may come to understand this.
King's more relevant work (Opposition to the Vietnam War) would damn near cast him as a domestic terrorist today - is all but forgotten. – DV
Please don’t try to project your historical amnesia on the rest of us. During the timeframe of these wars in Iraq and Af-Pak, Dr. King speeches on Vietnam are being read and quoted more than the “Dream” speech.
“He who lives with untruth lives in spiritual slavery.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
There is a huge difference between Marcus and Martin.—DV
You are forever the divider; never the synthesizer.
"By 1923 Garvey led an organization with 6 million ... 1940 his once vibrant organization had lost its impetus and effectiveness and had been reduced to less than 10,000 members." MB
Your historical perspective is sadly naive.
When Jesus traveled to Galilee, he was followed by thousands.
When he was crucified it appeared even his disciples had abandoned him.
2,010 years after his death billions evoke his name daily.
The impact of Garvey's accomplishment and the spiritual and symbolic significance of his movement will be revealed with time.
Martin Luther King Jr., was a son of God.
Yet he he was still financed by the "enemies of Human liberation."
Much of his early rhetoric was spoon fed him by Levinson.
Garvey's movement was a movement of black people financed by black people.
In this age of handkerchief head 'Affirmative Action' seeking, Plantation Negro recipients of 'National Health Care' ... don't be so eager to dismiss the significance of a black men building black institutions without the hand-holding of white liberals.
Yet he he was still financed by the "enemies of Human liberation."-- DV
Who are these enemies of human liberation? Name them.
The base of Dr. King's financial support was the Black Church. Is that institution an enemy of human liberation?
Much of his early rhetoric was spoon fed him by Levinson.-- DV
Please quote this rhetoric. I never would have imagined DV to be a mental slave of J. Edgar Hoover.
don't be so eager to dismiss the significance of a black men building black institutions without the hand-holding of white liberals.-- DV
Quote the statement where I dismissed the significance of black men building institutions. That would be extremely hypocritical for a former student at Malcolm X Liberation University.
The impact of Garvey's accomplishment and the spiritual and symbolic significance of his movement will be revealed with time.- DV
Not if we keep playing the same game of divide and conquer which contributed to the demise of Garvey.
2,010 years after his death billions evoke his name daily.-- DV
Even by people who seem to be more in the mode of Judas Iscariot.
You trying too hard not lose an argument you lost long ago MB.
Let it go.
"Divide and Conquer"?
Please.
Appreciating the difference between the institution building of the NOI & Marcus Mosiah Garvey (Big Ups Gee) and the 'Civil Rights' wild goose chase orchestrated by puppet masters like Levinson is necessary so we don't make the same mistakes again.
"Who are these enemies of human liberation? Name them. " MB
The same people feeding you GMO pork and vaccinating your children.
"When he was crucified it appeared even his disciples had abandoned him." DV
John is believed to have been there.
"The impact of Garvey's accomplishment and the spiritual and symbolic significance of his movement will be revealed with time." DV
RasTafarI overs the prophetic importance of Garvey.
The legacy of Garvey among Caribbean peoples and nations is percieved very differently to what you seem to say of Americans.
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