Anonymous said...I had one. Regret it. Should have tried to work it out with the father. I was unsure about the situation when I was at Planned Parenthood. I thought maybe I should keep it. I kind of felt they wanted you to have an abortion. The nurse didn't allow me to see the ultrasound. Perhaps after seeing the heartbeat, my heart would have told me to nurture the child, instead of abort it. So sorry.
Pink said...
Every woman that I know who has had an abortion (except maybe one) is very regretful and borderline depressed about it. I think that most pregnancies come about at times that seem inconvenient but for most it may be better to roll with the punches and deal with it than to not have it and regret it for the rest of your life. I'm pro-choice for some people because I think it's better to not have a baby if you know you're going to be a terrible parent but for the majority, I think they're simply underestimating their own ability to rise to the occasion.KonWomyn said...
Anon,That is a pitiful misreading of my comment. The question of abortion does not refer to me specifically but I was saying whenever the SUBJECT is raised, I find it difficult to discuss as a moral issue. H.O.W did you totally miss that?
Even if I was having abortions I wouldn't take advice from someone who comes across as judgemental and overly-moralistic like you. There are far, far wiser minds on this blog that I'd turn to; myself included, so please spare me the faux preaching, I don't need the saving.
"BUT where does he promote chastity or faithfulness in marriage so you are not contracting HIV or getting pregnant with a man who is not committed to you? I've read numerous titles and responses from DV clearly implying he does not value sanctity of marriage."
Wrong Again.
Either you misread alot of things or you haven't been here too long. Please type Get A Chick or Marriage in the blog search engine and find out what DV and others says about marriage. Read slowly in case you misinterpret things again.
23 comments:
Every woman that I know who has had an abortion (except maybe one) is very regretful and borderline depressed about it. I think that most pregnancies come about at times that seem inconvenient but for most it may be better to roll with the punches and deal with it than to not have it and regret it for the rest of your life. I'm pro-choice for some people because I think it's better to not have a baby if you know you're going to be a terrible parent but for the majority, I think they're simply underestimating their own ability to rise to the occasion.
That's really sad Anon, I hope you will make your peace with it for your own sanity and future children.
Pink,
I think abortion is never an easy choice for a woman, esp in the aftermath bec that choice can haunt someone for a long time. However, for me from the women I've known, only one regretted it and she still cries about it, but she also felt it was neccessary.
The three others were relieved that abortion had been legalized in my country in the 2000s and they didn't have to face the wrath of their fathers.
When I was growing up you'd hear stories of women using hangers, taking potent herbs from traditional healers or drinking bleach to kill the baby and it would very severe effects on their bodies and the babies that survived that; in a few instances a woman would also die. Others would dump their newborns in ditches and public toilets, esp in the 90s there were alot of cases of babydumping - it still happens now but far less bec of massive contraception campaigns that seemed to work.
Whenever I'm faced with the question of abortion; morally it's a hard choice, but because I'm shaped by my lived experience, I think of it as a choice of extremes or having a safe abortion, having a wanted/unwanted child, facing the wrath of an African father or going to university, so I'm pro-choice. (Sounds simplistic but rationalize thoughts on paper in as minimum amount of words has never been my strong point ; ))
Of course it's a VERY different world in The West, I get that, but still a woman should be to make an informed choice to terminate or keep the baby or put the baby up for adoption.
...one
KonWomyn
"Whenever I'm faced with the question of abortion; morally it's a hard choice, but because I'm shaped by my lived experience, I think of it as a choice of extremes or having a safe abortion, having a wanted/unwanted child, facing the wrath of an African father or going to university, so I'm pro-choice. (Sounds simplistic but rationalize thoughts on paper in as minimum amount of words has never been my strong point ; ))"
I'm confused here, how many times have you been faced with abortion?
How about you stop having sex?
Your body is the flesh of God and you are tossing it around for mere self-fulfilling pleasure.
The number one killer of African Americans is Abortion and here you are all up on a blog to save your people.
DV blogs about vaccines killing you, consumption of processed and genetically modified foods killing you...etc ...etc. , BUT where does he promote chastity or faithfulness in marriage so you are not contracting HIV or getting pregnant with a man who is not committed to you?
I've read numerous titles and responses from DV clearly implying he does not value sanctity of marriage.
Ex: " If tiger Woods had married a sista he wouldn't be standing by himself,"
"So he HIT a few hoes, bad man."
Married men don't have sex with anyone but their wives.
The sharing of yourself with another is immensely intimate and personal for good reason.
Anon,
That is a pitiful misreading of my comment. The question of abortion does not refer to me specifically but I was saying whenever the SUBJECT is raised, I find it difficult to discuss as a moral issue. H.O.W did you totally miss that?
Even if I was having abortions I wouldn't take advice from someone who comes across as judgemental and overly-moralistic like you. There are far, far wiser minds on this blog that I'd turn to; myself included, so please spare me the faux preaching, I don't need the saving.
"BUT where does he promote chastity or faithfulness in marriage so you are not contracting HIV or getting pregnant with a man who is not committed to you? I've read numerous titles and responses from DV clearly implying he does not value sanctity of marriage."
Wrong Again.
Either you misread alot of things or you haven't been here too long. Please type Get A Chick or Marriage in the blog search engine and find out what DV and others says about marriage. Read slowly in case you misinterpret things again.
Anon,
Couples of points.
I have.
Got this fine sister during my college years 27 year ago pregnant. Damm. In my senior year too-just got a job offer with multinational firm. Just met a new finer hot honey that I was dating for 2 months(my current wife of 25 years now.). After all that, I had to find out that my old stand by booty call was pregnant-Sheeeeitttt. I panicked and told old girl that she had no choice but to make the appointment at PP right away. I was the campus king" dominant and most popular motherfucker on campus" ,therefore she jump and said yes sir. I was such a punk that at the last minute, I just sent the money and let a friend give her a ride to the " murder site." That sista had so much to loose- A student etc. I wiped my brow , Thank the lord? and said whew. Back to Campus that night saw the 'sidekick' and said "done right", She said - fuck you ,take your money back - I aint doing it and we don't wan't anything from you. Crying? We?? you got half of me in you women! Damm I knew exactly what Tiger felt, this is gonna be campus rumor , I am going to lose job, esteem and new girl!
Wow! Fucked me up good. Shame! However around Xmas time she had the baby and I just started making the mad engineering loot( opened up to my new wife) about it( for the next 26 years wifey has asked me every year , when you going take the DNA to be sure).
For every year from her 1st Birthday on to now, I have tried to buy off the guilt( over the top shit). We use to talk much more when she was younger. She has graduated from that same university I went too. Bright, intelligent and making her own way and talking care of all of her other siblings. Stubborn as hell :). We have never grown closer because I grew weaker and weaker in not wanting to have the conversation that she wanted to have. She never wanted support or money etc., etc., Yep, her mom told her everything. Therefore, the only thing that she really wants closure on is to discuss , "Bitch, you tried to kill me , Why?" Anon, I know it I feel it. As well read as I am- the words don't ever come out right. So Anon it effects all of us. Males too. Plus Karma is a motherfucker also. Dr. call 15 years ago- later said he saw a problem with my wife 3rd pregnancy. One of the boys is downs.Doc, said you need me to take him out , I said no. 15 year of a non verbal cross to haul via my Downs syndrome son ever day of my life.
I sit back and watch my distant little girl in Texas taking care of her Grand mama , her mama, her sistas -their kids(They can not live without her). etc. No moral mistakes. No babies, 26 and knows how to handle a man . did not slip. Proudest moment however, I thought I was independent? She is my daughter- Hate the plantation and don't want anything from anybody:).
27 years ago a decision, I made all based on a corporate image ego- never a day goes by where I have to embrace it some time. It affects males too!!!!
Anon- DV's blog?
I don't know about you, anon-but you can't save other until you save yourself. DV's blog ain't about really saving other people(my opinion) -to me its about saving yourself- working out your shit (fears, etc.) via a lot of thoughts blog (hell this one). Anon, the only way I can express it is using the concepts of mandelbrot fractals (we are a piece of the whole and also the whole) you could only help the other brothers and sistas by fixing yourself, then everyone of those fractals will be harmonious and try to be like you :). Be respectable to you and you first. Only 2 ways to get there: get rid of your guilt(past)-embrace it and get rid of your fears(future) embrace it. Stay present and engage and this whole game will come to you. Brothers gonna work it out!
ps- to wifey- I am sure. That's my girl:).
Namaste-
So, Konwomyn you are pro-choice because YOU don't want the wrath of YOUR father, YOU might not finish YOUR education??? Wow, how SELF-CONSUMED is that?
You are able to put your most sacred life-producing organ into the hands of strangers to tear YOUR baby apart from your uterus? There is no such thing as a SAFE abortion!! Maybe you don't see or feel the aftermath of an abortion, but as you have read there are psychological scars in women, who will admit it. And very rarely documented, physiological scars.
Just read what the first Anon said, " they wanted her to have an abortion." Of courseRhey did, abortions are very lucrative businesses. Do you think they want you to hear your baby's heart beating? NO, do they want your innate protective, nurturing, motherly love to change your decision over your fear?
YOU make the choice of having sex FULLY KNOWING you will create a new LIFE if you get pregnant. That is your choice. Why do you believe you have the right to terminate a life, an innocent one at that?
http://www.asoldierofgod.com/Abortion_Doctors_Repent.html
Wisdom is making wise decisions, so as not to create a life altering predicament in the first place.
I have read the "get a chick campaign" please direct me to
specifics pertaining to faithfulness in marriage.
I have been following for about six months and my interpretation still stands.
my take on -"get a chick" (one)
Commit to one -look at all the beautiful nubian sisters you have to choose from. Get one-(wed)
propagate the race have kids with them.
Unlike local rap shit like (hit) or phuck that bitch or other baby momma's meme.
I think DVs "get a chick" is something that i would share with other brothers. Everything else they have been exposed to in a similar matter has been co-opted by the de- evolution process of asexual reproduction "homo flame crowd "that wants us to be at odds with our god given masculinity and femininity roles.
In order to Kill the positive vibe of the aforementioned.
Get a chick does not give me any desire to stray. when I see it < i say got one Bra! and she is just as beautiful as many of those on the site.
Do you know that 90% of the other shit( web sites) is probably porno on the net:) that are begging me to start the process of devaluing women that way. I got 2 daughter 26, 20. I am teaching them about the joys femininity and playing the female role.
(just my opinion.)
I think that from a guys perspective, you would be nuts not to marry a sister and create a relationship with her-Get a chick. (her pineal gland is not calcified- inside joke). Maybe T woods should have looked at this site before he married a white woman. None of the women on this sites looks graphic ....Art baby- Every time I see the photos I know that sistas are the bomb.
venus de milo? mona lisa? -Nugga please.
I will tell my son to get a chick. the message "content" is positive. your spin could make it something else.
anon it is internal, not external. It is not on one page or article -it is in his(DVs) flow.
Respect-
Compelling story HW.
KW, what you say about girls being afraid of their fathers is a telling statement regarding abortion. So would having a baby without the father's approval make life so difficult as to be impossible in your culture? I had some girlfriends who were Indian from Fiji many years ago. Their father had arranged their marriages and when he found out they had boyfriends who were not of the proper cast and not the ones he chose, he beat his daughters asses, took them out of school period and married them off.
I will never forget how heartbreaking and depressed this made me. They had absolutely no rights; what they wanted to do for themselves was a non issue. Last I heard the older sister's man and family relied upon her exclusively for income and he was abusive. I don't know about the other sister.
All of this to say that we ought to be sensitive to cultural dynamics when discussing abortion in other countries.
I think it's fair to say that if many of these girls COULD get familial support rather than being the shame and the fuck up of their families, they likely wouldn't abort.
As you know, it is an action that occurs under desperate and disturbing circumstances.
BUT just because you might be able to empathize with why gals might get abortions given social and familial pressures, it still doesn't take away the fact that elective abortion is the termination of an innocent human life. And killing innocent human beings is wrong no matter how you slice it.
Don't you think it would be more consistent with a non violent life style to support those women who want to have the babies but need help because their families might abandon them? I dont know if they have pregnancy centers where you are from, but I know that there are countless women who would not have made a choice to abort if there were more supportive structures and the same can be said about women in the US.
Anon,
Please spare me the evangelist tirade, your crusade has all the markings of intellectual peasentry at its finest: willful ignorance, misinterpretation and selective reading. I have nothing more to say to you on the subject of abortion if you continue to exhibit such base thinking.
If you are not compelled to act in the spirit of respect for life and humanity that you want to preach to me about, then consider this conversation terminated.
Wax,
That is quite a story, man. If her mother tried to make her see that you were young at that time and choked like many others do, maybe she’ll listen. I don’t think you’re beyond forgiveness, I’m sure others have been in that position and thought of abortion but that doesn’t make them monsters. I think she’s carrying a lot of pain that needs to be unburdened, it’s been long enough. If she shuts you out of her life then she won’t ever be at peace. Since her mother told her so, maybe she is the one to make her understand the situation; if not for you then for her daughter’s sake. I do hope you have a good relationship with your son though and aren’t harbouring any guilt because of his condition.
It’s interesting that you talk about doctors ‘encouraging’ patients to abort; there was an article in The Guardian UK yesterday that referenced another article that talked about Dr Coercion among African-American and Hispanic women. This woman said that in some cases abortion is presented as the only option by Planned Parenthood – is this often the case?
KW,
You are right on Sister. We had two things marketed to us college students," planned parenthood and the STD clinics". No matter who you were on campus , we all knew where the clinics were at what to do . Around the corner in the black neighborhood. Mentally the automatic decision was made for us for our escapades in school, I just did know it. To know yesterday what I do today....mmmmm. Anyway my goal was just to share with the Anon's (and any others reading), a real heartfelt and lasting effects of a decision made 26 years ago and that life goes on and you can help others by sharing your experience with them. I am not a fan of the Anon assigning Blame and guilt to you in order to deflect their pain at everyone else (DV's blog, Rig viewpoint etc., etc), as the drama in the "victim/ rescuer dance" is what is going off in their mind. I am preachy myself ,but big enough to admit a bad decision and own it 100% (all my fault and then move on). Forgive yourself- with Love- and Thank god you have a format to work it out , therefore " share" and not "project "the pain onto some one else. We are all avatars on this blog so nothing is that personal(attack) here for anyone to say , I can't stand so and so etc., As I told DMG in his very first swing at me, I am him. That darkness anger and fear is just another part of our sub consciousness that I can't throw away. remind myself of that all the time - I am not perfect, you are not perfect....however I did see your attempt to offer love and caring on such a very touchy subject and then got hit while trying to offer comfort. That is probably why no one wanted to jump in on this thread , because I saw from Day one it was going to end with people offering love and then being screamed at.. That is why I just offered my personal history with the subject in what I see as a no win situation.
Peace and blessing for you courage KW.
The bright side is that it gave me humility love and understanding. I gave up the guilt associated with it a long time ago and we email and talk to each other- We are going to work it out, we have too, she is me, so it will not be that hard. Thanks for your kindness.
KW,
You are right on Sister. We had two things marketed to us as college students," planned parenthood and the STD clinics". No matter who you were on campus , we all knew where the clinics were at what to do . Around the corner in the black neighborhood. Mentally the automatic decision was made for us for our escapades in school, I just did know it. To know yesterday what I do today....mmmmm. Anyway my goal was just to share with the Anon's (and any others reading), a real heartfelt and lasting effects of a decision made 26 years ago and that life goes on and you can help others by sharing your experience with them. I am not a fan of the Anon assigning Blame and guilt to you in order to deflect their pain at everyone else (DV's blog, Rig viewpoint etc., etc), as the drama in the "victim/ rescuer dance" is what is going off in their mind. I am preachy myself ,but big enough to admit a bad decision and own it 100% (all my fault and then move on). Forgive yourself- with Love- and Thank god you have a format to work it out , therefore " share" and not "project "the pain onto some one else. We are all avatars on this blog so nothing is that personal(attack) here for anyone to say , I can't stand so and so etc., As I told DMG in his very first swing at me, I am him. That darkness anger and fear is just another part of our sub consciousness that I can't throw away. remind myself of that all the time - I am not perfect, you are not perfect....however I did see your attempt to offer love and caring on such a very touchy subject and then got hit while trying to offer comfort. That is probably why no one wanted to jump in on this thread , because I saw from Day one it was going to end with people offering love and then being screamed at.. That is why I just offered my personal history with the subject in what I see as a no win situation.
Peace and blessing for you courage KW.
The bright side is that it gave me humility love and understanding. I gave up the guilt associated with it a long time ago and we email and talk to each other- We are going to work it out, we have too, she is me, so it will not be that hard. Thanks for your kindness.
Mahndisa
Depending on the father you have, life can be very difficult if you fall pregnant especially when you are young i.e. 21 and below. Some girls run away for fear of what will happen to them, others get chased away from home – my cousin was 18 and her dad kicked her out of home for month till one aunt came to plead her case.
What you’re describing of your Fijian friends is very sad and I can relate coz that’s happened to some girls; sans the arranged marriage, one can get beaten, expelled from school and sent off to the rural areas or sent to the boy’s home – if she’s rejected by him then she has nowhere to go. If a girl falls pregnant in a formal high school she is automatically expelled; she has to continue at a vocational college.
My sister fell pregnant at university and my parents pulled her out of university in Cape Town and made her stay at home and finish studying via correspondence, whilst holding down a job. The culture is quite tough on girls and it’s only with our generation that things are beginning to change; we don’t have the same attitudes to teen pregnancy as our parents do.
You’re quite right that attitudes towards abortion are not the same everywhere – it’s family issues and also money; Zimbabwe is not like South Africa where you can get free health, housing priority or a one-off allowance. The government has just enough to keep itself running, there is no welfare for pregnant women – even when things were good there was never such a provision.
With the way government hospitals have become run down (private hospitals don’t do abortions) and the expense of having such a procedure, I wouldn’t be surprised if cases of poor women drinking bleach and herbs to induce abortion were on the rise.
“Don't you think it would be more consistent with a non violent life style to support those women who want to have the babies but need help because their families might abandon them?”
Yea I can agree with that, but that support has to go both ways for me - whether that woman chooses to keep her child or not to. If not, it must be the safest way. I also think choice is inextricably linked to poverty; if poverty was addressed in the West, abortion rates as a consequence would fall.
DV would rightly argue it's because abortion is marketed to poor Black women as the only choice, but then one's analysis must also goes to what comes before that. What's the link between non-marital, non-contraceptive sex rates (long-winded as that sounds!) and poverty? Is it because poor communities happento have a higher population density so it seems non-marital sex rate are higher? Or am I looking at this wrong?
"Is it because poor communities happen to have a higher population density so it seems non-marital sex rate are higher? Or am I looking at this wrong?"
I used to think that when I was a gal in East Oakland, before we moved to Modesto and I can tell you that you are looking at this wrong. Everybody fucks. Very few people are able to keep the formal boundary of saving sex until marriage across socioeconomic boundaries. The difference is that the richer children KNOW about and USE birth control and have access to 'services' that poor women don't have access to.
At this point it is interesting to see how cultural differences shape our attitudes on this matter. It saddens me to hear that women have it so tough in Zimbabwe.
Your body is the flesh of God and you are tossing it around for mere self-fulfilling pleasure.
the most lucid articulation of a "deep personal belief" I've ever read at denmarkvesey...,
immediately followed by this ham-fisted propagandistic blunder...,
The number one killer of African Americans is Abortion and here you are all up on a blog to save your people.
and this assault;
you are pro-choice because YOU don't want the wrath of YOUR father, YOU might not finish YOUR education??? Wow, how SELF-CONSUMED is that?
nilla please...,
anonymous is another ghostfaced coward intent on observing and infiltrating grown folks discussion.
show some integrity and choose an alias and stick with it anonymous.
then, elaborate on this second articulate point you borrowed;
The sharing of yourself with another is immensely intimate and personal for good reason.
What is that "good reason"?
and as for this stupidity;
Why do you believe you have the right to terminate a life, an innocent one at that?
Quite obviously, SHE whose body makes the entire biological investment in bringing a foetus to term - and the primary psychosocial and economic investment in raising the infant to personhood - has the exclusive and inviolable perogative wrt her biological, psychological, social, and economic investments.
That's a priori and non-negotiably obvious to all but the most violently coercive and authoritarian psychopaths.
"Why do you believe you have the right to terminate a life, an innocent one at that?" AnonNeedANameAnous
"Quite obviously, SHE whose body makes the entire biological investment in bringing a foetus to term" CNu
Who ... Exactly, is that person?
"Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you."
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
{yawn}
so, when you say again you gonna set up and fund your agency for the care and elite vegetarian feeding of "life's longing for itself"?
cue crickets...,
s'what I thought.
To Anon1 and Hot Wax,
Thank you for sharing your intimate stories. I apologize for not responding earlier, as I am a Mom first.
Your experience is extraordinarily heartfelt and is one that should compel others to search deep within themselves on the issue of abortion. Killing a human being in utero is an extremely cowardice act. To rip a human being limb by limb, to stab he/she in the head, to crush his/her skull, to decapitate and to inject a salt or urea solution for he/ she in utero to suffer is utterly inhumane and insane . We will do all that is possible to save a human being after he/she is born and we will even protect the lives of atrocious murderers and rapists, so why not an innocent human being in utero?
The majority of abortions are performed out of fear: fear of parents, fear of boyfriends, fear of failure, fear of society. An unexpected pregnancy might be a bump in the road, but does one just give up and throw in the towel? There are many "wise" people on DV...as Konwomyn so congenially pointed out, so do these "wise" people give up?
Do you give up Konwomyn? When you are stumped with a problem in your school studies do you just give up, rip out the page and deny it's existence?
It's astounding that our parents encouraged us over and over to "get up, try it again," yet when it comes to a pregnancy many forget the instilled " get up, don't give up" mentality. There are quick fixes for everything and no one is held responsible for their precipitous actions that created their situation in the first place.
Hot Wax,
Did the knowledge and then the birth of your daughter cause you to be a lesser man or a greater man?
By my reading, a GREATER man, a man who broke through the " barrier" (as some perceive a baby to be), not a man who threw his hands in the air and crawled into the depths of failure.
Then you were blessed with your baby who was diagnosed with downs and you didn't falter on your belief that he was still a human being, he was still your son, a "blob of cells, parasite, a fetus" (all the insensitive names or terms given to prevent you from identifying with him as your son/daughter), a toddler, a gradeschooler, an adolescent, a prebuscent teenager, a rebellious teenager, an eager determined young man, a married man, a wise man, an excited overjoyed father to be... No matter the names of the stages of his/ life He is and would still be a Human Being.
Many will say parents who birth disabled children are putting a burden on themselves, the baby and society, but from the parents perspective and the child the majority would not choose death and would persevere through the challenges they face. We don't kill a human being if he/she has been maimed in an accident or burned so severely they cannot use their arms or legs, nor do we kill human beings who are autistic or who have Parkinson's or Alzheimers who do not respond or act in a manner conducive to "OUR" perception of personhood.
I see and read many stories of the disabled who accomplish and live a more fulfilling productive life than most "capable" beings.
Konwomyn,
"If you are not compelled to act in the spirit of respect for life and humanity that you want to preach to me about, then consider this conversation terminated."
-Act in the spirit of respect for life?? And you consider acting in the spirit of respect of life as ripping a innocent human being apart? Hmm?
Cnu,
Stupidity is believing that your baby is not a person until he turns 7.
I don't need a picture of you to know to whom I am speaking to, reading your cold-hearted, callous posts are enough.
As stated in this post you know where I stand...
If I was afraid I wouldn't be here ready to speak the truth.
Thank Anon,
Your words and thoughts were very moving and right on time about my son. Stay, get a name :). Peace and blessings to you always.
Namaste-
As stated in this post you know where I stand...
forced-birther shit-for-brains...,
" hot wax said...
KW,
You are right on Sister. We had two things marketed to us college students," planned parenthood and the STD clinics". No matter who you were on campus , we all knew where the clinics were at what to do . "
Bra Waaaax ...
Dude is truth!
I'm damn near as impressed with this cat as I am with myself.
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