Saturday, November 14, 2009

42 comments:

Undercover Black Man said...

How else to build and maintain such world-supreme universities as M.I.T. without such "guild-like institutionalization and licensure"?

CNu said...

has n.o.t.h.i.n.g.w.h.a.t.s.o.e.v.e.r. to do with the subject or the discussion at hand.

Matter fact, it's precisely that type of hidebound status quo self-delusion that lurks at the core of the problem(s).

Not to try and redirect your efforts and attention David, but to illustrate as plainly as humanly possible the thought being expressed

I consider what you've asserted above as the functional equivalent of;

How else to build and maintain such world-supreme news outlets as the NYTimes, WaPo, etc..,

when we all know good-and-well that those institutional constructs are struggling mightily to survive and forge ahead on the business models that served them well in 1959 - but not so much in 2009.

Medicine and pedagogy - arguably foundational to the type of society you in particular wish to maintain - are failing both their practitioners and their constituents in precipitous and unprecedented ways.

What specifically do you propose to reinvent these foundational sectors of American interpersonal communion?

CNu said...

Arne Duncan, Al Sharpton, and Newt Gingrich on Meet the Press right now putting heat and light on the "guild-like" institutionalization and licensure issue in education.

Michelle Rhee in a quick clip went straight to the heart of "adults with contracts" never being measured and held accountable for outcomes.

Undercover Black Man said...

How else to build and maintain such world-supreme news outlets as the NYTimes, WaPo, etc..,

The business problems facing corporate journalism have fuck-all to do with the "guild-like" institutionalization of journalistic best practices... i.e., sourcing, accuracy, fairness, thoroughness.

The New York Times and Washington Post -- though with flaws concomitant with any human endeavor -- continue to emblemize such best practices. Practices which could only be developed and maintained through a "guild-like institutionalization." That is, a position of earned authority to enforce the definition of "good journalism" and "bad journalism" for the society at large.

Who-da-hell you figure should define what is "good medicine" and "bad medicine," Craig? Or "good scholarship" and "bad scholarship"? Except those who hold to a standard of professional excellence evolved over generations.

Any fuckbat with a modem and at least one finger is free to denounce M.I.T. as "bad pedagogy"... and its direct and indirect byproducts "bad science."

But the burden is on you, Craig, to explain persuasively why foundational sectors of Western society need to be "reinvented."

CNu said...

Who-da-hell you figure should define what is "good medicine" and "bad medicine," Craig? Or "good scholarship" and "bad scholarship"? Except those who hold to a standard of professional excellence evolved over generations.

anyone other than the incumbent administrative establishments who've overseen the standardization of underperformance, mediocrity, and institutional failure on their multi-decade watch.

Any fuckbat with a modem and at least one finger is free to denounce M.I.T. as "bad pedagogy"... and its direct and indirect byproducts "bad science."

lol.., at your spot-on self-characterization.

But the burden is on you, Craig, to explain persuasively why foundational sectors of Western society need to be "reinvented."

uh..., if 5% overall declining net energy, 23% adult and 28% teen unemployment don't ring obvious alarm bells not requiring any "explanation" David, I'm quite sure you're not up to carrying your side of any possible "discussion"

stick to pop fiction and pop cultural fandom dood, you have absolutely nothing of value to offer on this subject...,

CNu said...

Luke Mitchell on Obamacare

The idea that there is a competitive "private sector" in America is appealing, but generally false. No one hates competition more than the managers of corporations. Competition does not enhance shareholder value, and smart managers know they must forsake whatever personal beliefs they rnay hold about the redemptive power of creative destruction for the more immediate balm of governlnent intervention. This wislom is expressed most precisely in an underutilized phrase from economics: regulatory capture.

submariner said...

Very good discussion here and I look forward to reading more. Since Craig once called this forum "Fight Club" I just want to encourage you guys to not strike below the belt as you've done in the past. You both are making valid and substantive observations but can you both clearly state what the issue(s)to be addressed is?

Undercover Black Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Undercover Black Man said...

Sub: As you have appealed to our better nature, I shan't invite Mr. Nulan to chew a dick. Even though he is already up to his usual ad hominem shenanigans:

"David, I'm quite sure you're not up to carrying your side of any possible 'discussion'"

Muhfuggah actin' like I said something bad about his broccoli salad. Taking this shit way too personal.

Anyhoo... my issue is with Craig's baseline premises. To wit: Western society is doomed to imminent ruin. Therefore all current standards, foundational institutions and sources of authority need to be "reinvented."

When challenged on such casual doomsaying, he feebly suggests that the validity of his assumptions is obvious for all to see.

Can't imagine why he didn't take the opportunity to break it down in a more persuasive fashion.

CNu said...

lol..,

dumbass,

DV quotes me.

I clarify my meaning which you had taken incorrectly,

then I'm obliged to argue with you about wtf I meant?!?!?!?!

you need to put down the pipe and stick to the shallow end of the intellectual pool where your flippers and floaties work best.

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Fuck what you clarified in a different thread, bruh. In this here thread, you asked: "What specifically do you propose to reinvent these foundational sectors of American interpersonal communion?"

Again, I question the casual doomsaying behind your kwestin.

Don't know why you didn't take the opportunity to break it down is a sharp, cogent, compelling manner.

Unless time is tight because you got muffins in the oven.

CNu said...

Don't know why you didn't take the opportunity to break it down is a sharp, cogent, compelling manner.

ummm, cause you have an uninterrupted track record of demonstrating yourself unworthy of the effort.

seriously.

DMG, Sub, and a number of others here - could hold forth in an informed manner about various aspects of healthcare.

you? not so much.

Similarly, all the parents of children in schools, teachers, administrators, volunteer instructors - with in-depth, direct personal exposure to various aspects of the American education system - or even just shallow topical familiarity with school performance statistics - could equally well contribute to a constructive dialogue.

you again? not so much.

seriously, the last time you tapped a keyboard hereabouts wrt the topic of education {or "talent recognition" as you seem to conceive of it}, I thought you showed a set of limitations and character defects of such monstrous proportions that I forswore ever wasting a single extra breath or keystroke on addressing you about it.

Frankly, given the backward nature of the views you previously expressed at Denmark Vesey on the subject of education, it's really not a subject you should ever feel comfortable addressing in public again.

Undercover Black Man said...

Frankly, given the backward nature of the views you previously expressed at Denmark Vesey on the subject of education, it's really not a subject you should ever feel comfortable addressing in public again.

Way to argue, dude.

How-da-FUK did they let your silly ass into M.I.T.?

Undercover Black Man said...

Yo, Sub... I tried.

CNu said...

to frost the unpalatable turd of your politics and pass that shit off as if it were a cake....,

Undercover Black Man said...

But Craig, if you can't argue with people you disagree with... who you gonna argue with?

As I stated upthread, I'm not interested in your critique of the health-care system per se... or the educational system per se... or the journalism business per se...

... but with the baseline premise beneath all your critiques: the destructive impulse to "reinvent" all established authority and social institutions.

CNu said...

and I give a phuk about your interests because your children will carry forward your political zeitgeist?

or,

because we both had parents who came up eating braunschweiger during the Great Depression?

lol...,

c'mon kneegrow,

life,

particularly one on which others depend,

is much too short to squander bickering in political blind alleys with genetic blind alleys whose opinions are merely virtual rather than applied.

sheeeiiiiiittt......,

It's hard enough keeping constructive and collaborative interchange going with qualified correspondents,

holla at yo boy when it actually means something more substantial than moon-feeding meat-beating....,

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Cool. Meantime, I'll just keep on making culture. (Which you'll keep on consuming.)

CNu said...

lol..,

I'd sooner eat a pot of chitlins out your actual kitchen than be exposed to memes out the political skunk-works from which you emanate son.

here ends another futile and circular round of rhetorical dodge ball with a genuine, self-appointed slave-catcher -

the one-and-only

- undercover "black" man.

accept no disinformative substitutes.....,

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Talk that shit next spring, son. "Treme" gon' be hot and poppin'!

Michael Fisher said...

^Speaking of Treme, why don't you get Toy Connor involved?

CNu said...

dayyum nucca...,

boss make you put up that verbose-azz wiki for low-cost web-marketing hype, and don't even let you give yourself a plug as head fluffer, fluffernutter, or whatever the phug you get to plug yo'sef for in your role as 18th assistant jr. token kneegrow grip....,

Undercover Black Man said...

^ You see right through my bullshit, Craig. Being a writer/producer on an HBO series -- and living all-expenses-paid in New Orleans for six months -- is totally NOT COOL.

By the way, how's your job, bruh? Still got one, right?

Undercover Black Man said...

Fish: You bringing it up won't help to make it happen.

It pisses me the fuck off, frankly.

Undercover Black Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CNu said...

^ You see right through my bullshit, Craig. Being a writer/producer on an HBO series -- and living all-expenses-paid in New Orleans for six months -- is totally NOT COOL.

if you say so boss!

lol...,

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Oops, sorry. I forgot. Y'all had to cancel HBO when the real-estate market dried up.

Oh well...

Thordaddy said...

Looka these two
Serial obfuscators!!!
Playin' blob wars
But loyal tuh tha same agitator...
Both n duh radical autonomy
One prepin' fo' duh consequence
Tha otha still n discovery...
They both have tha luxury
Servin' they purpose
While appearin' like adversaries...
This just uh 21st century hustle
Uh skill set that is necessary...
If ya live n uh soon 2b cemetary
It's scary!!!
No... It's fantasy...
Tha masses stuck n tha middle
Y CNu n UBM playout they radical autonomy...

Nipsey Muhammad said...

Thordaddy be infectin’ this comment section
Like a hardcore case of the jock itch.
Sometimes I wish I was an astronaut
So I could tell him: “Suck my space dick, bitch!”

dx said...

TD is school........

Michael Fisher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Undercover Black Man said...

Michael, why do you imagine I would welcome someone who knows nothing about my job... suggesting how I should do my job... so he can act like he's got some pull?

Do you want me telling you who you should fucking hire?

Besides, you could give a highly qualified black actor and writer a break.

Motherfucker, we cast her in "The Corner." I cast her in "Kingpin." Don't talk to me about breaks.

Oh, by the way... Sophia Ramos responded on my blog to what you wrote about her. She says you're full of shit.

Here's a taste:

"Mr.Fisher you DID NOT get me a deal with A&M! What you did was offer me an extremely shoddy deal through your production company in which you wanted complete control and close to 50% of all earnings."

Just FYI.

In the future, you handle your business and let me handle mine.

CNu said...

TD is school........

lol.

Michael Fisher said...

David. All I did is make a suggestion. The rest is your interpretation of it. I don't see how you getting Toy involved would show my "having pull". Though it certainly would demonstrate you having pull.

As far as Sophia is concerned, this is the first I've seen her comment. Thanks. I left the following answer on your comment section.

"Well, with all due respect Sophia, you had a long dinner meeting with me, my partner, and Alonzo Brown who at the time ran Urban A&R at A&M Records. You would've had that deal. You would have been signed, and the deal would've been a good one, too. I think you just got bad legal advice. I don't remember the exact terms of the deal, however, any contract that is offered begins at opposite ends of a spectrum and a good attorney understands that and understands how to get to a point where each party is satisfied. The reason you got the offer in the first place was because we all were fans of yours, and as far as I can see you never lost that talent."

Undercover Black Man said...

David. All I did is make a suggestion.

Nooo, Michael. You have been pressing the issue repeatedly. As if I give a hot fuck about your opinion on any matter... especially one concerning my producerial functions.

Even when I flat-out tell you right here that your bringing it up "won't help to make it happen," and that you are pissing me off... what do you do, with your expertise in interpersonal relations??

You send a private email urging me to hire your girl: "Personally, I'd thoroughly appreciate it."

I'm sure you would, Fish. The question is why?

All this is very suspicious. The actress hasn't asked you to campaign on her behalf; I sure as shit haven't coveted your advice. So why do you care so much, Mike?? Why won't you leave it alone and mind your business??

I have good instincts about human beings. And it seems to me the real reason you want me to hire her... is so you can tell her, "I got Mills to hook you up, so now you owe me something."

Definitely starting to smell like you're out for yourself with this, Mike... not the actress and certainly not me.

Now will you leave it alone and let nature take its course?

Kimberly said...

I don't know about this one undercover black man. It seems as if michael is just trying to help a young lady out. Were I in her shoes I would certainly appreciate him putting in an encouraging word with you. It's hard enough for talented actors to find good projects. Why is it not ok for him to lobby a black producer on behalf of a black actor?

I don't understand why you are so put off.

Undercover Black Man said...

^ Kimberly, I'm a fan of this actress. I've hired her before. I don't need Mike Fisher to tell me anything about what I should be doing as a producer.

I'm put off because Mike is asking me to do him a favor. "Personally, I'd thoroughly appreciate it."

He has talked so much shit about me, I am not inclined to do him any favors. I could never imagine asking him for one.

Michael Fisher said...

Like I said, David. It was a suggestion. And if I suggested it before, so what? David, I've known Toy since see was a hard-working teenager in New York City. She's a sweet person and a highly talented actor who is vastly unappreciated. I certainly don't have to profile myself to her and if I tried to, she's get a laugh attack. If you're a fan of Toy's then it would make sense to act on that regardless of what you think my motivations may be.

Michael Fisher said...

Mills...

"Even when I flat-out tell you right here that your bringing it up "won't help to make it happen," and that you are pissing me off... what do you do, with your expertise in interpersonal relations??

You send a private email urging me to hire your girl: "'Personally, I'd thoroughly appreciate it.'"


First off, David. Toy is not "my girl", but just a mutual friend. Second, I don't quite understand why your antipathy towards me would influence a professional assessment about an actor. As I told you in the private (note: PRIVATE) e-mail I sent you:

"As thoroughly despicable as I found and still find some of your basic political views about black folks, and as intense and rough our exchanges might have been, including those around your functions on this series, I've always recognized and shown the greatest respect for your talent and abilities as a writer."

And that certainly is the truth.

Well, you're gonna do what you're gonna do.

submariner said...

^^Me too. Especially since I'm certain that he hears such requests all the time from intimates, extended family, and acquaintances in real life. A tangential figure encountered online doesn't seem worth it. Maybe Fisher caught him at a bad time.

Nonetheless, I'm happy and excited for Mills and look forward to seeing Treme. It's the first that I've heard of it and hope that its artistic merit and success rivals that of The Wire.

submariner said...

My comment was directed as a reinforcement to Kimberly's

Undercover Black Man said...

Nonetheless, I'm happy and excited for Mills and look forward to seeing Treme.

I appreciate that, Sub.