“I just couldn’t do it. It’s weird. After this guy proposed to me, I was like, dang, this is everything a woman lives for: to be married, with a ring, to be able to represent something. But for me, it was the opposite. I was scared. When you get married, you become one; you don’t live just for yourself anymore. I’m just not ready for that. I’m not done with my goals in life. What’s the word when you just kind of fall back and let your man do the man thing? Submit? I’m all jacked up on that word. I just couldn’t submit. But I loved him. That’s the crazy thing about it. It’s been hard because I really missed that child.”Notice the headline at the top: "Kim Porter On Why She Left Sean "Diddy" Combs And Loving Herself"
Have the FemiNazis finally succeeded in convincing black women they would be more happy without men the same way they convinced so many white women over the years? This type of propaganda is far more destructive to black families than any music video.
I gotta give you credit.Ya'll some interesting, diverse, and introspective women. But I'm gonna give you a quick dose of man.
Keisha Cole is frontin'. Aint no grown black woman walk away from a marriage proposal - from a man she loves - "because she is not comfortable with the concept of marriage".
GTFOH Keisha.
You might have had some other issues with dude. But women, particularly black women, aint built like that. It is fashionable (ala Kim Porter) for women to craft these Oh So Evolved - I'm not ready for marriage yet - statements.
Kim. You got 4 kids. What, you gotta be a grandmother before you say "I do"? You been with Puffy for 15 years. If not him, who?
Keisha, Kim and Essence are regurgitating the feminist mantra of "I don't need no man" because it sells records and it sells magazines.
48 comments:
DV, the so called 'Feminazi's' didn't have to step forward to any of that...a lot of women particularly black women have grown up in single parent households and do not see anything wrong with that. They also may never have seen a dual parent household in action. Her fear may just be coming from the unknown and the fact that she has never had a model of which role to play. That can be a very scary thought...walking blindly into the unknown.
Sista Soteria,
I fully agree with you. Bonding with a mate is incredibly scary. As is the alternative of not ever bonding permanently.
However, I submit to you, that if we examine the messages broadcast to our generation about marriages from TV to movies, from music to academia, to articles in magazines like Essence, the message has been that happiness can be found by "doing oneself".
Divorce is almost a right of passage. From Sex and the City to Desperate Housewives the propaganda is clear: "Marriage is misery, being single is freedom."
If marriage were promoted at least as much as "going to college" was promoted (and supported) maybe we wouldn't have that repetitive cycle of divorce, broken families and lonely people.
(You still "Thoroughly disappointed" in me and Big J, and our apparent endorsement of male infidelity? I hope we cleared that up. You made me feel bad. ;- ]
Yes I am still thoroughly disappointed in your comments....no I didn't get that cleared up in my mind...I think I stopped reading the responses cause I was getting too emotional....
Maybe I missed something but to me by saying that a man will cheat for reasons other than emotional (which is supposed to make it better I guess?!?) and that he can still love his wife and be commited to the relationship - is a cop out! Then I believe that you and J go on to say that women need to understand this fact and work at keeping the relationship together. It all smells of strong, stinky bull s#$t!!!!
In my mind your comments further reinforce the idea of what Keshia and so many of the 'FemNazi's' are talking about. Contrary to what men may think...adultery whether it is emotional or not is VERY PAINFUL. It makes a woman feel that she is less than and not good enough. I think it is empowering to women to say "no I dont need you to have a child, I don't need you to pay my bills, I don't need you to protect me....I need you to HONOR, LOVE, AND RESPECT ME." A relationship should not be solely a business arrangement - it should be based on love, honor and mutual respect. So many men want women to stay in a submissive capacity but vey often they misuse that and take advantage of it because they know the woman will not leave if she is financially and otherwise dependent on her spouse. I think that is what 'woman's lib' is really about... BEING HAPPY and not simply having the facade of happiness in the form of a family and a cheating husband. If your man is going to cheat on you, then what is the point? Might as well stay single...
I don't think there is any justification for infidelity. As Soteria said, only bullshit reasons.
I think Keisha Cole's sentiments represent a lot of young Black woman today (unfortunately). Woman today are not like woman 30 years ago. When it comes to submitting, a lot of today's woman won't even consider such a proposal. They want equal footing with the man in a marriage. I'm all for the traditional marriage where the husband is appointed the head of the household, period. That doesn't mean he's a boss or general barking orders. It means he is the leader of his household, and the wife should respect his leadership. A lot of woman today grew up in single female parent households and have no examples of successful marriages to pattern and little respect for men.
they are afraid because they don't know how (have rarely if ever seen it done; right or wrong) and so do not wish to miserably fail.
this can be corrected with teaching, listening, patience and love.
-jasai
Chill, DV.
She said she wasn't ready yet. Sounds like she wants to enter a marriage as a whole person which is not such a bad idea. If more men and women would take the time to explore themselves and grow and mature, we wouldn't have the high divorce rate that plagues our community.
You know what's amazing about all this talk of submission, isn't the real question not about submission, but to whom we shall submit?
With very few exceptions, most people will "submit" to someone else's authority at some point in their lives.
What's so flawed about the feminist mantra is that they define submission in the context of marriage a disgusting, personal defect, but they say nothing about submitting to the welfare state, submitting to your employer, submitting to them as the high priestesses of liberation as any less demeaning or degrading.
Because I have yet to see a career woman who wasn't submitting (and I don't mean in a sexual way) to someone else's authority, whether it was the politics of other partners in a law firm or the dealings of a board of directors.
Feminists don't mind the concept of submission. They just want to dictate to women those to whom they should submit.
amen.
THANK YOU Kalena.
What does it mean to be "whole"
Who is a great example of having been or become "whole" before they got married?
What does that "wholeness" guarantee?
I’m not knocking the premise, just suggesting it is flawed based on my experience.
Marriage is an elixir. If you drink it, it will change you. Not matter who you are when you take that first sip.
LOL Jasai!!
I used to think I was "whole" before I got married. Now that I'm married, I realize I wasn't even half. :-)
when i refer to whole, i mean a person that has taken the time to get to know themselves (As much as a single person can) and is entering the union without excess baggage.
"i wish i would've pursued xyz" = baggage
not having a working understanding of submission = baggage
in my unmarried opinion
I don't knock this concept of getting to know yourself, but it is very limited in terms of guidance for marriage.
There is a saying that you never step in the same river twice. The limitation with this notion of "knowing yourself" is that, if you are emotionally healthy, you will evolve and become a different self everyday.
You shouldn't be the same person at 30 that you were at 20. Or something is very wrong.
There were so many things I was certain of when I was single that have officially been thrown out the window now that I'm married and preparing to have a family.
Perhaps I knew myself when I was single, but that woman is gone and I'm getting to know a whole new woman who is married to a wonderful man I get to know better and better each day.
"not having a working understanding of submission = baggage"
that would make submitting in a marriage tougher, but where would one learn that otherwise?
this is why women need to observe, trust and communicate, one with another.
there are answers to these questions and not being afraid to do the thing that is seemingly "against what you know" is the first step to getting these answers and the end-game results you seek.
from me it's all love and no sugar top-coats. marriage is work and there is no prep course. only class. teachers teaching. students listening. and trust that the highest power within and about you, continues to lead you in the right direction.
I think i learned from a combination of (in this order) my dad, my mother, church, the bible, non-fiction reading, male friends, female friends
A woman should NOT be hearing the term 'submit' for the first time after taking her vows. That's foolish at best!
My point is that there are some JACKED UP people out here that think getting married is the cure to what ails them.
People are afraid to ride in their cars alone with the music off! These people do not have what it takes to be married. In my unmarried opinion.
I'm not talking about being on some monk-type stuff when i say 'learn yourself', but it is very important for a person to be like 'i know who i am' and MEAN it BEFORE they get married.
Someone that knows who they are will not follow and get addicted to drugs WITH her husband. She will stand by him and help and encourage him to get healing.
This is the type of thing i'm speaking to.
got it.
People are afraid to ride in their cars alone with the music off! These people do not have what it takes to be married.
Preach!! That is so true.
Ima try and ride home without the phone and the music off this evening. I'll likely feel like an idiot, but I'll try and report tomorrow.
Robyn,
Do you do yoga?
i'm with you robyn!
LOL Robyn and Jasai!
I will have a hard time believing either of you two struggle when put in a room (or moving vehicle) alone with just you and your thoughts.
That's the basis of the car/music off statement.
Please do report your findings though!
I love it!
This should be interesting. My commute, now that school has resumed, is 45-50 minutes. Also, the drive home is usually when I talk on the phone. So this will take some effort.
oh, i was noting that robyn will be in my thoughts. I just returned from sevn days of complete silence and 11.5 hours a day of meditation.
at home i sit for at least 45 minutes daily. I experience enough silence to fill up a soccer stadium.
Pd
Your one of the reasons many women are not jumping to get married any time soon.
"When it comes to submitting, a lot of today's woman won't even consider such a proposal. They want equal footing with the man in a marriage."
And what exactly is wrong with this? Submissive is done on both the part of the man and the woman when you talk about marriage. Why shouldn't a women demand equal footing and why should a man demand otherwise?
"I'm all for the traditional marriage where the husband is appointed the head of the household, period."
No less sh*tty then women who who demand to be the head the household.
"That doesn't mean he's a boss or general barking orders. It means he is the leader of his household, and the wife should respect his leadership."
He's the leader? Elaborate... you mean the relationship should be like a boss-employee/ teacher-student relationship? Hogwash!!!!
"A lot of woman today grew up in single female parent households and have no examples of successful marriages to pattern and little respect for men"
I hope you are not implying that those who do not subscribe to your ideal marriage arrangement (man as head) do not have an ideal example of what a successful marriage can be.
thought so too Jasai.
Why shouldn't a women demand equal footing and why should a man demand otherwise?
What does equal mean? Men and women are different. That doesn't make one inferior to the other.
Are you confusing these concepts? We aren't equal in ability or interests. So we come together and combine our strengths and grow together. If we were equals, i.e. the same, I'd be married to myself. How boring! LOL! :-)
He's the leader? Elaborate... you mean the relationship should be like a boss-employee/ teacher-student relationship? Hogwash!!!!
My husband leads on some things. I lead on others. It depends on what we are dealing with. It ain't like boss-employee or any of the others. It's like husband-wife, which is infinitely better.
Your one of the reasons many women are not jumping to get married any time soon.
No, women who aren't mature enough to see marriage as a partnership instead of as a competition are the reason many women aren't getting married.
Keisha, Kim and Essence are regurgitating the feminist mantra of "I don't need no man" because it sells records and it sells magazines.
-DV
did you just say that these women are selling Bullisht messages and unskillful lifestyles just to sell records and magazines?
say it ain't so!
The difference, Dear Lady Jasai,
(You got me smilin')
Is that Keisha don't even believe her bullshit. Jigga believes Jigga. Tupac believed Tupac. And thus we did too.
If it works ... it is not bullshit.
"What does equal mean?"
You tell me.
"Men and women are different."
We know.
"That doesn't make one inferior to the other."
Who claimed such a thing?
"Are you confusing these concepts?"
No are you?
"We aren't equal in ability or interests. So we come together and combine our strengths and grow together. If we were equals, i.e. the same, I'd be married to myself. How boring! LOL! :-)"
Again, tell us something we don't know? Who's denying this?
"My husband leads on some things. I lead on others. It depends on what we are dealing with. It ain't like boss-employee or any of the others. It's like husband-wife, which is infinitely better."
So then there is no "leader" in your marriage and/ or more so you guys lead according to your respective abilities. Pd is saying something different so what why the need to put your two cents in?
"No, women who aren't mature enough to see marriage as a partnership instead of as a competition are the reason many women aren't getting married."
Hogwash. Do away with your blanket statement. One can easily say the exact same thing to Pd (and many men) with his beliefs regarding who the leader "ought" be.
What have you said of value?
What have YOU said of value?
This is all you've got? Some punk ass whiney question to try to put me on the defensive? LOL! Is this Fisher, with the Socratic dialectic?
oh it's working.....
all of it. people are believing it, and as a result we have the kind of conversations we read here and the behavior and consequences we see in our communities.
(smile)
[and don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining: the brotha's believe their BS and the sista's don't and THAT'S the difference. please! that just makes the brotha's completely friggin' delusional.]
wow Anonymous...so much animosity. Did you grow up in a single female parent household?
"This is all you've got? Some punk ass whiney question to try to put me on the defensive?"
No II your response was a punk ass whiney rebuttal to which you realized that you have added nothing of substance. I especially loved your last paragraph because it only spoke to how much of an "intellectual" lightweight you really are.
"LOL! Is this Fisher, with the Socratic dialectic?"
I'm not M.f. so tell Denamrk to trace the IP address. Your silence to my response only speaks of you.
Pd
No animosity. If your marriage (if you are married) is working well, then good for you. Just realize that logically your argument (some of it was opinionated so you're entitled to hold, others was presented off as "truth") holds no weight.
Pd why the animosity on your part form females demanding equal footing in marriage?
Anon, I didn't even realize that I had stepped into your squabble with Pd. Your snotty responses made no sense until Pd responded. LOL!!
In any event, how would a female know she had received the equal footing she demands? What exactly does equal footing look like? Doesn't the act of demanding equality already make her subservient, as if her equality is dependent upon a grant from her man?
Everything I said was an opinion except for the last sentence. I was raised in the south in a traditional family where the mother and father played different roles. There is no animosity. To each his own. I just can't be with a woman that has penis envy.
II
"Your snotty responses made no sense until Pd responded. LOL!!"
My response made no sense because you didn't think before you wrote. Go back and re-read what you wrote "Intellectual" Insurgent.
II
"In any event, how would a female know she had received the equal footing she demands? What exactly does equal footing look like? Doesn't the act of demanding equality already make her subservient, as if her equality is dependent upon a grant from her man?"
Now who's the one asking all the questions like Micheal Fisher? Re-read what I posted and how you responded, if you are really an "intellect" you'll see that this last passage should more so be directed at Pd, not me.
What exactly are you trying to get across? Or did you simply feel like conversating? LOL!
Oh goodness, it must be that I just felt like conversating, especially when someone with your giant intellect steps into the discussion and elevates in the way you have.
Pd
"I just can't be with a woman that has penis envy."
A women requesting equal footing in a marriage does not equate to penis envy. Though I do believe that a man demanding leadership role in a marriage is suffering from penis envy.
In any event I stand to be corrected, what you said originally was entirely opinionated {no such thing as a wrong opinion only erroneous reasoning which I believe would surface if you had laid out your reasoning} albeit the last sentence which I agree with.
"...especially when someone with your giant intellect steps into the discussion and elevates in the way you have."
Right II
Especially since your name Intellectual Insurgent is oxymoronic at best.
Now since I don't feel like squabbling with you, I take it that you re-read the original post and entirely confused yourself?
Are you still talking?
I've read all your stuff and it's nonsense. It's the defensive rants of a 15-year-old who has never been loved.
I realize that you need massive amounts of attention (because you obviously can't find a man), but you can get it elsewhere. I am sure that with your genius, there are men beating down your door to debate the merits of women demanding equal footing.
"Are you still talking"
Are you "Intellectual" (an intellectual whose been previously been identified as a racist, liberal Arab- is such a thing possible?).
"I've read all your stuff and it's nonsense. It's the defensive rants of a 15-year-old who has never been loved."
15? Nah. Nonsense defensive rant is what YOUR original post to me was about. I guess you realized this which is why you never followed up with what you originally posted.
"I realize that you need massive amounts of attention (because you obviously can't find a man), but you can get it elsewhere. I am sure that with your genius, there are men beating down your door to debate the merits of women demanding equal footing."
No man? LOL! Listen to your stupidity. A woman who demands equal footing cannot get a man. GTFOH! The typical anti-feminist male resort (then again you are simply a clone of DV- only not as bright as him). I guess a man who demands to be the head of a household can neither get a woman too!!! Follow through Dina... you're losing grip!
"A wise man said don't argue with fools cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"...
It is intellectually lazy to start throwing personal insults instead of dealing with substance...choose not to engage and retain your personal power.
By the way...I think the whole point is to love yourself enough to not be totally dependent on someone else for your happiness...
By the way...I think the whole point is to love yourself enough to not be totally dependent on someone else for your happiness..." Soteria
I think the point is to love someone else enough not to be totally dependent on yourself for growth.
Anon,
You've done nothing but walk into this discussion and hurl insults. I would happily have this discussion, as I do daily with the rest of the people here, if you weren't so nasty. You really need to go have a drink, enjoy dinner and come back when you're ready to settle down and be an adult.
DV,
What I meant by my statement is that we need to realize that we cannot have our attachments in life based solely on people because people die, people let you down, people leave...
you have got to have enough mental security where you don't NEED another person to survive...you WANT THEM, YOU LOVE THEM, THEY MEAN THE WORLD TO YOU....but if they got left you...there would be something left - YOU - and that is enough.
I hear you Soteria. I understood you the first time. That's cool. You are not wrong. There are often several different roads to the same place.
I happen to think we need ... to need each other.
One cannot just choose to "not need" because needing is risky.
All roads are require walking through risk and pain.
Not needing anyone is risky too.
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