"Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African.Jesus was a part of the culture he grew up in. The man was Jewish. He was not African."
"The man was Jewish. His momma was Jewish. His god was the Hebrew god. He likely looked more like my Lebanese and Palestinian friends." DMG
Clearly the original Biblical Jews and Hebrews were a Black African people from the line of Ham, and many of them still are, especially in northern Africa. Jesus, a Black Jew born during this time, had predicted that Jerusalem would be overthrown, the Temple would be destroyed, and the Black Hebrews would be scattered abroad. (Matt. 24:2,15-21, Luke 21: 5-6, 20-24).Modern Egyptians
The Roman-Jewish War in A.D. 66 marked the peak of this persecution and also the end of the original Black Jews (Hebrew-Israelites) as a nation, with 1.1 million Hebrews slain, causing the entire lake of Galilee to turn red with blood and become littered with corpses. Millions of original Black Jews fled to Africa seeking to avoid destruction, but centuries later, their descendants were captured and sold into slavery in the Americas and the Caribbean bound in chains by cruel slave-traders.
Ancient Israelite from Roman times Black Israelite immigrants from northern and eastern Africa merged with indigenous groups in western Africa to become the Fulani of Futa Jalon, Bornu, Kamen, and Lake Chad. They also formed the parent-stock of groups such as the Ashanti, the Hausa, the B'nai Ephraim, and the Mavumbu or Ma-yomba. However, each of these groups suffered massive population decreases during the Atlantic slave trade, while others were completely eliminated. This is an image of an ancient Israelite from the Roman period.
One of the facts scripture provides about Israel is in connection to their physical appearance, which is described as resembling the sons of Ham (Khawm). Ham (Khawm) means Black, hot and burnt. Israel is being compared to Ham's first born son Cush or Ethiopia in Amos 9: "are you not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, o children of Israel?" God calls the Israelites children of the Ethiopians, who are a known Black people. If ancient Israel were a white skinned people, it would have made more sense to compare them to another white skinned nation such as the Romans, Greeks or gentiles.
But the scriptures clearly compared Israel to a Black skinned people because Israel was and is a Black nation, being indistinguishable from native Egyptians and Ethiopians. Even Paul was mistaken for an "Egyptian" but declared himself to be a "Jew." (Acts 21:37-39, 22: 2,3) Ethiopian Hebrews Moreover, ancient secular historians like Tacitus agreed on the physical appearance of the Hebrews, stating that it was the common opinion among the Romans that the Jews "were an Ethiopian race."
Tacitus also remarked that the Hebrews were Egyptians who left Egypt during a disease outbreak. In Roman times, Palestinian-Israelites were classified among Black Africans because it was practically impossible to differentiate between them.
The name Hebrew was inherited through Abraham, ancestor of the Hebrews, who dwelt in the land of Ethiopia-Canaan. (Gen. 13:18, 14:13, 1Chron.11:3-6). There were two tribes, Benjamin and Judah of the Ethiopian-Canaanite-Israelites that had inherited the name "Jew". (2 Kings 16:6; 18:26, 28; 25:25). See also (Josh 15:20, 54; 18:21; 28).
The term Jews and Gentiles covers all the people on the earth. "Jew" in a metaphorical sense represents all Negroes who are symbolically called Sheep, and the title Gentile represents all straight haired people, who are symbolically referred to as Goats (Rom. 9:24; Dan. 8:20-21).
27 comments:
Wow Brother!!! If they didn't get it before I believe they got it now!!!! Ha ha ha ha
I think that God has an odd sense of humor.
Jesus will appear to each as that which each person hates the most (To a Jew as an Arab, To a Klansman as a Black or Jew, to a Racist Black as white, ...)
So were his disciples also black DV?
And your evidence (biblical or otherwise) that he's black?
Was he Roman?
No.
Was he Greek?
No.
Was he Arab?
No.
What else was left D?
Plenty. But you are dodging my questions. The man was Jewish. His momma was Jewish. His god was the Hebrew god. He likely looked more like my Lebanese and Palestinian friends.
Why is it that everything you seem to believe in has no basis in reality? Everyone doesn't have to be black to be cool.
DMG.
I didn't say Jesus was black.
I said he was a brother. I said he was a product of an African narrative.
I said your insistence that the teachings of Jesus are "the Slave Masters Religion" is historically flawed and spiritually shallow.
But since you are trapped in that black / white, Western / Eastern Hegelian headfake, I'll work with you there.
When Abraham and his band of Heb A Rews arrived in ancient Kemet around 1900 BC, Egypt was already an ancient civilization, a Super Power, an Empire, thousands of years old that stretched from the upper Nile to the Delta. And it was black. BLACK. African Black.
The Hebarews were a ragtag group of refugees numbering less than 70 people. They were without literature. They were without art. They were without a history. They were without a religion.
Wit me Doc?
Good.
Now. When Abraham's people left Egypt / Kemet / Africa ... 430 years later. They numbered 600,000 people and now had literature. They now had art. They now had a religion. They now had the Garden of Eden and the story of Adam. They now had the legend of the great flood. They now had a young Prince educated in the palace of the Pharoah named Moses and they had a history they PLAGARIZED from Africa.
You with me Doc? Don't get scared. You've already made it further than a cat like Undercover Black Man could ever make it.
Must I spell it out?
When the ... Hebarews or in Plantation speak the "Jewish" people left Egypt they were much more Egyptian / Kemet / African than when they arrived.
Man came out of Africa.
Why in the fuck would his religions come out of Europe?
"Why is it that everything you seem to believe in has no basis in reality?"
Translation:
DV, why do you believe things not promoted by the Plantation? What authority do you have to believe these things? Show me a book published by the plantation that says these things. Who else said it? Where's the white person who said it first?
"Where is the white person who said it first?"
Indeed, where is the white person who forced our ancestors to believe in Jesus instead of Eshu. You've had to make all of these twists and turns to obscure in your own mind the fact that you believe in the white mans version of god. Again, you claim Denmark Vesey as your avatar a product of Western African slaving, but you claim the culture and religion of some group 3,000 miles away and further. You talk about being Black African like being black means some sort of solidarity with the entire continent. It's only recently that you've turned your god back into looking like you (god in your own image and all). You talk about Abraham crossing the Sinai into Egypt, but have no idea what our ancestors (including those of Denmark Vesey) were doing at the time....and really you don't care...cause now you got BLACK Jesus, and you can be "revolutionary" and not have to feel small when some brother asks you why you are still worshiping the white mans god. Factual or not doesn't seem to bother you. You can have your "blackness" and the slave masters religion and sleep soundly now that you've reconciled the two.
Man came out of Africa many, many years before organized religion. Your scholarship is dubious at best...and like everything else you provide no evidence other than "I said so". The fact that you talk of plagiarism is hysterical. What do you think you've been doing this entire time?
How many times are you guys going to use "Hegelian headfake" with a straight face? Seriously?
DV, no matter how many ways you try to slice this to make your belief in Christianity to fit with your "off the Plantation" stance, it's all a bunch of bullshit. You know it deep down, and I know it after having checked you out for a couple of weeks. Instead of all of these gesticulations, maybe you should just accept that you are still sitting on the Plantation porch. You are comfortable there, so why don't you make peace with it and just accept what, and where you are.
I never really cared what you believe, but eventually you'll realize that you can't lie to yourself forever. The race of the Philosopher doesn't change what he said. There is only one race, and that's human. The amount of melanin in ones skin is irrelevant. The piece of land where you got pushed out of your mothers womb is irrelevant. You make up all of these barriers in your own mind.
And by the way, my lack of a timely response meant that I was sleeping soundly. Nothing scares me, especially not anything you could write. You, however, might make me chuckle a bit.
NOW
THAT
WAS
FUNNY!
Doc. The cognitive dissonance you are obviously experiencing is not unusual during this stage of withdrawal from the mind numbing drugs of Plantation Negro Memes.
When you stumbled upon this site you had no idea your smug self-satisfied worldview would be forever rearranged.
But that's what's happening. Think of the discomfort as growth.
So. We can do this the hard way. Or you can stop arguing and we make this a contest of observable truths.
I say Jesus was a brother, black and handsome like me.
You say Jesus looked "like your Lebanese friend and the Palestinians we see on TV".
I say Arabs didn't arrive in the region until the 7th Centrury AD.
He wasn't Roman. He wasn't Greek.
So the fuck was he DMG?
M.O.T.I. (I can't call you Denmark Vesey anymore since you are doing everything in your power to distance yourself from his people),
There's a bit of foam and spittle on your lip there. You might want to wipe that off.
And again, I say provide evidence for your statements. You see that's the theme of this show. You say something, I of course won't take your word for it. I ask for evidence. You can't provide anything coherent. Instead, you begin to stammer some gibberish, because we both know you are talking out of your ass.
And you are rhyming again.
My stumbling upon this site has wasted countless moments of my time, that unfortunately I won't be able to retrieve. I wish I could say that I was at least somehow enlightened.
DMG
Clear this up for me if you don't mind.
Do you believe Christianity is the white man's religion in general, or as it relates to the religion here in America?
You keep calling it the white man's religion, but you also said Jesus looked like your friends from Palestine.
Are they classified as white?
Or, are you saying because of the way the Bible was organized by white folks, Christianity must be the white man's religion?
I'm trying to figure out how it can be the white man's religion and also be a religion based on a man that both you and DV seem to agree wasn't white.
Unless you classify your friends from Palestine as white.
Thanks.
I feel you Big Man.
But you can't stop there.
The brother keeps saying "I'm not providing facts".
Is it not a fact the Arabs did not enter what the good doctor considers Palestine until 700 years after the time of Jesus?
If the Biblical Jews were not Arabs.
If they were not Romans.
If they were not Greeks.
If Moses escaped with 600,000 of them from the Great Nile Civilization.
If they brought their culture, their language, their religion, and their history WITH THEM from Africa ...
What
else
could
the
"Jews"
have
been?
Big Man,
I don't see what you are getting at. The original players in the Bible could have been green, that wouldn't have affected the religion that swept across Europe (or as you might say home of the white folks), which was the same as the slavers.
I believe I said it was forcibly introduced to my ancestors by European slavers--who happened to be white. Why would this lead you to believe I thought Jesus was a blond haired blue eyed, effeminate appearing man?
Me saying Jesus looked like Palestinians has nothing to do with Christianity. Jesus was from the area where these same Palestinians have lived since that time.
One of the problems here is that you guys are all hot and bothered over trivial classifications.
Americans think in terms of black people and white people, so I can't completely fault your thought process.
MOTI,
If you backed up your claims I wouldn't be getting at you. You don't provide ANY evidence. Why should I take your word on anything? It's not personal. I don't think you'll be happy until you see a "resurrected" Jesus wearing cornrows under a doo-rag.
The point is the present day Ethiopians, and Somali's could look like the Egyptians from that time. But you don't even attempt to provide any backup.
Your arguments are weak.
Jesus' family escapes to Egypt which is on the continent of Africa, "black" people live in Africa, therefore Jesus was black.
Jesus is the center of the Christian religion, therefore, Christianity is a "black" religion. Forcible conversion of African slaves by European slave owners is therefore conversion to their original religion.
You don't see the problem with that logic?
The lynch pin of your argument is the word "black". Everything is cool if we only look at skin color. You completely omit distance, time, and culture. We won't even get into how distantly related people people from the western continent were from those of the eastern horn, near the Sinai peninsula. Your argument comes apart (well really at many points) if we take a look at cultural practices. Provide some evidence.
"What else would they have been"?
This is not a good approach to serious scholarship (I know you aren't interested in anything serious...but bear with me). You make too many assumptions based on geography rather than cultural practices, on generalizations etc.
You try to say that Jesus was greatly influenced by Egyptian culture. Well let's have a look at a few things. I believe your Bible says in Matthew 2:14 that Jesus was taken to Egypt. However, in Matthew 2:19-23 Jesus returns to Nazareth as a young child. Herod the Great died in 4 AD. So are you saying that a toddler-small child is going to completely adopt the culture of a country where he's hiding in a couple of years? Or is it more likely that he would adopt the culture of his parents and culture where he grew up...in Nazareth? There is no record of him for about 2 decades. So you really don't know. You really don't even know what his physical features were as there's no record. You take great leaps, and liberties with history. That's my problem with you.
Doc.
Slow down man.
You are kind of arguing with yourself bra.
You are arguing with your own misinterpretations and presumptions about my argument.
The fact is you have no idea with whom you are speaking. I aint some brother out of First Batist Church in love with a white Jesus I am hoping will save me.
As far as I am concerned, I'm a Christian, a Muslim and a Jew.
There's truth to be found in all great religions.
The Christianity presented to you by the Plantation deserves your scorn.
Your problem is you confuse the Plantation imposter with the actuality of Christ.
In a little while, I'm going to hip you to a scholar, that if you are able to engage with an open mind, will forever change your life.
Soon the absurdity of sucking on live monkey virus juice will not be as difficult for you to see.
You will see Plantation history is as intentionally distorted as this fake "Iranian Uprising" now flickering on your TV.
You see DMG, first they give you a Fake history of Jesus.
And then sit back and watch you "realize" Jesus is not real.
You a smart cat. Don't run 80 yards and fumble. See this thing through.
You know, you are starting to sound like one of those guys who claims he has a "direct line to god", and only YOU have the truth. Everybody else is in on the grand conspiracy. You can't back up any of your claims with evidence, so you try to flip the script, with the "you've been confused" line.
You've proven yourself wrong on all of the other topics, why should this be any different. Come with some live ammunition at least. Your blanks make alot of noise, but don't do any of damage.
Come on, man. I'm not some wide eyed 17 yo, looking for a mentor. Come with it or change the subject.
DMG
I don't care what color Jesus was, that doesn't interest me. I also never said that you thought Jesus was a white man, where did you see me write that?
I said that you keep calling Christianity the "white man's religion" and I asked you to explain why you use that distinction since it wasn't created by white people and the the main people discussed as part of the religion are not white.
Is it because white people have worked the hardest to use the religion to subjugate other groups?
The religion was not created by white people. It was created by a group of Hebrew cats who believed the Messiah promised by Judaism was Jesus. They weren't white.
So, are you using that term as a rhetorical weapon, or do you truly believe that because Europeans worked hard to use Christianity as a tool to enslave an subjugate, then it must be their religion?
I'm interested in the thought process, I don't care about Jesus' color.
DMG
Matter of fact, I actually said that both you and DV think Jesus AIN'T white.
So where you get that idea about a blonde-haired, effeminate white man? I didn't introduce that.
You making assumption about my belief system based on conversations with other cats. The color of Jesus' skin wasn't important to me whene they first hit us with that black power trip in Sunday School, and it's not important now.
My point was about the logic you are using in branding Christianity the "white man's religion." Or the "slavemasters religion."
You appear to have decided that because white folks used something, it must belong to them. That's a little off.
Just 'cause I hang out here and enjoy the ambience does not mean DV and I agree on stuff. Hell, we disagree on a LOT.
I just like most of the cats who hang out here. I like the way their brains work.
I hear you Big Man.
But I gotta say.
Only hear people saying "it's not important what color Jesus was" the more apparent it becomes he was black.
Denying African people their historical, cultural and religious legacy by disconnecting us with our past is a TOOL of the Plantation.
If it doesn't matter what color Jesus was why are people so uncomfortable depicting him as black?
Because it's revolutionary. It changes things.
Not long after cats realize Jesus was a brother and that World History is Their History ... they start changing their diets and reconsider what they allow the Plantation to inject into their blood streams.
Feelings aren't tangible but you believe in them.
Big Man,
"I said that you keep calling Christianity the "white man's religion"
I say that only in context to this argument and it's introduction to slaves brought from Africa. Otherwise I believe religion isn't "owned" by anyone but the individual believer.
And my point is that Jesus could have been a Green woman with blue stripes. The philosophy doesn't change, I still think he was a great man. Ethnicity doesn't matter.
Everybody wants to claim ownership to the worlds great traditions. Almost every white person I've EVER met in the United States will claim the Cherokee nation as part of their lineage. Why Cherokee you ask? One of the few (if not only) Native American peoples with a written language. It's a twofer: ownership of the land (does away with that pesky claim of genocide for property), and relation to the "smart" savages. I see something similar going on here.
If you adopted worship of Thor and Loki, that's your own personal thing Big Man.
MOTI thinks I'm getting on him because he believes in Christ. I'm merely pointing out the weakness in his Plantation Theory. He's clearly still sitting on the porch and doesn't know it. I will say he should try out for the next Olympics because his gymnastics floor show is sick! Underage Chinese girls got nothing on him!
i don't think dmg knows he is losing this thing. i don't know about Jesus being BLACK. but 70 hebrews arrived in egypt with nothing. 500 years later 600,000 Jews leave to the Holy Land with a religion. how can that not be an Egyptian religion? how can Judaism not be African in origin? but DV has Jesus walking like Denzel Washington and african slaves showing up in america already singing swing low sweet chariot.
DMG
Thanks for clarifying on your comments. I've seen you use that phrase on several posts when engaging with DV, and I wanted clarification. I appreciate you addressing my questions.
Denmark Vesey
I feel you about when Christ's color becomes important or unimportant.
If I had ever believed that Jesus was a random white dude with blue eyes and blonde hair, I could see how that might have messed with my self esteem or something. I have no problem with you or anyone else depicting him as black, I understand the need to counteract those other messages. My point was simply it's not a big deal to me, at least not anymore. I figured there was no way most of these folks knew anything about what Jesus looked like, all the pictures were just guesses that said more about the folks making them then about Christ.
I'm thinking about "Now how can I get like him?"
I respect what you're doing with the Jesus color thing, but that wasn't my reason for getting into this discussion. I just needed clarification from DMG on why he kept using this "white man's religion" thing, and he provided that.
Carry on.
DMG
Also, I'm not sure DV "believes" in Christ the way you mean.
If I remember correctly, DV has rejected the resurrection, the virgin birth and the idea that Jesus was God.
I think he just likes the cat's swagger.
You a sharp cat Big Man.
What's more evidence of Godliness than swagger?
Nah, Anon,
I don't think I'm losing. MOTI has constructed an entire history without any written, physical, or oral evidence to back up any of his claims, and he likes it that way. Nobody can challenge such fiction, as they will be dismissed as having been lead astray by some grand conspiracy, only the likes of MOTI and crew are enlightened, and exhibit exaggerated self-importance. No different than 5 percenters. No different than WD Fard. No different than alot of odd sounding groups. The pattern is clear.
Europeans also tried to claim Jesus, and the Nordic blond, blue eyed savior persists until this day, and strangely graced the kitchen walls of many a long suffering "Big Mama" in popular culture.
Everybody wants to claim the winner as their own. It's as simple as that. I don't see what MOTI is doing as much different than the so-called "Aryans" claim that he was snow-white. But MOTI is doing it for self-serving reasons, as his religion, which he's unwilling to shake, conflicts with his Plantation story and his concept of "blackness" doesn't work unless his god is also black. (How can I be off the plantation if I worship the same god as the descendants of those who had us in chains?) I don't think there's anything wrong with being Christian. The black church in the United States produced MLK Jr. and many others. Was at the forefront of Civil Rights, and is the foundation of many black communities today.
Someone who must trumpet his blackness so loudly and often, very likely is dealing with deep seeded issues of living in his own skin. He must turn the great men he worships into icons that fit his fictional narrative, whether they were "black" or not...maybe Jesus' teachings wouldn't be as sweet to MOTI's ears had he been Chinese.
I don't have to talk about my "blackness". I don't need to tell people they are living on some fictional plantation in their mind as a catharsis for my own inadequacy. I offer my opinion, provide evidence for my statements, talk about consequences and allow you to weigh the evidence. I don't need to rhyme.
It is my opinion, that MOTI is afraid of things in which he has no understanding, and is probably too proud to admit it. Thus he rails against vaccines, and other things foreign. He rails against people who are educated, because he can't stand on their same level and go toe to toe. He puts conjecture, street knowledge, and rumor on the same level as scientific method, formal education, and evidence. He gets the mob to chant and scoff at the latter group saying that we are "lost" and don't know the "real" story. He plays on the ignorance and fear of the masses, and uses single instances of past malfeasance--out of millions of examples of ethical behavior--as his "proof" of conspiracy.
Indeed the truth will set you free. I know who I am, there's no reason for me to create a fictional narrative. And as you have seen, I back up my statements rather than provide a nice dance. But perhaps, MOTI likes swagger more than substance.
Jesus did not comport himself in an arrogant or superciliously pompous manner, nor did he walk with an air of overbearing self-confidence (hint...this is a definition).
DMG
Well said. You and DV have an interesting back and forth. I hope you hang around.
Post a Comment