LEBANON, Pa. - They booed and taunted Sen. Arlen Specter (D., Pa.), calling him a tyrant, as anger at the Democrats' proposed overhaul of the health-care system boiled over in a pair of town-hall meetings Tuesday."This country is turning into Russia," one man said in a common refrain, standing toe to toe with Specter here in a hall at the Harrisburg Area Community College campus. Chants broke out as the senator tried to answer questions: "You work for us!" and "Read the bill."
50 comments:
It isn't just Specter's events, it's practically all of them.
Also, there's nothing "plantation" about getting in the face of your elected representatives.
Wouldn't it be more "plantation" if they just sat back and uncritically accepted the bill?
Getting in the face of an 'elected official' with a belly full of diabetes and cancer expecting a solution to your health needs is Plantation.
The Government Can Do Nothing To Improve Your Health.
All the rest is talk.
It's politics and hegemony.
90% of "Care" in this country is drugs. 10% Surgery.
Fussing about the bill. Arguing about the bill. Threatening to do shit about the bill. Then reluctantly accepting some token modification of the bill (which was the original Hegelian goal to begin with) ...
And then stopping by Wendy's and Walmart on the way home is Plantation.
I'm a big boy. Let me keep my money and allow me to provide my own health "care".
I'm already aware of the "Hegelian head fake" aspect of these so called debates and this was realized quite clearly by someone over at the C4L:
"And perhaps the most important general comment from those queued up came from a gentleman (I cannot recall his appearance) who expressed confusion at the many bills, but asked if we could somehow have a town meeting when a single bill had been settled on, but before it had passed.
Tellingly, Hank Johnson sputtered and bumbled, but finally responded that no, it was not likely we could actually debate the bill that was going to be passed. But, he said, we could certainly have a town hall meeting after the bill had passed!
This drew laughs and hackles from the entire crowd. Johnson responded bizarrely by launching into diversionary criticism of the Blue Dog Democrats and Republicans, capping off with an exhortation that we "have gotta do something" (nationally, of course).
This was perhaps the most telling interaction about how the whole system works: we are to be swamped by a confusion of conflicting principles and directives and details, and end up arguing with each other about things that perhaps are in only one version of a bill or another (or none at all), which may or may not appear in a final bill. Then the bill will be passed quickly by congress, after its usual horse trading, and we'll be unravelling the monstrosity for months if not years to come. This process belies utter contempt for the citizenry and perhaps reveals that our government has reached a stage where it simply cannot function if proposed legislation is clearly and methodically open to scrutiny."
The bold portion is a classic example of what happens when someone is able to see through all the confusion, fake oppositionality, and token debate, and finally gets a clear picture of how all of this pre-planned "debate" ultimately leads to an already predetermined outcome. I believe this is what you'd call, "a Hegelian head fake".
"Getting in the face of an 'elected official' with a belly full of diabetes and cancer expecting a solution to your health needs is Plantation."
That doesn't make sense considering that the people getting in their faces are totally against a government solution. They aren't "expecting a solution". They want the bill killed, plain and simple. What their belly looks like is completely irrelevant.
They want the bill killed, plain and simple.-- GC
And when will they kill to prove their point?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/vp=32378192�
Good stuff. Gray. That was an amusing anecdote.
"That doesn't make sense considering that the people getting in their faces are totally against a government solution. They aren't "expecting a solution". They want the bill killed, plain and simple. What their belly looks like is completely irrelevant."
Au Contrare Mon Frere.
The Plantation Cracka "Obama Opposition Forces" play an important role in this Hegelian menagerie.
Privately Insured "Plantation Pharma" Health Care or Publicly Insured "Plantation Pharma" Health Care ... the Plantation gets you either way: Addicted to the same drugs.
Therefor the Plantation Crackas belly fully of diabetes and cancer is crucially important.
What he eats, is what threatens his life. Not some motherfucking abstraction called "insurance".
Participating in the thesis anti-thesis charade the Plantation Cracka inadvertently reinforces the Plantation NWO Meme of Centralized State Control over the distribution of drugs to the population.
Since the Progressive Era with its labor laws and graduated income tax to the New Deal which gave them college educations and houses, white people have had no problem with big government as long as blacks and immigrants were excluded. Fuck these crackers.
But there in Sub, lies the dangers of Group Identity Politics.
They have us competing for things that end up doing us harm.
Is a Government Operated Medical System really a COME UP for black people?
Is that where we are?
Obese diabetic black people looking to the government to save them?
After 200 years?
Booker T. must be spinning in his grave.
Once the gov runs healthcare, people will become entirely dependent upon Big Gov by association. You can't vote against your health.
That's why Obama wants to pass this so bad. It's the last nail in the coffin to individual rights in this country. And a carte blanche to Big Fed power.
Not to mention he can also stomp out alternative medicine this way. Kiss all your choices goodbye. You will be forced to take drugs or surgery by pre-selected doctors - or you're on your own out-of-pocket.
Despite the fact that you will pay taxes for these pre-selected choices, whether you actually use them or not.
Is a Government Operated Medical System really a COME UP for black people?
Yes. The only reason the US doesn't have national healthcare is because of race. And race is the only reason the US doesn't have a Labor Party.
The libertarian/conservative ethos only gained national currency as a result of the successes of the Civil Rights/Black Power Movements in democratizing the public space.
Makheru say: "And when will they kill to prove their point?"
A guy showed up to an event while carrying openly (legally) and no one got hurt. When will they kill to make their point? No one can predict when some random idiot will kill to make a point with regard to a particular issue. The guy who shot up the gym in Los Angeles killed folks to make a point. The guy who shot up the Holocaust museum had a point to make as well. The DHS and the MIAC reports have already compiled and chronicled the factors and behaviors that are associated with potential right-wing extremism in America and have fingered them as potential domestic terrorists. That's about all anyone can do.
Submariner said: "Since the Progressive Era with its labor laws and graduated income tax to the New Deal which gave them college educations and houses, white people have had no problem with big government as long as blacks and immigrants were excluded. Fuck these crackers."
I'm sure plenty of white people were totally against the New Deal and the income tax at the time and still are to this day. The so-called mob protesters who are against health care reform cannot all be racists, bussed in by the insurance companies, or birthers. Some of them are just regular people with legit concerns. The ability to designate any white person with something critical to say as a racist is just another audible in the Establishment playbook in which "race" is used a a blunt wedge to quell dissent.
DV said: "Participating in the thesis anti-thesis charade the Plantation Cracka inadvertently reinforces the Plantation NWO Meme of Centralized State Control over the distribution of drugs to the population."
DV, when these constituents fix their mouth to ask their elected representative where the language is in the Constitution that gives them the authority to do this, in what way are they inadvertently reinforcing a "NWO meme"? Maybe you should make a distinction between the dittoheaded frothy-mouth Bubba screaming about socialism and birth certificates and principled folks who can actually think and ask legitimate questions.
Maybe you should make a distinction between the dittoheaded frothy-mouth Bubba screaming about socialism and birth certificates and principled folks who can actually think and ask legitimate questions.
The latter should(MUST)loudly and vigorously distance themselves from and repudiate the former.
Failure to do so is precisely why the GOP has been dragged into the wigger abyss for all eternity.
Which abyss increasingly loudly and violently threatens to drag all the rest of us with it....,
Right Wing.
Left Wing.
Extremists.
Progressive
Conservative
C4Ls.
White People.
Black People.
_______________
Plantation Occupants
You cats are falling for the Group Identity Okey Doke.
'This is an old cliche at work here: "Conservative Bibtard White People" are against National Health Care. Therefor National Health Care must be good for Recently Educated Newly Secular Black People.'
Nah.
No.
Stop.
WHAT ... EXACTLY is this "Care" that people "Want" so badly and the the Government / Corporations / Plantation is working so hard to give us?
Of what exactly does this care consist?
Brother Gray, you speak of our "elected officials" as if they were really ... elected. As if they really ... represent the people. As if there truly exists even the most remote semblance of a democratic process.
You can't be serious. Do you really think cats like Arlen Specter represent the interests of his constituency?
Or is he a representative of the ... New Order?
Anybody walking around with a gut full of Genetically Modified Food ... is by DEFINITION ... a ward of the Plantation.
Talk of National Health Insurance is just negotiations for the drugs to keep you alive long enough to make some money off your ass.
Spot on Gray, thanks.
DV, you're all over the health thing. One of the most important health choices is in the mind set. We now know stress and anger to cause all kinds of undesirables. It's like stabbing yourself in the back, to your own face. Seems like you'd want to say something about this.
The ability to designate any white person with something critical to say as a racist is just another audible in the Establishment playbook in which "race" is used a a blunt wedge to quell dissent.
Dude, the opposition shows up with explicitly racial microaggressions; I provided a verifiable historical scenario (conservatism's ascendancy being inextricably linked to black liberation struggles) but I get called out by you for playing the race card?
By the way, nothing is more explicitly group identity politics than Hip Hop.
Hypothetical question for all the interlocutors in this thread: If Hillary had been the Dem nominee and was elected President instead of Obama, would we still be seeing the type of heated outbursts over health care reform going on at these townhall meetings, or would these people be much more agreeable with regard to the whole deal if it were a white lady in office?
My guess is that these folks wouldn't accept it under Hillary, McCain, or Bill Clinton. Of course, Submariner likes to say that the only reason they wouldn't accept it (and the reason it hasn't been adopted already) is because a government plan would cover "dem blacks" and "dem illegals", as if that's the singular reason white folks have rejected this shit time and time again.
DV say: "Brother Gray, you speak of our "elected officials" as if they were really ... elected. As if they really ... represent the people. As if there truly exists even the most remote semblance of a democratic process.
You can't be serious. Do you really think cats like Arlen Specter represent the interests of his constituency?"
Sure DV, if I wanted to be iconoclastic all the time, like you generally are, I would say that, "He's nothing more than a member of our modern-day House of Lords", and would not refer to him as an "elected representative". Please don't misinterpret the fact that I didn't slap a clever and snarky iconoclastic label on his position in the Senate as a lack of seriousness on my part.
The question of whether or not he is effectively representing the interests of his constituents is an issue for his constituents to decide and potentially act upon.
I'm well aware that the folks in the Beltway bubble are severely out of touch with the general public. That's an easy observation to make. Okay, you've made that observation, now what? What are the next steps people should take to have a more direct say in what goes on on the Hill? Any suggestions? The best suggestion I heard yesterday was to hold a referendum.
DV said: "Or is he a representative of the ... New Order?"
Define what you mean when you say "New Order". I have my own definition but I've never heard yours.
Sub said: "Dude, the opposition shows up with explicitly racial microaggressions; I provided a verifiable historical scenario (conservatism's ascendancy being inextricably linked to black liberation struggles) but I get called out by you for playing the race card?"
No Sub. I'm saying that there are at least two camps in which we can divide the so-called opposition: the dittoheaded frothy-mouth Bubba screaming about socialism and birth certificates, and principled folks who can actually think and ask legitimate questions. Lumping the latter in with the former distorts the fact that not all of the vocal white folks at these events are there to express some sort of racial animus.
I'm saying that when our major news outlets go out of their way to make note of the fact that these events have a "mostly white audience" it's a deliberate tactic which is employed by the Establishment and designed to gently put forth the notion that the only opponents to health care reform are white racists—when that is clearly not the case.
Why the so-called principled opponents to health insurance reform permit themselves to be so baldly mislabeled?
Plantation Occupants
You cats are falling for the Group Identity Okey Doke.
'This is an old cliche at work here: "Conservative Bibtard White People" are against National Health Care. Therefor National Health Care must be good for Recently Educated Newly Secular Black People.'
this the EXACT SAME CAT who told this bald-faced Jesse Lee Peterson lie this morning?
If you are black, you will be lucky to be born at all. Abortion factories destroy most of us before we are ever born.
If you BWAK!!!
lol!!!
DV, you deserve to be shot with hot pee.....,
CNu. Aside from your urine fixation, I don't see an inherent conflict.
Conservative White Bibtards did not build the abortion apparatus and aim it at black people.
Liberal Jews like Margaret Sanger did.
And now they are suckering the same Negros into placing their individual health in their collective hands.
... Again. Using "Conservative Bibtards" (Plantation Crackas) to attract the ire of Plantation Negros.
CNu said: "Why the so-called principled opponents to health insurance reform permit themselves to be so baldly mislabeled?"
Because most of the time they don't realize that they have a serious PR issue with regard to how they are perceived. Also because I highly doubt they can afford to avail themselves of the expert services which are provided by the sundry public relations and image management firms which have become ubiquitous in the United States. If these angry protesters gave a damn about how they were perceived, their leadership would have contracted with an image consulting firm who would have instructed them in the style of clothes to wear, the appropriate focus-group-tested words to say, and how to comport themselves in front of the cameras—i.e., everything a Presidential candidate does in order to manage and shape public perception.
Your inquiry begs the question of who generally controls and exerts the most influence over public perception though.
Why did Ron Paul, Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich allow themselves to be labeled as kooks, loons, and wack jobs during the last primary season? It wasn't that they "allowed" this to happen. There's a difference between those who have rightly earned the public's negative perception of them, and those who have been subject to a negative narrative campaign because their interests and opinions don't coincide with the Eastern Establishment.
oh..., the Koch bros and their toy Cato Institute can't afford to upgrade the PR baseline of their most vocal pundits and pols?
Conservative White Bibtards did not build the abortion apparatus and aim it at black people.
If that was indeed their objective, then they're really lousy shots given that three times as many other folk avail themselves of these consensual services annually.
And now they are suckering the same Negros into placing their individual health in their collective hands.
uh.., by offering a lower cost public insurance option?
Please explain exactly how the logic of that statement is conjoined in the mind of Denmark Vesey?
Cause out here in normal inductive/deductive logic world, that don't make a phukkin lick of sense...,
... Again. Using "Conservative Bibtards" (Plantation Crackas) to attract the ire of Plantation Negros.
politics and this specific issue aside, bibtards and wiggers need to be addressed on general principle given their de-evolutionary effect on the species gene pool.
"principled opponents to health insurance reform " CNu
Wow. Deconstruct that meme.
It's as convoluted as "Bibtard opponents of abortion".
The images of "National Health Care" "Opponents" are as carefully crafted as the images of National Health Care supporters.
Crafted by the same people.
There is a reason "angry" people are on the news and informed people challenging the flawed assumptions of allopathic medicine are not on the News.
Imagine an auditorium full of people demanding the prevention of disease instead of the treatment of it.
Imagine a room full of scientists presenting evidence of the dangers of GMO or mass vaccinations.
That would be "opposition".
Fat diseased old angry white men aint really opposition.
CNu said: "oh..., the Koch bros and their toy Cato Institute can't afford to upgrade the PR baseline of their most vocal pundits and pols?"
I'm not sure that the recent antics of the folks at these townhall meetings reflects negatively on the generally-respected Cato. Establishment media doesn't need to knock Cato. Cato doesn't need a PR firm because they have a good track record of being supportive of the Establishment agenda on certain issues. Cato represents the type of Eastern Establishment libertarianism that is as out of touch with the libertarian sentiments of the general public as members of the House and Senate are with the opinions of their constituents.
and all out of the humble precincts of wichita kansas..., fancy that!!!
DV
The tactics you use when discussing abortion are going to continue to hamstring you when you try to pull out the whole "Why is race important?" card in other debates.
Simply put, race is only important when Denmark Vesey decides it's important.
Everything else is Plantation thinking.
I think that about sums it up.
DV say: "The images of "National Health Care" "Opponents" are as carefully crafted as the images of National Health Care supporters.
Crafted by the same people.
There is a reason "angry" people are on the news and informed people challenging the flawed assumptions of allopathic medicine are not on the News."
Do you really think that a random debate about a health care reform proposal is somehow going to spontaneously metasize into a vigorous iconoclastic debate about the very foundations of the medical establishment DV?
You can only script so much of what the so-called opposition will say and do. I guaran-dam-tee you that these people asking pointed questions about the Constitution were not in the script. The reason you can tell it's not scripted is because the Reps can only answer with some mumbling about, "Uh, uh, uh, the um, the general welfare clause and such..."
You say that because they aren't challenging every sacred pillar of the medical establishment that their shouting is useless, but at least they're saying something.
The point you're making about false oppositionality isn't lost on anyone, at least not me. I know the phenomenon you're talking about when I see it. Prime example: CNN had two brothers on to debate the health care issue. One bother picks his "side", while his brother takes the other "side". Hegelian head fake and all that, we get it.
Again Big Man.
You misunderstand. Black people have a difficult time thinking clearly once race is injected into an issue.
You've been taught white conservatives are your enemy for so long you have a difficult time seeing it any other way.
Do you think "white conservatives" engineered the abortion apparatus in this country?
Of course not.
Then who did?
The same liberals engineering a system that furthers the dependence of black people upon the government.
Hamstring!!!!
Big Man, that was a bacon fed (from the rooter-to-the-tooter) size 13 triple EEE wingtip-oxford brogan planted firmly and squarely in a little lying, narrow, pink-salt sprinkled vegetarian behind....,
which is precisely why DV didn't answer a single one of the questions put to him and instead went to ducking and dodging and running away from the core issue as quick as he could.
Do you think "white conservatives" engineered the abortion apparatus in this country?
nobody but morons - and the deceivers who mislead them on false sentimental grounds via propaganda - believe the "abortion apparatus" to be problematic.
there are no forced abortions taking place in the U.S. - but if the bibtard fringe had its way - there would be millions upon millions of forced unwanted pregnancies taken to term - and - millions upon millions of dangerous, non-medical, and illegal back alley abortions.
how many orphans have you and Mrs. Vesey adopted or at least foster parented?
Hmmm?
OK. Gray. Now you talkin'.
You are right. The "opposition" is not scripted.
It does not have to be.
The scripting. The engineering of the dialectic. The 'Hegelian Head Fake' is accomplished in production. In the edit room. Not on stage.
Just as we were bombarded with Iran's sexy little "Green Revolution" last month, and sympathetic images of Iranian protesters, we are now being bombarded with images of UNSYMPATHETIC National Health Care opponents.
People who do not look like us, are presented as the poster children opposing National Health Care.
As an added measure they threw in some anti-Obama memes to completely turn off the Submariner type cats who think anything against Obama is against them.
Denmark Vesey said: "Again Big Man. You misunderstand. Black people have a difficult time thinking clearly once race is injected into an issue."
Now that you've said this DV, do you think the deliberate mentioning of the racial makeup of the townhall meetings in the national media has anything to do with what you just described in terms of generating public support for or against this health care proposal?
I guaran-dam-tee you that these people asking pointed questions about the Constitution were not in the script.
Gray,
dood,
The issue is nowhere near as deep as some of y'all are making it out to be.
Healthcare issue on the back of a napkin....,
wherein a visually creative information presentation actually educates instead of manipulatively propagandizing...,
if digging at the foundations of the medical industrial complex is digging too deep,
then WTF utility does digging around the constitution have?
Seriously?
That's why your people are being ignored...,
A guy showed up to an event while carrying openly (legally) and no one got hurt.—GC
William Kostric didn’t just show up at “an event” with an automatic handgun strapped to his leg. He showed up at a town hall meeting on a highly charged subject being held by the POTUS.
Kostric was “legally” armed and carrying a sign that read “IT’S TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY” which is taken from a Thomas Jefferson quote, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
And Kostric was not the only citizen attending that event who was armed.
Police: Man arrested before Obama event had loaded gun
Richard Terry Young, 62, of 821 Ocean Blvd. in Hampton, was charged with the misdemeanor crimes of criminal trespass and carrying a loaded pistol without a license.
The guy who shot up the gym in Los Angeles killed folks to make a point.—GC
I think the shooting occurred in a LA Fitness Center in Pittsburgh, but more importantly is George Sodini’s interpretation of the teachings of the extremist minister Pastor Rick Knapp: “You can commit mass murder then still go to heaven.”
Sounds a lot like Ayman Zawahiri. I wonder how many virgins did Sodini expect to have at his disposal in paradise?
No one can predict when some random idiot will kill to make a point with regard to a particular issue.—GC
People like Byron De La Beckwith, Timothy McVeigh, and Eric Rudolph were not “random idiots.” They were connected with a violent ethos that as historical roots which run deep into American history. The consumers of this virulent mentality see both initiatory and retaliatory violence as being therapeutic.
It’s just a matter of time before they strike.
When they do strike, it we be interesting to see if Obama’s minions have more guts than the forever capitulating Obama has shown in the face of pressure.
This issue will not be settled over Bud Light in the Rose Garden.
CNu said: "Gray,
dood,
The issue is nowhere near as deep as some of y'all are making it out to be."
And: "That's why your people are being ignored...,"
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
As to the first statement, I wasn't aware that we had started debating the actual issue, especially since I haven't said word boo about my position on it. I had a pretty simple suggestion about having a referendum that I already threw out there.
As for the second statement, who is "your people"? And why have you designated them "my" people?
Makheru, we already have the DHS report and the MIAC report. What more do you want done to prevent something tragic from happening?
As for the second statement, who is "your people"? And why have you designated them "my" people?
mayne, you know you still wearing your "Ron Paul for president" photo embossed and custom embroidered tighty whiteys...,
who you trying to kid?
I ain't mad at you...,
you prolly paid good money for them joints. (er, ah, I mean made a sizeable campaign contribution)
DV
I wasn't talking about conservatives, race, health care, abortion, or anything like that.
I was talking about your willingness to inject race into discussions when it suits your purposes.
Look at two of your recent posts.
You throw out numbers that suggest that abortions are bad for black folks health, and then tell them that the reason why they are getting so many abortions is because white Jews want them to get them.
But, you also say that the reason why black folks have poor health has nothing to do with white folks denying them access to adequate health care, it only has to do with their unwillingness to eat right and exercise.
That right there is a problem. On hand, your blaming the evil whiteys, in this case Jews.
On the other hand you're telling black folks that the evil whiteys aren't important, it's all about what they do.
Pick a team homie.
Dv said:
"Again Big Man.
You misunderstand. Black people have a difficult time thinking clearly once race is injected into an issue."
This struck me. Wanna know why? This is coming from the man who regularly debates who is the "blackest person doing something." This is coming from the man who advocates Global System of Black Supremacy.
Finally, this is coming from the man who whenever he argues against abortions on this site approaches it from the angle of "look at all the black babies dying. It's genocide!"
So, when discussing abortion, you love to inject race into the discussion.
Given the statement I excerpted above, is it fair to say that you intend to prevent black people from thinking clearly about the issue of abortion?
CNu said: "mayne, you know you still wearing your "Ron Paul for president" photo embossed and custom embroidered tighty whiteys...,
who you trying to kid?"
And: "I ain't mad at you...,
you prolly paid good money for them joints. (er, ah, I mean made a sizeable campaign contribution)"
LOL! Guilty as charged brah. I put my money where my mouth was and participated in a couple of those money bomb runs. And I'd do it all over again. I'll throw my chips in with the C4L over the corrupt DNC or RNC any day of the week.
I see you still stuck in your default mode where you think I'm all about getting "my people" listened to. Dude, if it was really that serious I'd be a local coordinator and I'd be attending all these regional conferences and training summits.
"That's why your people are being ignored...,"
LOL@ this. HR 1207 and S604 are getting plenty of attention bruh mayne, and it has nothing to do with anyone being "my people" or not.
Gray Conservative
Two things. I don't think the media had to "create" the race issue on this topic. Are they playing that issue up because it's guaranteed to drive ratings, sure. The same thing happened with the Gates controversy. In both instances complex topics were distilled into soundbites that fostered controversy. That's what the media does, particularly on television. But, that doesn't mean the race dynmaic is unimportant or non-existent.
Second issue, on the discussion of why it's noteworthy that an armed man was able to get into an event with the President.
Check out this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html
"You throw out numbers that suggest that abortions are bad for black folks health, and then tell them that the reason why they are getting so many abortions is because white Jews want them to get them." Big Man
Nah BM.
Again. You misunderstand.
I throw out the disproportionate numbers of black abortions to demonstrate the presence of an abortion apparatus TARGETING black people.
Which begs the question, who is doing the targeting?
I submit it is the same people tricking you into demanding Plantation Health Care today.
The same people ensuring as many of your unborn children die as possible are now offering to "Care" for your family.
They trick you by presenting it to you as something PREVIOUSLY DENIED.
(See the image above of the little sad looking black girl looks like she was snatched from the Birmingham Church bombing.)
"But, you also say that the reason why black folks have poor health has nothing to do with white folks denying them access to adequate health care, it only has to do with their unwillingness to eat right and exercise." Big Man
Is that what I said?
Cool. Makes perfect sense to me.
A Pizza Hut eating brother with High Blood Pressure and diabetes is going to die not because of WHAT HE HAS BEEN DENIED ... but because of what HE HAS BEEN GIVEN.
I know you want to find some racial contradiction in my argument here because of that Henry Louis Gates conversation we had last week.
But like CNu on abortion. You stretching.
Nah DV, I ain't stretching at all.
Here is what you just said:
"I throw out the disproportionate numbers of black abortions to demonstrate the presence of an abortion apparatus TARGETING black people."
In the Gates argument, you said that his arrest was not related to his being a black man despite the exact same evidence that the police TARGET black people. You said Gates was married to the Plantation, and it was laughable to assume that him being black was related to his arrest.
You are arguing here that the poor health care in black communities is not due to some apparatus targeting black people for denial of service, but because black people won't get off their butts and lose weight.
As you can see, I understand exactly what you're saying.
The problem is that you attribute problems in the black community to some outside force only when it suits your purposes.
If you were being intellectually consistent, you would argue that the inordinate amount of abortions in the black community are due to a lack of family values and lack of self control. That would put you FIRMLY in the same camp as Byrdeye, Thordaddy and many others.
You refuse to make this argument and instead blame rich, white Jews.
The question then becomes, why is Denmark Vesey willing blame white folks when it comes to abortion, but so taken aback by blaming white folks in other situations? I mean, blaming whitey is Plantation Negro behavior in most posts. But when it comes to criticizing rappers and Kobe, or talking about abortion, it's ok to point at the whiteys.
Just seems odd.
Big Man
"The question then becomes, why is Denmark Vesey willing blame white folks when it comes to abortion, but so taken aback by blaming white folks in other situations? I mean, blaming whitey is Plantation Negro behavior in most posts. But when it comes to criticizing rappers and Kobe, or talking about abortion, it's ok to point at the whiteys"
It's called Hypocrisy!
Now have you noticed the trend of who DV defends... Very seldom educated black men... or women
Normally black males who are...
athletes: Kobe, Vick etc
entertainers: M.J., 50cent, Lil Wayne
militants: Garvey(barely)
models: Tyson, Iman
Now witness the "plantation negro" mantra used to denigrate the skilled. Now what's more effective then a black man calling a skilled black man a "plantation negro" for not challenging vaccinations... when I have never witnessed a challenge from the likes of Snoop or Lil Weezy!
This is the cause of the inconsistent logic within DV's own debates.
Knowledge is power! without it I can control the masses. DV (the blackest man on the planet) is a prop to confuse you with a little truth mixed in with a lot of B.S which is very effective for the Plantation Owners.
DV keep up the great work!
U.A.P.
Undercover Agent of the Plantation
You trying too hard Casper.
You still haven't recovered from that ass whupping back in 2007.
Big Man said: "Gray Conservative
Two things. I don't think the media had to "create" the race issue on this topic. Are they playing that issue up because it's guaranteed to drive ratings, sure. The same thing happened with the Gates controversy. In both instances complex topics were distilled into soundbites that fostered controversy. That's what the media does, particularly on television. But, that doesn't mean the race dynmaic is unimportant or non-existent."
I don't think I ever said it was non-existent Big Man. I said straight up that some of the people at these townhalls were frothing Bubbas who more than likely had a chip on their shoulder about the skin color of the President. I also said we shouldn't lump those people in with other white folks who aren't on that tip.
Big Man said: "Second issue, on the discussion of why it's noteworthy that an armed man was able to get into an event with the President."
Okay, let's put this in perspective.
I've already mentioned the DHS and MIAC reports which enumerate all the characteristics associated with potential domestic terrorists. Some of the language in the MIAC report is lifted verbatim from preexisting ADL documents. The profile of the type people who could potentially want to show up somewhere and shoot the President is well documented and has been for some time. If you've read the MIAC report, you'll know this guy who showed up to the event fit the description to a T.
Clearly, the government has done its homework and is prepared for such potentialities. I'm not worried about anyone shooting the President. We have enough documents that provide details to officials about the profile of potential actors. When I passed the McCain campaign bus going in the other direction on the freeway the line of State trooper squad cars was about 40 deep—and that was just the convoy that was riding a couple miles ahead of the actual bus. McCain was just a candidate at the time.
...but then again, way before September 11th 2001, it seems like we had enough documents that provided details to officials about the profile of potential terrorists proper. There was plenty of counter-terrorism literature that mentioned foreign nationals signing up for flight training courses in the U.S. Even with these warnings, what happened?
You say that it's "noteworthy" that a guy brought a gun (legally) to a Presidential event where no one got hurt, but the only one who "noted" it was the media. Like you said, "it's what they do". It's only "noteworthy" because it was they who noted it in the first place. In that sense, it's only noteworthy to the extent that they say it's noteworthy.
What's noteworthy, to me at least, is the fact that the guy who showed up to the event fit the MIAC description perfectly, but yet nothing actually happened. Was the guy even arrested? What's note worthy is the fact that, despite all the research and warnings, shit like this still happens.
Gray Conservative said:
What's noteworthy, to me at least, is the fact that the guy who showed up to the event fit the MIAC description perfectly, but yet nothing actually happened. Was the guy even arrested? What's note worthy is the fact that, despite all the research and warnings, shit like this still happens.
Homie, we agree completely. I apologize if my agreement on this point was not clear. It's noteworthy to me because this guy would seem like the last person who would be allowed to post up at the President's townhall meeting without some sort of search. I didn't really grasp how he got past the Secret Service until I read that Telegraph article about how badly the agency is struggling to protect the President because of manpower shortages.
That was my point. A kooky dude is important when circumstances are aligning to give his kooky butt a lot of power.
Makheru, we already have the DHS report and the MIAC report. What more do you want done to prevent something tragic from happening? --GC
GC, I think the first priority is an awareness of the total scope of the dynamics at work.
For example, how many of us have heard of The Family?
[What’s most disturbing about it, though, is that we see that the sort of fundamentalist front within the military and the Family, in fact, are not two separate tracks, but very closely linked. Even the biggest and sort of most militant group within the military, called Officers’ Christian Fellowship, 15,000 officers, when we traced it back and looked at their history, we discovered that some of their seed money, some of their early ideas, the organizing initiatives, all come from the Family. So you see, in effect, that the Family is working in all fronts, not just in Congress and in business and overseas, but also in the military. So you take those ideas, and you put guns next to them, and it becomes very frightening.] – Jeff Sharlet
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/12/sharlet
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