"These people are extremists" MR
DV ^^ Hegelian Head Fake
thesis / anti-thesis / synthesis
Mahndisa. You have been conditioned to think of these people as "extremists".
By casting people who choose Natural Food & No Insurance ... as one "extreme"... and by casting fat boy in the below video as the other "extreme" ... they can herd the masses down the more profitable "middle" path of mostly Unnatural Foods & Insurance.
Thus 50% of the American population is obese and we are about to be hit with a Tsunami of diabetes.
Believe it or not Mahndisa, mankind has survived for long periods of time without genetically modified food, mass vaccines, prescription drugs and "universal" health insurance.
Mahndisa, with all due respect, I submit that you are far more extreme than these people in the video who have the courage to hold themselves responsible for their health.
They don't depend on the government.
Which is what this ENTIRE DISCUSSION is about.
Ultimately do you trust in the government to manage your health ... or do you trust in yourself?
Would you let the government manage your money?
Mahndisa ... do you think National Health Care ... is free?
How much do you think it is going to cost you per month?
If you get diabetes ... what BENEFIT will this "insurance" provide?
Wouldn't it just be cheaper to avoid High Fructose Corn syrup?
DMG said...
Well, it's been several hours now, and I'll conclude that MOTI, our host has nothing to say.Our host opened his mouth, made a statement, but did not have the tools to extricate his foot (size 12 did you say?) from his even bigger mouth. (...strange, that your foot is bigger than your mouth, but I digress).
Are you conceding, and thereby shutting the fuck up about Chia-seeds, or are you going to try to milk this one awhile longer?
Let a brother know, I'm trying to catch some basketball I have recorded on the DVR, and wouldn't want to miss your "evidence".
109 comments:
I don't know DV. When they started talking about eating "raw foods" and in "small portions" it came off sort of LaRouchian/anti-tap water drinking/crypto-fascist.
I feel better having a doctor tell me to give my son Gatoraid (for whatever he had back then), and then later receiving a $500.00 bill in the mail after I had already paid $300.00 that night.
These people are utterly full of shit. They say at about one minute, that they could afford health insurance. At 1:20-1:23 they talk about spending about a thousand dollars a month in 'super food' for their health. These peopledo NOT represent the average American who is struggling an on a budget DV.
They are posturing and self righteous because if shit comes to shit, and one of them gets a broken bone or has a heart attack, they ostensibly have enough disposable income and or savings that they could cover the cost of their medical care. Most people don't have that luxury and get saddled with million dollar medical bills.
I want you to show examples of some poor down and out folks that refuse to have insurance out of these untenable principles.
"I don't know DV. When they started talking about eating "raw foods" and in "small portions" it came off sort of LaRouchian/anti-tap water drinking/crypto-fascist." Gee
ROFLMAO aahhhhhhh.
Yup.
When they started talking about the difference between "Insurance" & "Prevention" I knew they were up to something evil.
Plus Gee ... the nerve of these people to pose as "normal" Americans.
The nerve! To suggest spending $900 a month on healthy food instead of insurance premiums is simply Elitist! It is CON SPICK YOU US CON SUMP SHUN!!
The gall of these people to be different! To stray from the herd!!
What if they get struck by a bolt of lightening infected with the eboli virus? What then?!?!
What if they get incurable cancer?
What will they dooooooo without Insurance??!!!
Come on Gee Chee?!? Be serious here!! EVERYBODY can't afford nutritious food?!
So why should any of us have it?!
Cancer for 1! Cancer for all!!!
"I want you to show examples of some poor down and out folks that refuse to have insurance out of these untenable principles." Mahndisa
iMay not be down and out, but iAm relatively poor.
iAm a student and based on my income alone, i'M prolly below the city's average income.
But iEat well.
...yet spend the equivalent of $200-$250/month on organic food.
How? Price comparison is how iBegan. The difference between organic and non-organic food is not always that great.
When iGot over the "organic is bougey and elitist" rant, i'D choose decently-priced organic over the ordinary stuff and gradually made the switch. My local supermarket has a wide range of organic foods sometimes and it's costly in these tuff times, but i'M getting by.
Needless to say, iDon't buy chia seeds and any other superfoods that'd dent my pocket, sesame, pumpkin and flax seeds do just fine.:)
iHaven't registered with the local clinic since iMoved off campus to this flat 3 years ago and iHave never needed to go to the Doctor.
iLive 15mins from a well-known hospital, but thankfully have never set foot there.
By contrast my cousin has house-hopped 3 times in the same amount of time and has had to register with the local GP errytime bec of her allergies and is forever coming down with something. Sure she's asmathic and has arthritis in her knee, but she's also been diagnosed as clinically obese.
Sure it's an extreme comparison, by bodysize, health and diet, but its also a comparison by pocket. She earns more than me. She has private health insurance from work in addition to the free health service (NHS) for the masses.
Me, iEat right and exercise and iAm student poor.
You're in the UK - so your "free" insurance is a given KW. None of this actually applies to you.
Here's the rub that has the crypto-fascist LaRooshians flailing wildly on multiple fronts:
For all the political and economic uncertainties about health reform, at least one thing seems clear: The bill that President Obama signed on Tuesday is the federal government’s biggest attack on economic inequality since inequality began rising more than three decades ago.
In order to understand the quite strange "identity" constructed over time by the crypto-fascist cult founded by Lyndon H. Larouche, an extremely useful starting point is this 5 part article written by Paul Rosenberg several years ago which dissects "conservatism" as identity politics.
LaRoosh noir is easily one of the strangest memetic exercises to be found anywhere - a peculiar blend of new age conspiracy theory and kneegrow conservatism seeking desperately to cloak itself in the cultural garb of Blackness.....,
KW, you have the NHS.
And you spend the equivalent of $250 US on food for one. Actually, there are many folks who only have that to spend for a family of 3-4.
Have you all been wearing your Hugo Boss suits and driving "the Benz" so long that you don't know that people are living in poverty? You expect someone to drop $900/month on designer food, that will be shat down the toilet the same as food that comes from Albertsons, Jewel, Safeway, or Harris Teeter?
Median (not the average) household income is around $44,000.
Here's a visual. The family income is $63,091 before taxes.
Unbeliveable, hopefully, tomorrow they will crash their car on a three, and they will pay the hundred of thousand dollars for the hospital on their healthy food budget, and will eat the rest of there life mc do food... worse their kid will contract tetanos and they will die from it... Incredible! I can not imagine some real people so stupid and selfish...
Kay Duuuub. Gee Chee.
Please peep the Plantation Negro switcheroo.
Few weeks ago were "kooks" for celebrating organic natural foods.
We were "silly" for avoiding genetically modified factory meat.
We were "irresponsible" for questioning the efficacy of vaccines or the reality of the H1N1 pandemic.
Now that ALL ... ALLLLLLLL ... ALL of which we advocated is the observable truth ... The Plantation Negros try to switch the argument from the value of natural foods vs. the dangers of engineered food to some fake ass concern about "poor families" who can't afford to eat non-toxic food.
That is BULL FUGGIN SHIT.
Anybody with a straw in their mouth sucking down a Sprite can afford a piece of fruit.
The choice IS NOT organic vs. factory.
The choice is natural food vs. prescription drugs.
I contend Prescription drugs are FAR MORE expensive the the diabetes killer - chia seeds.
That delusional stupid punk ass pussyboy Link-A-Lot Larouche nonsense CNu is attempting to insert in the discussion is evidence of mental illness.
DV you have avoided my comment altogether likely because it makes sense. Yes KW, even if you don't want it, you will get healthcare! I know there are issues with care in the UK, but you are blessed. DMG is righter than rain and please bear in mind that I DO buy only organic fruits and veggies,whether certified or not because I live in the bread basket of California. Not everyone is presented with these options and certainly not everyone can afford to buy organic. I honestly DO believe in the health benefits of buying organic; I don't think anyone could deny that. However, a thousand dollars a MONTH to spend on food? If I had that type of money, I could hire my own personal chef to make my meals twice a month! Seriously. These people are extremists who sit on their high horses and excoriate those who use the 'plantation system' but that is only because they have the LUXURY of a savings that is significant enough that they can spent twelve thousand dollars a year on food. I have a family of three and buy only organic fruits and veggies and wold you believe I spend $550 a month on groceries?
Not only am I insulted by the naivitee and self righteousness of this video, it is woefully out of touch with the reality of most humans in the USA.
DV you are forever getting on Cnu and DMG for questioning the sustainability of your lifestyle memes. In this case, their criticisms have merit.
Please suggest something that people can actually AFFORD to do. I don't want to hear that, oh but you pay this and that and could afford to pay a thousand dollars for food. NO that isn't true. I don't have cable television, my OLD cars are already paid for (one of which just ran out of juice) and I carry a mortgage. We live fairly simply and I like that. HOWEVER, I don't have a thousand dollars a month in cash after we pay the mortgage, utilities and other OBLIGATIONS. We don't have credit card bills because we don't use credit cards either. We are hardly living a conspicuous consumptive American lifestyle. Yet what I've seen in the above video is like PROSPERITY GOSPEL.
Don't get your kids vaccinated. Don't get health insurance. Don't eat factory farmed food. If your kid gets sick with a broken leg or even meningitis, you have enough savings on tap to pay at least $3K for their emergency visit, at least $300 or so for their follow up medications and at least $20K for their hospital stay.
These people are in fucking lala land and are advocating pure selfish, ideologically bases SELFISHNESS.
I hope nobody in their right mind listens to these muthafuckers. They aren't gonna pay their kids medical bills!
And not that chia seeds aren't a good idea, but seriously can you point me to an NGO that furnishes organic foods and herbs to the middle class and or poor people here in the US? A nigga's been breaking the bank trying to eat right and get all these herbs and supplements. But that shit is expensive. I don't have the income that you may have DV and I don't play golf nor could I afford to have it as a sport. This isn't poverty just a simplistic lifestyle. Tell me how to make it better.
BTW KW if you were relatively poor, you wouldn't have $200-250 to SPEND on organic foods. I think that's the point. DMG that chart you posted needs to be augmented. Most Americans pay in excess of 34% of their income to housing expenses. Ours looks more like 50% of our net income, which is a lot.
We are trained to be slaves to our desires. Some of us recognize it and put up resistance. Some recognize it and question why fight it. Some are just in denial.
I'm the first generation of my family raised outside the country. My parents ate meat when they could. Not when they wanted to (KFC,MickD's,TacoBell) but when they could. They grew up healthy. They didnt starve to death. They use to cut wood, fish and hunt. They still had jobs. They weren't living like Swiss Family Robinson but their meat came from the end of a rifle.
Don't talk about what's practical for black folks. Was slavery make-believe. George Lucas didn't create that ysh, it was real. The ghetto is not living off of honey, milk and cornmeal. That's not having anything to eat.
Talk'n bout practicality. I've "toted" well water and bathed in iron tubs with it and used an outhouse during my summers visiting my grandmother. Meanwhile back in the city my closets friends dealt dope (not me) and in college slept on iron grids at night to keep warm and rode my bike to work at 7am.
If all the fast food restaurants were to disappear, all the health insurance were to disappear tomorrow, I promise you Negroes will ignore people that are telling them to lay down and die because they lost the security of their golden calf and start supporting Will Allen.
He's not the only one, in Third Ward professionals like Dr. Akili Graham and other doctors work in third ward some have created their own organic gardens. They have their own practices in the neighborhood because they realize everybody can't make it to the medical center and extend the idea that the "hood" can become a landscape that isn't condemned to liquor stores. I watch people make early morning runs, pre-lunch, lunch, dinner runs to the liquor store. Everyday, same faces. That is hopelessness. That's the dope dealer mentality that "you got to die of something." I almost got shot behind a pair of Jordans and a rockweiler.
Radio tak'n bout "We're just playing what the people want to hear" NO, you're playing what record companies are paying good money for you to play and the people want to hear it because that's the only ysh you play.
Keep telling Negroes their income level is why they living the way they are living, but don't extend the courtesy of them blaming the white man for all their problems. Well, if white people aren't responsible for everything in the "hood" then the same extends to Negroes income level not being responsible for everything they put in their bodies. Greens, sweet potatoes, cornbread, honey makes more sense than the diets Negroes are on now. What poor folks can't work with that as a base and work their way into other alternatives. Well not if you are desire driven. If that's the argument it makes sense. But all that annual income level and poor house talk goes out the window like karate in a street fight.
Everybody poor doesn't have health insurance in the first place. Everybody poor don't have car insurance. They got to still live. Still got to drive to work. Dude tells you at the end to do health insurance if that's your thing cause obviously he's well aware his situation is his situation.
"Ours looks more like 50% of our net income, which is a lot."
Mahndisa.
Just because people don't have money doesn't mean they are "poor".
Your cash is being taken in taxes for "Defense" and now your "Health".
Americans don't have cash because they are being scammed.
Appreciate that.
This is the richest nation on the planet.
Our "poor" people weigh more than 200lbs.
Dude in the video below is not poor.
Stop trying to make eating well something people ... "CAN'T" do.
Yes We Can
Eat naturally.
Reading over my post it comes off like those experiences were at the same time. They were apart. Just pointing out that I've thought about not having anything and what is truly necessary for my sustainability at the time experiencing those moments.
As for the country living when visiting my grandmother, I just figured that's how it was suppose to be because I saw others living like that. That wasn't an ugly experience. It would appear to some as crazy.
I promise you Negroes will ignore people that are telling them to lay down and die because they lost the security of their golden calf and start supporting Will Allen.
lol,
I told head porch-monkey-pimp-in-charge Larooshifer about Will Allen a month of sundays ago - and explicitly questioned his lack of call-out at that time!!!
You think this fool has lifted a single finger to support a community-oriented solution?
sheeeeeiiiiiitttttt......,
He MUCH TOO busy peddling the Larooshiferian noir agenda to be concerned with any type of solution that would compete with flash pimpery and the status quo grind that is the essence of Lyndon Larouche's cult of personality.
You see Gee ...
What CNu doesn't understand (& Sci-Fi Negros hate that which they don't understand) is that the "community" doesn't eat a poisonous diet by accident.
They don't voluntarily consume 60% of their calories via High Fructose syrup because of simple convenience.
They have been programmed. They have consumed decades of misinformation starting with that Incredible Lie called the "Food Pyramid" in every classroom.
Hundreds of hours of football commercials and subliminal programming has conditioned Americans, even smart educated Americans, to eat a diet that is guaranteed to give them diabetes and cancer.
That is not going to change with one feel good story about a beautiful brother farming and teaching ... even if it has a James Brown soundtrack.
Pictures of Fat Men with Titties should hang in every class room.
Imagine how that would discourage the kids from eating Doritos.
DV, you've twisted everything I said. NO. The average American cannot afford to spend one THOUSAND dollars on food every month. I buy organic and local, so what are you saying? Your sermon is tiresome and doesn't apply to me.
You admitted a few months ago that when you needed knee surgery you had a 'plantation' doctor perform the procedure. Did you have health insurance or did you pay for the surgery out of pocket? Was the procedure arthroscopic for about $5K? Or was the procedure more expensive?
You mentioned that you go to a Naturopathic Doctor and pay about $250 an hour. Do you HONESTLY think the average American can afford to pay that much when most people are having a hard time paying their bills?
Please show us a low cost or sliding scale Naturopath.
You can't just chastise people for living a 'plantation' lifestyle when you aren't offering any alternatives that they can afford.
Nobody is arguing that organic foods aren't the right thing to eat at all. Nobody is saying that taking Big Pharma drugs as curealls is the right thing either. But to advocate NOT HAVING INSURANCE when people have families is utterly irresponsible UNLESS you are rich or well to do.
If your child breaks a LEG, that injury is a result of BLUNT TRAUMA NOT NUTRICIONAL DEFICIENCIES. The leg will need to be set and casted. You likely need a doctor or other health professional to set the leg. If your child has bacterial induced meningitis, are you seriously going to let your child go without medical care?
What you are saying is inconsistent. Even if you took your child to a Naturopath for meningitis, that Naturopath is charging you for $250 an hour by your own admission. What about a hospital stay? Could you afford that? Do you think the average American could?
Please show us some alternatives. Some are ready to make lifestyle changes but if real grievances are brought to your attention and the only response is that somehow they are at fault for their lack of financial position or discipline, you will lose people.
"The choice IS NOT organic vs. factory.
The choice is natural food vs. prescription drugs.
I contend Prescription drugs are FAR MORE expensive the the diabetes killer - chia seeds."
Diabetes killer-chia seeds. Are you claiming that chia seeds will heal or prevent Diabetes Mellitus? I'll even spot you...let's just remove Type I Diabetes. We'll only look at Type II.
Really? DIRECT CHALLENGE TO OUR HOST.
Prove that Chia seeds can heal, or prevent Type II Diabetes Mellitus, thereby providing a cost savings to consumers.
Or shut the fuck up.
"DV, you've twisted everything I said. NO. The average American cannot afford to spend one THOUSAND dollars on food every month. "
You've created yet another false dichotomy Mahndisa.
How much can the average American afford to spend on Insurance and Prescription drugs?
Just one question, what about if one day you break your leg? Are you going to repair it by yourself with wood, what if tomorrow you and your family have a car crash, worse you are responsible of the car crash (nobody to blame and to sue to get the money from)... Are you going to let you and your family die or are you going to the hospital? Last time I have been to the hospital in the US, I had stitches and it cost to my employer 1100$ for 30 min in the emergency room. I let you calculate how much it will be for several people in the hospital for several days, if you have surgery to get your leg back, are you going to ask not to have surgery and stay without walking the rest of your life. Do you really think that you won’t have any diseases because you eat quality food, while the air you respire is polluted, the water you drink is polluted, the office you are working in is polluted, your house also probably... If your fight for providing quality food to all american citizens is a good one, you lost yourself when you fight against health reform...
"Prove that Chia seeds can heal, or prevent Type II Diabetes Mellitus, thereby providing a cost savings to consumers." DMG
Cool. No problem Doc.
I will be happy to provide you such proof.
Before I begin, could you please provide an example of the type of evidence you would accept as ... proof?
"what about if one day you break your leg? " Bergere
I would seek to get it set.
duhhhhhhh
Do we really need UNIVERSAL INSURANCE PREMIUMS ... to fix a leg?
What has the world come to?
Bergere ... peep this.
Did it ever occur to you, that if I'm not spending $Hundreds of dollars a month in taxes ... oops. "Health Care Insurance" premiums ... I may have a few dollars left over to pay a man or a woman trained to set broken legs?
You paid $1100 for stitches. $100 for the stitching. $1,000 for the bureaucracy that pays the salaries of technocrats like DMG.
Plantation Negros have been suckered by the idea that they can get more out of a system than they put into it.
DV you have not even addressed substantive questions posed to you, which is sad. You're in a position to guide people to do right by themselves, but instead you pose no alternatives WHATSOEVER. I created no false dichotomy at all. Answer the question please. If your child breaks a leg, can you afford to pay for her medical care out of pocket? If your child develops a condition such that a hospital stay is recommended, can you afford to pay for the hospital costs out of pocket? If so, you are in the minority of most Americans who, as I cited above save only about $392 a YEAR. Your proposition to avoid getting health insurance is not only irresponsible, but financially unsound for the majority of most people.
Where are the pro bono Naturopaths and Doctors of Osteopathy? Where are the pro bono homeopaths? Where are the LOW COST organic food coops? Do you know? Can you point people to them? Not everybody can afford to go to Raley's or Whole Foods and spend an arm and a leg on groceries each month.
You are no better than the ivory tower plantation niggas you routinely excoriate if all you can do is talk shit for those who live on the 'plantation' and avoid answering meaningful questions.
Solutions please?
BTW you've completely created a tangent discussion because you're talking about needing a universal health care system in response to Bergere's questions whereas that was not the essence of the video. The essence of the video was that the people were rich enough to not HAVE to worry about paying for health care if something happened to them or their kids.
So what are you saying exactly? You'd get the broken leg fixed and how much would that cost? You'd save money if you had insurance.
And no, some insurance plans are $75-80 a month with a $1-1.5K deductible. The cost of this healthcare for one year is far cheaper than paying for getting a broken leg set in the ER. You are looking at more than the cost of the deductible JUST for being seen there in the first place!
Keep pushing for solutions and y'all wil be pushing for a long time here.
The purpose is to taunt, not teach or change. Come on now. Either enjoy the show, or change the channel.
How about something verifiable and reproducible?
Big Man you should know better than that by now.
Stop pretending to be skeptical to appease the bullies.
Don't offer solutions?
What blog are you on?
From spirulina smoothies to Vitamin D to no vaccines to GetAChick.
DV drops solutions everyday.
Anyone who even fixes their mouth to say something like that is posturing.
Just admit their are things WE ALL can do to empower ourselves to make our community healthier.
All this fake ass resistance and clinging to the status quo is a lame hustle.
People,
There was a reason I used the term 'relatively poor', as in relative poverty...the economic term, not 'oh you eat organic so you're not poor just bec you say so'.
My income is below the disposable income threshold of £110/week after housing costs, which is the national figure.
Obviously my situation is not the same as a family of four that has a $200-$250 food budget, but that doesn't explain why that family has a higher chance of becoming obese. I'm not being snooty, but pointing out there are other issues closely connected to poverty and dietary patterns that result in obesity.
If the average US family of 2.5 pple spends $6000 on food (both takeout and home food) in the link DMG posted, then organic food being expensive for the middle class is an urban myth.
$6000 on food means y'got money, but are not empowered to make the right choices abt food. Not enough pple knw how to cook so they opt for convenience meals. Nuthin like 'my life is busy' - it takes 20 minutes to make a veg meal for 2.5 pple.
...If I didn't have NHS, I'd have to have international health insurance - it's a visa requirement for those on non-EU passports. My parents took it out for me when I came over and if that wasn't there, I'd look into health schemes for alternative meds. Is anyone on that?
DV
We've already done this dance.
No doubt you are providing "solutions" for what you see is as a problem.
Just like some folks believe abortion is a "solution" to a problem.
On numerous, NUMEROUS occasions folks have pushed you to explain how to make your "solutions" workable for the masses.
And your response is that you don't care about the masses. Sometimes you say you're just in it to taunt them to with the futility of their existence, other times you say you're focused on the "elite" negroes with credit cards and "good" jobs.
No matter.
As you just posted recently, this blog is an exercise in propaganda creation. As such, everything stated here should be treated as propaganda, just like most thing stated on the evening news, in your local newspaper and by every politician.
No more weight should be given to the statements made here, than the statements made by any of those other sources.
It's silly that cats and ladies, keep trying to tie you down. You ain't gonna let that happen, and you're not going to change your mind.
So, I keep coming back, since I'm sure that will be your next question, because there is no rule that says that propaganda can't be useful. I do learn interesting things here, from you and from the others.
And it's typically entertaining.
But, trying to make it something other than propaganda seems tiring and pointless. It is what it is.
Just so we're all clear:
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
I don't want to make it seem like I'm saying this stuff has no worth, or is inherently evil.
KW, that DMG post was not in concert with the average American's pocketbook right now. Organics and free range are terribly expensive. I saw free range meat the other day for $7.99 a fucking pound!!! A pound!!! A pound! That is madness! Come out to California and come to the supermarket with me one day. Your statements will evaporate. Eating right is expensive.
"On numerous, NUMEROUS occasions folks have pushed you to explain how to make your "solutions" workable for the masses."
What?
Come on bra.
If "the masses" took 5,000 iu's of Vitamin D per day what do you think would happen to them?
If "the masses" drank Spirulina smoothies for breakfast instead of eating fried swine ... how much could they save on "Health Care".
Big Man I'm in the process of liberating Plantation Negros.
This is above your pay grade.
Just because you don't get see it .. doesn't mean it is not there.
So don't worry about understanding what I'm doing.
Just do it.
Stop the pork.
Drink Spirulina.
Take Vitamin D.
Don't let them vaccinate your children.
That's more Solutions than you got from the entire Civil Rights Movement.
"$7.99 a fucking pound!!! A pound!!! A pound! That is madness!" Mahndisa
So ... if somebody offers you meat for $1.29 a pound ... what does that tell you?
No wonder you want "Insurance".
"There was a reason I used the term 'relatively poor', as in relative poverty...the economic term, not 'oh you eat organic so you're not poor just bec you say so'." Kay Duuub
Don't allow yourself to be intimidated into playing the "But what about everybody!!!" Game.
When the Plantation peddles billions of dollars worth of diabetes drugs like Avendia ... no one asks ... "But what about the poor people who can't afford Avendia".
...
...
Well actually I'm wrong.
They do.
They just call it "National Health Insurance" to make sure we all pay to give "the masses" prescription drugs ...AFTER they get diabetes.
DV said:
Big Man I'm in the process of liberating Plantation Negros.
This is above your pay grade.
Just because you don't get see it .. doesn't mean it is not there.
So don't worry about understanding what I'm doing.
Just do it.
Stop the pork.
Drink Spirulina.
Take Vitamin D.
Don't let them vaccinate your children.
That's more Solutions than you got from the entire Civil Rights Movement.
So now you a liberator, preacher and life coach all wrapped up in one nattily-dressed package.
Good to hear.
I'll be sure to keep that in mind moving forward.
KW,
"If the average US family of 2.5 pple spends $6000 on food (both takeout and home food) in the link DMG posted, then organic food being expensive for the middle class is an urban myth."
Please note, the figure was a family of 3 (two adults, on child) with a greater than $63k yearly income (this isn't the median US income, but significantly more)...and the example did not say take-out (as this implies luxury), but food eaten outside of the home. Having to purchase food at work, school etc., so saying take-away isn't accurate. And nobody said middle class America. 50% of US income is under $44k/year. Nor did we talk about obesity. We were talking about being able to afford designer food (you might know it as "organic").
And I do believe I once posted a comparison calculator showing real costs of "organic" food items compared to regular supermarket items some months ago. Will try to locate it again.
Now, here's my problem with organic: there is no consensus on what that term means. Anybody can say their stuff is "organic", and charge an inflated price...and you all seem to buy into it. Second, there's no proof that eating organic adds any significant health benefit over eating a similar diet that is not considered "organic". Our host likes to compare extremes. Supersized McDonald's meals versus his high priced designer vegetarian (or whatever) diet. That's an easy comparison.
A more accurate comparison would be his high dollar value designer food, with a normal healthy balanced diet, purchased from an average grocery store.
He talks about how unhealthy CNu and UBJ are...I don't eat organic. I'm 42, run 3 miles in under 19minutes. 8-8.5% body fat. 167lbs. 5'10". Resting heart rate probably still under 60/min. Blood pressure 117/78 or so last I took about a week ago. I don't work out regularly, but I do walk and ride a bike often. I enjoy bacon on occasion. So explain that. It's called moderation. It's not hard, nor expensive. It doesn't require trips to specialty stores or strict adherence to a special diet. And I only go to the hospital for my job.
Try it.
(And poor people who cannot afford Avandia can take another class of medication or a generic covered by their insurance). It's not that hard.
"On numerous, NUMEROUS occasions folks have pushed you to explain how to make your "solutions" workable for the masses."-Big Man
What?
Come on bra.
If "the masses" took 5,000 iu's of Vitamin D per day what do you think would happen to them?
If "the masses" drank Spirulina smoothies for breakfast instead of eating fried swine ... how much could they save on "Health Care".
Big Man I'm in the process of liberating Plantation Negros. DV
And that is the essence of the debates. DV is just like any ivory tower arm chair intellectual. He can make these pronouncements because he can AFFORD to do so. He can go golfing and live a life where he can pay hundreds of dollars for Maxwell concert tickets. The good life is great. But most people are struggling and cannot afford it. I ask him to point us to an organization that supplies low cost organic foods to the people. No response. I ask him to tell us how the average American can incur healthcare costs due to unforseen events like a broken leg or meningitis without insurance. The only response is that insurance is more expensive than the cost of medical care when you need it. False and obfuscation of the truth.
I asked how a person with oral allergy syndrome might benefit from a raw diet. No response.
Responses are only given to chastise, punish and degrade those on the so called plantation, which he utilizes when it suits him, like for his knee surgery.
As to what happens when you take Vitamin D3 every day, surely it can boost your immune system. But you can get sick still. My baby son is just getting over chicken pox and I gave him coconut oil AND vitamin D via sunshine and or tablets every day!
All of this to say, DV is not providing solutions nor avenues to TANGIBLE AFFORDABLE solutions.
And you are wrong on the organics DMG. The federal government has rigorous standards, and so do some states, on what organic means. Here is some information. Oh I shouldn't have done your homework for you though. You owe me;)
In all seriousness though, it has been shown that pesticide residues are harmful to humans. And in fact, they are blamed for the declining bee population. Furthermore, with the GMO additions to our food supply we simply DON'T KNOW the long term affects on GMO consumption. Therefore eating organic makes the most sense for the conservative minded. The problem is that they are fucking expensive! And most people would rather spend their money on other things.
"I ask him to point us to an organization that supplies low cost organic foods to the people. No response." Mahndisa
I gave you a response.
It wasn't the one you wanted to hear.
I told you that ORGANIC FOOD IS CHEAPER THAN INORGANIC FOOD ... when you factor in the costs of diabetes and cancer.
Obesity has a cost Mahndisa.
Giving children Snapples & Sprites costs more than fresh squeezed juice.
I don't care what you paid at the Cosco register.
Mahndisa,
My Google Chrome works nicely (try it, it's actually a nice browser). Thanks for the links, but I double check everything sent with outside sources anyway....thought you all did that?
I know about USDA Certified organic, however that doesn't stop people from getting around that certification, or using other names such as "all-natural", "free-range" and weaving the world Organic into their product name.
I'm not against "organic" food, not sure why you all keep labeling me as such. I'm against scam artists that are preaching that they are better for you and that you must buy them at inflated prices.
Quite frankly I think the whole Organic thing is a marketing ploy.
"I told you that ORGANIC FOOD IS CHEAPER THAN INORGANIC FOOD ... when you factor in the costs of diabetes and cancer."
Not even then. Are you trying to state that there is an established clear link of non "organic" labeled food as a cause of diabetes or cancer? NEGRO PLEASE.
And cancer is not one disease state...but you might not know that.
Try again.
"The only response is that insurance is more expensive than the cost of medical care when you need it" Mahndisa
Poor poor poor understanding of costs.
If you break your leg ... and the Emergency room wants to charge $4800 ... doesn't mean that is the true costs of setting a leg.
That is a cost of supporting the bureaucracy you call "health insurance".
There are so many costs factored into that bill that very little of it reflects the true cost of ... setting ... a broken leg.
If INTELLIGENT ... EDUCATED ... EMPOWERED people thought like first class citizens instead of helpless Plantation Negros it wouldn't be so difficult to see that this so-called "Insurance" is a scam designed to monopolize health care for allopathy & corporate prescription drugs.
My God ... they must be putting drugs in that factory meat.
Who could possibly argue about the value of natural organic food vs. the consequences of inorganic denatured food + "insurance"?
Mind boggling.
Mr. Man On the Internet,
I've been waiting for a couple of hours now on your proof? You didn't forget did you? Should I restate the exchange? I think it went something like this:
"Prove that Chia seeds can heal, or prevent Type II Diabetes Mellitus, thereby providing a cost savings to consumers." DMG
"Cool. No problem Doc.
I will be happy to provide you such proof.
Before I begin, could you please provide an example of the type of evidence you would accept as ... proof?" MOTI
To which I replied:
"How about something verifiable and reproducible?"
Waiting...
Gee Chee
iCan relate. Living in another country, outside of the so-called developed world (excl. Japan) is soooo neccessary!
DMG
I'm guessing that's meant to be UBM not UBJ - UBJ says he's never been fat in his life. He's possibly planning to start up a microfarm in the heart of the city. Good work.
The pic is of 2.5 pple but that neither here nor there, point is those are people on the higher end of the scale. But still among that income group people make bad lifestyle choices, eat more and move less.
Sandwiches at work - that's relative. Being vegan I'm a bit paranoid about eating mass produced food plus vegan choices are limited so even with that kinda income I'd still make my own food.
You're in good shape because you made the lifestyle choice.
Same here, I pay +20% more for my food, because I've made that. What stops the 1 in 4(obesity stat) of the 11% of without dependents who constitute my 'category' of those who live under the threshold?
Mahndisa,
Girrrl, if I knew of a cheaper way to eat organic other than what's in season and buying locally sourced produce, I'd tell ya but I don't : (
I hear you though about making food more affordable to the poorer communities (I mean those in absolute poverty), but I think the work starts with empowering people to make the right choices. Understanding that fast food is fast death is the only way to put those junk shops out of bizness.
Small projects like the one Gee Chee described or what UBJ is proposing are one step forward.
Making organic food more widely available to poorer communities is an ideal to work towards, but I'm in doubt of that possibility because hydro farming is looking like the way of the frankenfuture.
In terms of resources, I'm not sure if even if people had the $ means, that organic farming is sustainable. And no doubt, South American and African soil would suffer for the increase in demand for natural food.
KW said:
"In terms of resources, I'm not sure if even if people had the $ means, that organic farming is sustainable. And no doubt, South American and African soil would suffer for the increase in demand for natural food"
That's an interesting concept.
From everything I've heard, folks left behind organic farming and livestock management because they needed to produce more food and still make a profit.
Personally, I think eating fruits and vegetables grown without pesticides, and animals fed what they would naturally eat, is smart.
But, I can also see how it would require a RADICAL change in people's habits. And, honestly, it would involve certain sacrifices, that I wager most people don't feel are necessary. Like I said a while back, most folks in America like meat, want to continue eating meat, and are not interested in a diet that does not include regular doses of meat.
And everything I've read leads me to believe that's a massive problem for the eating healthy movement.
So, what we gonna do?
DV appears to be on Team "Scare them with the facts about how their meat is produced."
I don't think that team is gonna' win.
Some of you guys did not do your homework and just started emoting your fears and disgust at the few characters on the video even though you did not know anything about them You went way overboard in their simple , beauty and rationality meaning in the video that has nothing to do with money and or chia seeds.
Let me explain. Mike Adams the Health Ranger Story is what we should all do.
Mike used to visit the "hospice" tal like crazy for a major portion of his life constantly ill, sick and broke and all he got were more prescriptions etc. At the end of his rope , he said I will now take personal responsibility and researched everything on his own and started a blog just like DV as he got away from the allopathic lifestyle, his who life turned around.He found the same joy that radiates from DV.
Many people who already knew about the criminality of the German "Hospice"- tal and started joining in (unlike SUBREALISM website). Mike was then able to make it his life work. If you listen to most of his programs they are made from poverty stricken central and south america etc.. He live in the deep jungles for long periods of time studying some of the old folk medicine that the indigenous tribes used. He lives it and practices it. To call him wealthy white guy and hate him is so very weak and racist. Alex J, Kevin Trudeau etc worship all of Mike's knowledge.
M, he has done so much research in what you believe, we should both send him a Thank you card.
What is wrong with you People????? The "hospice" tal is a pharmaceutical Con!!
I don't want Health Insurance either.God would not forgive me if I gave it to some else. If I was in the video I would be using my middle finger etc. and acting really vile.:)
You spineless folks who are to weak to take personal responsibility for your most personal gift (your health) keep on justifying your rational fears why the hospice and the "hospice" tal is vital to your life. It doesn't matter it is still just fear. I know the joy that Mike is feeling.
I got it. I want to move to where he is so bad -god help me.
Emergency??? He can treat himself if minor or
He knows enough anti allopathic doctors to go to.
If he is out in an accident, and they take him the ER as soon as he is in the recovery and alert.
He knows more medicine than the criminal -he will be out of there. Trust me, I have all unused Heath Insurance for the last 2 years and my wife and I both refused to go. Imagine my wife finding a lump and deciding to go to a holistic Doc.and have it go away in one month and laughing afterwards(her decision) . Yea, I am scared sometimes but never scared enough to go visit the priest class at the " hospice" tal. I see it as blessing that the poor might not have the funds for 80$ vaccines. Stop your whining. Stop crapping on a guy who believes what he is saying because he does not have your fear of the priest. That is your stuff.
Hot Wax
You can't really be serious son?
This is how y'all get down.
People get angry and lob insults and make accusations on this site every day. You included.
If you're going to ask folks to treat this random white dude with respect, the first step is practicing what you're preaching.
Given how cats on this blog deal with each other, with most of us being black, what's so special about this random white boy?
Why is he immune from attacks?
Did you protest when cats were attacking the sister who played in Precious?
Man, y'all cats tickle me.
White boy gets called out his name, it's a problem.
Black girl gets called a disgusting heifer, and that's quite all right.
Foolishness.
I think it's fine if you think hospitals are a joke and a scam and refuse to use them.
Some folks agree with you, others do not.
The folks that disagree with you passed a new law.
That's the story.
Big Man
Already corporations are buying up farming land or striking up deals in South America and Africa to meet the consumer needs in the West.
Reality aside, if North America and Europe were to decide organic soil farming is the way forward - where would the farm land come from to adequately do so, other than from these two places whose land is farmed by big corps today, in place of rainforests.
The only way for organic farming to be sustainable and to counter hydroponic frankenfarming is through greenhouses - i'M skeptical of organic hydroponic farming though.
The Netherlands is a small country, but produces the bulk of Europe's organic vegetables in greenhouses.
iDont see this as a winning game - early death is no win.
iTire of convincing people to eat right, arguments with hard heads are cool but on the real, iReason with people who are willing to see the sense of a meat free diet. iCant will someone to change it must come from within.
If Americans don't have the sense to stop funding their deaths thru MickeyDees, then maybe there is a link between their addiction and a subliminal desire to die.
Jus' sayin.
Hot Wax
You can't really be serious son?
lol,
as serious as an "english-as-a-second-language" LaRooshian imp is mentally capable of being.
lollipop already admitted to being a downline buttboy in greek-phi-greek. Once bent over and sphinctorially owned, always bent over and sphinctorially owned...,
Wax,
Happy that your wife's lump went away. There are plenty of benign reasons for a woman to find a lump in her breast...and plenty of concerning reasons. Do what you think is right for you and your family. Hopefully things will turn out fine. I only ask that you never utter the phrase, "...but nobody ever told us...".
MOTI,
You going to man up and answer my question? You know, "how men do"?
"From everything I've heard, folks left behind organic farming and livestock management because they needed to produce more food and still make a profit." Big Man
... folks?
folks left behind organic farming and livestock management?
No my friend. Multinational agri-businesses run by international banks left organic farming in favor of Sci-Fi farming.
Why?
Average cat will correctly point to the money.
Deeper cats will point to the coincidental eugenics.
Inorganic food kills organic people.
Just watched this video again. The husband doesn't exactly look like the picture of health. He's got sunk eyes, wasting of the temporalis muscle, and the buccal fat pad.
(Pssst MOTI, Maybe you should look up the term "inorganic". Perhaps you mean foods that have not been certified organic. Sorry, continue on with your street sermon. By the way, when you gonna answer that question brotherMAN?)
"Once bent over and sphinctorially owned, always bent over and sphinctorially owned...," CNu
LOL!!!
A fine addition to the DV.net lexicon of digital sayings.
...Accept no substitutes.
"You going to man up and answer my question? You know, "how men do"?" DMG
Absolutely.
My apologies for the delay.
Before I get to the evidence of the value of Chia Seeds in preventing diabetes ...
Can you point us to something "verifiable and reproducible" that suggests any of the multi-billion dollar Plantation drugs are effective in treating diabetes?
That way I can be sure to compare apples to apples.
Anything verifiable and reproducible to suggest Avandia .. for example ... is an effective solution for diabetes?
Thank you
Ummmm. NO, I won't. Answer the question, or well, just shut the fuck up about it. I'm not going to play your stalling game.
"Perhaps you mean foods that have not been certified organic"
Nah.
I mean inorganic.
That shit you eating ... is actually inorganic.
That shit you are squirting up your noses is inorganic.
Certified organic?
Certified by whom?
That's more Plantation nonsense.
DMG
I appreciate the concern, but a major part of me and my wife's journey in life is to face all of our fears. Look it dead in it's eyes-and say I LOVE.
VERY HARD DOC . Trust me moving away from allopathic medicine after 44 years has been tough, and not always easy.
Our kids are old enough to make their own decision. We are pass the fear of "nobody told us" point because nobody is mandated to.
The joy of being 100% responsible for your life and your life alone is the most amazing feeling in the world. There is just no going back into the matrix.
Accountability is the stuff that kills fear. I will blame no one else.
Namaste-
Oh come now Plantation Negro Doctor.
Why are you asking questions about natural foods you are not prepared to answer about Plantation drugs?
You sell far more pharmaceuticals than I sell Chia seeds.
Don't tell me you are just another Negro flunky pushing Massa's poisons while subverting the natural alternative & competition.
Already corporations are buying up farming land or striking up deals in South America and Africa to meet the consumer needs in the West.
No. Those African land grabs have nothing to do with meeting conventional western consumer needs. Americans waste 40% of their available processed food supply. The actual motive for non-american agro-colonialism is quite different from what motivates the U.S.
Barack Obama has not reversed the Bush policy on biofuels, despite food riots in a string of poor countries last year and calls for a moratorium. The subsidy of 45 cents per gallon remains.
The motive is strategic. America is weaning itself off imported energy at breakneck speed. It will not again be held hostage by oil demagogues, or humiliated by states that cannot feed themselves. Those Beijing students who laughed at US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner may not enjoy the last laugh. The US is the agricultural superpower. Foes will discover why that matters.
MOTI,
Let me help you out, because you never know when you'll be called upon to speak in front of a scientific panel, and you want your message to come across as sophisticated and articulate...right? Maybe you've never taken General or organic chemistry. Inorganic compounds generally are those that do not originate from biologic compounds...like minerals. Strictly and traditionally speaking these compounds don't contain Carbon at all (although there is some leeway on this requirement).
That ones for free...
Oh, I'm very able to answer. I just know you aren't. I'm going to sit here and watch you stall for awhile.
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
Waiting
Well, it's been several hours now, and I'll conclude that MOTI, our host has nothing to say.
Our host opened his mouth, made a statement, but did not have the tools to extricate his foot (size 12 did you say?) from his even bigger mouth. (...strange, that your foot is bigger than your mouth, but I digress).
Are you conceding, and thereby shutting the fuck up about Chia-seeds, or are you going to try to milk this one awhile longer?
Let a brother know, I'm trying to catch some basketball I have recorded on the DVR, and wouldn't want to miss your "evidence".
He'll wait around for someone else to supply his research. Just like you did with Big Man. It takes two to tango. Why don't you do your own homework on the chia seeds DMG? Then you can report on whether ANY of the sources you've seen championing their benefits have merit.
Mahndisa,
Give it a rest. What? You still feeling the sting because I told you to quit being lazy? For your information, I already did a search for Chia seeds and diabetes (although it was unnecessary).
I asked him a direct question, as he made a claim (that obviously has no merit, or background in science).
You are smart enough to know the difference. Go find your own argument, rather than insinuating yourself into this one.
Thanks.
DMG,you are being lazy. You have an opportunity to debunk some of the so called myths you see being advertised here, but all you do is toss about insults and use the same question dodging techniques that you accuse DV of using. Nigga Puleeze. You are supposed to be a doctor but I don't see you presenting information in an analytical fashion. You simply tell DV he is wrong because you said so, then put him up to prove his statements, which he NEVER EVER does, then you rail on him.
You know what the outcome will be every time you engage him. However, since you are a doctor, you can use some of your medical knowledge and present alternative streams of information.
For people who are serious but don't have time to peruse about chia seeds, anything you say might have merit because it is hard to find information about chia seeds on non advertising pages.
Instead you use this opportunity to throw cheap shots around. Too bad.
There is no insinuation into any argument. Arguments should have substance at the very least. This online discussion has not evolved into an argument. All I see is people tossing about insults. Like you.
Get real.
Mahndisa,
Seriously go away, I'm not interested in talking to you. I don't care about your opinion on this topic, you are annoying me. Is that clear enough? You had the opportunity to participate, but you blew it with your need to have someone pay attention to you.
I suppose our truce is over. Feel free to get the swears and uncreative insults out now...I won't read them anyway.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm waiting for our host to answer a direct question.
You ain't right DMG. You dead wrong. Consult your Geneva Convention handbook Bra before you make that choice.
You know that nobody stands a chance when you start to reach for your Roy Wilkins red, black and green jump suit.
That's your most devastating technique. It's impregnable. I barely survived it myself.
Doc, you aint smart enough to talk to the sister like that.
She called you out on something she found duplicitous. That's what we do here. We challenge each other. It's not personal. It's part of the process. You could either concede her point or point out it's flaws.
Going out of your way to insult Mahndisa is a lame hustle.
Just because that sista back at San Diego Tech left you for another brotha don't mean you got to take it out on every sista you encounter.
Now regarding your comical little "direct question".
I'll be happy to answer. I just want to make sure I am comparing apples to apples.
You work for a system that sells Billions worth of "diabetes drugs".
Can you please ... submit an example of this ... "verifiable and reproducible" evidence ... that these corporate pharmaceutical drugs actually help in the treatment of diabetes.
I want to make sure you are not holding me to a standard of proof you don't hold your massa.
You can understand that can't you?
Level playing field.
You know.
Not only am I smart enough, I just did. And shit, I'll do it again.
Now quit hiding behind women's skirts,lame ass "requests" and man the fuck up and answer the question.
Or are you truly the punk that I think you are?
Gee Chee,
Like you are the only who who knows Gil Scott Heron. At least you are trying. Most folks just phone it in. I complement you on your insult.
This long drawn out back n forth could've been cut in half if bof' o'y'all could just simply share whatchu know.
House Rule: Read it, share it, discuss it.
Simple.
Now DV, DMG et al, what do you think of this research on Chia seeds by Dr Vladimir Vuksan?
And, unrelated to diabetes, there's this list of some of the research that's been done on chia seeds.
Not doing anyone's 'homework', there's more to be gained in looking up the research rather than fightin' n fussin' abt looking up the research.
KW, now you just really did their homework for them. DV can refer to this study when allopathic types bother him for proof and DMG has a peer reviewed paper. The most relevant statement was this:
"CONCLUSIONS—Long-term supplementation with Salba attenuated a major cardiovascular risk factor (SBP) and emerging factors (hs-CRP and vWF) safely beyond conventional therapy, while maintaining good glycemic and lipid control in people with well-controlled type 2 diabetes."
"Seriously go away, I'm not interested in talking to you. I don't care about your opinion on this topic, you are annoying me. Is that clear enough? You had the opportunity to participate, but you blew it with your need to have someone pay attention to you."
The word truce is irrelevant. There was no truce between us.You simply agreed with some of the things I've said and not been as rude to me. You've still been condescending though. The only thing that I've done with you is act civil and asked you to contribute your opinion for what it's worth. All you've done is insult me, even DV defended my honor on this one. Your behavior is not becoming of someone who is a medically trained analyst. And I've always suspected that you aren't really a doctor at all. Nothing in your discourse would indicate that you are, given the insults and immaturity endemic in them!
Mahndisa,
What part of butt out did you not get? I tried saying it nicely, but you wouldn't take a hint. Save the crying and hurt feelings for someone who gives a shit. I'm not your man. And I'm not obligated to treat you nicely, feed your ego, or even acknowledge your existence (ask Thordaddy). I have been cool to you because lately you've been on point, and I've told you as much. Start with the crazy emotional stuff, and I'll let you know how I feel. Now quit moaning about your hurt feelings and get back to the point.
Your reading comprehension needs to be checked, as does your emotional intelligence. I am not moaning about anything. Save your hateful rants for someone who actually cares about what you may think. The only thing I ever asked you to do was to back up an assertion you made. Nothing more. Your approval is not needed, desired nor required.
You don't need to engage me unless it is exchanging information, I think you realize that. You are simply bored with nothing better to do so you launch with the insults. Get a life.
What would you like me to be Mahndisa? Homeless guy with a Physicians Desk Reference? Whatever makes you feel superior. I mean you were the secretary to a physician once right? You have a (imaginary) PhD in Statistics, right? Or was it Physics? If you want to be top dog again, have at it. I'll pretend to be whatever you like. How about garbage man who found a stash of medical books?
Actually I usually just skim or skip over your posts....cause I'm not that interested, when you are like this and want to MOVE THE CONVERSATION TO YOUR PERSONAL EMOTIONAL TANGENT. Get over it.
KW,
MOTI said he would answer a question going on what? 18 hours now. And I'm still waiting.
Not sure about anything Vuksan has said, as I've not read anything by him. I'll reserve judgement.
"Not doing anyone's 'homework', there's more to be gained in looking up the research rather than fightin' n fussin' abt looking up the research." KW
Sista Kay Duuub.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
I'm not convinced there is more to be gained "looking up research".
People look up and research what they want to believe.
There is "research" to support anything.
There is convincing "research" to support observable lies.
There is "research" to support "Global Warming".
There is peer reviewed "verifiable and reproducible" research that predicted a world-wide H1N1 Pandemic in 2009.
There is "research" which says Avandia is an effective and safe drug to treat diabetes.
There is research which says HIV is not "the" cause of AIDS.
There is "research" which suggests Bin Laden was responsible for 911.
There is "research" which says Israeli Intelligence was responsible for 911.
Presenting "research" to a Plantation MD about the usefulness of Chia seeds as a prevention of diabetes ... is like a Muslim presenting "research" to a Rabbi supporting the prophesies of The Prophet Mohammad.
DMG is not a thinker. He is a Thought Cop.
He is here to police thinking black people. To make us drive 55 and stay in the lanes designated by the authorities.
Controlling people's health is one of the most effective ways to control people.
DMG is for all intents and purposes a Plantation Medicine cop.
Therefor the question is not "research".
The question is about truth.
Which version of the truth are we going to accept?
Truth as defined by the Plantation?
Or are we going to accept truth defined by God?
To me truth defined by God is that truth we can observe.
That is the core of every battle here.
I reject the Plantation as the ultimate arbiter of truth.
Plantation Negros won't believe anything unless it is rubber stamped by the Plantation.
Which is why
DMG and I
Can't see eye to eye
rather eat shit and die
than eat factory Frankensteins
What is the truth defined by God, according to Denmark Vesey?
"What is the truth defined by God, according to Denmark Vesey?"
For that Big Man, I'd have to refer you to the Holy Bible, Qur’an, The Talmud, the Vedas, the Upanishads, Tao Te Ching & Biggie Smalls.
So you going to yap, or answer the question? I've waited patiently through your side show.
What's it going to be?
Yes DMG you are just tossing out insults again. Yes I said I was a medical secretary once but I've never said I have a phD in statistics or physics at all. Your ego is the size of mount Everest and your analytical capability is smaller than the diameter of a mold spore.
KW provided a very extensive list of links that show allopathic doctors could really benefit,along with their patients if they advised their patients to use chia seeds. These links show peer reviewed studies. Nothing to broadening your horizons.
As to the perception of being a top dog, Wow! I don't think in those terms and have never considered myself anything of the sort. Your statement was quite telling about YOU and how you view yourself. Clearly you have inadequacies and badmouthing and beating up on me somehow satisfies your need to feel superior.
Of course the last ditch effort of a male chauvanist is to call the woman who is calling him out emotional. Save it and get over your ego, lest you trip on it.
DV
You a funny cat.
Big Ups Big Man! Big Ups.
DMG ... don't act like you didn't hear me.
I will be more than happy to provide the "verifiable and reproducible" evidence that Chia Seeds are beneficial in the effort to prevent diabetes ... just as soon as you provide a link to an example of "verifiable and reproducible" evidence that any of the billions of dollars of Diabetes Drugs sold & approved by your profession.
That shouldn't be hard at all.
You are a doctor.
Millions of Americans take the drugs your profession sells.
You wouldn't sell / prescribe these Diabetes drugs if you were not familiar with the "verifiable and reproducible" evidence that they are effective in treating diabetes.
Please post a link. That way I will have a goal. A Target. A Standard of proof that you would find acceptable.
Without that D.. M ... G ... I'm convinced anything I submitted would be dismissed or reduced out of bitchy afraid-to-lose spite.
You can understand what I'm saying can't you?
Cool.
So.
Link to "verifiable and reproducible" that Avandia is effective in treating diabetes: _______________________________ ?
I will paste a link 10 minutes after you do.
Cool?
My man.
Mahndisa,
And?
MOTI,
I'm not providing shit, until you answer the question...LIKE A MAN. But, you can't so hence the epic stalling tactics (which are 3rd grade at best). Who do you think you are fooling? Not even your hype-men can whole-heartedly back you on this.
I asked you a direct question. You've pursed your lips, put your hands on your hips and started tossing out inane demands. All that stuff about physician's prescribing medication etc, etc, is fair game, sure. But you've been asked a direct QUESTION about a grand statement made by you, and you punked out. It's plain, simple, and clear for EVERYONE TO SEE. YOU CANNOT ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Why?
Because you don't have anything to offer on this subject, other than grand statements made, and made up by you.
I believe this case is closed.
You lose. Deal with it.
The case was closed when KonWomyn graciously provided legitimate links to publications that show that chia seeds most likely have health benefits.
DV's question about a rubric for acceptable evidence was reasonable.
If this really was a debate, rubrics should be established in these matters. Otherwise, someone can claim their Mother as a source on par with the New England Journal of Medicine on a medical issue!
However, this was just a thread that degenerated into posturing, which is sad and unbecoming of someone who claims to be a physician.
You wrote so much about absolutely nothing DMG. With all that space you could have shown your perspective via a peer reviewed study, a talk, paragraphs from a textbook could have been cited etc. After all you claim to be an expert. Instead, all I see is someone who comes here to taunt people who he deems less intelligent than himself. This is from your earlier comments today.
You offer nothing constructive, nor do you offer solutions. Instead of having a combative attitude about chia seeds, why not give your medical opinion about the literature you've come across on their merits? That would be a constructive use of your time.
Otherwise you come off as someone who is out of control.
^^ 145 words and all he needed was 1 link.
You asked me a question. I asked for a comparable example before I answered. To make sure you weren't conducting another bitchy wild goose chase.
You have resorted to corny insults.
Same thing you did with Mahndisa.
Come on man. I'd love to answer. People need to know this.
Please submit an example of acceptable "evidence".
Don't runaway with your ball: _________________ ?
Mahndisa and MOTI,
You realize that you two have been dismissed, right?
Go home. It's done. You both played yourselves for all to see.
Classic avoidance of the issue at hand by acting dismissive. The thought distortions are pretty serious today huh doc?
Sure, whatever you say Dr. Rigmaiden.
With all of that yammering you could have had something of worth to say. But instead made an ass of yourself. Whatever you say dr. mg.
Mahndisa,
Since this thread has lost it's original meaning, would you like to just have a good old knock down drag out? I mean you keep pestering me on every thread, I'm assuming you'd like some attention?
But can we make this quick? I have a son and a new puppy to spend some time with.
I'll even let you go first.
What you propose is beyond ridiculous DMG. I just put my son down for a nap. Go play with yours.
Good choice. I'll let you have the last word, to bring us to an even 100 posts.
Deleted by author
For all the political and economic uncertainties about health reform, at least one thing seems clear: The bill that President Obama signed on Tuesday is the federal government’s biggest attack on economic inequality since inequality began rising more than three decades ago.—NYT
Only if you believe in voodoo economics. The healthcare industry stimulus package, even with its positive attributes, does no such thing as attack economic inequality. Even Robert “The De-Regulator” Reich, in a rare moment of truth said: "don't believe anyone who says Obama's healthcare legislation marks a swing of the pendulum back toward the Great Society and the New Deal. Obama's health bill is a very conservative piece of legislation, building on a Republican (a private market approach) rather than a New Deal foundation. The New Deal foundation would have offered Medicare to all Americans or, at the very least, featured a public insurance option."
About 23 million people will remain uninsured nine years out resulting in an estimated 23,000 unnecessary deaths annually. One-third of these will be undocumented immigrants who will be excluded from purchasing private insurance.
Millions of people who are not eligible for public health insurance programs Medicaid and Medicare will be pressured to buy commercial health insurance policies costing up to 9.5 percent of their income but covering an average of only 70 percent of their medical expenses, potentially leaving them vulnerable to financial ruin if they become seriously ill. Many will find such policies too expensive to afford or, if they do buy them, too expensive to use because of the high co-pays and deductibles.
Those remaining uninsured will be fined up to 2.5% of their income.
Insurance firms will be handed at least $447 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize the purchase of their shoddy products. This money will enhance their financial and political power, and with it their ability to block future reform.
The bill will drain about $40 billion from Medicare payments to safety-net hospitals, threatening the care of the tens of millions who will remain uninsured.
People with employer-based coverage will be locked into their plan’s limited network of providers, face ever-rising costs and erosion of their health benefits. As the cost of insurance grows, they will BE TAXED ON THEIR BENEFITS. (Now that’s the way to attack economic inequality—reduce the income of working people)
Health care costs will continue to skyrocket, as the experience with the Massachusetts plan (after which this bill is patterned) amply demonstrates. The industry lobbying group, American Health Insurance Plans, came just short of announcing the industry’s next rate increase in its brief statement in response to the bill: “The access expansions are a significant step forward, but this legislation will exacerbate the health care costs crisis facing many working families and small businesses.”
The much-vaunted insurance regulations – e.g. ending denials on the basis of pre-existing conditions – are riddled with loopholes, thanks to the central role that insurers played in crafting the legislation. Older people can be charged up to three times more than their younger counterparts, and large companies with a predominantly female workforce can be charged higher gender-based rates at least until 2017.
It allows insurers to expand so-called wellness programs that let insurers penalize subscribers by hundreds—and even thousands—of dollars for not meeting certain ‘wellness targets,’ such as a particular cholesterol number, blood sugar measurement or body-weight target.—Healthcare—NOW
As regards the topic of this thread, one of the reasons the insurance industry struck a deal with President Obama last August was because they wanted to expand their coverage base to include previously uninsured healthy young people by forcing them to buy their insurance policies. That’s a done deal. Ching-Ching.
An interesting aesthetic of some of these videos posted on youtube about holistic health are done as people are walking as oppose to sitting and lounging, inactivity.
Makheru,
Nice post. I agree the new law isn't ideal. What type of Bill do you think would make it through the gauntlet of Congress?
What's your opinion on this plan? Every US citizen is covered for all life saving, life sustataining, and preventive care (emphasis--I'd like to see wellness centers, where people could go and learn about eating right, exercising etc). No bill, no deductible. Care is based on best available evidence.
"The healthcare industry stimulus package" Mak B
Nice.
"As regards the topic of this thread, one of the reasons the insurance industry struck a deal with President Obama last August was because they wanted to expand their coverage base to include previously uninsured healthy young people by forcing them to buy their insurance policies. That’s a done deal. Ching-Ching." Mak B
^^Average Plantation Negro doesn't get that part.
MOTI,
This threads gotten pretty long and off track, why don't you make another health insurance thread or something?
Makheru,
Read this article by Mish, Bro.
"It is only after this bill is law for 5 or 10 years that we will begin to understand its effects. I believe they will be:
1. Costs far greater than anyone is the Government is letting us know. I challenge to name 3 government programs that cost what the government claimed they would. I can't think of one, except, I think I read, the prescription drug bill.
2. Like Mass. the costs will increase greatly on an annual basis.
3. The quality of medicine will drop drastically. Can you name me a single government program of this size that actually improves anything. Feds got into schools and they got worse, Feds got into energy and the situation is worse.
This is the governments track record:
1. Social Security we can’t pay for.
2. Medicare we can’t pay for.
3. Prescription drug we can’t pay for.
4. Spend more money on education than any other nation in the world and many kids, especially in inner cities can’t read their diploma.
5. Criminal justice system that produces criminal injustice.
6. Can’t defend our borders, even banana republics can do that.
7. Country hopelessly in Debt.
8. Economy on the verge of destruction.
9. Encourages lending to people who can’t pay loans back.
10. Encouraged casino risk taking by removing moral hazard, which is the trigger that set of the current catastrophe and now further eliminates moral hazard by guaranteeing bank loans to one another.
Most Americans have apparently become aware of the ineptitude of government. Those who haven't are the ones who think this health care bill will be a good thing for America."
Yo DMG, “EMBRACE” looks like a good plan. I would like to see a peer review of that plan by the healthcare providers and others who support HR 676.
Yo Hot Wax, that is a very interesting article>
"Taxing the subsidy means that more companies will eliminate or reduce the coverage, and more retirees will shift to Medicare Part D, which will create more cost for both the government and the retirees, the companies wrote in their letter.”
Along those lines, I’m sure you saw the move by AT&T today.
[AT&T Inc. will take a $1 billion non-cash charge in the first quarter because of the health care overhaul and may cut benefits it offers to current and retired workers.
The charge is the largest disclosed so far. Earlier this week, AK Steel Corp., Caterpillar Inc., Deere & Co. and Valero Energy announced similar accounting charges, saying the health care law that President Barack Obama signed Tuesday will raise their expenses.
The telecommunications company also said it is looking into changing the health care benefits it offers because of the new law. Analysts say retirees could lose the prescription drug coverage provided by their former employers as a result of the overhaul.]
Did anyone, other than the New York Times and the people who believe their propaganda, really believe that the oligarchs would not find ways to transfer their losses to the tax payers, and punish their workers/retirees in the process?
Makheru,
If you go to Annals of Internal Medicine webpage, you might be able to find the "Letters to the Editor" on the piece. From what I gathered most of the HR 676 people didn't want to consider EMBRACE because they were all for single payer only. Now, I'm for Single Payer, but I also know that it doesn't have a snow balls chance in Hell. I think Conyers knows this too. However, the people who wrote EMBRACE all came out of the single payer camp.
I chatted with the lead author by email and Facebook, tried to tell him that his lobbying skills and PR for EMBRACE needed to be improved. I think something like EMBRACE will have to wait until the idea of everybody being covered has sunken in.
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