Cookie said ...
The botom line is that by and large, the women portrayed in most hip hop videos are black women. It should not take a rocket scientist to discover that the severely disgruntled attitudes of self hate that many black male hip hop artists manifest in their music is directed upon images that represent the very black women that raised them by themselves.
Cookie said..."The botom line is that by and large, the women portrayed in most hip hop videos are black women."
As opposed to what? Chinese women? Little Mexican women supposed to be in a G Unit video?
Is the mere appearance in a hip hop video for women, automatically degrading? Is Beyonce degraded? Is Ciarra degraded? This degradation that you speak of matter of factly, is it exclusive to hip hop?
If appearing in a Hip Hop video is automatically degrading, why are thousands of women competing to do so?
Are white women who appear in Rock videos degraded? Are white women who appear in Hollywood feature films also degraded? Are they less degraded than "BLACK WOMEN" as Big J suggests, who appear in hip hop videos?
Do white rockers display severely disgruntled attitudes of self hate in their videos? Does corresponding criticism of these rock musicians exist?
I'm not as interested in the answers to these questions, as I am fascinated by the origins of these widely accepted and universally repeated memes.
One set of rules for black men and one set of rules for other people is EXACTLY WHY WE HAVE JENNA 6.
Black people are like police officers who beat themselves and then cry police brutality.
26 comments:
Alexis is such a breath of fresh air. I hope it works for them. She's a "real" black chick.
Ahh Robyn, you just saying that because she looks like she could be your cousin.
What's funny Robyn, is that while the suggestion that "hip hop demeans black women" is constantly pounded into people's heads, it seems like rappers (ethos) and athletes (ethos) are among the few brothers who 1) still seem to like girls and 2) bothering to have relationships with them.
Pitting Hip Hop against women is pitting black men and against black women.
Divide and Conquer.
"Ahh Robyn, you just saying that because she looks like she could be your cousin."
Me: Yup! She's beautiful without even a hint of "Mel B"-ism.
My my, what a modest man.
What's wrong with Tiger? That dudes is my idol.
"Pitting Hip Hop against women is pitting black men and against black women."
Huh? Nobody's pitting music against a gender. We're just saying stop callin' them hoes all the time. It's tired and stale. Come up with something that we can feel, that sustains us. It ain't gotta be soft, bitchy music. Just real music. Not corporate sambo-ism.
J,
Who is "we" and "us"? The music is obviously appealing to someone or it wouldn't be top-selling year after year.
Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it needs to change. You sound like those pundits who complained about Elvis.
II,
Paris Hilton appeals to a lot of people too.
I'm entitled to my opinion.
You sound like DV's parrot.
You're right. And just because Paris Hilton doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean she needs to change.
You're sounding like Sharpton's parrot.
The botom line is that by and large, the women portrayed in most hip hop videos are black women. It should not take a rocket scientist to discover that the severely disgruntled attitudes of self hate that many black male hip hop artists manifest in their music is directed upon images that represent the very black women that raised them by themselves.
IMO, "Fitty's" overly inflated machismo image is very obviously a smoke screen to divert attention away from some very homo-erotic tendencies.
It's not sexy or alluring, it's a desprate cry for help. Detention centers should require mandatory therapy prior to release!
II,
And more to your point, hip hop sales (mostly white kids) have taken a nose-dive. The formula of Benzes and Bitches is old, even to little white kids.
Yeah, Paris is doing just fine, right? Gimme a break. You don't believe that.
I don't care how Paris Hilton is doing. I really could care less. She doesn't need to change just because I have no interest in her shallow life. But that really is beside the point.
Here is what you said -
We're just saying stop callin' them hoes all the time. It's tired and stale. Come up with something that we can feel, that sustains us.
I asked who is "we" and "us". You still haven't answered that.
If hip hop sales are down, then you don't need to demand anything from these guys. They will have to respond to the consumers who have grown bored with their product.
You refer to "real music" but real to whom? Just because it isn't real to you, doesn't make it fake.
Shoot, I hate Snoop Dogg. Cannot stand him lyrically or musically. At all. So I don't buy his crap music. But I don't sit here crying that he needs to clean up his lyrics to appeal to me. Why should he? There are plenty who like his stuff.
That's like telling a clothing store to stop selling certain clothing items because the items don't appeal to me. That's silliness.
"We" is me and the other millions of black people that enjoy hip hop but thinks it needs more meat to it.
So you don't like Snoop; I don't like Snoop. But the difference is that I don't like SOME of the things Snoop says because of the feelings it can engender in young black people.
Under your line of reasoning, you should just stop criticizing Mubarak and just be quiet and ignore him if you don't like him.
II
That's like telling a clothing store to stop selling certain clothing items because the items don't appeal to me. That's silliness.
No it's not... It's like selling hoochie mama shorts to 12 year old black girls and telling them it will make them desirable women. II just like you wish to have the smut continue. We can argue that we choose against it. Because at the end of the day the only persons profiting are the rappers and their music companies. There is no derived value from 50's or Snoop lyrics & videos to the minority community. If they ended today people would not stop living and breathing.
The State Of . . . said...
"We" is me and the other millions of black people that enjoy hip hop but thinks it needs more meat to it. "
"We" is a handful of people that see tremendous opportunity in hip hop but think millions of black people need more meat to them.
Under your line of reasoning, you should just stop criticizing Mubarak and just be quiet and ignore him if you don't like him.
That is a terrible analogy. Mubarak isn't selling a product. Hip hop is purchased voluntarily. Mubarak isn't. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
"We" is me and the other millions of black people that enjoy hip hop but thinks it needs more meat to it.
Ok, so you and the other millions of Black people get to dictate the content of anything you don't like? If so, can you also ask movie companies to step up their scripts because most of what's out there is crap, can you ask Eddie Griffin to get a better act? Since you and the other millions of Black people have a right to tell every Black artist what they should and shouldn't say so that it appeals to you and your constituency, will you represent me too? I personally dislike Fubu clothing. Can you ask them to make more stuff that fits women with my body type?
If they ended today people would not stop living and breathing.
Ok, if it ended today, what would be the benefit? Would those same 12-year-old girls become little church-going virgins?
I personally have no desire to see smut continue, but your fascist desire to stamp it out as "degenerate" will create far more problems than it solves. Who gets to dictate what's smut? I thought that is what parents were for.
If I as a parent don't appreciate the images and lyrics of some rappers, I have the right speak my mind about it. I don't see what's so wrong about that. This is especially so when most rappers are controlled by Rupert Murdoch, Iovine, etc. The way rap has been narrowed down to a specific formula is part of the oppression of black people that has us thinking of ourselves as nothing but sexual degenerates. If that's fine with you, OK. It's not OK with me.
Oh, so now it's "facist" to state that you don't appreciate some of the things rappers say. Nah, that's not an overstatement.
"I personally have no desire to see smut continue." Then we're on the same page.
You have the "right" to speak your mind about whatever the hell you want. So?
It is what you choose and who you choose to villainize that is so illuminating.
The way rap has been narrowed down to a specific formula is part of the oppression of black people that has us thinking of ourselves as nothing but sexual degenerates.
Does "us" include you? Are you telling me, that as a grown man, you are so influenced by rap that you see yourself as a sexual degenerate?
Perhaps there is some rap music you shouldn't let your children listen to, just like there are movies you shouldn't let your children watch. Does that mean the entire genre should be dumbed down for everyone?
Those same kids listening to rap music are playing Grand Theft Auto and going to see Hostel and Saw at the movies while their parents are out getting drunk or in the bedroom with random one-night-stand #105. How are you able to single out rap music as the root of what's wrong with Black people. Plenty of people listen to rap and don't see themselves as sexual degenerates.
II,
Does "us" include you? Not so much me, but a lot of brothers I know. Like DV says, a lot of brothers get their "swagger" from hip hop, even so-called vanilla, corporate negros like me. The point of music is to influence, isn't it?? Some relaxes you; other music gets you amped up. Some music makes you feel sexy. SOME rap makes SOME black men feel like they are the sexual beasts of burden. (See the gay pics of 50, below, for example.)
Are you telling me, that as a grown man, you are so influenced by rap that you see yourself as a sexual degenerate? See above.
I'm not asking for rap to be dumbed-down, but smartened-up. I wish they'd get more political and lessen (not necessarily stop) the rims and tires stuff. It's just old. Rap needs new talent.
I'm not at all saying that rap is the ROOT of black problems, but I believe that SOME rap plays A ROLE in the way SOME black people process things.
I'm not asking for rap to be dumbed-down, but smartened-up.
That assumes that Jay-Z and 50 aren't saying anything intelligent.
But, in any event, if you want artists who talk about politics and social issues, listen to The Roots, Talib Kweli, Dead Prez, Common, Mos Def and plenty of others.
They are out there. It's not fair that you ignore them and then complain they aren't there.
Like DV says, Common etc. bore me too. I like people that mix up politics with some good ol' fashion thuggery and sex, like 2pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Eminem, etc.
Jay-Z is the most political rapper who ever lived.
"I'm Che Guevara with bling on".
He has revolutionized how young blacks perceive themselves politically.
Justin's generation were taught and largely still believe they can achieve power within the system if they can make themselves indistinguishable from their white counterparts (college, job, football, Obama).
Jay teaches them to get the loot, be themselves and to get even more power. He teaches by doing.
Makes so much more sense than that latent NAACP shit. Don't you agree?
That's why educated blacks have to be careful attacking hip hop. It might actually be the path out of this trap the Civil Rights Negros led us.
DV said...
If appearing in a Hip Hop video is automatically degrading, why are thousands of women competing to do so?
Why are so many PEOPLE competing to qualify for welfare benefits?
Lack of resources, direction and opportunity (in some cases)
"Why are so many PEOPLE competing to qualify for welfare benefits?" Cookie
Come now Cookie. Isn't that just a bit oxymoronic?
One has to do badly to qualify for welfare. How can people compete to do badly?
Why don't you simply acknowledge that "hip hop video" come in many shapes and forms.
They are not one single deragotary monolith. Like all art, some is good and some is bad.
Before hip hop videos the only black women on TV regularly were Weezy Jefferson and That's My Momma.
Hip Hop has produced black female sex symbols and done much for the self-esteem of women previously ignored by the mass media.
If women were so "degraded" by hip hop they would be lining up to purchase India Arie instead of 50 Cent.
Stop projecting your issues with black men onto rap music.
Hey, I'm not suggesting that all hip hop videos are derogatory, just the ones like the 50 cent one you have on this site. There is a line between celebrating a woman's attractiveness and/or sexuality and using her as solely a tool for sex.
I'm just saying, there is an overabundance of blatant sexuality that is just simply low brow and lacking depth.
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