None of that diminishes that fact that he KNEW she was a youngin'. He's a grown man who lives a life of indulgence without limits. You can’t transfer the blame to this GIRL who is MOST likely wrought with serious problems. R Kelly is no different than the average pedophile, he can just afford representation. And since he can afford atty's, he can afford THERAPY.
F**k it, he can flip another booty song. And I’m gonna buy it ;-)
Yes, consent requires a minimal emotional maturity. Agreed that there are 40-year-olds who should be on a leash (well said), but most 15-year-olds don't have the maturity to safely drive a car, let alone have crazy sex.
I'll be the first to admit that 18 and 21 are arbitrary lines in the sand to mark as ages of maturity for certain things, but there are good reasons why everything from contract law to criminal law distinguishes between kids and grown ups.
Paradoxically too, I wouldn't be so bothered if the boy was 15-years old, but the difference in ages and her youth are troubling.
Not sure what the alternative is. Do we lower the age of consent? Abolish it altogether? Perhaps we measure maturity by cognitive development - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
I agree that somethings are "for adults." Like contracts. And I agree that RKelly is a pedophile. However, generally speaking, regarding sexual behavior, I think we are lying to ourselves if we think that kids under 18 arent KNOWINGLY charging full speed ahead. Obviously, there are cases where children are being manipulated and taken advantage of. And obviously, there are repurcussions from sex (like pregnancy) that someone 18 yo is not equipped to deal with, but IMO, that doesnt change the reality that kids under 18 are CHOOSING to "do it" - consistently and repeatedly so. When I was in high school from 93-96, I had TWO friends sleeping with guys that were of age. Under traditional theories, these guys were playing with fire in terms of potential Stat Rape cases. In reality, I had two hot ass friends who knew what they were doing and actively sought out ways to do so.
When I did it - before 18 - I knew what was going on!
Kids just arent as innocent and shielded as they once were is all I'm saying.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
I'd bet there are 12-year-olds pushing full steam ahead too, but it wouldn't be ok for R. Kelly to pee on them either. :-) Is it really relevant if the 15-year-old is going full speed ahead? Presumably, pedophiles who hunt kids on the internet are finding kids who knowingly participate, but does that doesn't make it ok.
The question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing. Perhaps a good analogy is criminal law. Is a 15-year-old who robs a liquor store the equivalent of a 30-year-old who does? If so, then 15-year-olds should be subject to the same punishments. If not, why?
Do we abolish the distinction between child and adult and tailor laws to the maturity of each person? Which I am not saying is necesarily wrong.
Re: the origins of stat. rape, here's what I found on Wikipedia. Interesting that it raises all the issues that you and I have brought up -
And real quick re: the stat rape policy link, many of the stated justifications are no longer valid in this day and age, i.e., access to birthcontrol, this one sticks out in my mnd.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
Amazing question Robyn. Damn. You get points. (I thought you were slippin' lately too)
I'll bet you the "Stat Rape Laws" just like the so called "domestic violence laws" can also be traced back to ... excuse me D ... the anti-family secular feminist public policy that has been waging a war on heterosexuality for a long time.
DV, your point is well taken. It's going to take a minute to decide, though, whether as a rule I think it should be legal for a 30-year-old to pee on a kid. :-)
Is there no protection for any children? What if a 7-year-old says ok?
Slippery slope ya'll... Things are possible until it's your 12 y.o. daughter with a 40 y.o. man... Then you have a murder case. There is a reason why society gravitates to certain policy. Victims/participants must be party to your debate to understand the full spectrum of this topic.
i will kill a muthafucka. i feel ike there must be some weed smokin' going on in this discussion. wouldn't you rather call it a crime and arrest the stank adult than have someone tell you your 13 yo daughter said yes and so all bets are off? cause then, like somebody said, you got murder.
i was having sex LOOOONG before it was credible to be doing so and i know now that what i said, and what I "knew" about what I was saying was about as far apart as Turkey and Texas.
if we don't protect our babies, who will. and i mean even the one we don't give birth/life to.
"Oh Shit! ... GMO Food Sterilizes People ... And It's Really A Form of Population Control?"
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
INTELLECTUAL INSURRECTIONISTS
Alexander King, Bertrand Schneider - founder Club of Rome - The First Global Revolution, pp.104-105
"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."
Were We All Kunta Kinte? Or Are We Also Mansa Musa?
Plantation Negros & The New World Order
Illuminati Want My Mind Soul & My Body - A DV Joint
Barry Goldwater 1909-1998
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. "
Robert Mugabe Speaks To Thunderous Approval At Harlem's Mount Olive Baptist Church
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad
"It Is Easier To Change A Man's Religion Than It Is To Change His Diet"
Private Prison Industry
2,000,000 human beings in American prisons and counting
IS THIS LITTLE GUY A PERSON?
The founders of the American state understood that the proper functioning of a democracy required an educated electorate. It is this understanding that justifies a system of public education and that led slaveholders to resist the spread of literacy among their chattels. But the meaning of "educated" has changed beyond recognition in two hundred years. Reading, writing, and arithmetic are no longer sufficient to decide on public policy. Now we need quantum mechanics and molecular biology. The knowledge required for political rationality, once available to the masses, is now in the possession of a specially educated elite, a situation that creates a series of tensions and contradictions in the operation of representative democracy.
Greater Display of Conspicuous Consumption?
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. P
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
Louis Pasteur
"The Microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything."
A DV JOINT
Ask Denmark Vesey
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Chris Hedges Warns of The Dangers of The "New Atheists" and "Secular Fundamentalists"
Beverly Johnson. Beverly Hills. 1978
Do You Consider Yourself:
"Bra! Tell Me About It!"
"Most of the trouble I have had in advancing the cause of the race has come from Negroes."
Is President Barack Hussein Obama The Driving Force Behind US Policy?
Ted Turner - CNN founder and UN supporter - quoted in the The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor, June '
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
Lord Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science On Society (Routledge Press: New York, 1951).
"At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 per diem. War, so far, has had no very great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars.. War has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove effective. If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. The state of affairs might be unpleasant, but what of it?"
Denmark Vesey For President 08
1. Troops Out Of Iraq Immediately. Like By Monday. 2. Money Owed To Haliburton and War Contractors Be Given Directly To The Iraqi People 3. Complete Electoral Reform 4. No Corporate Conglomerate Will Be Allowed To Control More Than 5% Of News Market 5. Federal Reserve Abolished 6. For-Profit Prison Industry Abolished
*George Orwell (1903-1950) English novelist, critic
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness... If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... The great enemy of clear language is insincerity... The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it... To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle... For a creative writer possession of the truth is less important than emotional sincerity.
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22 comments:
True dat! It had all gone down by 15!
Yeah, I knew FULL well what I was doing at 15.
None of that diminishes that fact that he KNEW she was a youngin'. He's a grown man who lives a life of indulgence without limits. You can’t transfer the blame to this GIRL who is MOST likely wrought with serious problems. R Kelly is no different than the average pedophile, he can just afford representation. And since he can afford atty's, he can afford THERAPY.
F**k it, he can flip another booty song. And I’m gonna buy it ;-)
....I'm a flirt....when I walkinto the club....I'm a flirt!
Thats my shit right now. LOL
Now if Chris Hanson would have caught his ass it would have been a rap! Perverted Injustice in this case.
Really if that was not a little girl of color what would the outcome have been! A can of Woop Ass for the R.
You feel me?
The fact that a 15-year-old kid knows what's going on doesn't mean that kid has the maturity to deal with it.
But Dina, does consent require emotional maturity? If so, know some 40 year olds who should be on a darn leash.
Robyn,
Such the lawyer. :-)
Yes, consent requires a minimal emotional maturity. Agreed that there are 40-year-olds who should be on a leash (well said), but most 15-year-olds don't have the maturity to safely drive a car, let alone have crazy sex.
I'll be the first to admit that 18 and 21 are arbitrary lines in the sand to mark as ages of maturity for certain things, but there are good reasons why everything from contract law to criminal law distinguishes between kids and grown ups.
Paradoxically too, I wouldn't be so bothered if the boy was 15-years old, but the difference in ages and her youth are troubling.
Not sure what the alternative is. Do we lower the age of consent? Abolish it altogether? Perhaps we measure maturity by cognitive development - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
Great Points! II
I agree that somethings are "for adults." Like contracts. And I agree that RKelly is a pedophile. However, generally speaking, regarding sexual behavior, I think we are lying to ourselves if we think that kids under 18 arent KNOWINGLY charging full speed ahead. Obviously, there are cases where children are being manipulated and taken advantage of. And obviously, there are repurcussions from sex (like pregnancy) that someone 18 yo is not equipped to deal with, but IMO, that doesnt change the reality that kids under 18 are CHOOSING to "do it" - consistently and repeatedly so. When I was in high school from 93-96, I had TWO friends sleeping with guys that were of age. Under traditional theories, these guys were playing with fire in terms of potential Stat Rape cases. In reality, I had two hot ass friends who knew what they were doing and actively sought out ways to do so.
When I did it - before 18 - I knew what was going on!
Kids just arent as innocent and shielded as they once were is all I'm saying.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
I'd bet there are 12-year-olds pushing full steam ahead too, but it wouldn't be ok for R. Kelly to pee on them either. :-) Is it really relevant if the 15-year-old is going full speed ahead? Presumably, pedophiles who hunt kids on the internet are finding kids who knowingly participate, but does that doesn't make it ok.
The question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing. Perhaps a good analogy is criminal law. Is a 15-year-old who robs a liquor store the equivalent of a 30-year-old who does? If so, then 15-year-olds should be subject to the same punishments. If not, why?
Do we abolish the distinction between child and adult and tailor laws to the maturity of each person? Which I am not saying is necesarily wrong.
Re: the origins of stat. rape, here's what I found on Wikipedia. Interesting that it raises all the issues that you and I have brought up -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape#Rationale_of_statutory_rape_laws
Intellectual: The question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing.
Robyn: I think the answer to this question in this day and age is "yes." Which is why I take issue with some stat rape cases. (not all, of course).
And real quick re: the stat rape policy link, many of the stated justifications are no longer valid in this day and age, i.e., access to birthcontrol, this one sticks out in my mnd.
Robyn said...
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
Amazing question Robyn. Damn. You get points. (I thought you were slippin' lately too)
I'll bet you the "Stat Rape Laws" just like the so called "domestic violence laws" can also be traced back to ... excuse me D ... the anti-family secular feminist public policy that has been waging a war on heterosexuality for a long time.
Wow, now I'm thinkin' DV.
DV,
Robyn's been on point and blowin' shit up for the past few weeks. It's nice!
DV, your point is well taken. It's going to take a minute to decide, though, whether as a rule I think it should be legal for a 30-year-old to pee on a kid. :-)
Is there no protection for any children? What if a 7-year-old says ok?
Don't get me wrong D. I'm not sure it is "OK" for a 30 year old to pee on a 30 year old.
I'm just not pretending it is something we can remedy by passing laws.
Thanks for the props yall!
Slippery slope ya'll... Things are possible until it's your 12 y.o. daughter with a 40 y.o. man... Then you have a murder case. There is a reason why society gravitates to certain policy. Victims/participants must be party to your debate to understand the full spectrum of this topic.
I don't get your point J.
i will kill a muthafucka. i feel ike there must be some weed smokin' going on in this discussion. wouldn't you rather call it a crime and arrest the stank adult than have someone tell you your 13 yo daughter said yes and so all bets are off? cause then, like somebody said, you got murder.
i was having sex LOOOONG before it was credible to be doing so and i know now that what i said, and what I "knew" about what I was saying was about as far apart as Turkey and Texas.
if we don't protect our babies, who will. and i mean even the one we don't give birth/life to.
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