In the New World Order, Somalia is characterized as a deviant society, especially by Western countries. This characterization is magnified by focusing upon armed conflicts among different groups in Somalia and is marked by a neglect of global forces and history, including indigenous perspectives. The benchmark for judging the nature and scale of such crises is the condition of statelessness, measured by the absence of a central political authority and the modern claim of an ostensible universal rule of law. However, the attempted replacement of sacred places and kinship identities of indigenous peoples with the identity of the New World Order that emphasizes self-interested and self-maximizing individuals, i.e., Western individualism, has led not to a melting pot, but a boiling pot. The Somalis, as with many other ethnic and indigenous groups throughout the world, do not find a meaningful sense of life by being defined as modern individuals via the state. Any viable alternative to disentangling Somalia and similar indigenous peoples from current and future crises might benefit from recognition and accomodation to their traditional ways of life and systems of governance. Moreover, future work should include explications of the impact of global hegemony, the increasing role of the United Nations in advancing foreign policy,
military interventions under the facade of peacekeeping, and the acceleration of a market economy ostensibly directed by global forces such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.
POINT OF THE WEEK--Since 2000, commercial ships have illegally fished in Somali waters and dumped nuclear waste materials and urban refuse from EU countries (in particular European based Mafiosi companies that have a long history of illegal dumping of radioactive and waste materials) with impunity. By some accounts, Somalia’s rare corral ecosystem has been damaged beyond repair, thus risking the loss of fish and marine resources for good. This is a fact that both Western countries, their one-track minded journalists and the United Nations Organization are well aware of, yet chose to remain silent and oblivious to the complaints registered by Somalis -
Anonymous (cat needs a name)
In the New World Order, Somalia is characterized as a deviant society, especially by Western countries. This characterization is magnified by focusing upon armed conflicts among different groups in Somalia and is marked by a neglect of global forces and history, including indigenous perspectives. The benchmark for judging the nature and scale of such crises is the condition of statelessness, measured by the absence of a central political authority and the modern claim of an ostensible universal rule of law. However, the attempted replacement of sacred places and kinship identities of indigenous peoples with the identity of the New World Order that emphasizes self-interested and self-maximizing individuals, i.e., Western individualism, has led not to a melting pot, but a boiling pot. The Somalis, as with many other ethnic and indigenous groups throughout the world, do not find a meaningful sense of life by being defined as modern individuals via the state. Any viable alternative to disentangling Somalia and similar indigenous peoples from current and future crises might benefit from recognition and accomodation to their traditional ways of life and systems of governance. Moreover, future work should include explications of the impact of global hegemony, the increasing role of the United Nations in advancing foreign policy, military interventions under the facade of peacekeeping, and the acceleration of a market economy ostensibly directed by global forces such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.
74 comments:
Does "accomodation to their traditional ways of life" mean the toleration of kidnapping and the paying of multi-million dollar ransoms?
If Somali entrepreneurs choose to disavow "the rule of law"... if they instead wanna go gun-to-gun with the U.S. military... they best protect they necks.
And if you, DV, don't mind Somali criminals pissing on "the rule of law"... can you make a moral claim upon nation-states to play by any rules at all?
"don't mind Somali criminals pissing on "the rule of law"
Must truly be undercover for a black man to still be making this tired ass argument.
Is it so hard to conceive that the rule of law could be so onerous to a people as to make adherence to that law more reprehensible than righteous uprising against it? Or do you still consider Rosa Parks and the other civil rights advocates who clashed with the law of the land to be "criminals" who disavowed the rule of law.
How would you react to someone dumping dangerous chemicals all over your food backyard and your food supply, if the "rule of law" ultimately proved incapable or unwilling to offer you any protection? Probably just stay undercover.
DV, I know it doesn't happen often, but I am in total agreement with you on this one, bro.
Don't think I've ever seen anyone make a straight-faced argument in favor of kidnapping for ransom.
Setting aside the question of ethics... can someone make the case that hostage-taking on the high seas is an effective mode of political action?
No surprise here, the Imperial Obama proposes a solution w/o addressing the grievances of those forced into action.
--Since 2000, commercial ships have illegally fished in Somali waters and dumped nuclear waste materials and urban refuse from EU countries (in particular European based Mafiosi companies that have a long history of illegal dumping of radioactive and waste materials) with impunity. By some accounts, Somalia’s rare corral ecosystem has been damaged beyond repair, thus risking the loss of fish and marine resources for good. This is a fact that both Western countries, their one-track minded journalists and the United Nations Organization are well aware of, yet chose to remain silent and oblivious to the complaints registered by Somalis
Piracy is not that uncommon in societies where the national state is either weak or non-existent. For example, during the revolutionary war of America, George Washington and the founding fathers strategically commissioned pirates to protect the nation’s waters. For that America of 1776, involved in a bitter war with a disproportionately more powerful Britain, there was no other way for George Washington and the revolutionary leadership to protect the territorial waters of the nation. Despite that Britain dismissed the commissioned pirates as banditry and criminals, Americans in general viewed their pirate militia as volunteer sons and daughters responding to a call for a higher purpose.
When observed closely, it appears a parallel reality is taking place in Somalia. Regional governments are implicitly supporting the piracy in the Indian Ocean; some of the ransoms so far paid, as much as $150 million by some estimates, is trickling down to the region’s mainland residents and authorities. In return, the militia who is conducting the piracy are getting protection and are being welcomed by their communities. How else can one explain that a disorganized pirate group can successfully abduct a tanker like the Sirus Star carrying crude oil worth of over $100 million or a first class ship carrying Russian-made T72 tanks?
The Somalia piracy is part and parcel of the larger crisis resulting from the failed Somali state and the negligent and hands-off attitude of the world community. Neither a band aid approach, like the one suggested by the Virginia millionaire, Ballarin, nor organizing more aggressive military actions, like the proposed naval blockade touted by the current Newsweek article, could be a solution to the Somalia piracy crisis. As a matter of fact Newsweek’s suggestion of military blockade would prove to be more disruptive to this key transit corridor.
WardheerNews believes that the real solution lays on-shore. Short of reinstating the Somali nation state would successfully solve either the piracy problem at hand or larger terrorist activities which lately became a main stay in Somalia. The world community must articulate a comprehensive strategy to stop the piracy in Somalia without further violating the territorial integrity of Somalia.-- WardheerNews Editorial Board
Dude, if you've heard straight faced arguments for slavery ( and I know you have) then why is rational hostage taking beyond the pale? But I will humor you. Here is the very first, top of my head, straight faced argument.
It simply is a matter of using whatever leverage you have. If a multi billion dollar company is crapping on you and there is no place to sue them, then the only option left is a hold up.
Little minds make it seem like asking for a million from a billionaire is excessive behavior, ignoring all the while the predations of the wealthy one.
As to "effectiveness", how many heretofore unconscious Americans (black and white) are now being enlightened as to the state of affairs in Somalia, and the apparent complicity of wealthy European and American interests in the subversion of this African nation. Black Hawk Down certainly didn't give us any insight into the Somali condition. I won't say this was their intended effect, but opening the world's eyes to this situation is likely the best thing they could be doing under the circumstances. The evils being perpetrated on the Somali people flourish best in the darkness.
I think to focus exclusively or even primarily on Somali pirates is to miss the greater issue. Look at a map of the Indian Ocean. This is the stage for global growth and intrigue in the next century. Piracy is an endemic problem which is only now being used to justify the United States' positioning of its blue water nuclear navy.
Somalia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan happen to occupy the role that German electorates of the Hapsburg empire did in the conflict between Seventeenth century France and Spain.
With the national leaders of both Japan and Australia reaffirming their commitment to the Anglo-American Establishment, the Pacific is as secure as it can ever be. The same, however, can't be said for the Indian Ocean.
Although China has promised a "peaceful rise" to great power status, the Indian Ocean region is suffused with political, religious, and economic combustions. With a great power arrangement on the level of NATO and the USSR in Western Europe and the US and China in Southeast Asia yet to be worked out, the Somalis provide good narrative cover for some necessary moves.
The military murder of Somali "fish in a barrel" tethered ~ 50 ft away from the Bainbridge get's the professional storytelling treatment in the Washington Post Style Section:
A Sniper's Precision View to A KillThe three quick shots off the fantail of the USS Bainbridge that terminated the piracy incident in the Indian Ocean early Sunday night made a number of points for various pointy-headed political pundits to chew on, cudlike, for a few weeks. But one they'll probably miss is the following: The three shots make clear to a wider public what has been clear to people who pay attention to such things -- we are in the golden age of the sniper.
He has become a kind of chivalric hero. He is the state, speaking in thunder, restoring order to the moral universe. Or he is civilization, informing the barbarians of the fecklessness of their plight. He is the line in the sand, the point of the spear, the man with the rifle, one of the few, the proud. He is also the intellectual of combat, in some ways, bringing a cool logic to what is normally hot, messy and exhausting.
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We vest in him the right to kill in our name and it seems, at least to some extent, we no longer hold it against him that he does so from a long way out, usually in darkness and silence. Instead, we wish him godspeed. He's no longer Lee Harvey Oswald. He's Carlos Hatchcock, the legendary Marine Corps sniper, or Chuck Mawhinney, who holds the Marine Corps sniper kill record in Vietnam, or the two posthumous Battle of Mogadishu Medal of Honor recipients, the Delta snipers Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon. And now, he is the Navy SEALs who shot the Somali pirates and saved Capt. Richard Phillips.
Technology and necessity have combined to make the sniper the go-to guy in military operations, even given him a kind of glamour.
Professional storytellers;
1. Conceal the strategy and the political and economic objectives
2. Render heroic what was in fact a simple act of technology enabled industrial butchery conducted in the dark and at a range of 50ft
3. Sex up the technology and accoutrements of death-dealing
4. Obscure the human dimension of what happened
5. Suppress and kill the conscience of anyone looking to understand all sides of what happened
It seems that the storyteller is not a mere technical pawn in the propaganda game, rather, he is an intentional and complicit Khas-namous - or spiritual vacuum - himself already dead and lacking any semblance of conscience - and willfully infecting others with his undead condition for 32 pieces of silver...,
Have the pirates ever made a political statement about the dumping?
Yes, something funky is going on but that doesn't make them freedom fighters.
There have been pirates in those waters for a hundred years. Long before toxic waste. It's a good hustle. But when he took an American hostage Obama had to step up. If they didn't want they caps peeled back they should not have played the game.
The answer is YES! Moreover, They haven't harmed a single hostage. Now, all of that changes thanks to murder inc. and its systematic disruption of law and order in Somalia.There's an interesting subtext to the pirate story that hasn't appeared in the western media. According to Simon Assaf:
"Many European, US and Asian shipping firms – notably Switzerland's Achair Partners and Italy's Progresso – signed dumping deals in the early 1990s with Somalia's politicians and militia leaders. This meant they could use the coast as a toxic dumping ground. This practice became widespread as the country descended into civil war.
Nick Nuttall of the UN Environment Programme said, "European companies found it was very cheap to get rid of the waste."
When the Asian tsunami of Christmas 2005 washed ashore on the east coast of Africa, it uncovered a great scandal. Tons of radioactive waste and toxic chemicals drifted onto the beaches after the giant wave dislodged them from the sea bed off Somalia. Tens of thousands of Somalis fell ill after coming into contact with this cocktail. They complained to the United Nations (UN), which began an investigation.
"There are reports from villagers of a wide range of medical problems such as mouth bleeds, abdominal hemorrhages, unusual skin disorders and breathing difficulties," the UN noted.
Some 300 people are believed to have died from the poisonous chemicals.
In 2006 Somali fishermen complained to the UN that foreign fishing fleets were using the breakdown of the state to plunder their fish stocks. These foreign fleets often recruited Somali militias to intimidate local fishermen. Despite repeated requests, the UN refused to act. Meanwhile the warships of global powers that patrol the strategically important Gulf of Aden did not sink or seize any vessels dumping toxic chemicals off the coast.
So angry Somalis, whose waters were being poisoned and whose livelihoods were threatened, took matters into their own hands. Fishermen began to arm themselves and attempted to act as unofficial coastguards." (Socialist Worker)
The origins of piracy in Somalia is considerably different than the narrative in the media which tends to perpetuate stereotypes of scary black men who are naturally inclined to criminal behavior. In reality, the pirates were the victims of a US-EU run system that still uses the developing world as a dumping ground for toxic waste regardless of the suffering it causes. (just ask Lawrence Summers) In fact, the dumping continues to this day, even though we have been assured that we're living in a "post racial era" following the election of Barak Obama. Unfortunately, that rule doesn't apply to the many black and brown people who still find themselves caught in the imperial crosshairs. Their lives are just as miserable as ever.
The storytellers are some low down slimy worms indeed. Pirate Hunters USN coming soon to SpikeTV:
"Let's face it . . . it's a win-win for everyone. It's one thing to say we're going into Iraq, and killing women and children sometimes, unfortunately.
But with pirates it's a clear black-and-white thing. They're the bad guys."
But for Spike's new show, the weekend's pirate drama is all good, Friedman said.
"I don't want to sound like a ghoul, but it could not have been better to us," he said.
"It certainly brings the pirate problem in front of the world in a manner that was wonderful for us. The pirates got whacked and an American hero is saved by the Navy. . . . I think it makes the show a little more front-and-center."
So some criminals that run the country sold out the nation and did a deal to take the toxic product. And naturally, the citizens suffer.
So what do we do about a criminal government in Somalia? Do we send in troops to overthrow them? Do we let it be because that's the government in control and just kick their ass when they step out of line (at least in relation to us) and otherwise let the people suffer?
These are big boy questions that go beyond simple racial solidarity. Because neither of those options appeal to me as a American or a black nationalist.
" Don't think I've ever seen anyone make a straight-faced argument in favor of kidnapping for ransom.
Setting aside the question of ethics... can someone make the case that hostage-taking on the high seas is an effective mode of political action?" Undercover Black Man
Ever heard of bail?
Rockefeller drug laws have put millions of people, with essentially medical problems, in jail and held them for ransom.
$500, $1K, $10K, $500K, $1M ransoms are routine in this country. The kidnappers are typically suit wearing nerds who didn't get any pussy in high school and now call themselves "Prosecutors".
Mills, I submit they are simply modern day pirates who make a living hijacking other pirates.
BTW. Try to sail a boat with $100 Million in oil along the coast of China or through the Gulf of Mexico, and see if your ass is not ... "taken for hostage and held for ransom".
"As to "effectiveness", how many heretofore unconscious Americans (black and white) are now being enlightened as to the state of affairs in Somalia, and the apparent complicity of wealthy European and American interests in the subversion of this African nation. Black Hawk Down certainly didn't give us any insight into the Somali condition. I won't say this was their intended effect, but opening the world's eyes to this situation is likely the best thing they could be doing under the circumstances. The evils being perpetrated on the Somali people flourish best in the darkness." Exodus
British style "Here! Here!"
^ Actually, it's "Hear! Hear!"
^ Actually, it's "Hear! Hear!" UBM
I thought so man.
Asked this motherfucker having coffee next to me and he said ... "here here".
Probably gave me the wrong answer, cuz I'm black. (Right Fisher?)
Thanks
What's satisfying about the hostage rescue, to a moral mind, is that it strikes a blow for common sense.
Don't start none... won't be none.
The muddled moral thinking of hard-leftists and "black partisans" -- always rooting against the American state, always excusing black/brown criminality -- is the way to chaos.
Meanwhile, if someone tried to jack Craig Nulan's shit, I assume he would go for the head shot first and inquire as to the poor lad's motivations afterward.
I likewise assume that when it comes to moral instruction, DV doesn't teach his children that it's sometimes okay to steal.
"signed dumping deals in the early 1990s with Somalia's politicians and militia leaders. This meant they could use the coast as a toxic dumping ground"
And you think our leaders suck...Africans have been selling themselves out to the highest bidders since slavery days. No one to blame but themselves for this.
What's satisfying about the hostage rescue, to a moral mind,rotflmbao....,
two-fingered sniper porn for a horny fanboy.
I actually prefer kneecap, elbow, or gut shots.
All three are excruciatingly painful but none necessarily fatal - thence morally proportional.
And you think our leaders suck...Africans have been selling themselves out to the highest bidders since slavery days. No one to blame but themselves for this.The islamic courts union - which had Somalia fairly well stabilized until the U.S. invaded via Ethiopian proxy - not only established a fair degree of justice and stability, but had also suppressed piracy.
There's plenty enough blame to go around, but the Somalis should not be the object of that blame.
Here!!! Here!!!
Teach Denmark Vesey!!!
Actually Mills I teach them that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
One man's kidnapper is another man's customs agent.
I teach them that the pen is mightier than the sword.
I teach them that he who controls the printing press can make corporate conglomerates of oil rich bankers and toxic polluters off the coast of Africa who shoot African men in the head while intentionally destabilizing the horn of Africa and driving millions of people to the edge of starvation appear to be heroes.
I teach them that the media can use words to make Plantation Negros in Burbank give white boys High Fives and shout in glee in their eagerness to side with whomever appears to have power in that moment.
^ An interesting conversation for us to have... while we both reap the benefits of the prosperity, the order and the personal freedoms ensured by American power.
The three Somali Pirate/Terrorist/Criminals murdered on Easter were all just teenagers aged 17-19....,
But like the Spike teevee pornster said; "Let's face it . . . it's a win-win for everyone. It's one thing to say we're going into Iraq, and killing women and children sometimes, unfortunately.
But with pirates it's a clear black-and-white thing. They're the bad guys."
Oh, and of course the were Muslim teenagers to boot....,
God's son indeed.
I actually prefer kneecap, elbow, or gut shots.
Aim for the elbows! Hee-hee... you on some different shit, Craig. I love you, though.
The three Somali Pirate/Terrorist/Criminals murdered on Easter were all just teenagers aged 17-19....,
Damn. I guess they had no business being out there with Kalashnikovs, right?
I blame the parents.
"Dont' start none...won't be none."
Dude while you are at it, why don't you tell us which came first, the chicken or the egg.
So you set yourself up as knowing who supposedly "started" all this shit? Naw, you wouldn't, you couldn't think we would go for that. I think that's just your personal philosophy.
Mills, I am a straight up killer. Unlike CNu, I've satisfied all moral compunction once the decision is made to lay hands my on you. Step to mine and die. I only have two speeds, off and on, so when it's on it's on, then it's over. Leave no enemy alive behind me.
That's a PERSONAL philosophy. It works just fine in my little world because the at the core of my philosophy is a determination to go to the extreme length to never get in any kind of altercation. Bend over backwards to avoid making enemies. One person, exercising self control.
You can't equate that with the political, military, and economic policy of a country. There is no such thing as personal responsibility in that regard. The sniper is relieved of personal responsibility because he is just following orders. And so on up the chain to the final authority, who is conveniently relieved of personal responsibility because of his obligation to represent and protect all the people.
It's not about rooting against the American side, it's about giving a voice to the simple truths that the victor always seems to leave out of "his"tory. It's about pointing out wrong, without pandering to interests that may be providing me with a good life, but still will never own my soul.
So before you read this as support for the actions of the Somalians, let me clarify. I understand the piracy as a reaction, even as I understand that piracy can not be successful as a stand alone tactic. They are not going to win a shooting war with anyone, so these basically amount to suicide missions (at least in the long run, now that everybody is send warships). Current policy appears only interested in assisting this suicide, with the end goal of acquiring the remains. The new face of imperialism is not much different from the old face. Just now it appears to be in black face. I wouldn't appreciate this action if Bush had done it, and I appreciate it even less from someone I KNOW, knows better.
Aim?!?!
What kind of coward shoots pre-emptively at a distance on someone just trying to jack?
What I'm on is punitive.
It's what you get close-in, gratuitously, and personally for even thinking about jacking my shit. (:
Just now it appears to be in black face. I wouldn't appreciate this action if Bush had done it, and I appreciate it even less from someone I KNOW, knows better.THIS is the godawful essence of the thing...., and it's only going to get worse from here forward. Central casting was devilish as hell in making Obama the lead in the next few rounds of the Great Game.
That's a PERSONAL philosophy. ...
You can't equate that with the political, military, and economic policy of a country.
Actually, I believe you can, Exodus Mentality. Where else does statecraft come from except personal philosophies?
And just as you feel a profound duty to defend your family, so should a state act on its profound duty to defend its citizens.
If the warlords in Somali wanna gangsta... well, let the bodies fall where they may.
If the warlords in Somali wanna do politics, they need to do a lot better than hostage-taking.
f'real....,
They better get up on a nuclear weapon or several like the Islamic Republics of Pakistan and Iran.
Otherwise they're just barrel-fish at the cruel mercy of Obamamandius...,
OK, realistically, maybe they should just talibanize and get with the global islamic resistance which happens to include a pair of nuclear states.
Undercover Black Man said...
^ An interesting conversation for us to have... while we both reap the benefits of the prosperity, the order and the personal freedoms ensured by American power"
That's a fair point Mills.
Shallow, and short sighted. But fair.
I submit the sniping of the Somali teenagers was not an exercise in "American" power, but an exercise in globalist corporate power.
How did David Mills benefit from that killing?
Do you share an interest in the cargo of that ship?
Was the ship even an American ship? Was the crew American?
Your American tax dollars are being used to outfit a mercenary army deployed to protect the financial interests of globalists bankers and a financial elite who don't give a shit about America or Americans.
They figure if they feed you an occasional military / football success story or tweak the virility shoot em up fantasies of millions of obese hamburger eating Americans they can get away with ... well, murder.
How did David Mills benefit from that killing?
I benefit from the world being more orderly and less chaotic. Thus, I benefit whenever hostage-taking is thwarted as opposed to appeased.
DV
"I submit the sniping of the Somali teenagers was not an exercise in "American" power, but an exercise in globalist corporate power."
Interesting as up to that point corporations from around the globe payed out some $100MM in jack u cheddar since the 1990's.
Is that power?!... So what changed? ... These brothers made a calculated mistake ... Selected the wrong shell(U.S. ship)in which the ball was actually under. During the worst time in which a new potus needed to prove himself. Then decided to continue what they knew best ... Extort! Wrong chess move.
Now the second question is if you and your seeds were held up in the local Shop Rite by some under priveleged 17yo, who lived near a landfill, who held a glock to your seeds head while your in cuffs. Would you tell the man with the badge and a laser guided .50 caliber to leave you be??
stoopid storyteller strategery done backfired already....,
Somali pirates captured four ships and took more than 60 crew members hostage in a brazen hijacking spree, while the American captain freed from their grip planned to reunite with his crew and fly home Wednesday to the United States.
Pirates have vowed revenge for the deaths of three colleagues at the hands of U.S. snipers rescuing Capt. Richard Phillips, as well as for two others slain by French forces in a separate rescue last week.
"Our latest hijackings were meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land," Omar Dahir Idle, a pirate based in the coastal town of Harardhere, told The Associated Press by telephone. "The recent American operation, French navy attack on our colleagues or any other operation mean nothing to us."
The top U.S. military officer said Tuesday he takes such comments seriously.
Now the second question is if you and your seeds were held up in the local Shop Rite by some under priveleged 17yo, who lived near a landfill, who held a glock to your seeds head while your in cuffs. Would you tell the man with the badge and a laser guided .50 caliber to leave you be???!?!?!?!
nobody uses a laser to sight a .50 cal. There's no ballistic drift with those puppies for close to a mile so you can sit waaaaaay outside the other guy's range.
Why on earth would you ever even consider giving away your position by turning on a frikkin laser?
Duh!!!!
As for the continuing conflation of personal and political tactics and morality, haven't ANY OF YOU KNEEGROWS ever read Machiavelli?
Dayyum....,
The conduct of affairs of state should be considered entirely separate from the conduct of personal affairs.
Here you go, at the right price.....,
DV
"Your American tax dollars are being used to outfit a mercenary army deployed to protect the financial interests of globalists bankers and a financial elite who don't give a shit about America or Americans."
BTW..
The 508-foot-long container ship. Once it was loaded with humanitarian aid supplies and other cargo, he charted a course to the Kenyan port of Mombasa.
The conduct of affairs of state should be considered entirely separate from the conduct of personal affairs.
So what you're saying, Craig, is: You would never, ever play the bitch role... but you expect your country to?
If an impoverished teenaged Somali tried to jack your shit, you'd shoot him in the gut. But you want your country to smile and pay?
Silly on its face.
While the idea of a laser-guided bullet conjures images of soldiers marching across fields, spraying ammo that never misses, the report mentions that the technology is intended to be used by Special Forces and Army Sniper Teams. So, boiled down, we're talking a bullet that's going to be fired at long range by a sniper and be able to adjust its trajectory mid-flight, as to have a better chance of hitting the target. Sounds like the military just doesn't want to train their snipers
Machiavelli: "[I]t wilt not be difficult for a wise prince to keep the minds of his citizens steadfast from first to last, when he does not fail to support and defend them."
You lose again, Craig.
I never lose slowpoke. You should know better by now than to even try to play me. But then, the passengers on the little bus aren't renowned for their intelectual prowess, are they?
Here's what I asserted two days ago at Bookerrising; (it's prescience is being demonstrated even as you chuckle into your halo and bit David)
Proposed solution: It would be a lot cheaper for the US if President Obama ordered the European nations and firms that have illegally dumped waste and illegally fished in these waters to make restitution — and strictly forbade them from such future operations until such time as a sovereign and stabilized Somalian government was capable of maintaining the integrity of its own waters.
Neocon sycophants are so easily duped into believing stories that are incoherent and absurd. Some stupid and bloodthirsty cheerleaders actually believe that Somalis just recently decided to start jacking ships for no particular reason at all — save for making a little loot.
As with every hyper-partisan thing else, a review of the recent history will prove illuminating.
^ The only flaw with your "solution" is that Barack Obama is not the president of Europe, nor is he the leader of Somalia. He was elected to protect and defend the United States of America.
He doesn't have to be the president of the EU slowmo..., all he has to do is suggest slashing NATO related expenditures by say..., 40% and I'd be willing to bet he'd get prompt and uncomplaining compliance from the EU's NATO member states.
Which states include the two implicated in the inhuman and immoral waste dumping.
He protects and defends the U.S., he saves money on wasteful expenditures, and he doesn't further radicalize our already beleaguered somalian bredren any further.
But then, he could just do the stoopid thing that you diseased and immoral turnips need in order to feel better about yourselves, much like his retarded predecessor did....,
Cnulan
"It would be a lot cheaper for the US if President Obama ordered the European nations and firms that have illegally dumped waste and illegally fished in these waters to make restitution"
Are you suggesting that this is/was the genesis of their jacking prowess??
This sequel to Pirates of the Caribbean has been documented in these shipping lanes since the 1920's. Not sure nuclear waste existed then.
The resolution to this problem is the creation of a grass roots stable freaking government!
Well that too Cap, but I believe the problem of the U.S. demolishing the Islamic Courts Union which had established governance of Somalia and curbed "piracy" was addressed upthread.
See, Dubya backed an invasion of Somalia by Ethiopian proxy and smashed the ICU because of its pre-emptive cowardice with regards to all things Islamic.
Fear, racism, and ignorance will definitely make a people and its leadership stupid...,
10th post down from the top of this thread Cap.
kick ass cnulan kick ass
Undercover Black Man said...
^ The only flaw with your "solution" is that Barack Obama is not the president of Europe, nor is he the leader of Somalia. He was elected to protect and defend the United States of America.
And shooting Africans aboard a Danish owned ship off the coast of Africa "protects" the United States of America... how?
And shooting Africans aboard a Danish owned ship off the coast of Africa "protects" the United States of America... how?
By discouraging the taking of U.S. citizens as hostages.
"Now the second question is if you and your seeds were held up in the local Shop Rite by some under priveleged 17yo, who lived near a landfill, who held a glock to your seeds head while your in cuffs. Would you tell the man with the badge and a laser guided .50 caliber to leave you be??" Casper
Actually Casper,
If I had dumped toxic waste around that 17yo's home, intentionally destabilized his government, bombed his family and destroyed his economy ... I wouldn't be in a Rite Aid near his home.
DV
"If I had dumped toxic waste around that 17yo's home, intentionally destabilized his government, bombed his family and destroyed his economy ... I wouldn't be in a Rite Aid near his home."
So let's assume you didn't personally do the dumping (like the captain)nor your country? Then what is your response??
Let's make the analogy fit even better. If I knew about the dumping, had the power to try to curtail it, and did nothing. At this point the honorable thing for me to do is acknowledge my fault in the situation and try to make a restitution that both saves the lives of mine and recognizes the humanity of theirs. How about Good faith negotiation that recognizes the foundational problems that lead to the Somali actions, Casper.
Not hardfisted, give us back our shit, and stand trial or get dusted.
Like I told the Field negro Crowd, also over there gloating over our stick wagging win, these cats are on suicide missions and they know it. It isn't about the money for them. Do those look like multi-millionaires on those boats with those ancient ass weapons?
Is it completely beyond the pale that there could be a solution other than "kill them all and let god sort them out".
I swear that cowboy culture got into some of y'all deep.
... these cats are on suicide missions and they know it.
Mission accomplished. What's the problem?
these cats are on suicide missions and they know it
Mission accomplished. What's the problem?Waste of ammo...
While it is already understood that the neocons want to protect the goods, is it rational to deploy the whole fleet to the area?
"Asked this motherfucker having coffee next to me and he said ... "here here"."
Haha. That's funny, DV. Bully good show, man! Bully!
"Is it completely beyond the pale that there could be a solution other than "kill them all and let god sort them out".
I swear that cowboy culture got into some of y'all deep." Exodus
Ex ....
Ex ....
You peepin' these cats hol' card.
The thigh slapping, "dey got wut dey deserved", "take em out" peanut gallery is obviously motivated by something other than - "National Security". (Plantation Security)
I understand it coming from white boys celebrating the killing of nameless Africans or Israeli fanatics touting the murder of Palestinians whom they consider sub-human.
But brothers ... brothers ... black men ... siding with the principalities, with the powers, with the rulers of darkness of this world, with spiritual wickedness in high places ... is ... is ... telling than a muhfuggah!
EM
"How about Good faith negotiation that recognizes the foundational problems that lead to the Somali actions, Casper"
I would agree if the facts supported this claim. But reading history. The don't. Thus we are left with this being an excuse to justify jacking. If the pirates were israeli would you have a different POV??
But brothers ... brothers ... black men ... siding with the principalities, with the powers, with the rulers of darkness of this world, with spiritual wickedness in high places ... is ... is ... telling than a muhfuggah!
Meanwhile, people in Zimbabwe are eating grass to keep from starving, under the heel of a black tyrant, and DV ain't got shit to say.
The thigh slapping, "dey got wut dey deserved", "take em out" peanut gallery is obviously motivated by something other than - "National Security".
Any different than the don't-fucks-wit-mine materialist gun-crazy ethos of hip-hop? Just asking.
DV
But brothers ... brothers ... black men ... siding with the principalities, with the powers, with the rulers of darkness of this world, with spiritual wickedness in high places ... is ... is ... telling than a muhfuggah!
Who has directly killed more Somalian Africans over the last 30 years.. Africans or non-Africans??
Me thinks thats more telling than a muther!
"Meanwhile, people in Zimbabwe are eating grass to keep from starving, under the heel of a black tyrant, and DV ain't got shit to say." UBM
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe you right Mills.
People in Zimbabwe are starving because of the 80 year old president who fought the British colonists when the country was named RHODESIA (imagine a European nation named Nkrumah) , and 1% of the population owned 2/3 of the most valuable land and controlled 100% of the natural resources.
You right David. WE KNOW the people of Zimbabwe are not starving because of the economic stranglehold and punitive foreign currency manipulations of the former colonists. And we know the corporate media in this country is telling us BOTH SIDES of that story fair and square! We know the NWO has nooooo problem with a resource rich free African sovereignty. They've proved their good will time after time.
"Dem Whyte Bwitish Fowks Aint Dat Mean! Dey Wood Neva Do Nuttin Like Dat To Dem Dumb Nahstay Afwicans! Dem Afwicans murderous savages anyway! Aynt Mugabe uh Kanibull?!"
^ Well... they wanted the dirt, they got the dirt. And they chased out the only people who seem to know how to grow enough wheat and corn from that dirt to make the nation a major food exporter.
Now they eat grass.
Yeah, black folks the world over can take great pride in the fact that black Zimbabweans now own the dirt.
the only people who seem to know how toeconomically strangle and manipulate a currency to the point of collapse in order to punish a farming sector already hard hit by several droughts, ill-considered redistribution policy, and the punitive witholding of necessary agricultural inputs (unsustainable oil intensive agriculture)
"^ Well... they wanted the dirt, they got the dirt. And they chased out the only people who seem to know how to grow enough wheat and corn from that dirt to make the nation a major food exporter." UBM
Come on Dave. Stop playing man. Is there a racist myth you don't buy into hook line and sinker. David Duke don't even pop the shit you talking.
If the Chinese stop buying US debt, you hamburger eatin muhfuggas with clogged colons and pesticide soaked livers, would starve 3 weeks after Walmart ran dry & Carl's Jr shut down the drive thru.
Does that mean Americans "don't know how to grow enough wheat and corn"?
^ No. But it means every nation-state must deal with the realities of international power. Which means quit bitching about "punitive foreign currency manipulations" and do what you gotta do so your people can prosper.
some kneegrows just happily, naturally, and gratefully assume the position....,
^... while others howl at the moon and swear they be gettin' deep.
Being a Somali pirate looks like a profitable business from the outside and it is. The margins are as attractive as those in the software industry. Microsoft still makes 60% or better margins on its core Windows, business, and server operations. With the risks that the pirates take, they ought to do as well as that.
The New York Times did a piece last year in which it estimated that the pirates would bring in $50 million in 2008. That number will be higher this year, by as much as four times.
Most information on hijacked ships is that the ransom paid to get them back is about $2 million per vessel and crew. In some cases, the pirates actually charge an additional fee for the ships which has been estimated as being as high as $5 million.
Based on 24/7 Wall St.’s evaluation of news reports, the Somali pirates are seizing near one ship per day now. This week, on a single day, they took over four vessels. Even though several large national navies including the US are policing the shipping channels to cut down piracy, the rate at which the pirates can grab prey is picked up fairly fast. The Somali pirates could take over between 80 and 120 vessels this year, and the figure is conservative. That would put their gross revenue as high as $200 million.
The pirates almost certainly pay protection to the head of the Puntland, Mohamud Muse Hirsi. Puntland is the region where most of the large “mother ships” that take the small pirate raiders out to sea, are located. For protection from international intervention on land, senior Puntland officials are probably getting a third of the take, or about $65 million.
The next largest expense is buying and keeping “mother ships” in good working order. The boats are usually trawlers which are, based on photos, about 100 feet long. One or two of these have been sunk by foreign navies, but they do not have to be replaced often. A large trawler built in the 1970s costs about $1 million. A trawler that is ten years old costs closer to $3 million. Some of the trawlers the pirates use were probably seized during their raids. Most research indicates that one out of three attempts by the pirates to hijack a ship succeeds. Covering enough ground to seize 120 vessels a year based on 400 attempts means that the pirates are probably running a dozen mother ships at any one time. The costs to “buy” and maintain those ships is about $3 million each per year, because a trawler that is seized for use and not ransomed is $3 million in revenue not taken in. Mother ship costs are at least $30 million, maybe $36 million. These are not annual costs. For each one sunk, the cost of replacement is $3 million. On a pro forma basis for operations, the cost of mother ships is $6 million.
Each mother ship works with four or five attack vessels, which are not unlike WWII PT boats, but are made of light-weight metal or composite instead of wood. Each of these has to run on two or more turbo diesels which put out 480 HP at 3,000 PRM. These are not engines which are likely to be used on any of the hijacked ships so they are probably one of the largest direct costs the pirates have. If the pirates operate 50 raiding boat it requires 100 engines. These cost as much as $15,000 each, so the cost of these is about $1.5 million. In most cases, they will not need to be replaced every year. The boat themselves are probably less than $50,000 for the 50 shells the total $2.5 million. Once again this is a one-time cost for those that are not sunk or abandoned.
Fuel for these diesels is probably very expensive but a lot of that can be taken from captured ships.
The pirates have to work with crews of mechanics, but their wages are probably modest.
Each mother ship and raider requires high-end GPS, radar and sonar. The best radars available for small ships run about $4,000. High end GPS systems cost about $1,500, and sonar systems a little less than $1,000. All of the equipment runs about $400,000 for 12 trawlers and 50 raiders before installation costs. Once again, this is not an annual cost because most of the hardware can be used for several years.
The cost of what are called “extreme weather and marine” satellite phones from one of the two premier global providers, Iridium and GlobalStar, is $1,200 per unit. The cost of calls per minute is $5. Total cost for phones comes to $60,000 based on each team of pirates having two phones, and all of these probably get replaced each year due to damage. Assuming 100 minutes a month per phone and the total cost of airtime is $600,000.
Weapons are one of the largest single costs that Somali pirates have. According to a book on AK-47s from Amazon, the guns cost about $345. That is a total of $173,000 because each of 500 men is armed. The price for 9MM pistols on the black market runs about $200, for a total of $100,000. Browning 50 caliber machine guns are $14,000 each, with at least one per raider and two per mother ship for a total cost of just over $1 million. Rocket propelled grenades which are used in most raids run $3,000 and one is used in each of the 400 hijacking attempts for a total of $1.2 million. Total ammunition costs at $1 per bullet are $250,000.
Food and housing for 500 men and an average of 200 hostages has to be $10 a day, or $2.5 million a year.
Based on annual costs with pro forma calculations for things that have a life of more than a year, the expenses of operating the Somali pirate operation are $79 million. That puts the profit of the operation at over $120 million. It is worth contrasting that to the average income per capita in Somalia which is only about $600.
The pirate business is not going away. It is too profitable.
^ Credit where due: The above was written by Douglas A. McIntyre of 24/7 Wall St.
Yup - Life is way too good for the Somali Pirate operators to give up right now. As long as they can keep the violence level down - they are in fat city. They currently hold about 300 sailors and 20 or so ships. As long as those sailors are returned unharmed - the companies will continue to pay the ransoms, and the Navies of the world will likely not do anything drastic.
The Merchant Marine will likely start arming their ships with non-lethal defenses. While Blackwater has offered to put guards on each ship for a cost of $60k a trip, but I don’t think the Merchant Marine wants to invite the sort of shooting war that entails. Non-lethal systems might include things like armored crew safe rooms with controls which could shut down the ship. Better, more powerful water cannons to ward off attacks, tangle mats, and even laser dazzlers are also being considered.
The biggest effort will be in law enforcement going after the people in the originating port cities who are telling the pirates when to expect the ships, and what cargo they are carrying. If they can shut that down, then they take away one of the pirate’s advantages. There are so many guns in Africa - going after gun dealers is a joke. Most of what I’ve seen the pirates carry, at least in the pictures published is left over Soviet or Chinese junk, which is cheaply purchasable in a hundred arms bazaars in the region.
But the simple fact is, as long as the pirates keep the take under about $150 million - it’s way too costly for anyone to go in a really shut them down.
BTx3
Things have CHANGED
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mNAOq8ApgBA/Sek2sSFEdPI/AAAAAAAAApk/iRZsIy-QBJU/s1600-h/Shooting+Blacks.png
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