(heavy negro voice)
The hopes ...
The dreams ...
The aspirations of a people ...
Tuh go tuh a college dey can't afford.
Why?
The dreams ...
The aspirations of a people ...
Tuh go tuh a college dey can't afford.
Why?
Black people have earned over 30,000,000 college degrees since the 1920's.
That's about $300,000,000,000 dollars in tuition payments.
What black people owe in student loans and interest payments could purchase Standford University straight out.You know what we could have done with that money? How much land that could have purchased? How many farms? How many corner Bodegas? How many furniture stores? How many restaurants? How many trucking companies? ... How many schools could have been purchased? How many professors hired?
Her Side said...
Funny I should stop here today and see this. GMA did a 2-day special on unschooling. Parents essentially register their children with the state as homeschooled, but allow their children free reign to decide what interests them - from what they read to how they spend their own time each day.I am personally fascinated by this subject, because I have serious objections to what I have observed as "education" from grade school to college. I am a college graduate, but I have learned so much more from "educational opportunities" that I seek on my own. I am known as an expert in some areas because my self-education left me with a much broader knowledge base and the ability to solve problems outside the box - the same box that many formally educated folks can't think themselves out of.
I recently met a black man with 3 sons. He said he refuses to send any of them to college. As an entrepreneur, he said he will start a different business for each son and hand over that business after high school graduation.
I apologize this is getting long, but this topic recently exploded in my life. I have two sons, and the youngest (10) is an unbelievably intelligent free thinker. I went to a parent-teacher conference where the teachers noted his intellect, but went on to basically criticize him for 'not giving them the answers they wanted to hear.' I refuse to raise a robot, so I have a serious dilemma with this son who I constantly encourage to keep the creative juices flowing. Dammit, he composes written contracts and produces his own made-for-TV shows without having ever seen a written contract.
I must conclude before I crash the server. LOL I see the value of education for the foundation it provides. Everybody needs to know that 2+2=4 or they won't survive. But I believe the current system of education in the US is a HUGE cancer to natural, God-given, true creativity.
I have more to say about forcing kids into college, but I believe I hit my character limit. hehe
60 comments:
Off topic, but Stanford is one of the most beautiful campuses in the country. Thanks for the picture. Finished High School across the street.
I understand the argument of going to college and studying something...well, not very useful. Quite frankly my argument against a "Black Studies" major (minor sure, but hell you could learn all about that in your spare time...agreed?).
You might be surprised, but I don't think college is for everybody. If you don't have a post degree plan (or even idea...) maybe you should save your money, and invest in a business like MOTI says...but since most folks (black, white, blue) I know didn't have that kind of money up front, but relied on grants, loans, and scholarships, the point is moot.
But your argument doesn't make much sense anyway. How many people do you know really want to farm? Or own a business? I'd just as soon pull my eyes out before I became a business owner. Hell, I've never even been interested in private practice. I don't want to personally deal with payroll, bill paying, collections. Just doesn't turn me on. Despite all of your assertions otherwise...I really don't care about money. I just really like what I do for a job.
And why do you assume any of that would automatically stay in the "black community"?
How long are you going to stay on this, buy our own little corner and huddle together meme? Just curious.
^^ See how a Plantation education makes one think?
...you mean critically?
Let me ask you a few questions.
1. Did you go to college?
1a. If not did you spend your college money buying a farm?
1b. If you did go, what did you study?
2. Will you send your kids to college?
2a. If yes, will you let them study whatever subject they want?
2b. If no, will you buy them a farm?
Simple, yes or no questions. Don't need any explanations.
^^ See how a Plantation education makes one think?
...you mean critically?
No. Like an employee.
Maybe money and being HNIC is your motivation. It's not mine.
I chose my profession because it was one of two I would do for free. Who cares if I own the business or not? I actually don't WANT to leave anything to kids or grandkids. Let them learn to fend for themselves, to stay hungry.
I don't need the incentive of a paycheck to wake up early in the morning. I have loved EVERY day of my career...even when I've been dead tired, unappreciated, and away from my family for days on end.
My temple is the OR. I bow my head with a scalpel in my hand. In my opinion there's no better job. I'll have to be dragged out of the OR for them to get me to retire.
I only hope that you feel the same way about your job.
I feel sorry for you if you don't.
Now, if you don't mind...can you answer the questions?
Damn Doc.
You really dumbing down the discourse.
If you don't mind.
Let Cadeveo or Mak B or Big Man or TD or Kay Dub or That Dude or Sista Kit or Mahndisa or my girl Mahogany or anyone else with a dynamic intellect and no axe to grind take it from here.
Ma Good Ole' Boys Taney, Bull Connor, an' Georgie Wallace done tol' me 'bout this Magic Negro over yonder. With more lovable darkies like this there ma pappy wouldn'a had to pass this law:
"And whereas the having of slaves taught to write, or suffering them to be employed in writing, may be attended with great inconveniences; Be it enacted, that all and every person and persons whatsoever, who shall hereafter teach, or cause any slave or slaves to be taught to write, or shall use or employ any slave as a scribe in any manner of writing whatsoever, hereafter taught to write; every such person and persons shall, for every such offence, forfeit the sum of £100 current money."
I just LOVE this Negro, too.
I could write random letters and not dumb down the discourse anymore at your spot. You are really slipping lately. Throwing in with folks who are clearly mentally ill, and random wannabe B-boys.
And that's not even counting YOUR usual nonsense. If you want to sit around and stroke each others egos, and talk shit about higher education, be my guest...just be honest about it. I'm here to provide counter point.
Actually, not a bad list...except for two names. But, if you are trying to hurt my feelings, you'll have to try ALOT harder than that.
Answer the very simple questions I posed. What's it gonna hurt? Let's just start off with the first one. Did you go to college...?
Not trying to hurt your feelings Doc.
I like you more than you realize.
You've been extremely helpful to me.
But honestly, you are not a particularly innovative thinker.
You just defend the status quo ... whatever it is.
Whatever the CDC says.
Whatever the NAACP says.
Whatever the Plantation says.
You adopt an antagonistic pose to disguise the fact you really don't have anything thoughtful to add to the conversation.
Every time I engage you I feel like Muhammad Ali fighting Floyd Patterson ... for the 17th time.
And I'm getting tired of jabbin' you in the head Floyd.
So let's try again DMG.
This piece isn't about you. It's not about me.
It's an examination of propaganda targeting black people and consumed by black people.
I'm interested in who produced this? What was their goal. Did they achieve it?
What other types of propaganda did we consume to arrive at our core values? Shouldn't we examine that propaganda and those values too?
What if the meme was switched from simply ... "go to college" ... to "Work For Yourself ... A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Waste"?
Or "Eat Natural Foods ... Because Diabetes Will Fuck You Up"
Anyway D. Thinking out of the box is not your forte. No harm intended. But let Gee Chee or Bra Wax or Grey Con or UglyBlackJohn or Sasha or somebody not afraid to ... think ... take it from here.
Cool?
My man.
Actually MOTI,
You have got it completely wrong. I don't defend the status quo. I'm here to help you with your argument. Seriously.
If you can't get past me (and let's be real, despite all of your bluster, you can't truly lie to yourself), how do you expect to take your argument beyond the confines of this blog?
I point out the gaping holes in your logic. Let me ask you. Do you REALLY want to get your message out?
If so, you need to switch up your game. If someone like me can, so easily, and daily kick you in the nuts, how do you think you'll fair against some REALLY sharp brother who doesn't type on a blog for sport?
Think about that.
Let's see, you say things like this:
"Black people have earned over 30,000,000 college degrees since the 1920's.
That's about $300,000,000,000 dollars in tuition payments."
Let's assume that your numbers are correct. You make a great leap in logic from there that black folks had this much disposable income to spend on growing businesses etc. You clearly neglected to include in your figure loans from the government, scholarships and grants for the specific purpose of ATTENDING a University.
So the first problem with your post is that this income would not have been available for buying farms and Bodegas.
You don't think your posts through. You are sloppy with details and facts. If we switched places for a day, I'm SURE I could post something as equally outlandish, but would have facts and figures to back my assertions...tweaked appropriately to cover up my falsehoods.
What I'm saying is...you ain't as creative as you think.
While you think you are pounding away at me, I'm yawning and folding clothes, correcting my sons homework, reviewing the OR schedule, patient charts, putting the finishing touches on a powerpoint for tomorrows Critical Care Fellows conference, and organizing how I'll spend some grant money that came my way. In otherwords...my full attention isn't on your post. If I can find the holes so easily...don't you think you should put some more work in?
I mean, wasn't your FIRST sentence
"The hopes ...The dreams ...The aspirations of a people ...Tuh go tuh a college dey can't afford."
So if they can't afford college, what gives you the idea they have enough disposable income to afford a farm?
I know these are just details, you may have neglected. And you are trying to make the provocative point that college is overrated. I get that. It's your opinion that Universities should be big job training centers, rather than learning for the sake of learning. Fine. Or that some folks waste alot of money for a piece of paper instead of investing in something that will advance the family, or black people. I got it. It's all been said before. But coupled with other statements you've made over the months, I can't help but get a sense that you have great disdain for higher learning, science, medicine, and facts in general. I still haven't figured out why yet.
Oh yeah, there are many things that one may consider "out of the box", per se, unfortunately not all of them clever.
"If you can't get past me"
ROFLMAO
OK.
Good one man.
That's hilarious.
Let get me to bed. I can't even finish reading after that.
Funny I should stop here today and see this. GMA did a 2-day special on unschooling. Parents essentially register their children with the state as homeschooled, but allow their children free reign to decide what interests them - from what they read to how they spend their own time each day.
I am personally fascinated by this subject, because I have serious objections to what I have observed as "education" from grade school to college. I am a college graduate, but I have learned so much more from "educational opportunities" that I seek on my own. I am known as an expert in some areas because my self-education left me with a much broader knowledge base and the ability to solve problems outside the box - the same box that many formally educated folks can't think themselves out of.
I recently met a black man with 3 sons. He said he refuses to send any of them to college. As an entrepeneur, he said he will start a different business for each son and hand over that business after high school graduation.
I apologize this is getting long, but this topic recently exploded in my life. I have two sons, and the youngest (10) is an unbelievably intelligent free thinker. I went to a parent-teacher conference where the teachers noted his intellect, but went on to basically criticize him for 'not giving them the answers they wanted to hear.' I refuse to raise a robot, so I have a serious dilemma with this son who I constantly encourage to keep the creative juices flowing. Dammit, he composes written contracts and produces his own made-for-TV shows without having ever seen a written contract.
I must conclude before I crash the server. LOL I see the value of education for the foundation it provides. Everybody needs to know that 2+2=4 or they won't survive. But I believe the current system of education in the US is a HUGE cancer to natural, God-given, true creativity.
I have more to say about forcing kids into college, but I believe I hit my character limit. hehe
Okay, Kit here, and this time I'm gonna switch up a bit.
First, what is MOTI? I googled and checked urbandictionary, and came up with nada.
Secondly, DV, I'd really like you to answer DMG's questions in the 3rd comment. They're not unreasonable, and I want to know myself.
Next, DMG has good points about being a business owner isn't for everyone. Politics aside, DMG, you sound like a damn good doctor.
DV, you are equally correct in implying that blacks, en masse, would have more control as business owners. As a given, the small ones in black neighborhoods would most likely hire a majority of black employees.
This would keep the money recycling in the black community longer than it does now. We get paid by white owned companies, and as consumers, we immediately blow it at stores, rent, on a interest-heavy mortgage or credit card repayment to banks. Because of direct deposit and credit cards, cash barely touches our hands before it's gone for many of us.
Neither of you mentioned owning land. The philosophies of both of you can be implemented by a bright student getting a degree, working as an employee, and instead of living a hedonistic consumer lifestyle, skip the luxuries and buy property... well, maybe not now since the housing burst, but you get my drift.
I do think black kids need a lot of guidance when choosing a post high school degree. There are a lot of fly by night schools that will charge $14K to become a "certified medical assistant".
My own son has a friend who's in such a program and he was interested since it includes getting GED. I checked. This place doesn't even have the tuition cost on their website. I found out through a lucky call and got a temp to tell me the price.
Later, the "Admissions" person called to recruit my kid. They gave me the run around about how "everyone's tuition is different" based on their income and the loans and grants they can get. I lied and told her I was paying cash and heard it was $14K. She said this was true. I cussed that bitch out for being party to ripping off unknowing black kids and sending them into to debt so they could learn how to change bed pans and take blood pressure.
Personally, I loved college, so much that I got a Master's degree. What I learned there I could have never gotten on my own. Ideas were introduced to me that I never thought about, and I learned I could do some things well that I couldn't in high school, particularly math and history which bored me to tears in high school. It's only because some of these college classes were requirements to my major that I did.
It's like, how do you know what you don't know? How do you find answers if you don't even know the questions to ask?
There are some good teachers on the web, like this guy who does the Khan Academy on YouTube. Unfortunately, these compete with Internet Crack and other forms of entertainment.
Well, this comment is too long, lol. I'll stop now.
"I am personally fascinated by this subject, because I have serious objections to what I have observed as "education" from grade school to college." Her Side
That's a courageous observation HS.
As you can see from the propaganda in the above video ... college, like "the Civil Rights Movement", is another institution black people were conditioned to consider sacrosanct.
Even questioning its relative value can make people uneasy.
Understandably so.
Most people still equate college with "education" itself.
Which is why we have so many college graduates who are not particularly well educated.
Yeah, they can argue.
But they can't think.
"Next, DMG has good points about being a business owner isn't for everyone. " KIT
Actually Sista Kit.
That's not a good point.
"Being for everyone" is besides the point.
We are comparing and contrasting the relative values of different group empowerment strategies.
In this case the College / Employee strategy vs. the Commerce / Owner strategy to group empowerment.
From the Asians to the Italians to the Arabs to the Jews to the West Indians the strategy of choice was Commerce / Ownership.
Negros as a group have committed to the College / Employee / Government Dependence route as if it were a religion.
Business, land, and capital can be passed from one generation to another.
Jobs cannot be passed from father to son or from mother to daughter.
The opportunity for the accumulation of wealth over generations (real empowerment) can only come when people invest their capital in wealth creating vehicles ... not paper degrees.
DV,
I think in regards to our entire Education, we have abandoned our own responsibility to educate our kids and turned it over to an "OC-CULT SYSTEM OF SATURN(EL)."
Say Whaaaat........
Hey if you can go Harry Potter :)....
BTW, why do we covet that Damm degree?????
Yeah DV, I got to go Matrix (Morpheus) for a few minutes and explain why we covet this sick Satanic (your words) system of bringing up our kids in the same 12 steps(12 grades) program of irresponsibility.
Did you know the city of Rome was originally known as Saturnia or City of Saturn(EL) and that the Roman Catholic church retains much of the "Saturn worship" in its rituals into our Educational system that we have in place today?
Schools and the Cult of Saturn(EL).
DV, when you graduate from high school you come out processionally with a black robe, which is black for Saffron, the God of the Hebrews, requiring that you wear the square mortarboard on top of your head(the square is the cube of Saturn(Black Sun(see Mecca))). The square mortarboards are, of course, used by the Freemasons for their plaster, and also another reason why you wear a square mortarboard when you graduate, ultimately becoming an Alumni. It all has to do with Freemasonry; it all has to do with the control of education in this country.”
Astrology Brah....
First you pay out your “tuition” to get into “universe”ity where they strip you of your Intuition and give you an Indoctrination. Then you receive a “MaStars” Masonic “degree,” while wearing a Masonic mortar board cap and Cult of Saturn black robes to become an Alumni/Illumini. Graduation means to increment or retard progress.
“the true meaning of Graduation is gradual indoctrination.”
Indeed.
Stick a bunch of 5 year olds in a room full of 5year olds for a year, then a bunch of 6year olds with 6year olds and so on for 20 years, until you’re so indoctrinated they give you a doctorate.
The syllables are Mafor measure and Storfor Star. ‘measurer of the stars,’ namely an astrologer. Children are still given a star today for successful application to their studies. When we matriculate from a university, we are given a ‘Master’s Degree.’ This is purely sabean. Degrees are part of the cycle of the zodiac. One was given a ‘degree,’ to show that they, like the sun they were progeny of, had ascended to an exalted place. Once you had mastered the stars you were then quite literally a MASTER.”
Every day all over the world, millions of bright young minds are spending the best years of their lives being herded around by governments like cattle, responding to bells, whistles and other Pavlovian/Skinnerian conditioning. Millions of children are locked into this program Monday to Friday from 9-5 performing boring/arduous tasks against their will because society has deemed it necessary. Just like the workplace, only unquestioning compliance is rewarded and your only reprieves are snack breaks and lunch time, which are withheld from you like salivating dogs until the bell rings. Meanwhile they anxiously sit in rigid rows all facing the big boss and the blackboard, focused on fantasy objectives, conditioned to view other students as competitors and hindrances.
cont-
Remember this in regards to your wolf video below:
“Men had better be without education than be educated by their rulers.” –Thomas Hodgskin, 1823
What have we be doing in regards to Education???
In 1840... ...The Connecticut census showed only 1 of every 579 people was illiterate.
Over a century and a half later in 1993, the National Adult Literacy Survey reported that 1 in every 5 Americans was illiterate!
For decades children in US schools have been given daily fluoride packets and told to swish it around their mouths for 3 minutes at the beginning of every school day.
So under the guise of helping our children’s teeth, the Saturn(Nazi)-tested intellect suppressant is swished around every morning before the day’s indoctrination lessons.
Then in the afternoon it’s caffeine and aspartame time with sodas. Coca-Cola ... contains so much sugar/aspartame that they have to cut the taste with phosphoric acid so you won’t gag. In other words, they purposely load it with sugar/artificial sweetener for the drug effects, not for taste. Then they “balance it out” by adding a dangerous acid, large amounts of which cause health problems like osteoporosis.
Before the 1990s, only 1 in every 10,000 children was diagnosed with autism.
Nowadays over 1 in every 150 children born in America comes down with autism, and each time it’s those children who have been “immunized” who begin having seizures or start mentally going downhill right after vaccinations that is needed in order to attend the school.
EL is the God Saturn. So as you get El- lavated and EL ected to become an EL ite via their Education System, just learn what is behind what you covet. Oh, EL is in your court systems, your political systems, your religious systems. That right have a laugh at my expense- call me nutty. That is what the system is designed to do. Why in the world would you want to learn or have your kids learn from this EL system?
Much love to the Black Pope.
Much love to Isis- Amen Ra- and EL (Is-ra-el).
(sarcasm)
Oh yeah one last message from the great deceiver: "Be careful what you covet, I am really good :)"
Oh, I think you know I spoke of individuals in groups, as well as the entire group.
Not everyone can or should run a business, but every group has enough people in it to run enough well to keep the money recycling within a community.
Dang, did you actually read my comment? And what's up with ducking DMG's question?
I'll bet if your son dropped out of high school you'd have a heart attack... unless you're wealthy enough that it doesn't matter. And, as smart as you are, I'll bet you'd like to see him go to college. I don't know him, but I hope he does for the experience along with learning some things that might not occur to him to want to learn otherwise. He'll make some friends, too, that might be life long, especially if he goes to a HBCU.
Your daughter, I don't know, since you once said you thought the young ladies should marry early. I'll bet she has a good mind though and can get a scholarship or two. If she loves learning, that might be the spot for her.
I'm thinking now that if your the bottom line is for folks to just make money for empowerment, one can sell tee shirts on the street or set up a dollar store or rib shack and mark up the prices by 50%.
But this choice doesn't nourish the soul of the intellect.
I ask, is one of the unintended consequences of pursuing black empowerment a deeper push toward worshiping the almighty dollar?
And secondly, a very different question: If/when currency collapses next year as even some of the mainstream are finally beginning to hint at, cash as we know it may be worthless. Then what?
DV said:
From the Asians to the Italians to the Arabs to the Jews to the West Indians the strategy of choice was Commerce / Ownership.
Negros as a group have committed to the College / Employee / Government Dependence route as if it were a religion.
This is some ridiculous bullcrap.
I am sad that you are pushing this meme.
Once again, I think you are keeping some horrible company.
Neither my grandpops or great-grandpops finished the eight grade.
Great grandpops had 150 acres when he died. Grandpops when and got 50 on his own. Both of them worked for themselves for most of their lives, and their families are full of folks who had their own businesses and land.
Are their some black folks trapped in the "employee/dependence" model? Sure.
But there are thousands more hustling, owning businesses, running side hustles and scrapping to make it everyday. And they've been around for centuries.
If black folks truly depended on the government for our survivial, we would have been eliminated years ago. If we honestly didn't understand that it's better to be the boss, than be the employee, we would have never advanced as far as we have.
It's a damn shame when a man ignores reality to make a point.
The only thing I can chock DVs myopia up to is where he might live Big Man. Going to high school in Modesto back in the day, I saw almost no examples of Black commerce except two hair salons in town and well churches. It would be easy to think that Blacks aren't into owning their own stuff if you grew up in certain parts of California.
When I went to Atlanta many years ago I thought I was in the twighlight zone seeing all those Black businesses and damner everyone you'd meet on the street was college educated! That was a good thing but just as you saw Marcus Garvey in your schools and learned about him. I saw a picture and anything else learned was from my parents.
Perhaps perspectives are tainted by location. And I don't know where you live Big Man but wherever it is it sounds like Black people there are empowered.
Did anyone notice "HELP KEEP COLLEGE COSTS DOWN"?
Notice when HEALTH CARE got too expensive the establishment powers went after those who they called "Money Changers".
When it comes the tuition increases that keep people out of college - this same government SUBSIDIZES the money paid into the system.
Why is this?
QUESTION - Who was the current President of the United States' #1 campaign contributor?
ANSWER: The University of California System
"This is some ridiculous bullcrap. I am sad that you are pushing this meme. Once again, I think you are keeping some horrible company.
Neither my grandpops or great-grandpops finished the eight grade." Big Man
Brother Big Man, your capacity to misunderstand seems to know no bounds.
Do you make up your mind to misinterpret before you even read the post?
You said your GREAT grandfather ... and then your GRAND father owned land without having finished the 8th grade?
EXACTLY.
The "Civil Rights Movement" ... Big Man ... was a product consumed by your father's generation and by your generation.
They were fed a meme which portrayed the owning land and farming as virtually slavery. (LOOK AT THE VIDEOS AGAIN)
Your Great grandfather and your Grandfather were PRE-CIVIL RIGHTS Big Man ...
Damn man. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
Mahndisa I don't need obscure reminders of black commerce. I come from a family that has been involved in commerce for generations. From construction to real estate to numbers runners.
Fuck a Civil Rights.
"Mahndisa I don't need obscure reminders of black commerce. I come from a family that has been involved in commerce for generations. From construction to real estate to numbers runners."DV
DV your capacity to misunderstand knows no bounds. I wasn't really directing that comment to you but I don't think I was referencing anything obscure either.
Good that your family has a history of starting businesses and working in commerce.
They wouldn't have been successful unless they had the foundational knowledge to RUN a business, to COUNT numbers and do their figuring. I don't know what educational levels in your family were like but those who were successful had to learn how to do their figuring from somewhere!
"The only thing I can chock DVs myopia up to is where he might live Big Man." MR
What did I misunderstand?
Actually Mandisa, people learn business ... in business.
Not in college.
Just like they learn farming on farms.
Not in the classroom.
Please don't mistake an examination of the real value of attending college vs. the perceived and sentimental value as a devaluation of learning all together.
KIT,
MOTI is my term for our host. As you've probably noticed I refuse to call him by the slave name given to Telemaque...or even the initials. MOTI stands simply for "Man On The Internet", because he's obviously is not the "blackest" as he likes to claim. Hope that clears things up.
Has he answered my question yet? He's good at ducking and dodging.
How do people become scientists without formal training? Where do they get the foundational knowledge? Business begets business true. But can the same be said for medical professionals? Even in the naturopathic world ND's need schooling.
KIT I didnt' see your comment earlier. You ask salient questions and I think you hit the point. The human soul gains happiness in different ways and for some commerce is necessary for them to flourish while for others, freedom to explore ideas and application of said ideas in a lab more suits their fancy. Nourishing the mind for some is what makes their world go round. So just as I've said that dietary dogma is inapplicable to everyone eg. Me having oral allergy syndrome cannot consume a raw vegan diet...same can be said for education and how we pursue it.
And I will say that our public schools need to be radically revamped and what we end up with should be a cross between the IDEAL conventional school and the Unschooling referenced earlier. Dan Pink's TED talk about this last year brings the point home.
"while for others, freedom to explore ideas and application of said ideas in a lab more suits their fancy. " MR
Good point.
But good luck to anyone hoping to achieve "freedom to explore ideas" as an employee.
And please don't advise children that they can find fulfillment as an employee.
College prepares people for a business model that no longer exists.
DMG said...
"KIT,
MOTI is my term for our host. As you've probably noticed I refuse to call him by the "
LOL.
Sista Kit. Remember when Ali fought Ernie Terrel?
Ernie Terrel refused to call Muhammad Ali by his chosen name and insisted upon calling him Cassius Clay.
Many white folks were secretly pleased by this and delighted in it each time Terrel called Ali "Clay".
Ali had a solution for it.
He Beat Ernie Terrel's ass ... the whole time asking him:
"What's my name?"
Dr. Jigaboo here is one of them "We Sick Boss" in the process of getting his intellectual ass beat.
He won't say "Denmark Vesey" ... but he's obsessed with Denmark Vesey.
Well then. Please point to an instant where you have EVER been Ali to my Terrel.
I don't have to tell you how many times I've kicked your ass here. It's all immortalized on your blog.
I am always amused by your statements about colleges. Let me state my position.
- Primary responsibility for the education of my 2 boys is mine (and my wife).
- The public school system offers safe haven for the kids while we go earn a living, with the added value of teaching them the state defined curriculum and socialization skills (some of my best friends to date are kid I met when I was 10).
- We supplement the work in school with intensive math problems at home based on the Singapore model and love for reading. I can proudly say the boys are at least 2 grades above their peers
- We included a requirement for one team and one individual sport. They are boys they got to be active. Tossed in one musical instrument.
- I am very suspicious of concepts like unschooling. Not sure how thats executed and how the kids turn out....I reserve my comments.
- Note that college at the end of the day is a SIGNALING TOOL. It tells whoever you are dealing with that you have the focus and drive to apply yourself and achieve a goal. If you decide college is not for you, you still have to develop valuable skills someone is willing to pay top dollar for. There is great need for you to demonstrate that skill from the get go. I know a couple of IT guys that make a ton of money with no college eduction. For a vast majority of high school graduates, its not the norm.
Omo,
Very nicely stated. What is the Singapore model?
DV, please let truth rather ideology win this time, on this post.
Do you want your kids to go to college or not? If you're undecided, just say so. By not saying, I think you do, but you don't want to admit it b/c it might weaken your argument. Baloney. Everyone knows that blacks as a group could benefit the race from having more businesses, at least profitable ones, that keep the money recycling in the community longer before it exits.
I was also wondering, what productive activities are there for someone between 18 and 21 to do with their time in not in college or a legit trade school?
They don't have start up money for a business unless mom and pop are their cash cow. No credit. Little to no experience, either. Still immature and struggling with hormones. Heck, some of them can't even drive and most need help paying for their car insurance. They've never lived on their own, paying their own bills in their own apartment. They're babies in young adult bodies.
So why shouldn't the bright ones who want to learn more be encouraged to go to college on scholarships and grants?
Gets them out of the nest, ya know, and gives them a safe place to learn how to fly.
When scholarships and grants are thin, there's always the "live at home, go to community college or trade school" while working. The CC's are not expensive and have a lot of two year Associate Arts degree programs or certificate programs. Yes, some can be gotten over the Internet, but this is isolating at the time when a young person most wants to be around friends and meet new people.
Side note: I do not endorse sending mediocre students who also show little motivation to learn, to $50K per year universities on college loans or their daddy's bank account. Now that is a waste of money. But $2500 to an automotive certificate program when he likes cars? Hell yeah.
DV, please let truth rather ideology win this time, on this post.
Do you want your kids to go to college or not? If you're undecided, just say so. By not saying, "
LOL
Sista Kit! You crack me up.
Aight. Let's take a look at this DMG question you think is soooo important?
Do I "want my kids" to go to college or not?
lol.
Actually it depends on what they want to do. It depends on what the world will look like in 2020. In 2040. In 2060.
I'm trying to prepare my sons to be effective men able to operate in a world very different from the one their father and their grandfather experienced.
Yeah yeah I know .. 'Daaaaaa Dreeeeaaaanm. Tuh Go Tuh College'.
LOL.
Every since Negros saw Coolie High black people thought a college degree was an automatic ticket to permanent Middle Class.
It's not.
Degrees are commodities.
If you asked a cat 10 years ago if he wanted his son to grow up to own a lot real estate?
He'd say "absolutely".
Today his son would be upside down in mortgages.
Anyway. I think it is a nonevent.
The college business model can't work anymore.
Universities don't have a monopoly on learning.
Typical college kids won't be able to compete with the cats learning on the newer learning models.
It will take care of itself.
Given my druthers they'd be building giant vegetable greenhouses in New Zealand instead of partying at the University of Pennsylvania.
Lol!
Reasonable answer, and you rocked it at the end. Thank you.
BTW, tell them to just say no Monsanto.
Yep I'm feelin DV on this one. A degree is certainly a commodity - what good is a degree if you can't buy it or sell it?
And no, I don't actually see DV having a heart attack if his sons didn't go to college, I'd see him congratulating his sons of peeping the meme on mental and financial fraud.
I'm pretty much isolated in my degree, I could easily have done this through correspondence had I known I was paying thousands to get exclusive use of the world's best libraries and journals and occassionally attend classes. I have a very small academic network which is great - iLove my peoples ta death, but shld I have to pay thousands for that?
iLove what I do in school and I told my Pops 'Imma be my own person' rather than go into business. But it was a choice with mixed regret & success because schools don't teach you to be your own person - they teach you to conform, that you gotta go work for some institution and move up the ladder.
The notion that you've got to go to school to be useful in this life is str8 Babylon. Burn dat.
Um, of course that didn't answer the question I put forth at all. MOTI assumed the direction of my question.
You make alot of bold statements (as usual) "The college business model can't work anymore" Says who?
Universities never claimed such monopoly. But given the choice, I'd prefer to learn engineering principles from somebody who happens to KNOW what they are talking about, rather than some anonymous dude on the internet.
"Typical college kids won't be able to compete with the cats learning on the newer learning models" Again SAYS who? I don't think there's anything wrong with a broadband connection to a professor. What's missing is what's missing HERE: online communication is an incomplete medium of communication. I've learned and refined many concepts outside of the classroom with classmates.
"Given my druthers they'd be building giant vegetable greenhouses in New Zealand instead of partying at the University of Pennsylvania."
So, why are you not farming now?
Oh, what's that? You don't like getting your hands dirty. Oh, I get it...you want everyone ELSE to farm, while you pontificate about the value and importance of farming.
Kit
As a slang word, moti means homie...Freudian slip? You decide.
Why are you all so focused on money? Who cares what you spent on your education. Did you not enjoy the process? Do you feel cheated?
Why would you want to sit on your ass in your apartment discussing calculus in your underwear? Are you that lazy? After class discussions, brainstorming and research projects are better done on site, and in person.
KW, you say "But it was a choice with mixed regret & success because schools don't teach you to be your own person - they teach you to conform, that you gotta go work for some institution and move up the ladder. "
They do no such thing. The choice to conform or not is your own. And in THIS particular crowd "conforming" actually means NOT conforming to the local blog lunacy. A university education is what one makes of it. My education at UCSD and Univ. of Illinois was well worth the monetary price. I really feel bad for anyone who has regrets about their career choices.
If you don't want to climb a corporate ladder, don't. Go farm.
I couldn't be happier with mine.
That's the same argument that you all throw around about the populations health. So quick to place responsibility with someone else, rather than accept it as your own.
No, KW. In this sense, MOTI doesn't mean homie. It means random dude on the internet with opinions. My word, my definition...remember "sista"?
Sho' nuff moti, MOTI is your word.
Apart from business programmes and creative things like design and writing, are the majority of university programmes preparing kids to become employers or be employed?
I don't hate my degree, or the invaluable benefits I've gotten out of it, like my peoples and gr8 contacts I've made. But that doesn't mean I must have love for the institution.
A while back Cnu posited that the main benefit of attending college is the access to particular power circles through the connections you make.
That still seems to be the best benefit.
College was a great time for me. And it was free.
I can see the argument that going into debt for a college education isn't always the best choice.
Then again, sometimes you gotta spend a little money to make a little money. For folks in certain positions, like DMG, you can't do your job without the proper education. And, unlike some folks, I respect the skillset needed to be a an traditional physician, particularly a surgeon.
Besides, it's only money.
When you die, none of it comes with you.
Some folks believe their college experience was worth the debt.
KW,
I think you are confusing University with a trade school. A university education helps one to think critically...or at least should (some of you all here really SHOULD get your money back...). I've never seen it as a job training program. Even medical school only provides one with the foundation for specialty training.
It just sounds like you have some regret.
I agree with Big Man about the money. There's too much life to be lived to worry about dollar bills.Why spend so much time worrying about it.
It's not like many of us HAD the disposable income to choose between purchasing a farm or getting a university education (and even if I DID, I'd choose university every time.)
"The notion that you've got to go to school to be useful in this life is str8 Babylon. Burn dat." KIT
Actually Kit.
I do believe you need to attend school.
It's the standard college business model that is doomed.
The cultural and class assumptions that were once attached to a degree no longer exist.
People who dedicated their lives to acquiring that degree, don't necessarily want to hear it, but it is true.
Schools of the future will look more like ...
they will look more like ...
hell. They will look a lot like this.
A professor can conduct class from wherever.
The technology of teaching has transcended geography.
"You make alot of bold statements (as usual) "The college business model can't work anymore" Says who?" DMG
I say so Jigaboo.
(First thing they teach Negros in Plantation schools is that independent thought is illegitimate.)
DMG
Critical thinking is actually what I enjoy abt my education - that is the whole point of grad schl. My regrets aren't to do with my course, its the institution, I dunno how many times a sista gotta repeat herself.
And no I'm not talking abt trade school. As part of my student job, I sit in on several undergrad classes and I know that indeppendent learning isn't neccessarily equipping one for real independence in the real world.
DV
That was me not Kit. Of course education is important, but I was saying that always degree signifying one's relevance in this world is false.
"A while back Cnu posited that the main benefit of attending college is the access to particular power circles through the connections you make.
That still seems to be the best benefit." Big Man
Yeah. Aight.
You going to take out a loan so your son can have "access" to "power circles"?
Come on ya'll.
I'm disappointed in all this linear thinking.
You are imagining the college experience in 2020 as it was in 2000. 1980.
All this sentimentalism is besides the point.
You've gotta get a bit more creative than that.
Don't get me wrong -
There is NO ONE on the planet who had a better time in college than I did. NO ONE.
I used to feel sorry for cats who weren't on the yard on that first day of spring.
When them bells ring at noon ... I get goose bumps thinking about it.
But shit that was the past. Cell phones were the size of VCR's.
Today ECON-184: Introduction to Econometrics can be experienced on my cell phone.
Imagine 10 years from now.
DV
That was me not Kit. Of course education is important, but I was saying that always degree signifying one's relevance in this world is false.
My fault Kay Dub.
I agree with you.
Not only that ... many degrees are giving people a false sense of security and limiting their opportunities.
The acquisition of most degrees requires a tremendous amount of indoctrination.
90% of it is subconscious.
It turns brothers into DMG's.
(When he first got here he was actually quoting the CDC as a source for health information)
"I say so Jigaboo."
And my response to that is: Who the fuck are you? I mean other than an ignorant, poorly informed nobody.
Why are you all perseverating on what a "degree" does or does not do?
It merely signifies you've completed a course of study, and have a reasonable likelihood of possessing the foundation knowledge of a certain subject area. What you do with your foundation knowledge is up to you. You can take that degree in Economics and become head of the World Bank (scary thought), or be shift manager at McDonald's (even scarier) start your own business, become an Emergency Medicine physician, like a classmate of mine, or start a blog solely to pontificate about subjects you know nothing about merely to further inflate your own ego.
It sounds more likely that you spent too much time having fun than pushing yourself to use your foundation knowledge in innovative ways.
You quote Mercola, but have a problem with the US Centers for Disease Control. Again, you have no foundation, and therefore no way of distinguishing worthless (Mercola--the vitamin pimp) from worthwhile information.
@DMG-
What is the difference between Mercola and Merck?How do you tell the difference?
They both provide information on health and then maybe sell you some products.
Don't they both want to make a profit?
How many things did Merck get pull off the market that killed human being?
Didn't Merck just settle about 2 billion in lawsuits?
Did Mercola have any Deaths attributed to any Products?
Food for thought?
Go back to Lipton on biology vs physics in regards to healing. Who is more responsible? Who is more worthless vs. worthwhile?
How can I be so sure about Big Pharma "foundation" with such a deadly history?
Namaste
"And my response to that is: Who the fuck are you?" DMG
I'm the cat who told you the H1N1 "Pandemic" was a hoax ... before you had monkey viruses squirted up your nose.
I'm the cat that hipped you to the dangers of GMO food and the connections to eugenics.
I'm the cat that reminded you what you are missing by pretending Sistas don't exist.
I'm the cat with whom you are obsessed.
I'm the cat who confronted your arrogant Plantation Negro ignorance with Unapologetic Blackness.
I'm the cat laughing at Jigaboos so happy to finally make it to the Big House ... they can't see it's on fire.
"I'm the cat who told you the H1N1 "Pandemic" was a hoax ... before you had monkey viruses squirted up your nose."
You are the cat who has been weighed, measured, and been found wanting so many times on this subject that it's pathetic that you are still bringing this up. You can't admit that you are wrong on all counts. I took you by the hand and walked you through every point of your faulty logic. But some motherfuckers are just magical thinkers...can't change stupid.
"I'm the cat that hipped you to the dangers of GMO food and the connections to eugenics."
You are the cat who "hipped" me to your complete and utter disdain for facts, and your blind adherence to anybody pushing an unsubstantiated product. Again, you've proven nothing...not even close.
"I'm the cat that reminded you what you are missing by pretending Sistas don't exist."
No, you are the cat whose twists, turns, and gesticulations would put any Crunk Dancer to shame, when asked for a simple definition. And that's just another example of you not answering a question for fear of being found a fraud.
"I'm the cat with whom you are obsessed."
Wrong again. You whine for my presence so much that you all but put up billboards and smoke signals begging for me to show up. (You still counting KW?)
"I'm the cat who confronted your arrogant Plantation Negro ignorance with Unapologetic Blackness."
Now, can somebody please explain why it's always the light-skinned, straight hair, thin-bitch lip negros always tugging at folks coats trying to get them to listen about how "black" they are?
"I'm the cat laughing at Jigaboos so happy to finally make it to the Big House ... they can't see it's on fire."
No..you are the cat who wouldn't leave the Big House for any reason. That's why you continually talk about the "plantation", and out of the other side of your mouth talk about someone staying "in their place", with careful and practiced emulation of your "forebears". Admit it, you feel safe there...you are happy with your straight hair, reminds you of how much "massa" you have, and have had in you, again, and again over the centuries.
OK, we get it. You can be black, just shut the fuck up about it already.
"Now, can somebody please explain why it's always the light-skinned, straight hair, thin-bitch lip negros always tugging at folks coats trying to get them to listen about how "black" they are?"DMG
DV's pic looks pretty dark to me. What am I missing? And besides that,how does complexion take away from someones blackness? Cheap shot.
"Now, can somebody please explain why it's always the light-skinned, straight hair, thin-bitch lip negros always tugging at folks coats trying to get them to listen about how "black" they are?"DMG
LOL.
Cuz it's always some big nose pork n bean eatin corny Leon Spinks lookin' wanna be middle class Jigaboo with a white girl trying to monopolize black.
I represent a coalition of good lookin' brothas married to sistas and we've decided to take black back.
So later for the arguing Geechy.
What's blackest will speak for itself.
You know anybody blacker than me ... post a link.
Oh, Mahndisa...not a cheap shot. Merely bait I was just waiting for this tidbit:
"Cuz it's always some big nose pork n bean eatin corny Leon Spinks lookin' wanna be middle class Jigaboo"
Now, follow me Ms. Rigmaiden...ask yourself seriously why he is denigrating Leon Spinks' looks? I see nothing wrong with his VERY AFRICAN nose...but maybe MOTI only wants to be a "little" black. The only thing I see disturbing in Leon's picture is his attempt at changing his hair.
So, let us recap:
Our self proclaimed "blackest man"
1. Dislikes wide noses, and other features one might find on someone of African descent
2. Fond of racial epithets such as Jigaboo.
3. Funniest quote of the day:
"I represent a coalition of good lookin' brothas married to sistas and we've decided to take black back."
You represent a narcissist with a blog and high speed internet connection...with soft hands who probably spent too much time with the women of the house being told he was cute. This is what is known in some circles as the "bitch ass nigga" in ghetto parlance, if you will.
But seriously, take WHAT back? Blackness never went anywhere, or went out of style.
But I see our host is trying to work a taunt in there somewhere. Which I find odd when most of his pictures curiously look like this dude.
Cuz it's always some big nose pork n bean eatin corny Leon Spinks lookin' wanna be middle class Jigaboo with a white girl trying to monopolize black.
is DMG married to a white woman? Ha! I should have known
Elaborate Anonymous. What should you have known? Explain why it would be a problem if I were married to someone white. (Let's see if you can do it without sounding like a racist).
I'm just gonna give DMG props for being funny with his insults.
Typically, they are a little bland and over the top, but today he was on point.
That was an amusing exchange between he and DV.
Y'all are some funny cats. That's ribbing for real right there.
That was some pretty funny shit DMG.
This is DV's house. He's got home court advantage.
He's at the line and the crowd is waving big foam fingers and chanting "MVP" even though his field goal percentage has fallen to 32% and there's a kid in Cleveland looking like the next coming of Jesus Christ.
Hold your ground. Don't make stupid fouls. Make your free throws and you will win the crowd.
Win the crowd and you win your freedom.
I typically stay out of the jibe exchanges here, but DMG scored a point with the Apr 22, 2010 7:54:00 AM post. lmao. Sorry DV, 'cause you're usually the one who has me in stitches.
Now I'll sit and wait for Anonymous to respond to DMG's question while trying not to sound like a racist. roflmao Y'all funny.....
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