New Pew Findings: African Americans and religionAmong the Pew findings: Eighty-seven percent of African-Americans say they belong to a particular religious group, compared to 83 percent among the total population.
Seventy-nine percent say religion is "very important” in their lives, compared to 56 percent of the total population. Fifty-three percent say they attend religious services at least once a week, compared to 39 percent of the total population. 66% say they pray at least on a daily basis, compared to 58 percent of the total population. Eighty-eight percent say they are absolutely certain that God exists, compared to 71 percent of the total population.
The religious portrait of African-Americans reveals that they are overwhelmingly Protestant (78 percent), with 59 percent belonging to historically black churches. Only 12 percent of African-Americans are not affiliated with any particular religion; 5 percent are Catholic; 1 percent are Jehova’s Witnesses; 1 percent are Muslim; 1 percent are atheist or agnostic; and small fractions are in other faiths.
Brian Langhorne said ...
I have noticed something interesting in my time as an atheist activist. Black atheists seem to have more animosity toward their religious counterparts, and vice-versa, than whites. The black atheists I know seem to be very frustrated, specifically with black Christians, for adopting the same religion that was used to support slavery. On the other hand, black Christians seem to be far more entrenched in their religion, almost as if religion is a part of black culture, so by rejecting religion they see black atheists as rejecting far more than JUST the idea of god.This is just personal observation, but I’d really like to know more if anyone has noticed this.Thordaddy said ...
Atheism isn't just a "belief" in "nothing." It's an assertion that is self-refuting. In short, "intellectual" atheists are liars.When an atheist says, "God does not exist," he does not escape the consequences of his assertion. He can not escape the fact that his "atheism" is THE assertion that Absolute Truth does not exist. And because such a thing as Absolute Truth is the NECESSARY CREATION of a God, he can not escape the conclusion that to live by "atheist" principle is to concede that all that an "atheist" puts forth as "truth" is fundamentally fraudulent.
125 comments:
I don't know if black atheists have more animosity, but I do agree that one of their common complaints is the one about the "slave master's religion." From what I can tell, white atheists are very aggressive as well.
I also agree that many black people feel that a belief in God is an integral part of being a true black person. It seems that given the massive amount of crap that black people have overcome despite overwhelming odds, we're more likely to believe that there is a God helping us.
What ya talkin' about, my big child? I LOVE slavery. Look into my WORD. Torah, Bible, Old Testament, New Testament, Quran - everywhere I sanction slavery.
my observation is that modern day religion (particularly christianity) is part parcel of the plantation agenda
at the center of this religion is the doctrine of salvation of the soul
it estimates that your soul needs saving from sin/eternal death (destined fate of man) and only believing in JC is the answer to counter that fate
the prevailing condition of black people coupled with our inherent desire to connect with spirit (GOD)has caused many if not most black people to fall prey to this modern day system of religion that keeps them in spiritual bondage
this bondage gives one an illusion of being spiritual but with no power to act spiritually
so i can understand some black folks who reject the idea of christian theology (GOD)as it is a manipulation of truth (historically and naturally)
"theists" not only believes in a transcendant god with revelation but also have been presumptuous to attempt to ascribe to GOD the human emotions, feelings, and characteristics even down to the pettiest qualities of mankind such as jealousy, susceptibility to flattery, praise, desire for offerings and worship
the latter part of the definition is the "HOOK" to spiritual bondage and the former is ignored
Just to clarify terminology here...when you say "atheist" you are really referring to a denial of the existence of the Judeo-Christian god Jehovah. Am I correct?
"Just to clarify terminology here...when you say "atheist" you are really referring to a denial of the existence of the Judeo-Christian god Jehovah. Am I correct?"
yes DMG
that's the distinction "i" make and have always tryd to make....
i understand the "traditional" definition but IMO its incomplete without including that latter part
Atheism isn't just a "belief" in "nothing." It's an assertion that is self-refuting. In short, "intellectual" atheists are liars.
When an atheist says, "God does not exist," he does not escape the consequences of his assertion. He can not escape the fact that his "atheism" is THE assertion that Absolute Truth does not exist. And because such a thing as Absolute Truth is the NECESSARY CREATION of a God, he can not escape the conclusion that to live by "atheist" principle is to concede that all that an "atheist" puts forth as "truth" is fundamentally fraudulent.
god
If you have truly read the Bible and taking away that God sanctions slavery and thinks it's a good thing, then you suck at reading comprehension.
My big child, I say onto you:
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
By the way. I also LOVE raping and pillaging. Oh, and flooding the whole world and killing millions of women, children and men because I don't like their lifestyle.
When I come to you, I will not come to you in a red cloak with horns sticking from my head. I will come disguised as good. Disguised as your friend. I will pretend to be God while I do devilish things. I will confuse you with corrupted scripture and attribute it to God. I will corrupt your ministers and have them pretend to be men of God. You will eventually lose faith in the creator God. You will doubt the existence of a loving forgiving God. In this absence of faith I will occupy this vacuum and you will eventually serve me.
Ahhhh Lucifer. Stop making yourself more important than you are, fool. You're my creation and since I'm all-knowing and all-powerful there ain't nothing that you are doing that I didn't intend for you to do. I, am your GOD and the sole source of your power.
I am important! I am necessary! I was a murderer from the beginning, I do not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in me. Whenever I speak a lie, I speak from my own nature; for I am a liar, and the father of lies.
This is now the Luciferian Age and mankind has joined in rebellion against it's creator.
My minions, who publicly exclaim allegiance to the creator God have been given free reign to lead people into hell on earth in the shape of a diabolical One World tyrannical state. LOL I have made the United Nations an international temple at which humanity, through it's political and religious leaders pays homage to me, the Light Bearer - Lucifer.
Like I said, if you read that scripture, or the book of Philemon, and came away with and endorsement of slavery, then you suck at reading comprehension.
Sadly, cats read one of, if not the most complex book in human history and tend to take its scriptures out of context despite faulty translations and pure ignorance about the societal norms of the times.
That's a damn shame.
If you think the Bible is simple, then you are simple.
You're necessary at my whim, fool. Everything you do you do with my approval. You are but my vassal. Since you are my creation and you are evil, evil is my creation, not yours. The source of evil is me, your one true all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present GOD. So get a hold of yourself.
My big child. I WROTE the Bible. I know what is in it. In the original Greek and Aramaic version. I am not a mere cat, I am GOD. If you do not think that I am GOD, the God of the Torah and the Bible, then tell me why you would come to this fatuous conclusion.
Atheism is not merely a disbelief in the judeo-christian god. It is a rejection that supernatural beings exist. No Thor, no Osiris, no Allah, no Jehovah, no Jupiter. But most of you will deny the existence of one or more deities on that list anyway, so technically you are all atheists.
It is philosophically impossible to be an atheist DMG.
To be an atheist you must have infinite knowledge in order to know absolutely that there is no God.
But to have infinite knowledge, you would have to be God yourself.
It's hard to be God yourself and an atheist at the same time.
"To be an atheist you must have infinite knowledge in order to know absolutely that there is no God."
So, if I make up my own god and say that if you don't believe in him/her/it that you'll spend eternity being forced to have goat sex are you going to suddenly join my cult? Because that's pretty much what Christians are doing.
But they deny the existence of Allah, Odin, the Great Spirit, and proclaim their god as the only god. Based on what? Based on "I said so". I've read the Bible cover to cover more than once...it offers no proof that the Judeo-Christian god is the one true god, or even exists (please show me the evidence in the Bible...).
Can I disprove the existence of a creature that to humans is godlike? It's a big Universe.
First, please tell me how you've disproven the existence of Odin? Then prove the Christian god exists.
Atheism isn't just "philosophically impossible," it's a LOGICAL REFUTATION OF ITSELF.
God is either real and then conceived by man via empirical evidence or God does not exist BUT WAS STILL CONCEIVED BY MAN VIA EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.
Meaning, one way or another God was experienced through empirical evidence and the scientist's claim (there is no empirical evidence for the existence of God) on which atheism stands is false. The atheist has no recourse. He can attempt to claim that the inconceivable is conceivable without benefit of empirical evidence, but such an admission undercuts thoroughly his own atheism as he ASSERTS God's existence before he neurotically attempts to DENY His existence.
There is no "evidence". So Agnostic is the fair term, meaning not necessarily lacking belief but lacking knowledge of a vague higher entity.
Can there be moral grounding without a belief in a God?
Considering the fact that not all believers in the biblical God have the same set of morals, is God even clear about his moral grounding?
DMG,
You're still at level one. Can you perform heart surgery before you can stitch?
Why worry about the details when you're still lost where it concerns foundations?
If God does not exist then all that you spew is forever uncertain EVEN IF you pretend to be speaking "truth." Even the most novice physicist leaves room for eternal uncertainty in all that he proposes concerning physics.
And therein lies the rub. Foundationally, as an atheist, YOU ARE ETERNALLY UNCERTAIN AS YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
You can not escape the consequences of your stance. You can only attempt to hide your atheism so as to give your "details" more clout. Of course, your "details," by your own admission, are enveloped in doubt and uncertainty.
NEA,
There is no real conscious disbelief in God. There are ignorant "atheists" and then there are radical autonomists (extreme liberals) that merely use the atheist title as a mechanism to do things unimpeded. Meaning, their "atheism" is just a rationale to go against the natural order of things.
For instance, the atheist doctor above who thinks he can ACTUALLY BE a doctor and an atheist at the same time. As though in all those times he was in charge of saving a life or alleviating suffering, he merely referenced the mental textbook and virtual lectures to get the job done.
The reality is that only a cold, empty fool "saves lives" just as "a job." And of course, what good is a doctor who's very foundation is one of doubt and uncertainty?
DMG
We had this discussion before I think.
If you're looking for definitive proof, you won't find it. Nor does an intelligent Christian claim to have it. Nor does the Bible claim to provide it.
If you've read it cover to cover many times you are well aware of the concept of faith, and what it pertains to. You understand that faith is the underpinning of the entire Christian belief system.
As far as Christians believing our God is the only god, well that's a common trait for most religions and most people. Most religions believe they offer the correct path to spiritual enlightenment.
If you reject God because there is no definitive proof he exists, that means you have decided to reject the accounts of the eyewitnesses to his existence. You may justify this disbelief based on a belief on other sources of information, but it's still based on a personal belief, or faith.
You cannot definitive disprove the existence of God just like I can't prove his existence. To reject his existence, or become frustrated because some people believe they know the truth about him seems silly to me. You believe the truth cannot be known, I believe it can, what is the big deal? Both of us will find out eventually whether we were right or wrong.
Big Man,
Of course there is no definitive proof. You can't prove the N'avi from the Avatar movie don't exist on some distant planet either. Nor can you disprove that Darth Vader is not at this moment choking out some Stormtrooper around the Naboo system. I think you get my point.
But more importantly, why is it assumed that we are only discussing the Judeo-Christian god? Why do you assume that his/her existence is any more valid than our ancestors native gods 1,000 years ago?
Faith.
Faith that the multiple human writers of the bible were all transcribing the word of "god" faithfully, rather than the words of some monk or making it up as they went?
Faith that the fairytales/stories your parents, preachers and slavemaster before him weren't jerking your chain?
Faith that the kidnappers who stole our forefathers had our best interest at heart when they told our ancestors all that they knew, believed, and worshipped was wrong?
That the faith you talking about?
OK, tell me why you believe Jehovah is real and Osiris is not. And what do you say to someone who has "faith" that their god is real and yours is not.
I reject your "God" for the same reason I reject all gods. There's nothing special about yours. I'm not saying you should too. That's your business.
"If you reject God because there is no definitive proof he exists, that means you have decided to reject the accounts of the eyewitnesses to his existence."
There were no eyewitnesses. Just stories about witnessing events.
There's no big deal. I still want to know what you got against Osiris and Odin.
Ummm... DMG, the "Michael Fisher" above looks to be Josh Farst a/kkk/a "Thordaddy". I would never utter such nonsense
IMO there is plenty of evidence of the judeo christian faith and all religious faiths for that matter originating from african spiritual concepts
authors: anthony browder, john henrik clarke, chancellor williams, naim akbar, yosef ben-jochannan, cheikh ania diop, i can go on and on and on....
millions of people who follow the judeo christian faith claim that the bible is the inerrant "word of god" (i used to be one of them)
i know now that these millions who believe that just aint thinking at all...and are slaves to the Religious Industrial Complex
i feel DMG's skepticism and IMO its warranted
no one should "believe" just because the plantation says so (thats dangerous today)
atheist is a term that is not clearly defined for lots of folks and sometimes IMO they are rejecting the plantation meme of religious salvation through JC and unfortunately throw out the baby with the bathwater (that's easy to do)
its also equally easy to hide behind the "i'm a man/woman of god" and become intellectually lazy, pulling on the hem of JC's garment for a handout to heaven
i know that routine all too well...
i feel that errybody should be free to study and test for themselves all claims of the existence of GOD
then come to their own conclusion
DMG says,
"Of course there is NO definitive proof."
LOL!
You ASSERT God's existence before YOU DENY God's existence and still think that atheism is a valid position?
How does DMG KNOW about God and all His essence if He doesn't exist and never did?
How does one conceive the inconceivable?
He says somebody told him so...
But how did that dude KNOW about God?
How did he conceive the inconceivable?
Take it back AS IS REQUIRED BY YOUR EVOLUTIONARY THEORY and tell us how the FIRST DUDE came to KNOW God?
How did he conceive the inconceivable?
What...? He made up the God meme with absolutely "NO empirical evidence" at his disposal?
How did he conceive the inconceivable?
Fisher,
I only write under my own name.
You understand that faith is the underpinning of the entire Christian belief system.
Wrong.
metanoia is the underpinning of Christian praxis.
everything else is ignorant and superstitious conversation.
Both of us will find out eventually whether we were right or wrong.
No you won't.
There's nothing permanent in you.
Nothing up to the challenge of surviving a sound sleep of the body, much less the body's actual death.
As your little feeble spark of awareness is extinguished during sound sleep, so also, upon the death of your body, this little metaphorical cursor will simply and permanently cease to exist.
Period.
^^^And these liberal "Christians" think a "belief in nothing" has no real world consequence.
Damn CNu... You sound absolutely sure about your last statement there. How?
Nea,
Because at the end of the day CNu is a radical autonomist. He seeks supremacy and denies its Origin. Meaning, he seeks to subordinate you through a process (praxis) of asserting and denying SUPREMACY. His goal is to drive you to doubt the Truth of Supremacy. Yet he strives and self-refutes. He has purpose when he doesn't. He's a believer with no faith. He orders towards the empirical evidence while denying its existence.
This is high grade radical autonomy.
Knowledge of everything, yet nothing to know.
lol..,
Same way you are NEA,
routine, first-hand experience.
unencumbered by wishful or magical thinking.
STFU peasant.
Grown folks talking here - and you have nothing whatsoever of value to add to the discussion.
Lol!
It's as though you are my own self-created foil. Assert supremacy and then deny supremacy, repeat.
CNu???
Nothing...
NEA,
What CNothing means by "magical thinking" is the metanoia of Christianity. The idea that we all are in need of forgiveness and only God can supply such repentance.
The alternate view is much starker.
CNothing says he does not need forgiveness or that the forgiveness he needs can be fulfilled by individual persons. But as a pro-abortionist, is that really true? Does his experience mirror others? Do you need a forgiveness that has the authority to mean a chance for free will? Who could provide that?
In 10 minutes, a comedian can tell you more about what it do, than centuries of pathological liars and magical thinking lunatics combined...,
So Joe Rogan tells us of the most powerful of psychological drug, dmt...
Then tells us it takes us into a different dimension...
Recommends its use...
And then says we're "bacteria."
That's CNothing in a nutshell.
For the record, I'm not absolutely sure about anything when it comes to a God. I don't claim to know. I just don't know.
NEA,
What do you mean, you "don't know?" You talk about God and you know His attributes. Is it more "rational" to then assert God does not exist?
it's amazin' how much circumnavigatin' goes on when it comes to the subject of GOD
I'm with you Nea.
But "knowing" is overrated.
Like cats who "know" how to build a clock, but don't know what time it is.
Some cats "know" of photosynthesis.
But can't grow a tomato.
Debating the existence of God is like debating the existence of daylight.
No need to argue. Just open your eyes.
lol..,
no peasant.
You and your ilk hate, fear and do violence toward the comedian's simple truths.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Luke 13:20,21 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Rogan is correct in his observation that the healthy, productive parts of our organism have that nature.
you, and everything like you, on the other hand, comprises a necrotic cancerous mass acutely in need of excision from the body human..,
Can there be moral grounding without a belief in a God?
of course....,
DV,
That's why the debate isn't about God's existence (that's a no-brainer), but rather, how atheists use their first principle to manipulate and "order" society while denying their "belief" means anything.
We can only assume CNothing is an atheist. He doesn't make it unequivocal and for good reason, too.
"What do you mean, you "don't know?" You talk about God and you know His attributes. Is it more "rational" to then assert God does not exist?"
Yes I know what a "God" is. I'm talking about existence and all the variations of beliefs. No it's not more rational to say he doesn't exist.
Like I said before, belief is separate from knowledge. Never said I don't believe.
For the record, I'm not absolutely sure about anything when it comes to a God. I don't claim to know. I just don't know.
Then study and work.
Because without knowing, there is no possibility of doing.
Help is available if you earnestly seek it out.
"What do you mean, you "don't know?" Nea
Meaning instead of knowing daylight ... I bask in the sun.
NEA,
I will paraphrase from John Henderson;
We are all “cookies” in the same ‘Great Kitchen,’ but in various stages of what is called ‘being done.’ Now, some cookies never make it past the stage of being formed of raw dough, and so, not being cooked or otherwise much used, at the “End of the Day” are simply and abruptly folded back into the bowl of amorphous cookie dough and put into the fridge to be used a wee bit here or there, again, perhaps tomorrow, or the next day, and the next, and even the day after that – and so on. Others, by chance, have wandered into some leaky old low-temperature oven where they begin to take on solidity of sorts, but only of sorts, and it is an excruciatingly slow process.
Practicing Christians avail themselves of the skills of a Master Chef.
The Chef will ‘Cook’ you – first adding certain special secret ingredients which will not only make you much more tasty food for the gods, but, if you do everything just right on your part, you will find that as a result of certain spices included in his recipe you will come out of his really hot oven no longer just an ordinary cookie, but one in possession of both a subjectivised being and objective consciousness. Conscious cookies, as you might well imagine, are rare and much too valuable to be wasted as mere snack food.
No, such cookies are not eaten, but are immediately put to work as part of the kitchen staff. Now, I don’t know what you may think of that more realistic afteroven
description; one must admit it isn’t nearly as much fun as the more popular “Santa Claus” style fantasies, but I do think it preferable to being eaten, or to meandering through this cosmos-sized kitchen a lost and wandering soul trying every leaky old oven encountered, hoping to finally find a way to get ‘done.’
And keep in mind that, as a member of the kitchen staff, there is always the possibility of career advancement. That is, as a Kitchen-boy possessing objective consciousness, your future will be bright.
"But "knowing" is overrated."
if you mean a mental accent with regard to information ie "education/religious instruction" then i agree
however there must be a "knowing" of God in principle...and being principled which is much deeper...its a truth that resonates with ones spirit (mind) that transcends mere mental accent (head knowledge) to avoid ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth
it (knowing) that gives the principle meaning and purpose in a correct order that is wholly beneficial to the one who submits to it
plantation religious systems are soooo corrupt there is no need IMO to keep trodding down that same path tryin to make sense out of a corrupt system (nonsense)
we are free to seek and search for our selves
it might not be a debate amongst us about the existence or faith in/of GOD but there is a debate nontheless
DV i can see and feel the sun most folks can but what they cant see and feel is the unknown that takes a different kind of knowledge (sight and sense)
Again, these cats are playing on atheist terms. God exists. We all know it and we all talk about Him. Atheists can't account for this other than to say psychadelic drugs can take us to another dimension and therefore some dude way back when made God up.
NEA, knowing God's attributes (Supremacy, Omnipotence, Omnipresience) is one incredible feat in a material world where nothing is known without empirical evidence. Where is the empirical evidence for Supremacy, Omnipotence and Omnipresience?
Atheists want to have their cake and eat it too.
i would think the empirical evidence spoken of is mere theory or leap of faith to one who has not the eye salve to see the connection
thats why i think it takes more than just "SEE"
particularly since the additional brainwashing that has been going on for milleniums
im quite sure all who are claiming to know God were once blind to the divine
not seeking to make excuses for folks who cant SEE but stating a reality that exists in our world
dx,
I don't think it is so much about knowing God as it is recognizing that He is Intelligible and therefore the idea of God being an autonomous god is a radical notion because it basically asserts that God is unintelligible.
Again, His existence isn't the issue as most "atheists" are for show and readily ASSERT god's existence before denying God's existence.. Most "atheists" believe in an autonomous god. It serves the same purpose and allows the advocate to assert his own self-refutation.
This is why CNu won't say unequivocally that he believes God doesn't exist. He knows it to be a self-refutation and he seeks a supremacy that has no empirical existence. Yet, some how this "nonbeliever" strives for that which can only be ordered by Supremacy.
how would "most atheist" assert belief in an autonomous god? when they indicate their disbelief in the existence
and what is an autonomous god?
and i would think that one would "know" that GOD is intelligible
your position is a bit confusing
Let me just say this people. I know it may seem too simple for some, but I believe in a "God" (my God) because I just didn't see a gain in the alternative. Nada. But I had to live and see first-hand what it is like to be a non-believer. I was miserable. At the end of the day, it is for the "greater good" as TD says. Just my opinion, please don't jump on me. Thanks
dx,
When an atheist says, "the flying spaghetti monster does not exist," he is not saying there is "no empirical evidence" for the flying spaghetti monster. That would be absurd as it is clearly false.
But when an atheist says, "God does not exist," he says so standing on the back of the scientist who claims, "no empirical evidence for God exists.
The problem of course is one must explain, scientifically-speaking, how this is done?
How does one conceive of the inconceivable without benefit of empirical evidence? Clearly, none of us has a problem articulating the essence of God (Supremacy, Omnipotence, Omnipresience) EVEN THOUGH no empirical evidence exists for such attributes.
In short, the atheist is for show and when he is exposed he will almost certainly turn into a believer in an autonomous god(s) which conveniently necessitates the idea that such a god is unknowable and unintelligible.
CNu,
BTW, that's an interesting link you posted about moral grounding and biology. Could be. But where does biology come from?
That should go into a discussion of nature vs nurture or a discussion about the commonalities beliefs have.
You have the most interesting and almost always appropriate links. You're awesome!
lol...,
I'm just kitchen help NEA.
The answer to your question is waaaaaay beyond my pay grade.
I tend to wrestle with simple questions like, "What is music?"
However. others wrestle with big questions like yours.
Here is one of the most interesting and fruitful approaches with which I'm familiar.
Enjoy!
[quote]The black atheists I know seem to be very frustrated, specifically with black Christians, for adopting the same religion that was used to support slavery.[/quote]
Brian:
What you have observed is IGNORANCE. There is NOTHING within the Christian religion that you can point to that enabled those who call themselves CHRISTIANS to do as they did to the African. What you the world saw was a PERVERSION of Christianity and too many silent Christians who were complicit.
[quote]On the other hand, black Christians seem to be far more entrenched in their religion, almost as if religion is a part of black culture[/quote]
This is also incorrect.
It is the "DOGMA of Religion" in the form of "spirituality" that is entrenched in the Black culture.
Take a list of strictures from "GOD" and hold them up to the Negro and demand that he OBEY. You will see the fastest exodus from a particular religion in recorded history.
KCNulan = Pure Educated IGNORANCE!!!
[quote]As your little feeble spark of awareness is extinguished during sound sleep, so also, upon the death of your body, this little metaphorical cursor will simply and permanently cease to exist.[/quote]
The atheist evolutionist is strongest at their ability to explain away religious dogma and intelligent design.
Their cards fold as they are pressed to explain the ORIGIN OF MAN and LIFE ITSELF.
One such person was pressed on the subject by an interviewer who would not relinquish his line of questioning as he stepped backward asking more atomic details. FINALLY the abstract theorist who proclaimed that the Christian notion of the "magical creator" was ridiculous told us that LIFE ON EARTH was created when bacteria that was carried in the SLUSHY PORTION of an asteroid CRASHED INTO THE EARTH and thus initiated the EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS.
Stay on top of KC Nulan and you too can get him to spout some Wacky Sh_t just the same.
An architecture which attempts to mask its IGNORANCE by erecting an elaborate scheme that is intended to impress the observer via its machinations is little different than the rapid hand movements of the "Three Card Monte" game that can be played on the street corner of most large metropolises.
lol,
why Ronald A. Barr, you suburban coonservative madcap.
Still mad, jealous, and pokin out them big greasy DSL's cause I took your $20 over on Spring St....?
That's what it do in the big city son!
DMG
I brought up Christianity because that was the religion discussed most often on the thread, and from our earlier interaction, I know how you feel about "the slavemaster's religion.'
Just a note, every organized religion has been advanced through the use of violence at some point in history. Every, single one.
If you equate the Bible with fairy tales and children's stories, so be it. I don't see it that way.
If you think the Bible is about faith in men, then you've missed the point. The first leap of faith is believing in an omnipotent God. Once you make that leap, how difficult would it be for that God to do anything?
"Just a note, every organized religion has been advanced through the use of violence at some point in history. Every, single one"
And you wonder why I don't believe in your gods?
My Big Child. You speak the Lord's truth when you say "The first leap of faith is believing in an omnipotent God. Once you make that leap, how difficult would it be for that God to do anything?"
Here I am using the internet and this blog to speak to you, my child. It is I your GOD, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent.
Do not doubt me, do not doubt my presence, for you have faith. Dismiss my presence here at your own peril. I know you have severe doubts that I am your Lord, the Creator of All.
Thus tell me, my Big Child: Do you want me to provide proof for my presence, the presence of your true and only GOD, here commenting on this blog topic?
DMG,
Dude, you hell-Harry-ass. What if DV said he doesn't need to follow your Medicine because that stuff literally TELLS mothers that killing their child in utero is a "fundamental right." Meaning, according to YOUR medicine, a mother who EXERCISES her "fundamental right" to abort is DOING A GOOD THING.
Que CNothing, but CNsumptin' now,
"Shi i i i i i i i i t tt!!!
Where in the world does a fool get "truth" like that???
And just think, YOUR Medicine use to tell us that homosexuality was a mental disorder and now YOUR Medicine tells us that it is entirely normal. So exalted is homosexuality by YOUR Medicine now, that it is an evolutionary advantage by its mere existence alone. Yet, nothing has changed about homosexuality as it almost always consisted of the individual that was privately true to his nature and publicly able to adopt heterosexual truth memes.
"But when an atheist says, "God does not exist," he says so standing on the back of the scientist who claims, "no empirical evidence for God exists."
that might pertain to CNu but i cant see how all atheist arrive at the same conclusion as CNu
i think some reject the concept of divine intelligence bec of the bible and judeo christian faith taking the position that IT is "empirical evidence" that GOD exist
thats why ive said in other threads that you dont need the bible or judeo christianity to SEE the empirical evidence of divine intelligence
christians are not allowed to SEE anything outside of their DOGMAS...and IMO thats a problem...thats mental slavery as far as im concerned
if they do...they WILL eventually leave that faith bec you cannot contain divine intelligence in a dogma or creed
either we gonna show divine (supreme, infallible, inerrant, etc) intelligence or we gonna argue if GOD (divine person) exist
brah DX...,
don't let that knuckle-dragging peasant and his nonsensical gibberish cloud your thoughts about yours truly.
CNu's Christianity is the ONLY Christianity.
Everything else is inexcusable ignorance and pathological self-delusion....,
CNu is church for DenmarkVesey...,
dx,
Again, the focus is on atheists and THEIR motivations for abiding an untenable foundation.
The MERE FACT that we can articulate and discuss God and His attributes is evidence of His existence. An atheist says this MEANS NOTHING as we have simply adopted the God meme. Then the believer asks, "Who created the God meme?" The evolutionary dogmist dare not say it arose at the population level for such memes are by defintion unique events initiated by the unique individual. And when it becomes clear that an atheist can't account this ability to conceive of the inconceivable, he is left with two choices. Accept empirical evidence for God as the origin of an articulated God or concede that empirical evidence was not needed and give revelation is just due.
What I tell ya... First, definitely don't affirm you're an atheist and next pretend to be one of those believers in an autonomous god. And of course, cloak it in "Christianity." You know, one of those obama "Christians" that are also advocates for abortion and homosexuality.
This CNothing god is autonomous and in turn allows its slave infinite leeway for deception, debauchery and destruction.
Thor
Actually, I'm pretty sure Cnulan is a practioner f Eastern Orthodox Christianity and rejects the existence of an almightly being. I know next to nothing about that particular branch of Christianity, but from some of the links he's posted it has something to do with deep meditation and some sort of personal evolution towards a higher plane.
So, it's not the same as the "liberal" Christians you are so found of denouncing. Then again, I wonder why you think it's so horrible that abortion is a fundamental right, but don't feel that way about fornication or adultery. Or lying.
But, I'll leave that alone since we've already done that dance.
I will give DV credit for making a point. Arguing about the existence of God, or which religion has the truth about God is pointless. I typically only get drawn into the debates we I sense ridiculous arrogance on one side or the other. I'm going to have to work on that.
My children. You who believe in me, your one true GOD. , but when When I put my WORD on old parchment of which you have not seen the original, but only copies and interpretation of copies you acknowledge my existence. But when you ignore me, your savior and creator, when I directly post on this tread. I beseech thee. Wake UP! Show obeisance! You one and true God is among you.
Do you require proof of my presence here in your midst? My child Farst? And what of you, the other believers?
I repeat.
My children. You who believe in me, your one true GOD. When I put my WORD on old parchment of which you have not seen the original, but only copies and interpretation of copies you acknowledge my existence. But you ignore me, your savior and creator, when I directly post on this tread. I beseech thee. Wake UP! Show obeisance! You one and true God is among you.
Do you require proof of my presence here in your midst? My child Farst? And what of you, the other believers?
And don't mind what seems to you like the previous mistakes in typing. I did so for reasons that are unfathomable to a human mind.
Lil' man,
Many blacks retain the cloak of "Christianity" while preaching His antithesis. They do this for the very obvious reason that it is the "slavemaster's religion." CNu is one such radical autonomist. It allows him to claim "Christianity" and say no God exists. Yet, he is woeful in explaining why he strives for supremacy and how Supremacy is not his guide? But of course, the historical context goes back to the "slavemaster's religion" and the potential to open the Pandora's Box of white supremacy. To accept Supremacy is to give open to the idea of LEGITIMATE "white supremacy." Many blacks understand this and so tread lightly. CNothing takes it to anther level much like barack.
God,
It would certainly MAKE SENSE for you to communicate through your creation the Truth of your Essence. And utilizing the Internet and DV's blog seems like a great way to articulate your Truth to many posers.
Farst, my child. Do you acknowledge me as you one true GOD?
God,
Heck, the creation in which you speak through may be a poser himself and yet Your message is still intelligible. Are we to think that Your creation is really in a battle with Your nonexistence?
I repeat:
Farst, my child. Do you acknowledge me as your one true GOD?
God,
When you speak Truth, I hear you and listen intently.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Cnulan is a practioner f Eastern Orthodox Christianity
close Big Man..,
and rejects the existence of an almightly being.
Wrong.
I simply and humbly appreciate the obvious absurdity of humans pretending to apprehend anything whatsoever concerning the uncreated energies - and so instead - confine my interests and assertions to those created things which a human can struggle to learn, know, and understand.
any other position is simply dishonest.
dishonesty of that magnitude is pathological.
Josh Farst, my Child. Surely you do not want to make your acceptance of me, your one and true GOD, conditional upon YOUR will?
[quote]ust a note, every organized religion has been advanced through the use of violence at some point in history.[/quote]
Big Man:
"Secular Progressivism" is a RELIGION JUST THE SAME!!!
There has NEVER been a more DESTRUCTIVE religion!!
There has NEVER been one that has DESTROYED MORE PEOPLE!!
There has NEVER been a religion that has ERODED MORE SOCIETAL ORDERS into dust!!!
All orders of THOUGHT that are operated by man has its flaws.
Secular Progressivism is most threatening BECAUSE at least these other forms seek to WRITE THEIR DOGMA DOWN and then enlist future believers as CONSERVATORS of their order.
The Secular Progressive makes shyt up as he goes along. Norms, morality and standards are subject to the RATIONALIZATIONS on the spot or per the whim of the POLITICAL POWERS at the time.
Regardless of it there is one man as the KING or a large legislative body rendering its judgments - the construct of Secular Progressivism is GODLESS and the BIGGEST ENSLAVER OF MAN.
It tries to disaggregate the human and sees us as carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and calcium. As such they are able to justify their antics because they are merely governing animated chemical compounds rather than "avatars" who represent SOULS.
Be on the look out for them or which ever designer label they call themselves upon hearing or reading someone else who brought enlightenment to their conscious.
God,
I have already accepted you as The Necessary Being. It is in this logical acceptance that I seek a free will. You understand that I may not test You and therefore when You speak Truth, I will hear You and listen to You intently. You also understand that some nonbelievers may attempt to speak in Your place and so they must eventually accept Your Truth and speak It as though they were You. If they cannot then their fraud is self-evident and if they can, how can they deny Your existence?
CNothing,
This isn't about apprehending God. It's about the motivations of those that worship "nothing" (equalness/anti-supremacy) or worship an autonomous god(s). An autonomous god would be Your unapprehendable god. Meaning, the energies you put forward should and can be unimpeded by the very fact that your god provides no constraints. Afterall, Your god is unapprehendable..
Good, my child Josh Farst. You must bide my will. This is what i want you to do: In your next comment, give praise in the most humble obeisance to the wisdom of my child Craig Nulan. You do not agree, but it is my will. Do not attempt to understand me for my reasoning is beyond your comprehension. Just obey my WORD. For I am your one true GOD.
An unapprehendable God is a logical absurdity. In reality, man knows the most fundamental Essence of God, His Supremacy.
You claim to know the mind of your one and true GOD? Obey child, for your failure to obey is your denial of my existence.
God,
My memes so mean
Turn Bruce Banner green...
Change man tuh machine
Take CNu
Discombobulatin' his dream
Yesterday he atheist
Today he order Autonomous Supreme...
Turn mike fisher
In tuh many different things???
Dood's playin' god
Like many different Cains...
Jerk dmg
"Washout yuvageen...
"Ya dirty mouth marine!!!"
Down witha mandated vaccine
That's treasonous
Tuh the highest degree!!!
THESE.FOOLS.B.ALL.OBSCENE...
Been scene
'Bout tuh b whip creamed!!!
God hatin' busters
Still trippin', tryin' tuh b Supreme...
This diabolical meme
End that psycho-logical regime...
Josh Farst, you shall linger for eternity with the hypocrite.
God,
Could you please explain?
"Again, the focus is on atheists and THEIR motivations for abiding an untenable foundation"
seems to me that YOUR focus is on CNu and YOUR belief of his motivations
YOUR issue with CNu not what i've stated
i'll RESTATE
i think some reject the concept of GOD bec of the bible and judeo christian faith taking the position that IT is "empirical evidence" that GOD exist
"I simply and humbly appreciate the obvious absurdity of humans pretending to apprehend anything whatsoever concerning the uncreated energies - and so instead - confine my interests and assertions to those created things which a human can struggle to learn, know, and understand"
"any other position is simply dishonest."
this i can appreciate and relate
if anyone rejects the religious beliefs of another they are labeled "atheists"
particularly if they reject judeo christianity
the rejection of the religious belief seems to be the motivation not their disbelief in GOD in principle that to me is another issue all together
but i can also understand a persons disbelief in GOD in principle bec of the position religionists take and particularly their history
dx,
To say God can't be conceived through the empirical evidence is the fallacy of science WHICH POSITS NO OTHER WAY OF CONCEIVING NONEXISTENT THINGS.
Scientifically-speaking, how was God conceived without benefit of empirical evidence?
It is impossible according to the scientist.
So when the scientist says, "There is no empirical evidence for the existence of God," all he is really saying is that his technology can't measure God's existence.
But when cats say God doesn't exist or that God is unapprehendable and these cats are the talented tenth, one is delving into an entirely different venue.
Don't CNu, Fisher and DMG speak for themselves?
please show me where i have said that GOD CANNOT be conceived by empirical evidence
and i'll stand corrected
dx,
Nah,I didn't say you said that. I'm saying that this is the stance of the atheist/scientist/believer of autonomous god(s). It's a false assertion and so the REAL debate is about the motivations of those that carry forward with fallacy as "truth."
TD,
fine....i agree....however i havent read any posts on this thread that suggest that there is a denial of the existance of "divine" intelligence, (LAW) principle(s)a governing of sort(s)of all things here and beyond, whether known or unknown to us, spirit-ual(mental) in nature
only a denial of institutionalized RELIGION
which makes perfect sense to me
i see you suggesting that CNu,DMG,MF have a clear cut nonbelief in GOD in principle period
i just dont see that, they seem to reject the same thing i reject when it comes to this matter
BS
and as far as motivations go, ive stated this numerous times
they are varied and many
peace
IMO believers and so called atheists alike are not CLEAR on what they believe or dont believe so that others can understand their positions
they usually havent studied purposefully or tested critically their positions and consequently make poor cases to what they claim or follow
thats one reason there is so much debate
IMO we should keep debating....not to is a cop out
its telling...
should have said "so called believers"
brah dx..,
debating an anthropomorphized "god", with a peasant incapable of conceiving anything beyond that, is perfectly analagous to debating the merits of an "action figure" with a young child.
refer the child to a cartoon and keep on moving down the road in pursuit of grown folks bidnis....,
"debating an anthropomorphized "god", with a peasant incapable of conceiving anything beyond that, is perfectly analagous to debating the merits of an "action figure" with a young child."
well said
accept no substitutes
Josh Farst, my child. You claim to know my mind, the mind of your true and only God. Why should I explain?
dx,
Are you going to fall for this charlatan? NO ONE IS DEBATING about "man-made" gods. Rather, we are trying to get to the motivations of those that WORSHIP "anthropomorphized" gods and their more radical brethren, worshippers of "nothing."
God's existence is undisputed on this blog outside Fisher and DMG who consciously seek to remain undefined on the question. It should be assumed that such an undefined state means they tend towards atheism.
SO THE DEBATE is concerning those that worship "nothing" and their practical cousins, worshippers of unapprehendable, unintelligible, anthropomorphized god(s). Meaning, what is the motivation of those who's very foundation is an adherence to absurdity?
Anthropomorphized god,
It is my understanding that The Necessary Being only does Necessary Things. Meaning, lying (by definition being an unnecessary thing) is not Necessary. These repeated assertions that I know the mind of God is a perverted distortion of my actual claim which is that when God speaks Truth, I seek to embrace It and reject its antithesis.
dx,
When dude talks about anthropomorphized god, he is not speaking of The One True God, The Necessary Being, The Prime Motivator, The First Cause. Instead, he is talking about the god(s) that are UNDEFINEABLE AND UNAPPREHENDABLE. These are AUTONOMOUS gods by definition. They are worshipped because they grant the worshipper RADICAL AUTONOMY. Radical autonomy is the ability to change unimpeded. Therefore, embracing Truth becomes an impediment to the radical autonomist. He therefore worships a god that PROVIDES NO TRUTHS. His god is unapprehendable and ambiguous. Therein lies the internal logic of the "Christian" radical autonomist.
Josh Farst, my child. You do not see that I speak the truth because you do not know my mind. However, your claim to see truth and thus be able to distinguish whether a "false God" or I, you true and only God si speaking to you, presupposes that you know the truth independently from what I say is true.
Consider also, my poor child, that I am the Crator and the Father of all. I am the Father of the Father of Lies. I am the Father of the Hypocrite. It is solely I who determines what is Truth and it is solely I who determines what is Lie.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, I am Truth and I am Lie.
I am your one and only true GOD.
All I ask of you, my child, is to bend before my WILL and give up your stubbornness in the face of my Glory.
Once again, for clarity:
Consider also, my poor child, that I am the Creator and the Father of all. I am the Father of the Father of Lies. I am the Father of the Hypocrite. It is solely I who determines what is Truth and it is solely I who determines what is Lie.
Argue not with, I, your GOD, about Truth or Lie. For neither Truth nor Lie exists outside my existence. For I am all-encompassing.
My child Craig Nulan.
My existence is beyond comprehension of all of my creation. When I speak to my fish, I speak as fish will understand - as a fish. When I speak to my ants, I speak to as ants will understand - as an ant. When I speak to my humans I speak as humans will understand - as a human. This is why I spoke as Jesus Christ, the human, to humanity.
The ultimate proof of the Love of, I, of the one and only, the true God, is to do what overcomes one's suborn pride and distaste. Thus I require my child Josh Farst to prostate himself before you, Craig Nulan, in complete obeisance.
Thus is my WILL.
@TD
"Are you going to fall for this charlatan? NO ONE IS DEBATING about "man-made" gods. Rather, we are trying to get to the motivations of those that WORSHIP "anthropomorphized" gods and their more radical brethren, worshippers of "nothing."
first of all TD if i feel that someone on this blog makes a valid point i will acknowledge it....dont sleep i aint on no one's side but mine....and who is WE???....i aint tryin to get to no one's motivation...i could care less what motivates folks here ...i aint here for that
"SO THE DEBATE is concerning those that worship "nothing" and their practical cousins, worshippers of unapprehendable, unintelligible, anthropomorphized god(s)."
TD you cant determine what the DEBATE is just make your point
"When dude talks about anthropomorphized god, he is not speaking of The One True God, The Necessary Being, The Prime Motivator, The First Cause."
i dont agree with your definition of "one true God, particularly as a "necessary "BEING"
there is where we will part company and i think that is exactly what CNu,DMG, and Fisher as issue with if i can speak for them which i do cautiously...you have no "empirical evidence" for that assertion...which you call "truth"
The evolution of religious behavior
The book The biology of Religious Behavior edited by Jay R Feierman provides an excellent framework on how to understand the biology and evolution of religion.
Viewed from a neurodiversity-perspective, there are certain troublesome aspects of religious behaviors:
Shamanism and delusions seems to be related to neurodiversity
Prosocial behaviors, submission and cooperative behaviors seems to be neurotypical
The Neanderthal Theory proposes that neurodiversity-traits are of neanderthal origin. So how could the current religious behaviors have evolved? Since major components seems to be recent, but of different origin, it is probably necesary to analyze African/Asian modern humans separately from Neanderthals, and try to figure out what was common before the split of humans into Eurasian Neanderthals and African/South Asian Homo, what evolved later in African/South Asian Homo, what was introgressed from Neanderthal, and how this admixture contributed to today’s religious behaviors.
"first of all TD if i feel that someone on this blog makes a valid point i will acknowledge it....dont sleep i aint on no one's side but mine"
Truth. I like that.
dx,
You can debate the parameters of the game, but the major players are always BELIEVERS IN SUPREMACY. Cats who claim atheism while striving to be Marines, doctors or record producers are either ignorant or liars. They strive for supremacy nonetheless.
Now, this means the real battle is between believers in One True God and believers in an unapprehendable anthropomorphic god(s).
Pick your side, dawg.
I'm down with Supremacy and the Truth is conveys.
dx,
You strive for supremacy. There is no supremacy without Supremacy. This MEANS SOMETHING. In the least, it means you acknowledge Supremacy as your Prime Motivator. Thus, your seeking supremacy is your attempt at apprehending God's Truth. For adherence to God's Truth IS SUPREMACY as Supremacy CAN NOT BE FALSE.
The seeking of supremacy and its detachment from the Truth of the Supreme is a manifestation of radical AUTONOMY.
Farst, why are you using the word "apprehending" and "unapprehending"? Are you trying to say "comprehending" and "uncomprehending" or are you trying to physically catch something?
[quote]Take CNu
Discombobulatin' his dream
Yesterday he atheist
Today he order Autonomous Supreme...
[/quote]
Thordaddy - All you can do is pray for this brother's soul and go on to find a less hardened heart.
In the latest edition of "PBS Frontline" they evaluated the development of the Christian religion from antiquity and the oppression that they have faced.
Put KCNulan's big azz in front of a cheering "Jerry Springer-like" crowd with hungry lions and tigers awaiting to eat him. Have the MC ask him "Do YOU believe in "Autonomous Supremacy/Anarcho-Capitalism/Secular Progressivism".
IF he answers in the affirmative HE IS EATEN ALIVE.
If he denies his present religion and agrees with the crowd that "Islam" is the only true religon.........
You will hear KCNulan say "As-salam alacum my brothers and sisters in the audience!!!".
Fisher...
"I simply and humbly appreciate the obvious absurdity of humans pretending to apprehend anything whatsoever concerning the uncreated energies..." (my emphasis) --CNothin'
I took "apprehend" to mean understand as opposed to seizing. This made sense because the radical "Christian" autonomist worships a god that is not understandable.
Constructive Feedback,
I agree. The dude is radical autonomy. Meme creation and meme adaption are obvious pursuits of this diabolical cat seeking to be a heavy resource alllocator.
Thordaddy - All you can do is pray for this brother's soul and go on to find a less hardened heart.
lol,
peasant,
there's a pearl of good advice nestled in Ronald's latest peculiar pantload of indecipherable, self-stimulating gibberish....,
here gimps, before you hurt yourselves comparing semantic shmeckels - apprehension of uncreated energies....,
Well, Craig. Being a "gimp" I obviously do not possess the intellectual capacity to comprehend the use of apprehend in this context.
Craig,
Why don't you elaborate why we can't make references to God's essence from His energies?
If God's essence is incomprehensible and His acts are detectable then what is actually being detected about God in His energies?
What is the consequence of a non-contingent God? It certainly doesn't follow that this non-contingency (radical autonomy) means incomprehensibility, does it?
Well, Farst. Have you ever seen a ghost?
certainly one could detect the manifestations of an intellligence higher than ourselves at work and many names have been given to represent these manifestations....but one IMO cannot KNOW its inner NATURE its unknowable....we can conceptualize....but what we know is its manifestations detected through our senses both physical and mental...i resist at times from using the title "GOD" simply bec today its so misused and abused
"God,
My memes so mean
Turn Bruce Banner green...
Change man tuh machine
Take CNu
Discombobulatin' his dream
Yesterday he atheist
Today he order Autonomous Supreme...
Turn mike fisher
In tuh many different things???
Dood's playin' god
Like many different Cains...
Jerk dmg
"Washout yuvageen...
"Ya dirty mouth marine!!!"
Down witha mandated vaccine
That's treasonous
Tuh the highest degree!!!
THESE.FOOLS.B.ALL.OBSCENE...
Been scene
'Bout tuh b whip creamed!!!
God hatin' busters
Still trippin', tryin' tuh b Supreme...
This diabolical meme
End that psycho-logical regime..."
LOL!! Ahhhhhh
My Favorite White Boy got more soul and heart than your average Plantation Negro.
If u Eastern Orthodox
U-must-explain-how-non-contingency
Means indecipherability???
How this ties to radical autonomy
And one perception of invincibility
Recognizing man's greatest weapon
Is his unpredictability...
Cats worship the unknowable
For a chance at immortality...
Cheaters in game of life
Deny Truth, embrace the diabolical fallacy!!!
Claiming God's Acts
Absolutely severed from His Legacy???
THIS.IS.HYPOCRISY
Dudes STILL STRIVE FOR SUPREMACY!!!
Out with unpredictability
In with predictability...
I predict these cats worship uh god
Let'm do anything
Be uh tiger
N beat uh whitey witha golf swing!!!
They god said it's cool
Cuz he just doing his thing
Ambiguous, autonomous
All around anomomous...
This god like the momz
Put u down n front uv TV screen!!!
But the real God led ya tuh DV,
Memerized by TD's meme...
Nah, this ain't uh dream...
Religion provides more than the concept of moral behavior. It provides culture as well (aside from the sciences atheists benefit from today). It provides human etiquette. The way one is to take in nourishment. The way a person relieve themselves, conduct human interaction, knowing when boundaries are transgressed ie treatment of others (physical, speech and opinions), sexual misbehavior, courtesies etc. There is a science to being a human being.
When religion express that point it's irrational and pointless rituals, but when the English have tea time that's high culture.
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