Adam and Eli. Same Sex Couple. Maried 11 Days. In Their 30's. Santa Monica CA. Are These People Americans?
Lloyd Blankfein and James Dimon. International Bankers. In their 50's. $100 Million Salaries & Bonuses. Government "Bailout" Recipients. On Board of Federal Reserve Bank. Are These People Americans?
45 comments:
No.
What's happening Brother Taney.
Welcome to the spot.
Why wouldn't you classify these people as "Americans"?
Of course
We are responsible for defining what being American is. Traditionally our leaders came from living rooms not boardrooms.
An All American image:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L-8aa04S5xI/S8CWrAhAckI/AAAAAAAAACk/RaNbzC_r-fg/s1600/Mount+Bumrush%27Mo.jpg
Yes they're American! If they grew up here and practice American cultural mores then they are American.
Notwithstanding KW's salient comments yesterday about the deeper meaning of 'citizenship' they are American!
These people are not Americans because the general words of the Declaration of Independence would seem to embrace the whole human family, and if they were used in a similar instrument at this day would be so understood. But it is too clear for dispute, that the African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration; for if the language, as understood in that day, would embrace them, the conduct of the distinguished men who framed the Declaration of Independence would have been utterly and flagrantly inconsistent with the principles they asserted; and instead of the sympathy of mankind, to which they so confidently appealed, they would have deserved and received universal rebuke and reprobation.
Therefore, Negroes are not and never have been intended to be Americans.
M. Ringmaiden. Looking at your picture, you are a Negro are you not? As you are a Negro you are, by definition, excluded from the term "American" and have been by the founders of our great Republic. Thus any declaration of yours that purports that you or any other Negro is American is without validity and force ab initio.
Brother Taney..things change.. this 2010 not 1830.. you talking that bullshit fam.. DV may not agree but to me, that's some plantation thinking....
Ill. Aren't you a Negro as well? If so, you are not qualified as you too have been excluded from the term "American" and have been by the founders of our great Republic. Thus any declaration of yours as well that purports that you or any other Negro is American is without validity and force ab initio.
I think you've gone off the deep end Brother Taney. You are labeling me according to the way a slave master labeled his slaves. I am American because that is how I define myself. My family on ALL sides have been here for quite some time, not to mention the Blackfoot and Choctow in my family who are Americans from the outset. We have culture and its been established here nigh five hundred years?
Get over this old school legal interpretation and analysis. It is irrational and unreasonable.
Gee-Chee said...
"We are responsible for defining what being American is."
VERY VERY VERY important to not only understand this point, but to appreciate it.
"I am American because that is how I define myself." M. Rigmaiden
Now ... THAT ... is what I'm talking about.
M. Ringmaiden, you certainly can define yourself in any way you wish. However, you are a Negro. Therefore your declaration of definition is without force. Also, the fathers of this great Republic in their majority were not owners of slaves. They still excluded the members of your wretched race. So go forth and define yourself as you will. Know, however, that your declaration as a Negro is as effective as crying out against the wind.
Drop the label African American. The label implies you are not American.
I don't care about how the Founding Fathers defined anyone. They are long dead. Their words were pretty; they had flashes of insight but were also flawed men.
Brother whoever you need Jesus.
Who uses the term Negro in the USA anymore? What obsolete bs garbage he spews!
The power of the slave owners and ruling class is that they could define who was who.
I reject that bs entirely. You have no right to define me according to your archaic whims.
Notwithstanding:
*Mahndisa and GeeChee's brilliant points
*GeeChee's majestic (!) image
*and trusting that indeed they are from America
*and not taking anyone's personal identity as American away from anyone,
...they are a Beautiful Black Couple, a Beautiful People.
...by Brother Taney's definition nobody is American other than white land owning men.
Is that about right?
I, personally, could not give a rats ass about "Founding Fathers or Framers, etc". They were men. Some with agendas. Some with good intent, some with questionable. They were intelligent, but NOT the most brilliant men who have ever lived, they are not gods (though they've essentially have been deified), and they are not infallible...as many changes in the Constitution may attest.
And, yeah, what's all this categorizing Brother Taney? I'll give you the benefit that you are trying to make a point.
No Mr. DMG. The exclusion from the term "American" applies only to the members of the African race and their descendants. Take the Indian of this country, for example. The Indian, it is true, formed no part of the colonial communities, and never amalgamated with them in social connections or in government. But although they were uncivilized, they were yet a free and independent people, associated together in nations or tribes, and governed by their own laws. Many of these political communities were situated in territories to which the white race claimed the ultimate right of dominion. But that claim was acknowledged to be subject to the right of the Indians to occupy it as long as they thought proper, and neither the English nor colonial Governments claimed or exercised any dominion over the tribe or nation by whom it was occupied, nor claimed the right to the possession of the territory, until the tribe or nation consented to cede it. These Indian Governments were regarded and treated as foreign Governments, as much so as if an ocean had separated the red man from the white; and their freedom has constantly been acknowledged, from the time of the first emigration to the English colonies to the present day, by the different Governments which succeeded each other. Treaties have been negotiated with them, and their alliance sought for in war; and the people who compose these Indian political communities have always been treated as foreigners not living under our Government. It is true that the course of events has brought the Indian tribes within the limits of the United States under subjection to the white race; and it has been found necessary, for their sake as well as our own, to regard them as in a state of pupilage, and to legislate to a certain extent over them and the territory they occupy. But they may, without doubt, like the subjects of any other foreign Government, be naturalized by the authority of Congress, and become citizens of a State, and of the United States; and if an individual should leave his nation or tribe, and take up his abode among the white population, he would be entitled to all the rights and privileges which would belong to an emigrant from any other foreign people.
Not so the Negro.
So Brother Taney, how do you explain Obama? Doesn't the same constitution that you say purposefully excludes black people from being considered american also specify that to be president, one must be an American citizen?
Obama is easily explained. He is not a Negro as he is of European descent.
lol, you ignorant, idiotic jiggaboos have no idea who Taney was.., do you?
^^ So ....
What's the significance of that Mike?
"lol, you ignorant, idiotic jiggaboos have no idea who Taney was.., do you?"
LOL... damn son why the ad hominem? :). I don't care who he is. That dood has about as much influence of how I define myself as Judge Judy Replying to you, Johnny and Sister "Tame me", would be like debating with a slug. I wouldn't know where to begin. Ill hit you with this, America is an ideal. It's not what Judge Paleface or Taney or any of those dead muffuggas wrote with their gay fountain pens or decreed with their thin bloody lips... they are dirt now, that in which I tread upon and if I can't find a bathroom, Those of whom I piss upon. Listen my sons...Most of which makes this country great and positive have come from "Negros". From the Cowboy to Jazz to Rock and Roll, to Vaudeville Dance Im talking about ART, IDEAS, CULTURE MUSIC memes Im talking humanity, you're talkin'. HATE exclusion mandates War Greed. A lower form of being.
Congratulations on straining to resuscitate some pre-modern world laws subsequent to black officers serving in the Civil War (which is not permitted for non-US citizens), on top of that a black majority in the South Carolina Legislature.
A country with laws on the books like:
-illegal to play dominoes on Sunday
-Putting salt on a railroad track punishable by death
-offense to throw pickle juice on a trolley
-a person must own two cows in order to legally wear cowboy boots in public
-illegal to set a mousetrap without a hunting license etc...
...and you argue some archaic law from a time when a large number of American colonists could not read or write because in European cultures that was reserved for wealthy males.
Anyway, obviously you realized your point of Obama being a "non-Negro" of European descent was a comment of someone who functions on a delusional plain, disregarding a rich American history of rape. Because of this guilt of chasing black tail, disregarding their own wives and "purity of the white race", has evolved into spewing white tales with the sexualization and tabooization of the black male, hence the lynching the black libido by noose or news.
Damn Ill ... Gee Chee.
Ya'll stomped Mike Fisher a new asshole.
Why'd I think the "...," and classic sarcasm was possibly CNu trying to hip y'all to where B.Taney gets his idiotic views from?
Guess I was wrong.
Anyway Judge Taney's judgement in the Dred Scot case meant Blacks were not US citizens and were unrecognised by the Constitution. As a kind of 'reversal' of this decision (plus other factors), the Civil Rights Act in the 1860s and the 14th Ammendenment was passed by Congress.
It is what it is DV... but yeah these cats are americans.
Damn Gee Chee that is an ILL piece scholar...
DV yeah the guys are citizens. Why wouldn't they be?
That talk about Obama not being Black is hilarious lolololololol heheheheheheheheh! Obviously this tragic personage does not know about the one drop rule. For God's sake Obama is half AFRICAN! Sometimes, the silliness of this whole affair is astounding!
Good ol' one drop. Let's not forget that by the one-drop rule, Obama would not be our first, but actually at least our 5th or 6th Black President. Calvin Coolidge, anyone?
For what it's worth, both of these couples are Americans, but as I think M. said earlier in the comments somewhere, more importantly, they're all HUMANS. I think we really do need to start with that, the dignity of human individuals, period. From there, we can go to the American thing, insofar as the ideals, albeit inconsistently and hypocritically applied throughout its history, was an innovation of the American idea that still may make it worth trying to keep alive, even if it needs be brought into balance.
Obama fortunately has got more African blood than me... and Im 100 percent Black...
My, my. Such anger. Truth hurts?
Not at all Brother Taney, where do you detect anger?
^^^ Further, what "truth" do you perceive yourself to have arrived at? After the "Obama is of European descent" thing, your credibility is about as suspect as David Duke at an NOI meeting.
Why are you all continuing to bother with Taney? He's just a agent provocateur. I realized his game, one post too late. Perhaps he is one of the regulars trying to stir things up, under an alternate alias (like MOTI has suggested). Either way, there's nothing he can say that are worthy further keystrokes from me.
@ DMG
True...
I use the words negro and colored quite often in my commentaries, TV show and dialouge...I do agree to that I define me not others..
What's happening Thrasher?
I owe you a couple of replies from last week.
You put up some good stuff.
Yeah ... "Negro" ... is often quite apropos.
Mr. Ill. Why so recalcitrant? Is Mr. Obama not descended from a long line of Europeans via his mother?
If these people are born on the North, Central or South American continent, including the Caribbean they are American. The question is are they U.S. citizens of some type? Legally, (Black's Law Dictionary 4th edition) Negro has nothing to do with race, but more to do with one that is owned as chattel property, not one's race.
Brother Taney, looked at M.Rigmaiden's pix and concluded she is a Negro, based on her physical appearance. A mistake. Certainly, Moors (Black people) at the time of the writing of the Constitution, some, were included as and,or aforded the same rights as "Americans" (Moorish Sundry Act of 1789) but, more accurately citizens, and yet many if not most would have had the same physical features as M.Rigmaiden or any person we would label African today.
Just call it a fit of "train wreck syndrome" morbid curiosity, Run DMG. :)
You couldn't even bring yourself to spell Married correctly with Adam and Eli huh?
You're too much DV.
LOL!
Ensayn1,
Are you referring to the Moors Sundry Act of 1790? Don't think that referred to people born in the Americas.
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