Denmark Vesey said ...
After the Emancipation Proclamation, only a handful of freed slaves immediately separated themselves from their former masters. Lacking either the resources or will to be free, the vast majority elected not to leave the security and safety of the plantation.
These partially emancipated slaves (sharecroppers) transitioned to a new economic and political reality, that bound them to the land, made them politically impotent, and kept them in perpetual debt. Stuck in the matrix of a simultaneously adversarial yet completely dependent relationship with the Plantation, these people became the first Plantation Negros.
The Plantation Negro reasoned, at least he could eat, even though he was not free. They were fed a diet designed to keep them alive, while costing the plantation as little as possible. However, early plantation negros were resilient and resourceful. They were able to supplement their diets with organic vegetables and naturally raised animals.
As the summer of the agrarian era evolved into a cold industrial winter, Plantation Negros developed relationships with the Factory. In exchange for safety and security, the Factory ensured the Plantation Negro a home. However, he remained politically impotent and as he was integrated into the culture of consumption, he became increasingly in debt.
Again, the Plantation Negro reasoned even though he was not free, at least he could eat. Tragically, now living in urban areas, the Plantation Negro was not able to supplement his diet by working the earth. The Factory filled this void by manufacturing cheap processed food which destroyed the organs of Plantation Negros and made disease inevitable. Now, added to the cost of housing and food, the Plantation Negro suddenly found himself saddled by something called Health Care costs.
What promised to be the spring of the Digital era witnessed a change in the relationship between the Plantation Negro and the Factory. It became a relationship between the Plantation Negro and the Corporation. In exchange for safety and security, the Plantation Negro was able to get multiple mortgages, credit cards, and school loans so the Plantation could educate his children.
Although he remained politically impotent and in insurmountable debt the Plantation Negro reasoned he could at least get Health Care.
As the bubble of the Digital era pops, the Plantation Negro finds himself wading in the tumultuous waters of economic upheaval, social collapse and an impending tsunami of disease. The Plantation that became the Factory which became the Corporation is now masquerading as the Government.
In exchange for safety and security, the Government provides housing by insuring mortgages, it finances debt and educates children. As an extension of its patronage, the Corpaorate / Government will continue to feed Plantation Negros an increasingly toxic diet of genetically modified food and prescription drugs, that not only makes them sick, but appears to sterilize the Plantation Population as well.
This year the Plantation / Factory / Corporate / Government is introducing a new product. It is called National (Plantation) Health Care. Sadly Plantation Negros think the same people who poisoned them are actually offering an antidote.
Friday, July 24, 2009
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57 comments:
If you want to be a caricature who bleats ignorant utterances from time to time...who am I to stop you. Carry on.
@ DMG - Couldn't we lower the price of insurance if the companies stopped paying for male pattern baldness, lypo, erectile dysfunction, boob jobs and anything induced by one's lifestyle choices?
Couldn't we lower costs if drug companies stopped paying doctors to push their products?
If not - how could costs be lowered while increasing the basic care given to those in need?
John, elimination of parasitic health insurers and fraudulent billing practices by healthcare providers would clean up a whole lot of the waste fraud and abuse in the system.
Implementation of scientific best practices in medicine, attacking the incredible variation in care delivery services and outcomes would probably handle the bulk of the rest of the issues.
A single payer public insurance system not driven by a for-profit motive is job number one.
Since folks squeal like pigs under a gate when I hold up the DoD TriCare system, I'll substitute the Mayo system of care delivery (Mayo, a name folks can blindly and uncritically trust) which does things better and cheaper than most others and has the reputation that goes with it.
Sub, sorry bout clownin mayne.
I should have automatically given you the benefit of the doubt wrt the scope of your statement.
Now that you've raised it, close scrutiny of the questioner who interjected skippergate into the preznit's Q&A probably IS warranted.
That said, I'm turribly disappointed in how weak and bumbling Obama's handling of the issue has been thus far. I can't for the life of me comprehend his apparent inability to clearly and simply articulate the problem and propose a phased, onto, solution.
Either brahman really isn't properly prepared on this issue, or, plutocrats got him tongue-tied.
Which one of these, or a third unconsidered possibility, you think it is?
To your point Sub;
Obama wryly took note of the distraction from his legislative efforts.
"I don't know if you've noticed, but nobody's been paying much attention to health care," the president said.
Obama, who has come under intense criticism from police organizations, said he had called Crowley to clear the air, and said the conversation confirmed his belief that the sergeant is an "outstanding police officer and a good man."
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs refused to say whether Obama had apologized to Crowley.
Asked repeatedly about that, Gibbs said if Obama "doesn't want to characterize" his remarks to Crowley, "I'm not going to get ahead of him."
The story had taken on a life of its own, and the White House scrambled to keep up.
Gibbs said just Friday morning that the president had probably said most of what he was going to say, and that the only problem was media "obsession."
A single payer public insurance system not driven by a for-profit motive is job number one.
Ladies and gentlemen... from the folks who brought you farm subsidies, Freddie Mac and the F-22 fighter... it's a whole new kind of American health care!
Waste, fraud and abuse will become things of the past!
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose!
We're the Government; trust us.
David, you should let the unification church know that it's time for them to update their propaganda in light of neverending economic contraction facing the U.S.
The ideological tropes and specious elite narratives of "free market" prosperity died along with capitalism over the past year.
Catch up already..,
The ideological tropes and specious elite narratives of "free market" prosperity died along with capitalism over the past year.
Then how come those selfsame "tropes" and "narratives" got Obama soft-shoeing, stutter-stepping and doing the Electric Slide?
"If you like the insurance you have, you can keep it!"
"I will not sign a bill that adds one dollar to the federal deficit!"
"The government getting into the insurance market will increase competition!"
Lying his lips off. Prez knows that belief in free markets is still a cornerstone of the American political identity. So he must talk the talk of choice, competition and fiscal restraint.
Your prescription of "single-payer" would put Obama on a bullet train back to Hyde Park. Because the American people don't want. If the American people did want it, the Republicans would be scared shitless about paying a price at the polls for their no-go-ism.
Do the Republicans look scared shitless to you?
How about Obama?
That "acted stupidly" remark was a choke... a case of the yips. The greatest political intellect in America, and he's been looking like an amateur ever since health care hit the top of the agenda.
Check his feet out. Watch him dance.
Single payer would be the best option. a public option is a reasonable political compromise. It has a well established track record in Europe and Canada with better measurable health outcomes. Since patients based on necessity or convenience bounce from hospital to hospital and doctor to doctor a national data base so that a provider can view the patient's entire medical history is essential.
The only slave here is DV-a slave to unbridled passion. Your
Then how come those selfsame "tropes" and "narratives" got Obama soft-shoeing, stutter-stepping and doing the Electric Slide?
Because he's beholden to insurance industry plutocrats, his testicular fortitude is substantially lower than FDR's, and he lacks the popular political backing to force the issue with his plutocratic, elite, establishment patrons.
BHO cannot don the "traitor to his class" mantle heroically worn by Roosevelt.
Prez knows that belief in free markets is still a cornerstone of the American political identity.
That fairy tale, along with cornucopian growth and consumption, exceptionalism, and the "moral high ground" are all figments of the american popular imagination he's too craven to confront.
Your prescription of "single-payer" would put Obama on a bullet train back to Hyde Park. Because the American people don't want. If the American people did want it, the Republicans would be scared shitless about paying a price at the polls for their no-go-ism.
Dood, you ideological propagandists have done your jobs so proficiently and well that it's going to guarantee the untimely crash, demise, and deaths of 10's if not hundreds of millions of your minions and ilk.
Sub's comment also gets at the police state aspects of the national sickcare plan.
National Database.
Let me say that again because it bears repeating.
NATIONAL DATABASE.
Doctors, as well as teachers, are already on the front lines of being the biggest snitches, informants, tattle tales in the country, calling CPS, the cops or whoever else when a parent doesn't follow their orders.
The national database will make sure that everyone takes that little pill.
"Mr. Smith, I see that your Primary High Priest wrote your child a prescription for Dumb-Downitrol and Stupidlavex, but you never filled them."
Dina, do you, your husband, and daughter have SSN's and did you pay income taxes?
oh yeah..., do you use telephony and ISP services from any carrier other than Qwest?
from the folks who brought you farm subsidies, Freddie Mac and the F-22 fighter
HOLLA
We all know that government = inefficiency. As well as reduced freedom of choice.
Which is why government-controlled healthcare is a very bad, bad, BAD idea.
Unless your a pharmaceutical company looking for big, guaranteed contracts and hotsaged markets.
After the Emancipation Proclamation, only a handful of freed slaves immediately separated themselves from their former masters. Lacking either the resources or will to be free, the vast majority elected not to leave the security and safety of the plantation.
That's a lie. Again you are careless with facts.
Craig,
Indeed. Indeed. The SSN is the plug into the matrix.
However, Sub's comment went precisely to the point of DV's post - the use of doctors and pills to control the components of the matrix.
Doctors' jubilant desire to expand the matrix and become part of the enforcer class is the primary point of the national sickcare plan. Not some baloney about Mabel down the street who can't afford generic drugs for her high blood pressure.
Dina,
If you're participants in the "voluntary" income tax compliance system, enrolled in the social security administration's tax withholding program, and a user of any of the 8 major Level 3 TIA compliant carriers...,
EVERYTHING you have to say about a hypothetical big brother longitudinal electronic medical records system is just childish conversation.
Seriously.
It's past game over time for you and yours already.
DV...
"After the Emancipation Proclamation, only a handful of freed slaves immediately separated themselves from their former masters. Lacking either the resources or will to be free, the vast majority elected not to leave the security and safety of the plantation."
DV. You're embarrassingly ignorant of history. The Emancipation proclamation issued on September 22, 1862 and its final form on January 1, 1863 freed only those slaves in the areas that were under the control of the Confederacy. Nonetheless, hundreds of thousands of slaves (out of 4 million) escaped the Southern plantations, crossed Union lines and three hundred thousand of those enlisted in the US Army and fought their former masters knowing that if captured they would be executed on the spot or sold back into slavery. 60,000 died. There has never again been a generation of black folks in America that was more "black" than that one. These were people that could not read, could not write, knew nothing of geography and who had been emasculated in ways that are almost incomprehensible today. Your disdain for this, greatest generation of Africans in America is mindboggling and shameful.
Thank you Michael.
Insurgent, the medical establishment in the US opposes national healthcare. And anecdotically I can tell you that probably ten percent of the doctors at my hospital in urban Baltimore support a public option.
"The Emancipation Proclamation was in 1862." MF
Yup.
And the people who picked the cotton one year after "The Emancipation Proclamation", are the same people who picked the cotton one year before "The Emancipation Proclamation".
The people who picked the cotton 10 years after "The Emancipation Proclamation" are the same people who picked the cotton 10 years before The Emancipation Proclamation.
"The Emancipation Proclamation" no more FREED black people than Brown v Board educated black people.
The Union victory over the Confederacy was a hostile takeover. A business move. A cheap built-in labor class was simply an undervalued asset.
Slavery didn't end. It was a change in management.
Insurgent, the medical establishment in the US opposes national healthcare.
Good to know. What are their concerns?
I hope this thread demonstrates to open-minded observers how intellectually compromised and feeble is the "Plantation Negro" narrative which underscores Denmark Vesey's philosophy. The reason he can tolerate anonymous racist trolls is that he shares their contempt for black people.
Black people may have been enslaved but they were never merely slaves. Neither were they just cotton pickers or "a cheap built-in labor class." They were mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, churchgoers, schoolteachers, activists, scientists, artisans, mechanics, engineers, doctors, etc.
In Denmark Vesey's dim view black people at the nadir were vulnerable weaklings but I see us as the ultimate survivors able to negotiate the worst of circumstances and create poetry and art. These sharecroppers were the the very embodiment of Marcus Aurelius's stoic admonition:
Unhappy am I because this has happened to me.- Not so, but happy am I, though this has happened to me, because I continue free from pain, neither crushed by the present nor fearing the future. For such a thing as this might have happened to every man; but every man would not have continued free from pain on such an occasion. Why then is that rather a misfortune than this a good fortune? And dost thou in all cases call that a man's misfortune, which is not a deviation from man's nature? And does a thing seem to thee to be a deviation from man's nature, when it is not contrary to the will of man's nature? Well, thou knowest the will of nature. Will then this which has happened prevent thee from being just, magnanimous, temperate, prudent, secure against inconsiderate opinions and falsehood; will it prevent thee from having modesty, freedom, and everything else, by the presence of which man's nature obtains all that is its own? Remember too on every occasion which leads thee to vexation to apply this principle: not that this is a misfortune, but that to bear it nobly is good fortune.
I guess I shouldn't be too hard on you because after all even your remote ancestor was prone to confabulation. "Poppa Harris' said his people were never "in bondage", but were descendants of black people native to America." While I don't expect you to care or follow my recommendation I would direct your open-minded guests to read When Affirmative Action Was White by Ira Katznelson. What you'll learn is how the New Deal was a two-tiered system which gave white people houses and black folks projects. It gave white veterans entry into colleges and subsequent managerial and leadership roles and omitted blacks. Facing the political-economic version of being trapped behind enemy lines, black culture and psychology was declared the cause of misery.
So, for example, in 1960 you could have a black couple in Chicago put $6,000 down payment for a house on contract sold at $25,000 which was flipped by the seller who bought it a month earlier for $9,000 during a panic of white flight. The couple are both forced to work and leave their children home unsupervised while subletting the house to one, two, sometimes three families in order to get by. Simultaneously discrimination limited rental opportunities leading to overcrowding and slum conditions. Then you get white newspaper reporters (and Denmark Vesey too) saying that the moral laxity and idleness inherited from their rural/slave background is the cause of black deficiencies.
What is crystal clear to me is that you don't really know black people. It's as if you have this highly stylized but cartoonish view of black folks. You're worse than Jamie Kennedy. Sure you can sentimentally go on for days telling anthropological fables about black Israelites but you can't see the people in your face. But maybe that's what happens when your formative years are spent in a secure enclave at a distance from colored people in all our wonderful varieties.
Money and power, II.
DV...
"'The Emancipation Proclamation' no more FREED black people..."
Obviously, it didn't free those who had to remain in Confederate controlled territory. But that is not the point. You are portraying black folks as people who wanted to be slaves and did nothing to resist. Black people before and after 1865 picked cotton and remained on the plantations because they were forced to by sheer terror. Or what do you think the KKK and it's sister organizations was about? You think it is a coincidence that the KKK was founded by one of the biggest southern slaveholders and war criminals, Nathan Bedford Forrest? Now WHY do you think these folks found it necessary to set up terrorist organizations like that? Because black folks didn't want to leave the plantation and take control over their own lives? If things were indeed as you assert them, no such organizations would have been needed.
You need to give that Denmark Vesey moniker back and adopt another one. Stepin' "Fiddy" Fetchit comes to mind as absolutely appropriate.
Wowzers! I've just sat back and watched this conversation throughout the evening and decided to say something.
Although I don't think a single payer national healthcare is feasible for many reasons, I think the spirit of trying to provide care to all Americans is a laudable one. Frankly, though, I think the way in which these politicians wish to implement such a system is wanting.
Submariner brought up great points about the complexities of history. It is quite easy to look at history through revisionist eyes and overly simplify the realities of those times. It certainly is an oversimplification to call the Blacks that stayed on as sharecroppers plantation negroes because we don't have a clue as to the external and internal spiritual pressures they faces. We can only guess. But to be honest, when I think of what our ancestors had to go though, I am surprised that we are all here; that many of us are sane and positively contributing to the world.
The domestic terrorism of the KKK post Reconstruction is especially vital to analyze because the KKK wielded so very much power in the post civil war south. Any opportunities that opened up for Blacks during Reconstruction were promptly closed to Blacks after a while.
A system of legal terrorism was instituted and sanctioned by the state and federal government! For this reason, I find it awful hard to reduce the role of the slaves and ex slaves to simply 'plantation negroes and field negroes'.
Take a hike Mike. I ain't nowhere as much as a Tom as that dude.
Although I don't think a single payer national healthcare is feasible for many reasons, I think the spirit of trying to provide care to all Americans is a laudable one.
Mahndisa why do you think that is when so many other OECD nations enjoy this benefit?
After the Emancipation Proclamation, only a handful of freed slaves immediately separated themselves from their former masters. Lacking either the resources or will to be free, the vast majority elected not to leave the security and safety of the plantation.
I agree with the sentiments already expressed. This statement by “Mr. Vesey” demonstrates an incredible degree of historical ignorance, and absolute blasphemy of the spirit of the real Denmark Vesey.
Why was it necessary for the United States government to pass Fugitive Slave Laws in 1793 and in 1850? Why, because Afrikans were liberating themselves by the tens of thousands on an annual basis.
The Law passed in 1850 prompted this response from the great Martin R. Delany:
“If any man approaches [my] house in search of a slave—I care not who he may be, whether constable, or sheriff, magistrate or even judge of the Supreme Court—nay let it be President Millard Fillmore surrounded by his cabinet and his bodyguards—if he crosses the threshold of my door, and I do not lay him a lifeless corpse at my feet, I hope the grave may refuse my body a resting place, and righteous heaven my spirit a home. O, no! He cannot enter my house and we both live.”
Meanwhile below the Mason-Dixon line Afrikans were already practicing what Dr. Delany was preaching:
“In the South, most of the self-liberating black people eventually entered the camps, or they otherwise came under the aegis of the Northern armies, they were undoubtedly acting on significant, independent initiatives. During the first years of the war, the mainstream of the struggle in the South continued to bear this independent, self-authenticating character, REFUSING TO WAIT FOR AN OFFICIAL EMANCIPATION.
In such setting black hope blossomed, fed by its own activity. Even in the ambiguous context of the contraband communities the signs were there. In 1862-63, in Corinth, Mississippi, newly freed blacks in one of the best of the contraband camps organized themselves under federal oversight, and created the beginnings of an impressive, cohesive community of work, education, family life, and worship. They built their own modest homes, planted and grew crops, supported their own schools, and eventually developed their own military company to fight with the Union armies. It was not surprising, then, that black fugitives flocked there from as far away as Georgia.” -- Dr. Vincent Harding
In light of this history, only a person who has been totally brainwashed by white supremacist “happy slave” propaganda could say that our ancestors were “lacking either the resources or will to be free.”
Holla
I'm not an African American or an American so I'm not as clued up as y'all on Af-Am slave history so I'll just sit on the fence with this one and read thru.
What I will comment on is this:
CNu said: "The ideological tropes and specious elite narratives of "free market" prosperity died along with capitalism over the past year. "
And then said: "That fairy tale, along with cornucopian growth and consumption, exceptionalism, and the "moral high ground" are all figments of the american popular imagination he's too craven to confront."
Sorry I don't know you but that statement right thurr makes you sound like a Stan for Obamanomics; as though you're selling his rhetoric as signifiers of real hope and change, but I ain't buying it. The free market is alive and well with BO as the Bankers President! He just gave $200 billion to AIG with bonuses unregulated, but federal chartered health care services get $2 billion, only $155 million that 126 units must spread among themselves - yet its places like these should be the main deliverers of his health care plan. The legislation on banks is nothing significant, there are checks here and there but in reality Wall St remains untouchable. And thanks to the national treasury, this administration has given almost $14 trillion for this recession & the spending's not stopping.
"Fairy tale....moral high ground" Nah, please - this is another Stan statement! Its still the same game; just a prettier face with more swagger as Captain of Team America. Exceptionalism and the moral high ground are still very much a part of BO's America. Just look at BO's foreign policy, he's refused to get involved in Honduras bec it would affect America's military operations, he goes off to Ghana and tries to broach the subject of AfriCom to set up military bases on the Continent while he continues strikes on Afghanistan - all in the name of promoting America's idea of "democracy and good governance" In Iraq, he's def doing his dance as Undercover Black Man said, extending the pull-out dates and as for Gitmo & Bagram - man is way in over his depth. The next seven years are going to be more of the same; I think his heart's in the right place but no one person can take down Babylon (if that's even his mission or what corporate media has sold to the world) Its up to the people to bring about revolution and create a different America and the sooner the people en masse start to challenge Prez BO to deliver on his election promises, the better - otherwise the corporates will continue to run America as they always have and the myth of America's global greatness (which is bullying in reality) will never change.
Here's an article by John Pilger. It puts into historical context jst where BO stands in the long line of American Presidents;
http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2009/07/pilger-obama-america-world
LOL!
KonWomyn...,
reread my words more carefully and slowly next time.
we have no argument - aside from the one that jumped off in your imagination and picked me as its counterpart.
save all of that spirited blah-blah for somebody with whom you genuinely disagree, umm-kay?
KonWomyn I would direct you to Carroll Quigley. It's kind of long and not the easiest read but essential nonetheless. Individual private enterprise as the engine for growth and expansion hasn't existed since the post-war era. Two examples to consider, the national highway transportation system and the internet. Also read Alan Greenspan's Age of Turbulence to understand the existential crisis at the end of the last century when the US government had a surplus. It will probably be at least a month's (took me six) worth of intense reading but it will enlighten you immensely.
Ok CNu I don't do arrogance and sidecomments, a simple 'plse re-read' woulda been nice. I did read and yea granted I took your first comment outta context so I'll admit to that. But the second I re-read, you say BO is "too craven to confront" the public illusion of the Great American - isn't more like he's chief architect as POTUS. How many times has the man said "We are the most powerful" and "We will defeat you"? And his foreign policy and war budget attest to this.
I'm not dying to have an argument as you so erroneously believe but jst pointing out some things I find questionable in your argument. Go 'head wit' your game but jst don't make claims that are cause to qsn you.
@ Sub Thanks very much for the Quigley link, I've only read a few of his articles and references to his work by other writers. For some reason it won't load. If y'can please re-post it, otherwise I can jst look for the book in the lib. Thanks.
KonWomyn,
I'm not dying to have an argument as you so erroneously believe but jst pointing out some things I find questionable in your argument. Go 'head wit' your game but jst don't make claims that are cause to qsn you.
You addressed me, not the other way around.
At this point, you remain the ONLY one of us with even the faintest idea of what exactly it is that you're talking about.
If you want me to respond to you, then ask me to clarify something I've written rather than indulge and exteriorize your own assumptions.
Oh, and please make the effort to make sense.
Or not, as you see fit. Makes me no nevermind what.so.ever....,
Ok, enlighten me plse. This is one of the statements you made:
In your script you wrote:
"UBM: Prez knows that belief in free markets is still a cornerstone of the American political identity.
CNu: That fairy tale, along with cornucopian growth and consumption, exceptionalism, and the "moral high ground" are all figments of the american popular imagination he's too craven to confront."
So are you saying that BO's
i. not feeding into this illusion ii. treading softly not confront public backlash where he to openly detract? Or is there something else you're saying?
Thank you KonWomyn,
I'm saying that;
1. BHO IS feeding into this illusion.
2. BHO IS treading softly not confront public backlash were he to openly detract.
3. BHO has atrocious and deceitful advisors/narratizers in the form of Larry Summers, et al. - so I'm not entirely persuaded to believe that he knows better or has been prepared to say better.
4. I'm not persuaded to think that BHO would say better even if properly prepared to know better. i.e, the plutocratic part of his constituency holds sway over his public pronouncements and these plutocrats still own and control permissible discourse in the collective mainstream.
Ok I co-sign on that. Sorry abt that. I guess I've not been here long enough to have heard you articulating your political standpoint in more detail so my assumption were based on what I read in this thread. As far as health insurance (its not healthcare) goes, its a similar manipulation except this thime the beneficiaries are the health insurers while the public is made to believe BO's administration is acting in the pple's interests. IMO there are too many holes in the Obama health insurance plan its timeline, the expense and its limited coverage. Doesn't the possibility of govt contracting pvt companies open the door for junk insurance and scams? In an ideal world a single payer plan wld have been the better choice - even though it has its own pitfalls. But its either Obama's half-baked option or nothing at all.
Meanwhile a group of rabbis from NY and NJ have their own healthcare plan for the elite class.
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2340189320090723?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8bh8GXXN8Q
[1. The FBI was advised of this organ traffciking ring SEVEN YEARS AGO by a totally credible source
(a university professor) and it's MUCH larger than a single potential transaction.
2. Law enforcement in Brazil and South Africa acted immediately on the information and went after the criminals.
3. This was not just organ dealing. It was organ stealing. Impoverished people were flown in and told if they didn't go through with the deal, they'd be shot. Some had no idea the details of what they'd agreed to.
Organs were "bought" for $10,000 and re-sold for $150,000 and more.
It took the FBI SEVEN YEARS to get themselves in gear and get an indictment.] Brasschecktv
Rabbis busted and no major coverage by the MSM--what a coincidence.
There are 2 types of citizens here - and it's always easy to tell who's who by which policies they support.
1) Single moms and unemployed thugs with no morals who like to leech off the system (while putting nothing in) will always support liberal "Robin Hood" policies of universal benefits via redistribution of wealth (government thievery).
2) Responsible, hard-working citizens will fight against such unfair policies since THEY will be the ones footing the bills and supporting such slackers.
[quote]A single payer public insurance system not driven by a for-profit motive is job number one. [/quote]
What a surprise! Our resident "Anarcho-Capitalist" proves once again that the label that he has claimed as his own is merely something that he thought was "cool" after hearing someone else call themselves that.
Clearly those who promote "civil rights" have little respect for "ECONOMIC RIGHTS". Thus despite that I have a dollar to provide to a PHYSICIAN who is DRIVEN BY PROFIT.....in the wacky world of KCNulan - I will not be PERMITTED to spend this dollar with who I choose to.
I am for SINGLE PAYER in this regard.
Instead of making a "Single Payer Health Care System" (which is really a "Multiple Taxpayer Paid Health Care System") and thus forcing all Americans into this flawed and central controlled system - turn the present PUBLIC HOSPITALS into SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE FACILITIES!!
Where as the fantastical goal of the leftist confiscators is to create a national health care budget and then give a fixed amount of money to a particular facility, forcing them to accept all who walk through their front door, treating them using their allocation I propose a different construct. Make these facilities single payer while allowing the current PRIVATE HOSPITALS to go on, unmolested by the central government.
A hospital such as Grady Hospital in Atlanta that is presently funded by two local counties would receive more funding from the federal government. Whereas today these hospitals seek payment from your private insurance if you have it they run into problems because upto 63% of their current patient load does not have insurance.
Whereas in the local "Single Payer Health Care Forum" that I attended this past spring focused upon removing the insurance companies out of the equation and in effect "sticking it to the hospitals", forcing them to become more efficient - this same spirit should be put upon the government hospitals. They will need to become more efficient in order to handle the increased load of patients who walk through their door.
The key issue that is often absent from this present debate is one of PRIVATE PROPERTY. What RIGHT do YOU have to MY PRIVATE FINANCIAL RESOURCES as YOU pursue health care services for yourself? Frequently the progressive puts this burden upon the wealthy.......but can never ARTICULATE WHAT RESPONSIBILITY THOSE WITHOUT MONEY TO PAY HAVE TO THE SOCIETY.
The standard that is present in the PRIVATE health care space is assumed to be their point of reference for the PUBLIC hospital space per their pursuit of SOCIAL JUSTICE. Most of the other points of debate derives from this will to confiscate property in one's own self interest.
Why would a radically autonomous, self-proclaimed black supremacist, advocate for a single-payer system while vociferously castigating the "black man" that would usher in this abomination with an audacity not seen before?
Does Nulance suggest that the single-payer system will do anything more than what the current system does now for those 46 million uninsured Americans?
Does Nulance suggest that creating a large bureaucracy to oversee these newly insured 46 million Americans will cut health care costs?
Does Nulance suggest that with the government acting as a broker between doctor and patient X, the negotiated payout will always be the minimum required or the maximum suggested?
Does Nulance suggest that a single-payer system will provide better medical services because doctors that support it are primarily concerned about job security and guaranteed government payouts?
Does Nulance suggest that the financing of the health care system require cost-cutting measures to take place including such measures as taking human liabilities of the books? Are pre-existing conditions like "unwanted fetus" to be included in this "universal" coverage?
Isn't it a radical autonomist lie to suggest that the advocacy for the single-payer system is about ensuring universal "health" coverage when it is really about gaining autonomy through external control?
What better way to seek radical autonomy than to support the control of others with the implication that you remain outside the system.
The single-payer system is the stuff of radical elites seeking the freedom to move uninhibited via the construction of environments that inhibit the rest of us. They desire a system where "they" take care of the necessities while you earn that paltry paycheck to finance your own debauchery.
rotflmbao...,
did you two twinkies watch the sun rise together this morning and decide after one last reach-around to jointly blog chindribble against the unattainable and unassailable CNu?
Barr&Farst LLC....,
Thus despite that I have a dollar to provide to a PHYSICIAN who is DRIVEN BY PROFIT
Before you consult such a doctor be sure to check their (mal)practice history. Ask Michael Jackson.
I wonder if those opposed to single-paywer healthcare are also opposed to Medicare? Because that's essentially what single-payer healthcare is--Medicare for
all.
[Under a single-payer system, all Americans would be covered for all medically necessary services, including: doctor, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive health care, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs. Patients would regain free choice of doctor and hospital, and doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.
Physicians would be paid fee-for-service according to a negotiated formulary or receive salary from a hospital or nonprofit HMO / group practice. Hospitals would receive a global budget for operating expenses. Health facilities and expensive equipment purchases would be managed by regional health planning boards.
A single-payer system would be financed by eliminating private insurers and recapturing their administrative waste. Modest new taxes would replace premiums and out-of-pocket payments currently paid by individuals and business. Costs would be controlled through negotiated fees, global budgeting and bulk purchasing.]
[The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 45.7 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.
This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $400 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.] pnhp.org
My man
This is because private insurance bureaucracy and paperwork consume one-third (31 percent) of every health care dollar. Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $400 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.] pnhp.org
and let's be perfectly clear - this useless, parasitic, for-profit cancer is precisely what farcedaddy, coonstructive feed-on-Black, and undercoverblackman are arguing vocierferously to preserve.
They're either stupid or evil, or both....,
[quote]I wonder if those opposed to single-paywer healthcare are also opposed to Medicare? Because that's essentially what single-payer healthcare is--Medicare for
all. [/quote]
Makheru Bradley:
I bet that you are satisfied that this is a JUSTIFICATION for your argument for "Multi-Taxpayer Paid Health Care", don't you?
My argument against such a system comes down to PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Despite all of the magic tricks that you and others will pull before hand (aka: lying to us) the fact remains that IF it was only WASTE AND INEFFICIENCY in the present system that was enough to cover 52 million uninsured people with a deficit neutral manner: YOU WOULD HAVE DONE IT ALREADY.
The TRUTH of the matter is:
* The government doesn't give a DAMNED THING about EFFICIENCY. I have a co-worker who is charged with monitoring the transportation industry. Each day I receive a new flurry of government funding for railroads. The Atlanta trolley system that was previously found to be FINANCIALLY UNJUSTIFIABLE now has new life.
PLEASE STOP WITH THE FOOLISHNESS ABOUT EFFICIENCY with an entity that is now $11,000 BILLION in debt!!! You want to hand over your livelihood to THIS entity. You need your head examined.
* They simply want to squeeze the payments out of drug companies and medical service companies and put insurance companies out of business.
Despite all of the LIES that various Bill Moyers' guests tell - the health care insurance industry has made about $11 billion in PROFITS in recent years.
How many BILLIONS of dollars are unaccountable in various GOVERNMENT entities such as Defense or Education? Their accounting errors are larger than these $11 billion profits.
I will ask again: What in YOUR pursuit of health care gives you the right to take an unchecked amount of cash out of MY WALLET?
Worse - While many of you can articulate what the WEALTHY MAN owes society in the quest for universal health care, many of you are quite tepid in your ability to detail what those in pursuit of health OWE society.
[quote]are arguing vocierferously to preserve.[/quote]
Interesting.
I would argue, KCNulan, that I am seeking to avoid SERFDOM.
I thought that the Anarcho-Capitalists were against "DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM" where the MAJORITY can vote to confiscate one's private property in pursuit of their own goals?
In your perversion you are satisfied with communities that are presently without care being put into a state of being "IN RECEIPT OF BENEFIT".
Yesterday they woke up and faced a life without health insurance.
Today, after the bill has passed their life has been GREATLY ENHANCED with this new ENTITLEMENT, even though they are on the "Groundhog Day" wheel.
In terms of COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT and the management of CULTURAL CONFIDENCE to direct the individuals in your band toward a certain beneficial end - THIS PLAN is a direct assault upon such a concept.
I recall when "The Blacks" in New Orleans were highly pissed when contracts were let to CLEAN UP THEIR OWN STREETS as a means of the GOVERNMENT expressing their value. They were angry because SOMEONE ELSE GOT THE CONTRACTS TO CLEAN UP THEIR DAMNED STREETS!!!
KCNulan - THIS IS WHAT THEY ASKED FOR! They wanted to be MADE WHOLE (ie: have clean streets).
BECAUSE it was NOT THEIR DAMNED MONEY for them to control - the people WHO'S MONEY IT WAS indeed executed upon their wishes but tendered their CARE AND FEEDING to someone else from the outside who profited.
This is the greatest perversion of the thoughts of the Black Quasi-Socialist Progressive-Fundamentalist Racism Chaser!!! He has no damned clue in the development of community competencies.
He is not going to seek a new army of Black medical professionals to take care of the problems within his community. He wants to promote CONSUMERISM.
In his lack of consciousness he does not see the important link between the industriousness of his people and the standard of living that they are able to obtain by doing so.
If the system that he has become dependent upon was to collapse - they'd surely DIE.
So in other words Brother Feed when you get to old to do your "dollars in drawers" thing in Magic City you are going to refuse Medicare?
This talk of controlling cost is specious on your part. You want government to control cost? Then advocate for a cap on executive compensation. The primary reason that the United States doesn't have nationalized healthcare is racism. The same reason we don't have a labor party.
rotflmbao@bro.makheru
CoonieFeed-on-Black gone be mad'n'a'muhphuggah when blue cross blue shield of georgia rejects his claims for treatment of that nasty-draws induced MRSI infection on his cheeks, chin, and neck....,
[quote]So in other words Brother Feed when you get to old to do your "dollars in drawers" thing in Magic City you are going to refuse Medicare?
[/quote]
Makheru Bradley - I haven't been to "Magic City" in years. Now the "Candy Shop"............
Someone has to pay these women's living expenses. Most of them are single mothers with dead beat "baby daddies". What's wrong with a lil' "Shake What You Mamma Gave Ya" from time to time?
You live to give KCNulan a rise - don't you MB?
Ahhhh ... Sub. How disappointingly pedestrian.
I don't even know where to start.
You think this is commentary is about black people from the past?
I'm critiquing monkey ass Negros of today, with and without college degrees, who think water comes from the faucet and food comes from the grocery store.
I'm critiquing processed food eating diabetic Negros duped into outsourcing the management of their health to a government hijacked by private corporations.
I'm critiquing the New Bourgeois Negro so delighted to join the consumer class they fall over each other to become wards of the state.
Obviously you are eager to discredit, but in this thread, you are arguing with yourself.
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