Democratic Candidates Say They're "OK" With Second-Grade Teacher Reading Gay Prince Fairy Tale
A fairy tale about two princes falling in love sparked a backlash — and a lawsuit — against a teacher and a school last year when it was read to a second-grade class in Massachusetts.Moderator Tim Russert asked John Edwards, Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton whether they’d be comfortable having the story — called “King & King” — read to their children in school.
But the three frontrunners in the Democratic presidential race suggested Wednesday night at their debate in New Hampshire that they’d support reading the controversial book to schoolchildren as part of a school curriculum.
Obama agreed with Edwards and revealed that his wife has already spoken to his 6- and 9-year-old daughters about same-sex marriage.
Clinton said she believes it’s up to parents to decide how to handle such topics, but added that it’s important to teach kids about the “many differences that are in the world.”
52 comments:
Here was Edwards' money quote -
“I don’t want to make that decision on behalf of my children,” he said. “I want my children to be able to make that decision on behalf of themselves, and I want them to be exposed to all the information, even in — did you say second grade? Second grade might be a little tough, but even in second grade to be exposed to all those possibilities, because I don’t want to impose my view. Nobody made me God.”
Is that not absurd?
Your kid's in second grade. Parents are probably making lots of decisions for their children, but when it comes to sexuality, John Edwards is openly stating that he thinks the judgment of the Nanny State is better than his own judgment as a parent.
What the hell is the matter with that guy?
Here are people saying that, in the name of diversity and tolerance, blah, blah, blah, they will let Big Government decide when and how sexuality will be taught to children. And then we wonder how we have a society of over-sexed, immature children having babies at 13.
One of the interesting and good turns that society has taken in the last couple of decades is that gay issues are in the open.
They have encounter discussion groups in Jr. High and High school now for interested parties.
Instead of the bad old days when these issues were treated much like the so called 'racial' issues were, now people are free to talk about what they think, and even how they want to act out.
Of course the sorts who portray things as having to coincide with their antique belief systems, or Islam, Christianity, etc. would like to strangle those elements, but, that is not going to happen, in the near future, because we live in what is mostly called a 'secular' society.
Secular means objective, neutral, non sectarian.
That type of society does not usually burn people at the stake intellectually or hang them either with religious mumbo jumbo concepts.
"And then we wonder how we have a society of over-sexed, immature children having babies at 13."
Probably because they did not have enough sex education.
I say show the them x rated movies in elementary school also.
Censorship only makes matters worse, and even more romantic to curious people.
Oh and Insurgent, What the hell is the matter with you ?
That type of society does not usually burn people at the stake intellectually or hang them either with religious mumbo jumbo concepts.
Nope, they only do that if someone questions the Holocaust or global warming.
This is completely ridiculous! All in the name of pandering to interest groups for votes!
I certainly would not want such a story read to my seven year old son! And I also would not want my son to think that such behavior is normal!
If some people are gay whether by choice or whatever, that is their business and I resent that they want to teach little children that this.
What is the big deal really? What issue, specifically, do you have with homosexuals, pardon me, homosexuality (wouldnt want to be accused of participating in identify politics)? I'd like to know.
The way I see it, there can only really be a few problems with the book.
1) You are concerned that teachers are being allowed to step into the shoes of parents with regard to teaching children about the realities of the would, i.e., that there are gay people among us. Response: dont sign the consent form for the "gay" unit at the school. Very simeple.
2) You are concerned that your children will be "turned" gay. Response: Too stupid to respond.
3) You are concerned that this book teaches kids that homosexuality is 'okay.' Response: follow up by telling your kid whatever the hell you want to tell them about gay people.
But the way I see, if your children walk down the street, turn on the TV and plain old live in this world, they are going to encounter a gay person. So whats wrong with a story that acknowledges this reality?
and as for the politicians, of course their responses were "political" and about generating or maintaining a constituency. Who's surprised at that?
Censorship only makes matters worse, and even more romantic to curious people.
Who's talking censorship? I'm talking parenting.
What the hell is the matter with you?
What the hell is the matter with you. This anything goes approach is producing a society of stupids. Perhaps you think that's cool, but second graders need to be learning how to write and add, not about same-sex couples.
Let parents teach them that shit. It's not the government's job to make our little ones into well-rounded, tolerant, diverse citizens.
What is the big deal really? What issue, specifically, do you have with homosexuals, pardon me, homosexuality.
No problem at all. But sexuality is a very fragile and delicate matter for all people. That is a topic that should be left for parents to tackle in the time and manner that they see fit. Why the State feels the need to usurp that role is what is troubling.
Meant "I resent that they want to teach little children this"
They can learn about sexual diversity later..homo, hetro, bi, beastiality, pedophilia, it's all good.
I'm with you Accra. It's too much to keep track of and understand as an adult, let alone as a 2nd grader.
"No problem at all. But sexuality is a very fragile and delicate matter for all people. That is a topic that should be left for parents to tackle in the time and manner that they see fit. Why the State feels the need to usurp that role is what is troubling." Insurgent.
The state ? You mean going to a school is considered the State ?
An ordinary education is considered being brain washed by the state ?
Well we may have a lousy education system in this country, but it is better than it was in some respects, and worse in others.
Better that people can talk about real issues now like sex and rights issues.
Sexuality is a very fragile thing ?
Huh ? Delicate ?
Not really, its like shaking hands with someone except you stick it in.
Accra
I certainly would not want such a story read to my seven year old son! And I also would not want my son to think that such behavior is normal!
Why not... Is it really that big a deal... But you will let them celebrate Halloween? Or walk right by a homeless person on the street begging for food I am sure? I am amazed at what people become so appalled by...
Robyn,
"2) You are concerned that your children will be "turned" gay. Response: Too stupid to respond."
Why? I think alot of these sick DL brothas started out hetero and got turned out.
This shit is disgusting. You'll see it differently when you become a parent. Trust me. I used to think like you.
II
What the hell is the matter with you. This anything goes approach is producing a society of stupids. Perhaps you think that's cool, but second graders need to be learning how to write and add, not about same-sex couples.
Says who?... How do you know what second graders should learn? Schools are made for teaching correct? So what's the problem. If you wish to avoid real life then teach your kids at home. Have them become possible social misfits. If you treat your kids like babies that's what they will be big babies. I have seen 4 year old kids from the most poverished dirt roads in the most poverished nations who would run circles around these pampered American kids. Humans adapt and learn at many different ages. The reason why this nation is so stupid is because the schools are not teaching real world issues. Dumbing down our society... Corporations are setting the agenda so that they have future workers to churn out more widgets.
II
No problem at all. But sexuality is a very fragile and delicate matter for all people. That is a topic that should be left for parents to tackle in the time and manner that they see fit. Why the State feels the need to usurp that role is what is troubling
You assume every kid has a responsible parent. Your living a pipe dream... Pass it along.
II
I'm with you Accra. It's too much to keep track of and understand as an adult, let alone as a 2nd grader.
Shoot... It wasn't for moi... Small brain maybe.
TSO
This shit is disgusting. You'll see it differently when you become a parent. Trust me. I used to think like you.
Why does what someone else does with their sex life without affecting you bother you so much!... No different than you being disgusting to a member of the KKK.
Well, Robyn, why not stories to 7 yr olds about all the "realities" in the world.
How about a story about the 13 yr old ho down the street fighting with the transexual drug dealer over crack.
7 yr old are like sponges they soak everything in and I can think of more useful information for my son than a story of two homosexual kings.
As to whether it would make my son gay, well that depends on whether one thinks that "gayness is nature or nuture.
I don't think that there is any solid scientific evidence to fully support either.
At the appropriate time, my son will learn about the realities in the world.
And, I do believe that some young men engage in homosexual sex because they believe it's ok or cool, or a quick way to make some money etc. etc.
Well I will be honest and say that I would be quite devasteted if for any reason my son turned in that way! As would a lot of mothers if they are honest with themselves!
The state? You mean going to a school is considered the State?
An ordinary education is considered being brain washed by the state?
Um, duh, who the hell runs the school system? Who dictates the educational standards, mandatory testing, curriculum? It's not called "public" education for no reason.
Ok Mr. Technocracy who hates everything about our current system coming to the defense of a huge component of the current system.
Casper,
So as Accra points out, are you going to read bedtime stories to your 7-year-old about the crack ho up the street fighting with her transsexual pimp? You know, it's important you teach your kids about reality so they don't become social misfits. Maybe you and your wife should have sex in front of them too. That's real life. Better they learn young.
To the point about the crack ho. Ya'll kill me with the extremes but anyway. Of course, No, you dont tell your child about a "crack ho." But you damn sure better tell them about "drugs" and "drug addicts" and the "bad things" that drugs can cause people to do, "including you if you try them". When theyre 14 you tell them about "crack ho's and pimps."
But the way I see, if your children walk down the street, turn on the TV and plain old live in this world, they are going to encounter a gay person. So whats wrong with a story that acknowledges this reality?
I dunno who's talking extremes Robyn. I'm only running with what you and Casper have suggested about the need to red bedtime stories to our kids about "reality".
exactly, "running with."
Robyn said...
"What is the big deal really? What issue, specifically, do you have with homosexuals, pardon me, homosexuality (wouldnt want to be accused of participating in identify politics)? I'd like to know."
Not a bad post Robyn. Well organized. Sequential. Logical.
But not particularly original. It's nearly a verbatim copy of the talking points issued by GLAAD via their website.
What you failed to consider in your inaccurate list of projective motives regarding my objections to this story is the counterfeit nature of the issue.
It's a manufactured issue Robyn.
How did your mom feel about Gay Schoolbooks when you were a kid?
Exactly.
She didn't. It wasn't an issue when you were a kid.
Like gay marriage, this is a talking point that will later be used to justify changing the rules of society to look the way these propagandists want it to look.
My objection is not homosexuality. I couldn't care less. My objection is being force-fed propaganda.
Of all the FUCKING QUESTIONS to ask a candidate for president of the UNITED STATES in 2008 - Tim Russert asks if "they support gay school books for kids"?
Icecaps melting. Verge Nuclear war. & Gay Schoolbooks.
GTFOH
The key propaganda technique is to create issues and manage the debate by creating good guys and bad guys and victims.
Darfur.
Gays.
Iraq.
Iran.
Same Manufactured Issues.
Saving women to invade Iran. Saving homosexual children to invade your home.
"2) You are concerned that your children will be "turned" gay. Response: Too stupid to respond."
Um um um.
Funny thing, these "Gay Rules"
Gays have become a religion one can't "question" any more than one can question the Holocaust.
People get uptight. Like you questioned the historical Jesus.
Notice that even relatively recent Christians have been so propagandized that they will take offense to a challenge to gays more than they will a challenge to God.
Skip routinely talks about God and scripture and Jesus and Buddha like they are crack heads who owe him money.
Not a peep.
Question some Queer propaganda and:
"What's Your Problem With Homosexuals!"
LOL. nah
But anyway regarding the question of whether gays are nature or nurtured.
I say both.
The number of male humans born homosexual is probably roughly equivalent to the number of male horses born homosexual.
The rest is a reaction to their environment.
Blashphemy!!!!
Where's Skip?
The Secular High Priest from the Technocracy Sect.
Tell us about herd of gay horses running wild in Nevada.
DV. You sure do spend a lot of time opining about homosexuality for the issue to 'not really be about homosexuality.'
GTFOOH!
If your critique was of Tim Russert, you could have fooled the hell out of me. and apparently the others persons who chose to respond to the post.
But to your point about 'gay issues' being manufactured issues, simply because they werent issues in the past, I say "And?"
what does that man. Homosexuals should just keep on doing what they been doing? Dont ask Dont tell, DV? Is that a lowered level of 'propaganda' with which you'd be more comfortable?
Meanwhile, the book is banned from the local elementary school and your children, along with Accra's son, come home talking about Johnny's two moms and Billy's two dads.
I presume yall will tell the kids just keep thinking whatever it was you were thinking when Robyn was in 2nd grade.
Salient plan!
To use Jasai's phrase, PICK A LANE DV!
For real.
Which is it?
You couldnt care less about homosexuality and you were really calling Tim Russert on the carpet, your comments the pst didnt really have anything to do with homosexuality specifically or.....
"Gays have become a religion one can't "question" any more than one can question the Holocaust."
"Question some Queer propaganda and....."
Did I already say GTFOOH?! just checking.
there's a typo, but you get it.
Nah Robyn.
For me this aint no speculation.
When my little man came home talking about some boy in the third grade who said he was gay.
I told them there are people out there who want you to view the world in a way that is advantageous to them. In ways that may make you weak. You are going to hear many different things about men and women and children and sex and God.
You must be careful because how you see things shapes your world. Your mother and I believe that's why God gave you parents. To help guide you. So I'm going to teach you what my daddy taught me and his daddy taught him. Cool with you? My man.
How the hell is a 3rd grader gay? He hasn't even gone through puberty. Geez.
A 3rd grader wouldn't know he's straight, but already knows he's gay? Already knows what it means to be gay? And we're not manufacturing them?
I don't follow Robyn.
I don't understand your indignation.
Help me out.
With what do you disagree?
I'm all ears, because I'm curious.
(I would have bet anybody cash money that Robyn and I would be on the same side of this issue.)
The source of my indignation (and it really aint that serious but i'll go with it) is as follows:
1) I dont understand why the book is such a big deal given that it is only a product of what can be seen live and in color every day.
2) Beyond the book however, perhaps this should have been number one, you criticize the hell out of homosexuals, but then when u get called on it, you throw your hands up like Nixon, and start taking that bullshit about how you couldnt care less about homosexuals and you just think its a frivolous issue to raise to presidential candidates."
If you take the position that its wrong, unnatural and morally abhorrant -- do so. Dont type opinion upon opinion that makes it very clearly that you hold such an opinion and then say "this aint about homosexuals"
3) You take issue with propaganda based opinions, (which, by the way, only seem to be properly identified by you) but then fail to see other potential sources of propaganda, i.e., American women have fallen for the oakey doke, but muslim women are now the poster women for freedom almightly.
[side note, while I'm calling you out on Muslim women, I might as well call Insurgent out too. Currently, muslim women are free to do whatever. Several months back, you took issue with muslim men (i think it was on TSO) for being controlling and chauvenistic. Pick a lane, home girl. And just so you know I tried to find the arhcive, but couldnt.]
So there it is, at least in part. Did that help?
I don't need to argue that Muslim women are free to do what they want. What I argue and always have is that non-Muslim women should mind their MF'ing business and quit trying to tell other women of the world how to live.
That a bunch of emotionally stunted, dikey, White bitches who can't find a man need to butt the hell out of other women's business. Our men are our business and their mysogeny will be handled within the family. Not by a bunch of cunts like Gloria Steinem who could care less about Muslim women or men.
Whether muslim women should aspire to be like american women is not the point II, the point was that you NOW seem to view muslim women as free, in the past you certainly did not and made comments to that effect.
You can interpret my comments as you wish. If you read them to "seem" to view Muslim women as free, that's your prejudice because I don't even think such an argument is necessary to make. I've acknowledged mysogeny among Muslim men many times over. I'm aware of my past arguments. That doesn't negate the hypocrisy of a bunch of American women trying to make it their business. Bitches in glass houses...
I can't even imagine the level of indignation you would experience if White feminists all of a sudden started holding conferences about the status of Black women in the Black community, started finding Black women to put on tv to tell of how her man beat her, abandoned her, etc. and used it to justify why it's ok to label Black men criminal and throw Black men in jail.
Oh, they're already doing that. It's the attack on hip hop. And just like I call bullshit on that, I call bullshit on the attempt to USE Muslim women against Muslim men.
"And just like I call bullshit on that, I call bullshit on the attempt to USE Muslim women against Muslim men."
I dont have a dog in that fight so no response as to the substance from me. I can read, however, and noted a change in your perspective from several months back.
Good reality check through out this thread by Robyn, and Casper.
Sexual topics drive the religiously stunted member brainwashed on drivel up the wall.
"You must be careful because how you see things shapes your world. Your mother and I believe that's why God gave you parents. To help guide you. So I'm going to teach you what my daddy taught me and his daddy taught him. Cool with you? My man."
D.V. is a traditionalist, and not aware of the actual history of Religion, and where many of the brainwash concepts about sex, and people control come from.
D.V. is hard at work on the fake spiritual plantation working for the man to enhance the man.
So he is working for a group of liars that found if they inculcated certain fake 'virtues', they could increase the heard by pimping the ideas (catholics) etc.
Insurgent pouncing on a small comment I made about the education system.
Am I defending it ?
No.
I am saying that the shitty old days when nothing was out in the open are gone.
Sexuality is a very fragile thing ?
Huh ? Delicate ?
Not really, its like shaking hands with someone except you stick it in. Ha ha.
Robyn,
You sure you not just lawyerin' me? Because I'm not aware of any 'preponderance of homosexual commentary and hate" that you suggest. I look around the blog and see everything from Marwan Barghouti to Haile Selassie to Karyn Calabrese to Jay-Z to Pranayama Breathing to Bob Marley To Gay Teens (which is actually a subset of the war) to George Galloway to Jena to John Henrik Clarke to Shibumi to Jesse to Castro to Robeson to my Great Grand Mother Harris.
Now if you can point out a preponderance of editorial on homosexuals, I'm all ears.
If not, I'd be interested in why you would say something like that.
Here's a thought.
Recharacterizing the questioning of gay propaganda as "attacks on homosexuals" is eerily similar to the recharacterization of all questions about the holocaust as "attacks on Jews".
If they got you Robyn, they good.
Because I'm not aware of any 'preponderance of homosexual commentary and hate" that you suggest.
Trick Dick.
I'm floored.
Cant even respond.
Tricky Dick. (as in Nixon). My bad on the typo.
Still can respond.
damn. 'Cant' respond.
I can read, however, and noted a change in your perspective from several months back.
Definitely. A greater sensitivity not to perpetuate the propaganda. Seeing how destructively the anti-hip-hop agenda has been has been quite illuminating as to how men and women of other communities are being divided and conquered.
A neocon was babbling a while back about how to subdue the Middle East and he said that the way to accomplish it was to "get to their women."
Alarm bells go off.
The manufactured attack on rap music is exactly the same thing.
Sexuality is a very fragile thing?
Huh ? Delicate ?
Not really, its like shaking hands with someone except you stick it in. Ha ha.
Just like shaking hands? You are either a virgin or a complete junkie porn star unable to appreciate sex. I don't know about you, but sex is far more enjoyable than shaking hands and that's why it doesn't happen with just anyone.
By your definition, there is absolutely no difference between humans and other animals, which I'm sure you'll say there isn't. And that's ok Skip. But I see no need for technocracy and energy credits for a bunch of zebras fucking on the Serengete.
You sure you not just lawyerin' me? Because I'm not aware of any 'preponderance of homosexual commentary and hate" that you suggest.
D.V.
Now you are bullshitting totally.
Is there a theme of dumbed down religious related anxiety about women, and sex, and fear of gays, and control of behavior of women, and moralistic statements about what is good and bad in regard to personal choice, etc...
I would say so. Yes, and without a doubt.
Insurgent you may not see a need for energy credits which is as I have said, not a component of our plan. Its (energy accounting using energy certificates), for Zebras or others.
Honestly you sound kind of stoned.
Either that, you must have had a really bad day.
Humans are animals.
Not Zebras though.
Sex is sex, and not some thing that was laid out in the bible or its spin off books.
'"I don't know about you, but sex is far more enjoyable than shaking hands and that's why it doesn't happen with just anyone. "
Did I say it did ?
You must have your significant other twisted right around your finger.
I suppose you will get a divorce if you caught him kissing another ?
Ha ha. Control freak.
I'm not having a bad day. This has been the best source of amusement I've had all day in an otherwise mundane day at work. LOL!!
And Skip, thank you for all who you are. If you didn't exist, we'd have to manufacture a Skip. Just to illustrate the absurdity of those who equate sex with shaking hands.
I realize you hate marriage and that's why you take pot shots at me and my husband, but I know you secretly wonder what it would be like. You're like that orphan looking in the window of the home where the family is opening Christmas gifts, envious at the joy they experience.
Wow, are you barking up the wrong tree.
I don`t envy you or any one else.
I am cool with me.
I never said I hated marriage, just that it is for suckers mostly, that want a legal contract of slavery over their civil partner. Thats a little different.
I hope you and hubby are doing well and actually I hope you all are shaking hands a lot.
Oh and I don`t celebrate Christmas.
Tell an Eskimo that it is not a good idea to offer their wife to an interesting stranger, and you may become persona non grata.
I am guessing that the Eskimo women had a major 'hand' in coming to this interesting cultural practice.
It probably does seem a little unrelated to your life though.
Shake on it.
I can't even imagine the level of indignation you would experience if White feminists all of a sudden started holding conferences about the status of Black women in the Black community, started finding Black women to put on tv to tell of how her man beat her, abandoned her, etc. and used it to justify why it's ok to label Black men criminal and throw Black men in jail.
Dina,
Michael has documented this process fairly extensively at the Assault - well worth checking out if you haven't already done so. He's caught more flak and generated more controversy by taking this on than any other issue I've observed in the course of our acquaintance.
That was one of the best posts of Fisher's I've read. It appears that the campaign to divide Black men from Black women has been underway for quite some time.
Robin doesn't seem to realize that she has proven Demark's point. He says he is rejecting propaganda. She accuses him of hating homosexuals. Clever catch 22. Notice she doesnt' say the fairy tale is not propaganda. Where does she get the idea that he hates homosexuals because he doesn't want propaganda forced on his kids? I don't want it forced on my child either. Do I hate homosexuals now?
Welcome to the discussion Jarvis. According to the warped, propagandized definition of homophobia peddled these days, yes, you hate homosexuals too. LOL!! :-)
Jarvis, stick around, we'll discuss our respectives at length if you do. Welcome.
Robyn
Post a Comment