Hey DV: Sorry to bring bs to your blog. I don't know how the thing between Craig and me degenerated. Basically I posted on my blog that the octo mom had a website. He said she should have been sterilized. From that point on this dialog has ensued. You have seen our responses. Pretty stupid in the end. But I could not let that slide. Just as you believe that strong families and VALUING children is important for societal growth, and will uplift Black folk in particular, I strongly believe that abortion is anathema to these principles and cannot let somebody call a baby a clump of cells. So both of us are guilty or poor conduct, and for that I apologize. BUT I cannot apologize for my stances:)
I made that comment in the context of an entirely different post on the 12th.
You then took it upon yourself to call me out in a post on the 15th in which you imputed a whole host of your own fragmentary imaginings into my earlier simple statement of opinion;
My response: Craig, this is where you and I diverge a great deal in philosophy. I am not a Malthusian who views humans as parasitic entities who ravage the Earth and do nothing more than take its resources. Our relationship to the Earth and to each other is more complicated than that. I don't feel upset in the least that Nadya Suleman needs help to raise her children. When I look at the math and the seriousness of our economy, just about everyone with more than three or four children needs to use public assistance. Bottom line. This is because the costs of goods and services are too high for many people with that many children to afford. I would much rather pay for a person's children to have a quality of life than to pay for wars that bankrupt our nation and kill innocent women and children overseas.
Abuse of the commons? Sure, it is somewhat wrong to make a decision and then put it all on the public. However, her website soliciting private donations shows she is willing to do more than take public money. I also understand she was approached by some company for a book deal. Anyway, what you are getting at is utterly terrifying. You advocate the state telling people how many children to have and if they exceed that amount, then sterilizing them. How utterly sinister. In a sense you remind me of eugenicists who advocating sterilizing those who were 'less' than others. From a cost benefit analysis, one could easily state that children who have congenital deformities should be aborted before coming into the world because they will financially drain our systems.
But this is the problem with our society; human life has a price tag. How foul. I am quite certain that if we valued children as unique beings and didn't just look at them as resource gobblers, we'd have a paradigm shift in our society where personal responsibility rather than personal indulgence would be the main ideals..
Pro choice advocates should support choice, even if they don't agree with certain choices. Pro life advocates should support life, despite how it got here. I see a major disconnect between both of these camps and how Madame Suleman has been depicted in the media.
Having disposed of a whole slew of immoral, irrational, and irresponsible tapeworms in the past couple weeks, I must say I feel quite liberated for having hauled the load of you down to the digital curb...,
Craig: Your rantings are so irrational that I don't know what to say. If the truth in not in me, then you don't know what truth is. YOur opinion encompassed exactly what I said it did; malthusian eugenics. I don't know why you insist on denying that fact. I suppose it is because you have the sickness called not admitting when you are wrong and this is so entrenched that you would post meaningless garbage on the web to disprove what I have said, which is just that; meaningless garbage. You got real issues man.
Having disposed of a whole slew of immoral, irrational, and irresponsible tapeworms in the past couple weeks, I must say I feel quite liberated for having hauled the load of you down to the digital curb...,
No you don't. You feel oddly dissatisfied and empty.
YOur opinion encompassed exactly what I said it did;
No, your imagination encompassed exactly what you made up and projected onto me.
From "state" sterilization through Malthusian eugenics, you made it all up in your post and have insisted ever since that your words came out of my mouth.
You pulled a classic Ronald Barr stunt and are too unselfconscious to recognize that fact even when it's clearly pointed out to you.
This makes you a liar and polemicist of the worst and most pedestrian sort.
The record is brief enough and clear enough to make that fact very obvious from a cursory review of what you wrote in your post.
Both Nulan and Suleman are radical autonomists. In this light, there is logic in the belief that that which they will is their principle interest.
Nulan supports abortion and sterilization because he's an autonomist and it is his will to do so. It is nothing more than an exercise of his first principle. It does not matter whether Suleman is also a radical autonomist. There is no "honor" among autonomists.
On this ground, with the idea that Suleman is also a radical autonomist, sterilization becomes a legitimate topic of discussion because such radical autonomy is destructive to the whole of society and Suleman's agency can conceivably be limited with the understanding that she represents the same belief in radical autonomy as Nulan himself.
Craig: I guess you believe in lying and your memory must be poor. If you don't think that saying someone should be sterilized is Malthusian or eugenicist in nature, then you are intellectually dishonest and YOU feel empty just as Mr. Mills aptly pointed out.
ThorDaddy, now what you say has some merit to the extent that both Suleman and Nulan are two sides of the same coin; the belief in self gratification regardless of other considerations seems to be a hallmark of 'radical automotons'.
However, at least Suleman has added life and diversity to the world. Nulan has just tossed about insults and degraded those with whom he disagrees. I'd say she is beating him in positive contributions to society.
"Oh Shit! ... GMO Food Sterilizes People ... And It's Really A Form of Population Control?"
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
INTELLECTUAL INSURRECTIONISTS
Alexander King, Bertrand Schneider - founder Club of Rome - The First Global Revolution, pp.104-105
"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."
Were We All Kunta Kinte? Or Are We Also Mansa Musa?
Plantation Negros & The New World Order
Illuminati Want My Mind Soul & My Body - A DV Joint
Barry Goldwater 1909-1998
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. "
Robert Mugabe Speaks To Thunderous Approval At Harlem's Mount Olive Baptist Church
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad
"It Is Easier To Change A Man's Religion Than It Is To Change His Diet"
Private Prison Industry
2,000,000 human beings in American prisons and counting
IS THIS LITTLE GUY A PERSON?
The founders of the American state understood that the proper functioning of a democracy required an educated electorate. It is this understanding that justifies a system of public education and that led slaveholders to resist the spread of literacy among their chattels. But the meaning of "educated" has changed beyond recognition in two hundred years. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are no longer sufficient to decide on public policy. Now we need quantum mechanics and molecular biology. The knowledge required for political rationality, once available to the masses, is now in the possession of a specially educated elite, a situation that creates a series of tensions and contradictions in the operation of representative democracy.
Greater Display of Conspicuous Consumption?
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. P
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Louis Pasteur
"The Microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything."
A DV JOINT
Ask Denmark Vesey
DenmarkVesey1822@hotmail.com
Chris Hedges Warns of The Dangers of The "New Atheists" and "Secular Fundamentalists"
Beverly Johnson. Beverly Hills. 1978
Do You Consider Yourself:
"Bra! Tell Me About It!"
"Most of the trouble I have had in advancing the cause of the race has come from Negroes."
Is President Barack Hussein Obama The Driving Force Behind US Policy?
Ted Turner - CNN founder and UN supporter - quoted in the The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor, June '
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
Lord Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science On Society (Routledge Press: New York, 1951).
"At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 per diem. War, so far, has had no very great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars.. War has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove effective. If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. The state of affairs might be unpleasant, but what of it?"
Denmark Vesey For President 08
1. Troops Out Of Iraq Immediately. Like By Monday. 2. Money Owed To Haliburton and War Contractors Be Given Directly To The Iraqi People 3. Complete Electoral Reform 4. No Corporate Conglomerate Will Be Allowed To Control More Than 5% Of News Market 5. Federal Reserve Abolished 6. For-Profit Prison Industry Abolished
*George Orwell (1903-1950) English novelist, critic
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness... If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... The great enemy of clear language is insincerity... The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it... To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle... For a creative writer possession of the truth is less important than emotional sincerity.
“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society will be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values.” – Zbigniew Brzezinski
God Don't Make No Mistakes
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Gordon Parks 1912-2006
"I suffered evils, but without allowing them to rob me of the freedom to expand."
9 comments:
03 03 09
Hey DV:
Sorry to bring bs to your blog. I don't know how the thing between Craig and me degenerated. Basically I posted on my blog that the octo mom had a website. He said she should have been sterilized. From that point on this dialog has ensued. You have seen our responses. Pretty stupid in the end. But I could not let that slide. Just as you believe that strong families and VALUING children is important for societal growth, and will uplift Black folk in particular, I strongly believe that abortion is anathema to these principles and cannot let somebody call a baby a clump of cells. So both of us are guilty or poor conduct, and for that I apologize. BUT I cannot apologize for my stances:)
The.truth.is.not.in.you.Mahndisa.S.Rigmaiden!
I made that comment in the context of an entirely different post on the 12th.
You then took it upon yourself to call me out in a post on the 15th in which you imputed a whole host of your own fragmentary imaginings into my earlier simple statement of opinion;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: Regarding a comment left by Craig Nulan see below:
cnulan said...
Mahndisa, you've reached the tipping point where your professed principles have run aground on her inexcusable abuse of the commons.
This woman should have been sterilized immediately after dropping her first welfare dependent child.
2/12/2009 3:05 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My response:
Craig, this is where you and I diverge a great deal in philosophy. I am not a Malthusian who views humans as parasitic entities who ravage the Earth and do nothing more than take its resources. Our relationship to the Earth and to each other is more complicated than that. I don't feel upset in the least that Nadya Suleman needs help to raise her children. When I look at the math and the seriousness of our economy, just about everyone with more than three or four children needs to use public assistance. Bottom line. This is because the costs of goods and services are too high for many people with that many children to afford. I would much rather pay for a person's children to have a quality of life than to pay for wars that bankrupt our nation and kill innocent women and children overseas.
Abuse of the commons? Sure, it is somewhat wrong to make a decision and then put it all on the public. However, her website soliciting private donations shows she is willing to do more than take public money. I also understand she was approached by some company for a book deal. Anyway, what you are getting at is utterly terrifying. You advocate the state telling people how many children to have and if they exceed that amount, then sterilizing them. How utterly sinister. In a sense you remind me of eugenicists who advocating sterilizing those who were 'less' than others. From a cost benefit analysis, one could easily state that children who have congenital deformities should be aborted before coming into the world because they will financially drain our systems.
But this is the problem with our society; human life has a price tag. How foul. I am quite certain that if we valued children as unique beings and didn't just look at them as resource gobblers, we'd have a paradigm shift in our society where personal responsibility rather than personal indulgence would be the main ideals..
Pro choice advocates should support choice, even if they don't agree with certain choices. Pro life advocates should support life, despite how it got here. I see a major disconnect between both of these camps and how Madame Suleman has been depicted in the media.
Having disposed of a whole slew of immoral, irrational, and irresponsible tapeworms in the past couple weeks, I must say I feel quite liberated for having hauled the load of you down to the digital curb...,
03 03 09
Craig:
Your rantings are so irrational that I don't know what to say. If the truth in not in me, then you don't know what truth is. YOur opinion encompassed exactly what I said it did; malthusian eugenics. I don't know why you insist on denying that fact. I suppose it is because you have the sickness called not admitting when you are wrong and this is so entrenched that you would post meaningless garbage on the web to disprove what I have said, which is just that; meaningless garbage. You got real issues man.
Having disposed of a whole slew of immoral, irrational, and irresponsible tapeworms in the past couple weeks, I must say I feel quite liberated for having hauled the load of you down to the digital curb...,
No you don't. You feel oddly dissatisfied and empty.
YOur opinion encompassed exactly what I said it did;
No, your imagination encompassed exactly what you made up and projected onto me.
From "state" sterilization through Malthusian eugenics, you made it all up in your post and have insisted ever since that your words came out of my mouth.
You pulled a classic Ronald Barr stunt and are too unselfconscious to recognize that fact even when it's clearly pointed out to you.
This makes you a liar and polemicist of the worst and most pedestrian sort.
The record is brief enough and clear enough to make that fact very obvious from a cursory review of what you wrote in your post.
No you don't. You feel oddly dissatisfied and empty.
Not quite pumpkinhead.
Don't confuse my insistence on closing out the record with any misgivings about closing you out.
I have an endless penchant for keeping and settling accounts...,
Both Nulan and Suleman are radical autonomists. In this light, there is logic in the belief that that which they will is their principle interest.
Nulan supports abortion and sterilization because he's an autonomist and it is his will to do so. It is nothing more than an exercise of his first principle. It does not matter whether Suleman is also a radical autonomist. There is no "honor" among autonomists.
On this ground, with the idea that Suleman is also a radical autonomist, sterilization becomes a legitimate topic of discussion because such radical autonomy is destructive to the whole of society and Suleman's agency can conceivably be limited with the understanding that she represents the same belief in radical autonomy as Nulan himself.
03 03 09
Craig:
I guess you believe in lying and your memory must be poor. If you don't think that saying someone should be sterilized is Malthusian or eugenicist in nature, then you are intellectually dishonest and YOU feel empty just as Mr. Mills aptly pointed out.
ThorDaddy, now what you say has some merit to the extent that both Suleman and Nulan are two sides of the same coin; the belief in self gratification regardless of other considerations seems to be a hallmark of 'radical automotons'.
However, at least Suleman has added life and diversity to the world. Nulan has just tossed about insults and degraded those with whom he disagrees. I'd say she is beating him in positive contributions to society.
your quote is upthread twit! you think people can't read your words for themselves?
{{{{anything else}}}} you have to say on the subject is just so much self-justifying hot air...,
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