Saturday, November 10, 2007

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27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bad Analogy

Have they ever found Daniel Craig or Tom Cruise with a house/car full of guns?

The difference between is, is that there is a clear line between fantasy and reality...

T.I. may rap about guns....
but Clifford Joseph Harris, Jr. was actually found with guns...

Has Al Pacino been found to be running a criminal drug empire?

No of course....because there is a CLEAR line between Scarface and Al Pacino

Has Tom Cruise ever been involved in a nightclub shooting.....no but Jamal Barrow(Shyne) has...

Its not like they rap about this shit and then afterwards they are totally different people...well some do...but they are labeled fake

Many groups like Gangstarr had more of a "strictly on wax" or a biggie smalls had a "just a narrator" perspective on things

Today's artists say things like "I'm not even a rapper"

Artists from the 90's had the perspective that they for the most part were hip hop artists/rappers....today's acts give you the idea that aren't rappers at all but really a drug dealer/criminal.......and rapping is just side thing they do...


http://www.mixtapesone.com/images/clothes/imnotjimjones.jpg

Anonymous said...

Only one of these men has a felony "rap" sheet, wears a bullet proof vest in real life, has constant beef, works in an industry that had Tupac and Biggie snuffed out and means more to little young brothers and sisters DV. In case you didn't know the difference.

Denmark Vesey said...

um hmm ...

Anonymous said...

Generally speaking, I have no time for anyone who pretends that guns are the problem. I had a Black judge tell me 12 years ago that he was tired of all the guns in the hood, and he didn't care if I did have a permit, he was going to do everything in his power to get the guns out of the hood. A Black male judge in the Black mecca of the South. His ignorant position is born of the frustration we should all feel when brothers and sisters are dying in record numbers every year from senseless violence. I too am dismayed by the body counts in the inner city, but I know enough to not blame the gun. I don't blame the car if a drunk driver kills a family on the highway. I don't blame the drugs for an overdose victims demise. And I don't blame rap music, violent movies, or video games for the mistakes people choose to make in their lives. If ever there was an issue where personal responsibility is the final resting place, it must be how we choose to treat or mistreat each other and how an why we choose to be violent towards each other.

Regarding rap glorifying violence, I would much rather see rappers glorify revolutionary violence rather than gratuitious acts of braggadocio that serve only to prove that "I aint never scared" or "I aint never ran from a nigga and I aint about to pick today to start running", or I got to protect a block that never has and never will belong to me or mine.

Not to say that there are not some hip hop artists who fit the profile I prefer, just that they don't get the publicity and prestige that they probably deserve. Rather we glorify the brother that "got that ex if you into takin drugs".

Anonymous said...

EM
"His ignorant position is born of the frustration"

Very few people die from a good old fashion fist fight!. Check out the stats of the other non third world countries. This country because of basically zero gun control leads the world in gun violence. In the heat of the moment people don't need lethal weapons.

Anonymous said...

EE
"And I don't blame rap music, violent movies, or video games for the mistakes people choose to make in their lives."

When studies and statistics reflect that certain art is imitated in life when do you draw the line. You may bot blame the rain as the reason your carpet gets wet in your house. And you may not blame the home builder... But the fact is the rain water caused the damage. Thus fix the roof.

Anonymous said...

Casper, are you then advocating a good old fashioned fist fight as a solution to the completely unfounded violence we perpetrate against others of our race and community? The very nature of violence requires that it escalate to the highest degree needed to make the point. That point being that I can control others through violent means. So if it's not a gun, then it will be a stick, a machete, or whatever else comes to hand. In this respect, guns are merely a technological advance in the application of violence. Guns are not even the higheest technological advance in that area.

And your wet carpet analogy leaves a lot to be desired. I would not blame the rain, as it is a natural phenomena, but I would certainly blame the builder for an improperly built roof. What I would not do is blame the hammer and nails. The violence problems we face today are not natural phenomena, but social phenomena that can be traced back to the R/WS system of oppression, but must ultimately be dealt with on a personal responsibility level.

There are studies that say that Blacks are inferior to whites. There are studies that say there are more Black men in jail than in college. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I don't place much faith in any of them.

Anonymous said...

Ultimately, the use of guns to commit violent acts does rest with the person using the gun. However, statistics indicate that guns are in the hands of violent people who commit crimes particularly in the inner cities.
To curb this menace, one would need multi "pronged" interventions
one of which should be some form of gun control. This particular intervention will at least in the short term make it less easy to soot your gun at the slightest provocation. This intervention should go hand in hand with other interventions aimed at changing the culture of violence that exists.
That culture of violence includes the state sanctioned violence towards other countries, groups etc.

Anonymous said...

Exodus
And your wet carpet analogy leaves a lot to be desired. I would not blame the rain, as it is a natural phenomena

And human behavior is not natural???

Anonymous said...

Exodus
The violence problems we face today are not natural phenomena

Violebce has been documented since cave men. How is is not natural?

Anonymous said...

Casper, by your logic, there is nothing to even discuss in terms of controlling or working to end violence. It's natural for humans to dominate each other through the use of force and violence so why complain about it. It's only natural for the U.S. to take by force what it wants from Iraq and anybody else, so why does it bother us? It's only natural for kids in the hood to kill each other over real and imagined slights and insults and over illusory control of 30 square feet of concrete from which to sell their street pharmaceuticals. So why do we decry the violence?

It's natural for men, being generally the stronger species to drag women away by their hair and do with them what we will, because after all, the cavemen did it.

Is this really the position you want to take after all of your other statements about how much work we need to do to stop violence? Surely I misunderstand you. Like you misunderstand me, perhaps. I do not consider human behavior to be in the category of "natural". The human condition is not natural in the sense that it has taken the course dictated by humans.

Anonymous said...

wow! Denmark, now I get it. Hip Hop threatens the white male monopoly on symbols and expressions of power. Guns, money, cars are modern phallic symbols. Black rap critics act as guard dogs for the elite, attacking black men who dare borrow the figurative power this iconography.

Brilliant. I love this blog. The writers on here are dope!

Carmen Santana

Intellectual Insurgent said...

DV,

Can you put a title on this post - anything - so I can link to it?

Anonymous said...

Fiddy represents his music as being illustrative of his actual life style.

My issue is the fact that young black boys are way more likely to emulate fiddy over some white actor makes him socially irresponsible in my opinion.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

I'm surprised to hear that comment come from you Kalena.

Didn't Eddie Murphy do a hilarious stand-up bit about little White boys being pumped up after watching Rocky?

Anonymous said...

II
"Didn't Eddie Murphy do a hilarious stand-up bit about little White boys being pumped up after watching Rocky?"

Yes and Chris Rock did a stand up of how little black boys imitate gangsta rappers!

Anonymous said...

II,

i can't recall your position on this topic, so i'm having a hard time getting your point.

Are you supporting or negating my comment?

Are you saying that little black boys do not emulate rappers?

Intellectual Insurgent said...

Whether they do or don't emulate them, in my view, is completely beside the point.

I'm just surprised you're calling 50 "socially irresponsible".

That assumes he's responsible for our "socialness", society if you will, and is somehow derelict in his duties.

But from where do such duties arise? What does "socially responsible" look like? The minute a kid emulates him, he has to stop being himself?

Anonymous said...

oh ok. i get it now. i see why you say you were 'surprised' at my comment.

um. socially responsible means, to me, that if i know i have the power to impact the community/society, then i'm responsible for that impact.

No, you don't have to stop being yourself, but I don't think he's being himself. He's putting out what he knows will sell, just like the white men in the movies.

No, it's not his fault that children are exposed to his music and image. There is a point though, when we have to take responsibility for the impact we have on our surroundings.

Principle versus reality.

Denmark Vesey said...

You make a good point Kalena.

However, I've got to challenge your assumption that for a young boy to "emulate 50" is a bad thing.

Bear with me.

Little boys have grown up emulating men with guns for generations. For thousands of years before that, boys emulated men with swords, knives, spears and arrows. Check the walls of caves and you will see prehistoric examples of the imagery currently used by 50 Cent.

From stories of Daniel Boon, to John Wayne, to Bogart, to Gene Autry to Clint Eastwood, to James Bond to Tupac ... guns have been firmly established in the iconography used to symbolize power and virility in this culture.

Now, hold on.

I can only imagine the female impulse to flee danger, bouncing around your mind.

I submit to you, that more of the problems that face black Americans today have been the result of not having guns when other men did, than having guns when other men didn't.

The thing about a gun, is you don't have to shoot it, to leverage it's power. That also applies to Nuclear Weapons. (Look at how the US has leveraged those guns in this world)

80% of the power attributed to "white people" is symbolic. It is show. It is myth.

The reason little black girls point to little white dolls when offered a choice in psychological studies is because of "perceived" beauty.

Any little black girl who watches television for 10 minutes is going to drown in images of beautiful white women.

Little black boys drown in images of self-sufficient, determined, decisive, empowered white men armed to the teeth, who act as judge and executioner. That's why many of them grow believing in myths like "Global System of White Supremacy".

In a world drowning in guns, it is irresponsible to teach black boys they are OK for white men, but off limits to black men.

Anonymous said...

DV, all that you have said makes sense, however you failed to add an important dimension to this story.

1. Guns are overwhelmingly being used by black people to kill black people.
2. At this point in the global arms race, it is unlikely that the possession of guns will provide any form of leverage to the black community.

Anonymous said...

II
"I'm just surprised you're calling 50 "socially irresponsible"."

It's a morals and values issue. For without those same consumers he spits his drug slinging to are the young consumers he needs to earn his income. His initial financial successful was dependent on the intellectually weak!

Anonymous said...

DV
"I submit to you, that more of the problems that face black Americans today have been the result of not having guns when other men did, than having guns when other men didn't.

The thing about a gun, is you don't have to shoot it, to leverage it's power. That also applies to Nuclear Weapons. (Look at how the US has leveraged those guns in this world)"

The flaw in your argument is the black men are killing black men over 90% of the time. So whatever excuse you submit... the facts are it doesn't work!

Denmark Vesey said...

"The flaw in your argument is the black men are killing black men over 90% of the time. So whatever excuse you submit... the facts are it doesn't work!" Casper

Brother Casper ... Brother Casper,

... and white men are killing white men

... and Asian men are killing Asian men

... and Latino men are killing Latinos

... Europeans kill Europeans (60 million in WWII)

Black people have no monopoly on intra-group violence. The entire notion of "Black on Black" violence is racist because it suggests some kind of anomaly compared to other groups.

The subtle implication that guns are "OK" for others but off limits to black men is self-defeating, silly and self-imposed racism.

Anonymous said...

DV
"Black people have no monopoly on intra-group violence. The entire notion of "Black on Black" violence is racist because it suggests some kind of anomaly compared to other groups"

The problem with your argument is that in this country the system is stacked against black men. Black men shouldn't be attacking black men but the white dominated power structure. Black men gain no additional freedom or economic gains from killing each other. They may fight over turf...But not land. They may fight over ho's but not women. To give a man a gun just because everyone else has them is group think. Black men's mortality rates in this country are basically the lowest. That is due primarily to gun violence.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

Ok then Casper, what do you propose?

Shall we pass a law that says no Black men shall be permitted to own, possess or even be seen with a gun?

Anonymous said...

II
"Shall we pass a law that says no Black men shall be permitted to own, possess or even be seen with a gun?"

No that is not the point or the end goal. The issue is no different II with respect to how black men should obtain wealth. Should they obtain wealth using illegal means vs. legal means. Should a man own a firearm to protect himself during legal means or during illegal means. One is self defense the other is gangsta. There is a difference. Now if the image of 50 was in the context of law enforcement like Will Smith in Bad Boys the take away for youth is different than if the image of 50 with a gun is in the context of a drug deal or robbery. DV wants you to believe these images are all the same. I disagree!