CNulan said ...
Come on Denmark.You get in bed with bibtard extremists, surely you know you bout to get up with some domestic terrorist fleas?!?!?!
Don't go all quiet and punk now. Having stirred up your resident bibtards for months, I'd think you'd be ready to talk some BIG SHIT now that one of your pet extremists came into the church I grew up in and assassinated a doctor that I've known since I was a little kid.
Here goes your profile in domestic terrorist cowardice, i.e., the morons you facilitate - and here's the underlying motivation for their murderous politics.
Denmark Vesey said ...
I'm sorry about your boy CNu. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for a dude who performed 60,000 abortions.Hell, I'd have a hard time feeling sorry for a dude who put 60 dogs to sleep. (Look what they did to Mike Vick)
Yes, I listened to the ridiculous video you provided. I find the suggestion that people who protest the destruction of preborn children ... simply "hate women" ... ignorant and disengenuious.
Do the abortionists who terminate the lives of hundreds of thousands of children annually ... simply hate babies?
Murdering a doctor in church is wrong. Dismembering a child in his mother's womb is wrong. All the talk about Calvin and changing the subject to ... "misogyny" is a Satanic head fake. Yeah man. The more I think about it. I'm beginning to suspect the abortion INDUSTRY is the modern day version of the ancient practice of child sacrifice to an evil god worshiped by evil people.
There is no greater "misogyny" than piercing the skull of an unborn girl.Thordaddy said...
Nulan, Can you tell us why it was wrong for a white right-winger to kill a white radical liberal abortionist with the blood of thousands of black babies on his hands? Can you say anything more intelligent than Tiller had personhood and Nulan's children in utero didn't?Is personhood even a material thing for a faux-scientist like you to be discussing?
Has an abortion ever [really] saved a woman's life? If Tiller wasn't saving women's lives, but merely killing a lot of black babies in utero then why would you boast about your closeness to him?
The most perverse aspect of this saga is that it took a rabid white right-winger (who saw no race) to do what one would expect any number of black nationalists should have done to a white abortionist with the blood of thousands of black babies on his hands.
And to add insult to injury is the fact that these same black facilitators back the prez who mourns the death of black baby killer. There is some twisted stuff going on here with the likes of Nulan admiring Tiller's "work."
81 comments:
The difference between me, the video commentator, and you - in this case DV - is that the video commentator and I are both personally well acquainted with the folks on the ground who've fomented both sides of this political dividing line - and well - you're not.
It's you who've gone for the satanic head fake.
As far as your ridiculous "suspicions" about the abortion industry go, as one who has expressed an interest in mass mind control, surely you know enough about Brainwashing and Project BLUEBIRD and Project CHATTER to know what the real locus of that activity is.
My man BT got me to thinking about this subject matter last week when he posted about very large scale child abuse in Ireland.
http://btx3.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/ireland-catholic-child-sex-abuse-scandal/
It'd been a while since I looked in this direction, but if you ever decide to look very deeply at it, it quickly descends into some very dark and wicked places that were being actively and industrially explored by the Nazis and which the U.S. imported directly into its own covert governance operations portfolio in the late 40's and early 50's.
Put down the Henry Makow and crack open a real history book for a change DV.
I've prescribed the morning after pill and Methotrexate. Therefore I hate babies and deserve to get shot? Certainly the number of lives cut short by your favorite rap heroes participation in drug trafficking numbers in the thousands.
Obviously Sub. You're a secular satanist infanticidal maniac by the bibtard extremist standards that DV has been advocating.
Please don't change the subject and allow him any wiggle room to start making stupid mouth noises about rap or anything else.
He's put himself out on a limb providing ignorant aid and comfort to some of the lowest life forms in this society and today is judgement day for all of that irresponsible mess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcVEDCqKNz0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emediatakeout%2Ecom%2F2009%2F33125%2Dkanye%5Fwest%5Freleases%5Fhilarious%5Fnew%5Fvideo%5F%5Fso%5Fcaucasian%5Fnba%5Fremix%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded
DV Put this up it's great.... Youtube "caucasian the parody" It's hilarious and proof of the system Black supremacy
One of the few remaining late-term abortion clinics is in Boulder, Colo., where Dr. Warren Hern denounced Tiller's killing as the "inevitable and predictable consequence of decades of anti-abortion" rhetoric and violence.
"Dr. Tiller's assassination is not the lone and inexplicable action of one deranged killer," Hern said Sunday. "This was a political assassination in a historic pattern of anti-abortion political violence. It was terrorism."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting
06 01 09
I always hoped that Tiller would repent and become a powerful antiabortion foe. Instead, he continued to perform questionable abortions. Not only that, his office was associated with untoward practices of fetal disposal and things like throwing away survivors into biohazard bags.
How could anyone who showed such a disdain for human life be a friend to anyone?
I freely admit that an eye for an eye tooth for a tooth seems the antithesis of Christian ethos of forgiveness and redemption. Then again the Bible also clearly states that anyone who harms a child would be better off drowning in the depths of the sea with a millstone around his neck.
It doesn't say what the punishment is for killing an abortionist so maybe the killer took a risk...I am not shedding any tears right now. I do feel bad for his family and the families of countless girls' lives who he assisted in ruining.
"biblical punishment for killing abortionists"?
This is precisely why it's time to start rounding up the bibtard domestic terrorists - using all the pre-crimes tools at the administration's disposal - and dealing with them in the harshest possible manner - allowable under the law.
The benefit to the national gene pool alone will more than compensate for any civil rights violations these morons have forfeited due to their demonstrated sheer violent stupidity.
Amen.
Both are wrong.
CNu
People who rationalize evil are a problem no matter what God they believe in.
Murdering somebody because they are behaving in a manner you disagree with is wrong.
This whole issue is full of hypocrisy on both sides.
Pro-choice folks know that abortions are more than the diposal of "cells." They know that late-term abortions are particularly gruesome. Some of them acknowledge these realities and say that they still support the idea that a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion. Others pretend these realities don't even matter.
Pro-life people know that abortion is a horrible thing.
But, they also know that any sin is horrible in the eyes of God. Abortion has not special place in his eyes.
They also know that it is impossible to justify evil. Wrong is wrong. Refusing to admit to that wrong, or condemn wrongdoers, is a problem.
Why aren't there activists bombing nightclubs to kill fornicators? Or blowing up divorce courts and shooting judges?
Cats and their shifting morality piss me off. Pick a set of morals and stand by it. Don't switch up your values based on the situation.
Nothing like a white "bibtard" to save a few black babies while Nulan is praising the "work" of the Tiller.
Pro-choice folks know that abortions are more than the diposal of "cells." They know that late-term abortions are particularly gruesome. Some of them acknowledge these realities and say that they still support the idea that a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion. Others pretend these realities don't even matter.I don't these hypothetical "pro-choice" people Big Man.
What I know for a fact, however, is that there is no biblical, talmudic, or koranic injunction against abortion.
Matter of fact, the koran asserts that ensoulment doesn't take place until after 120 days of gestation.
The sole authority behind the anti-abortion movement is a 1930's era catholic dogma and a 1970's era Calvinist/Dominionist political construct orchestrated by Francis Schaeffer and repudiated by his son Frank Schaeffer not too long ago.
Those who seek to deny a woman's absolute right to choose whether to carry a fetus to term have no scriptural, legal, or cultural support for their violent imposition on that woman's perogatives, period.
Big Man,
Catholic dogma on abortion dates from the 1930 encyclical Casti Connubii of Pope Pius XI in which it was asserted that contraception and sterilization were sins against nature and abortion was a sin against life. To understand and arrive at an informed judgment on Catholic moral dogma it is necessary to be conversant with a little history.
The voice of moderation on this issue comes from Frank Schaeffer, son and co-author of the more recent bibtard fringe revisionism on this issue. Why I'm Pro-Life and Pro-Obama.
06 01 09
This is what happens when people who think they are smart shoot off at the mouth. The moral conundrums are particularly nonsensical. Calling folks bibtards and all that what a retard! Besides all that, there are people whose issues with abortion aren't rooted in religious ideology. People who believe in HUMAN RIGHTS are a good example.
Big Man you are so right; it was wrong of that man to kill Tiller. And it was wrong of Tiller to kill all those babies. Interesting how he died by violence. I ain't crying, but I do feel bad for his and his assassins' families.
bibtards are the drag on the gene pool who pretend to hold to scripturally based authorities and beliefs - but are really too ignorant of the scriptures to know whether or not those "beliefs" have an actual scriptural foundation.
Consequently, they're just politically malleable sheep easily controlled by opportunistic pimps like Pius XI and the wife abusing dominionist Schaeffer.
since foeti have no person status under the law, the bibtard is left to a naked "because I said so" argument to support his or her opposition to a woman's right to choose to carry a fetus to term.
I believe the term that Josh Thordaddy Farst uses for such a one, i.e., a "because I said so" authoritarian, is "radical autonomist"....,
This would make the extremist bibtard violent domestic terrorists and all who believe like them categorical "radical autonomists".
This is just all around sad. Whether you believe in abortion or not, killing this man doesn't prevent even one abortion from taking place.
I'm very gray area on the whole subject. I think late term abortion is murder but the earlier abortions, I'm kind of on the fence about. It's not something I could do because I love and want children but I often see girls and women with children that I think may have been better off aborted. It's not my call but I can't stand seeing women who seem to hate their kids for taking away their freedom and treating these kids like shit.
Lord knows I don't wanna step in the middle of this one. And Craig, I don't want to piss you off in particular. But can I ask you a question? It's rather personal.
You got two kids, right, Craig? Is it your position that those kids weren't "persons" until the day they were born? And that the week before they were born, they were "non-persons"?
No problem David.
You asked me a most reasonable question in the most reasonable possible manner. In fact, it is the most important question to ask with regard to this, and it is the crux of the matter.
Having had the privilege of closely observing children (not merely my own) in considerable detail - I can tell you with no uncertainty whatsoever - that their "personhood" evolves through a variety of stages and exhibits a variety of "qualities".
What is conventionally referred to as a "persona" or the mask of "personality" isn't fully instantiated until after the age of seven. This is manifested in what a child can understand, articulate, and remember. The overall personality or "persona" which begins around seven is itself not fully formed until long after adolescence.
Before I digress into the long answer, let me speak very specifically to what I believe you to be asking. Sometime around the age of seven, the language-based metaphors "I" and "Me" take on new consequence and significance in the life of a child. That is when ego opacity sets in.
Prior to that time, young children have a miraculous level of ego transparency or identity transparency and their "persona" is extraordinarily plastic or fluid.
As a matter of fact, the greatest abomination known to mankind is worked upon very young children between the ages of 2-4 and gives rise to dissociative personality disorder or what is popularly called "multiple personality disorder". This abomination which I will not detail is at the root of 99% of DV's otherwise handwavy notions about spiritual warfare and satanic influence in the world.
By the typical meaning "person" no child is a fully formed "person" until after the "I" or "Me" is fully established sometime around or after the age of seven years. Of course there are individual exceptions, but this is a mostly valid and widely traditionally noted rule of thumb. It is true of all children including my own.
Interestingly, the essential "something" that predominates before the age of seven, and which is sublimated to the language-based personality is ultimately much more important than the language-based personality to a person's longterm possible development of something permanent within themselves.
It is in fact, the goal of religious practice (particularly christian practice) to re-sublimate the post seven year old persona back into that childlike essential "something" - thus - the gospel admonition "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
This business of "entering the kingdom of heaven" refers to the establishment of something permanent in oneself, or, what you might hear typically referred to as a soul. Not the possibility of a soul, but the actual instantiation of a soul capable of surviving at least the "little death" of sleep.
As it's typically understood, they were "non-persons" until sometime around the age of seven.
That would not be their standing under the law, it would not be their standing under inexact and unstudied conventional belief. However, it is objectively true as a matter of psychological and developmental fact.
If you look at the initiatory practices of most traditional peoples, you'll find this fact evidenced in a startling variety of ways.
Notwithstanding my own boundless proprietary adoration of my own children, at any and all of these ages, I am nevertheless compelled to state the truth of the matter as I have observed it and as best I understand it.
Of INFINITELY greater concern to me than what happens to a fetus, is what happens to children between birth and ego formation. That no thought, effort, or consideration is given to the myriad born, unwanted, neglected, or abused children - is the only priority I choose to acknowledge.
What stupid, suggestible and irresponsible people - who fail to consider that much more crucial part of a child's reality - is frankly of no concern to me. Take for example the useless idiots who cheered on that walking talking monstrosity the octomom.
That is an avoidable and preventablew nightmare of neglect and abuse - funded by California taxpayers - in the making.
^ I guess I should've cited the half-sentence you wrote which precipitated my question. It was this: "Since foeti have no person status under the law..."
Because a newborn infant does have "person status" under the law. Kill one and it's murder. And I assume you agree that a newborn infant ought have such a status... regardless of the undevelopment of its "persona."
Not having any children of my own, I was trying to get at a kind of gut knowledge on a father's part.
In those last few weeks of pregnancy, did you as a father have an intellectual, psychological and emotional sense that the fetus was not a person but a clump of cells... and then, at the moment of birth, you understood his or her personhood status to be different?
^ I popped this reply off before seeing your 5:33 comment, Craig.
My question stands, though.
And I assume you agree that a newborn infant ought have such a status... regardless of the undevelopment of its "persona."
The law is the law irrespective of what I believe, correct?
I was trying to get at a kind of gut knowledge on a father's part.
Since you are at least scholastically aware of the infinite varieties of culturally determined "gut knowledge" leading to all kinds of horrific and ridiculous practices and beliefs, what possible value could such chindribble convey?
How many millions of clitorectomies are inflicted each year worldwide out of the misguided application of such "gut knowledge"?
The law is the law irrespective of what I believe, correct?
Oh. My. God.
A chill went up my spine reading that.
In those last few weeks of pregnancy, did you as a father have an intellectual, psychological and emotional sense that the fetus was not a person but a clump of cells... and then, at the moment of birth, you understood his or her personhood status to be different?Until after the babies were born and I saw/held them, I honestly never gave a moment's consideration to anything besides the health and well-being of my wife.
Once established in my mind as real, the babies then took on a significance entirely out of proportion to their objective being, but consistent with the profound investment and personal risk that my wife had made in order to bring their existence about.
Given the extent of our joint investment and the fully established nature of their persons now, I quite selfishly value them all out of proportion to their objective beings - as do most parents of children.
Oh. My. God.
A chill went up my spine reading that.
Go spend a month in a large city in India and based on what you observe/experience there, come back and see if you still catch the vapors over your imaginary valuation of life.
No offense David, but how absurd is it for you to have "caught the vapors" wrt my statement of fact concerning the law, while you had no reaction whatsoever to the genuinely chilling statement having to do with the reality of immense human suffering and moral horror on a massive scale to wit;
How many millions of clitorectomies are inflicted each year worldwide out of the misguided application of such "gut knowledge"?
Is your "moral" compass that far skewed from objective reality?
^ No. I just ain't going for the okey-doke change of subject after you imply you're in favor of infanticide.
Cold. Blooded.
Let's not get knocked off point here.
The most IMPORTANT thing said in the last exchange - the comment that resonated with me as a father - is when Craig said when his wife was pregnant, his wife's well being was most important.
Hearing my child's heartbeat literally knocked me off my feet.
And when they stuck the needle in my wife's stomach for the ammo test, my eyes were locked on the monitor, no blinking, to make sure it didn't come near my child.
But let's be clear, if my wife's life was in danger because of the pregnancy, it's all about saving the wife. Period. It would be crushing, but that's an easy choice.
Now, with the children alive, if I had to choose, I would have to choose the children, because she couldn't live with any other choice. And I could not either.
When something becomes human is tricky. We can look at a car or a bear and impose human qualities on it.
But at the same time, newborns are blobs. I love them, but they are. There's no discernable personality for months.
Anyway, I believe in abortion, because it's a social necesity. If we had a fair justice system, I would support the death penalty too. And if you harm my child, I will beat you to death.
If you're against abortion, you should be against the death penalty and against war in all circumstances. I can't take anyone seriously who says otherwise.
^ That's all cool, dude. But I'm still fanning myself over here... I need a mint julep... a hot toddy... something!
"The difference between me, the video commentator, and you - in this case DV - is that the video commentator and I are both personally well acquainted with the folks on the ground who've fomented both sides of this political dividing line - and well - you're not." CNu
Nah. That aint the difference between me and you CNu.
You talking about "Bibtards" & Calvin & Misogyny... The Catholic Church & People On The Ground ... The doctor you knew in church when you were a little kid ... the gene pool... rappers and domestic terrorists, Nazis and language based metaphors like "I" and "me".
I'm talking about babies.
I don't care how many history books you read or who So.N.So says 'when people have souls'.
Destroying a child 10 minutes after it is born, is no different than destroying a child 10 minutes before it is born.
Destroying a child 10 weeks after is born is no different than destroying a child 10 weeks before it is born.
There is no greater "misogyny" than piercing the skull of an unborn girl.
Now. Understand CNu. This is the fuck what I feel. I'm not validating my feelings with some shit written by some square ass academic who couldn't find soul at an Aretha Franklin concert.
I don't know nothing 'bout no bibtards and the "people on the ground". I don't know nothing about no hick ass Pro-Lifers out in Kansas.
I aint got nothing to do with that. You bring those issues with you. I'm not part of any "movement". I'm not Pro-Life.
I'm Pro What I See In Front of My Face.
I knew my son had soul when he kicked inside his momma to the beat of DeAngelo's "Brown Sugar".
My daughter had me wrapped around her finger 6 months before she was born.
Now I'm sorry your boy got shot. I don't condone murder. (Before a person is born or after they are born.)
But I aint going to sit up here and pretend Martin Luther King Jr. just took one in Memphis either.
I don't feel like I felt when I heard Biggie got shot.
Sue me.
[quote]My man BT got me to thinking about this subject matter last week when he posted about very large scale child abuse in Ireland.
http://btx3.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/ireland-catholic-child-sex-abuse-scandal/[/quote]
And I call the local "Fight The Power" talk radio host DUMB when SHE attempted to use the Catholic Church child abuse scandal as a mean of NULLIFYING the views of ALL CATHOLICS.
This is so frustrating folks.
Having the INDIVIDUALS in the CHURCH ORGANIZATION show that they are WITH SIN and have Gone AGAINST the bedrock of CHURCH TEACHINGS is NOT grounds to condemn the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH as hypocrites on the issue of the protection of young people BOTH after they are born AND during their gestation period in their mother's womb
[quote]Having had the privilege of closely observing children (not merely my own) in considerable detail - I can tell you with no uncertainty whatsoever - that their "personhood" evolves through a variety of stages and exhibits a variety of "qualities".
What is conventionally referred to as a "persona" or the mask of "personality" isn't fully instantiated until after the age of seven. This is manifested in what a child can understand, articulate, and remember. The overall personality or "persona" which begins around seven is itself not fully formed until long after adolescence.[/quote]
Undercover Brother:
I believe that you asked Mr Nulan a question about the ENTIRETY of his progeny. Their PHYSICAL, SPIRITUAL and EMOTIONAL form.
BECAUSE he cares more about DEFENDING HIS ENTRENCHED POSITION....more than he cares about providing an HONEST ANSWER.....he focused ONLY on his children's PERSONALITY DEVELOPMENT.
From this I gathered that the mass of tissue growing his wife's body were little different than her finger nails or the skin cells she shed along the way.
Just a hint, Undercover - when you want to draw something out of Mr. Nulan - MAKE IT PERSONAL where he has SKIN IN THE GAME in the debate.
Leaving it at the GLOBAL/THEORETICAL allows him to pontificate.
(Did this man mention "Ego" in his post? He SURE has one of his own.)
[quote]Matter of fact, the koran asserts that ensoulment doesn't take place until after 120 days of gestation.
[/quote]
JESUS UP ABOVE!!!
In all other cases he requires SCIENTIFIC PROOF lest he DISMISS the claims from religious books.
NOW that this particular book supports his agenda......he uses it as a scientific reference.
Why? Because Allah SAID it was so about 120 days of ensoulment.
Just a hint, Undercover - when you want to draw something out of Mr. Nulan...
I'm not exactly in need of advice on how to carry forth an exchange of ideas, broheim. Mr. Nulan expressed himself quite frankly. Quite frankly indeed.
And I'm still wearing a cold compress.
My blob nursed me and cried when he was hungry. Now 5 years later, my blob/kid plays t-ball, likes to wear cologne, and tries to form jokes (dad's a comic/writer). He's the sweetest little dude I ever met. I'm a better person because I know him. He taught me what real love is.
Sorry for your loss CNulan.
[quote]Not having any children of my own, I was trying to get at a kind of gut knowledge on a father's part.
[/quote]
Undercover:
I have two children of MY OWN.
They were both brought into a loving household.
I value them as I work to mold them into honorable citizens.
TODAY as I was driving home I saw a sign in someone's yard that said "Jessica Will Soon Be Home".
This was clearly in reference to a proud father/family awaiting the homecoming of their new born.
Undercover Black Man:
I have learned over the years that we can't cure HATRED or hard heartedness that operates with the front of INTELLECTUALISM.
One man's "bunch of cells" that are PROBLEMATIC......another girl seen on MTv with a "Bun In The Oven" that needed to be taken care of......IS ANOTHER MAN AND WOMAN'S PRIDE AND JOY to which they will direct their LOVE, ATTENTION and RESOURCES
Since YOU can't control anyone else's HEART, THOUGHTS or VALUATION.....all you can ever hope to do is to make sure that YOUR OWN is in line with your SPIRITUAL VALUES.
This is the key difference between the animalistic mating behavior of the low order mammal.....and the HUMAN BEING which MY GOD placed on this Earth for dominion over them.
Those "fetuses" that had their lives taken away are STOLEN POTENTIAL from a dysfunctional world.
What the doctor was doing was digusting and I am watching Rachel Madow justify it now. Yuck! I ain't sayin' he had it comin'....but he had it comin'...
Understand CNu. This is the fuck what I feel. I'm not validating my feelings with some shit written by some square ass academic who couldn't find soul at an Aretha Franklin concert.
Bingo!
Typically you validate your feelings with some wack-azzed nonsense from Henry Makow or some other "din't get no pussy in highschool" reactionary wingnut...,
Now I'm sorry your boy got shot. I don't condone murder. (Before a person is born or after they are born.)
Sure you do. You condone murder artistically and otherwise half a dozen times a day every day you get busy on the blog. One need only peruse the archives or peep your Calvin Lockhart meets James Bond avatar to suss out the truth of that statement. Don't even try to play non-violent pansy just because David's sipping his 7th mint julip and still fanning himself over my clinical and truthful reply.
There is a chalk and cheese difference in our perspectives on this matter. You din't know Biggie Smalls from a hole in the wall, and MLK was probably shot before you were born. Me, I grew up knowing George Tiller and his family and he was a pallbearer at my father's funeral.
Even though it's your joint and you know I love you like a play cousin mang, sometimes you get so caught up in your rhetorical flourish that your common sense takes a helluva beating.
co-sign all of what that dude said...,
and folks need to go and peep Rachel Maddow's interview with Frank Schaeffer concluded just a few minutes ago.
Schaeffer and his father were the architects of the American anti-abortion movement and he has written a book recanting the terribly evil djinn that they summoned and sicced on the American body politic.
"Bingo! Typically you validate your feelings with some wack-azzed nonsense from Henry Makow or some other "din't get no pussy in highschool" reactionary wingnut...,"
... actually, nah.
Cat convenient because he provides research and footnotes for you nerds who need research and footnotes before you believe anything.
"You condone murder artistically and otherwise " CNu
Apparently you know little about murder and art.
"Who Shot Ya" is a love song.
But you won't understand that either until some square ass academic reduces it to a footnote.
Nulan,
The problem with your post-darwinian black supremacy is that you self-nullify, leaving the rest of us to simply guess as to whether you speak truth or lies.
If YOU think that your mamma had a "fundamental right" to kill you in utero and your wife had a "fundamental right" to kill YOUR children in utero then you get no say in any existential questions that govern our society.
Your radical autonomy can accept the validity of a mother's right to kill her child in utero while rejecting a man's right to kill an abortionist. This rationalization goes no deeper than defining personhood in a completely arbitrary way. So arbitrary that your wife didn't just have a "right" to abort YOUR children, but had the right to kill them up to the age of seven.
And when you add to these facts that Tiller was probably the most prolific killer of black babies of ALL TIME, how should blacks view your affection for such a man?
I say you're a black supremacist which is the logical manifestation of the consistently radical autonomist.
Are babies like chips cashed in?
Meaning;
-The sperm would be the money in your pocket before walking into Ceasars.
-The gestation period is when you're on a roll at the tables. (Sure, you have formed an emotional attachment and are excited about all the POTENTIAL money you have - but really, they are worthless chips.)
-But the birth is the payoff - the cashing in of one's chips.
When the real money (life, birth)is realized.
06 02 09
Feminists for life is a pro life group that has an interesting background. They are influenced by the old guard first wave feminists who felt that abortion was a human rights abuse and against Gods wishes. This movement occured within the Seneca Falls convention etc. The anti abortion sentiment in this country was not architected by some nazi. It arose out of the consciences of WOMEN who felt it was a moral outrage.
the architect of bibtard extremism recanting and taking responsibility for setting the climate for domestic terrorism by stupid, suggestible, and unstable individuals. "plenty of people with a screw loose".
Trigger-pulling by morons will set off the apocalypse in America.
^ This might be the mint juleps talking, but...
Had Dr. Tiller been shot and killed by a black guy during a botched carjacking, you wouldn't be talking "apocalypse in America." It'd be just another "pedestrian killing."
With 50% unemployment rates in the poor Black community and rising, there's plenty enough gasoline to set off that crispy dry tinder.
Matter fact, with your governor putting half a million folks off the dole because of the state budget shortfall, I'd strongly encourage you to watch your intoxicated back.
The one thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the other, however, no matter how much intoxicated "what if" just so storytelling you'd care to engage in.
When heavily armed, insurrectionist nuts like Schroeder with a lengthy record of seditious misbehavior commit nakedly political acts of domestic terrorism such as this one, there is a very high probability of a reciprocal governance clampdown.
I'd just as soon see that clampdown begin sooner rather than later and to see it focus on this demographic element rather than any other, as I consider this demographic element far and away the most useless, dangerous, and destructive in America.
perhaps you have some more compelling apologetics to offer for Roeder (not Schroeder) than you had to offer for Cheney and his mercenary BDSM bind, torture, kill squads in Iraq?
Leach said he met Roeder in Topeka when he went there to visit Shelley Shannon, who was in prison for the 1993 shooting of Tiller.
“He told me about a lot of conspiracy stuff and showed me how to take the magnetic strip out of a five-dollar bill,” Leach said. “He said it was to keep the government from tracking your money.”
Roeder, who in the 1990s worked as a manufacturing assemblyman, also was involved in the Freemen movement.
“Freemen” was a term adopted by those who claimed sovereignty from government jurisdiction and operated under their own legal system, which they called common-law courts.
In April 1996, Roeder was arrested in Topeka after Shawnee County sheriff’s deputies stopped him for not having a proper license plate. The deputies said they searched the car and found ammunition, a blasting cap, a fuse cord, a one-pound can of gunpowder and two 9-volt batteries. One of the batteries was connected to a switch that could have been used to trigger a bomb.
Roeder was found guilty and sentenced in June 1996 to 24 months of probation with intensive supervision. He also was ordered to dissociate himself from anti-government groups that advocated violence.
But in December 1997, Roeder’s probation ended six months early when the Kansas Court of Appeals overturned his conviction. The court ruled that evidence against Roeder was seized by authorities during an illegal search of his car.
Morris Wilson, a commander of the Kansas Unorganized Citizens Militia in the mid-1990s, said he knew Roeder fairly well.
“I’d say he’s a good ol’ boy, except he was just so fanatic about abortion,” said Wilson, who now lives in western Nebraska. “He was always talking about how awful abortion was. But there’s a lot of people who think abortion is awful.”
In recent years, someone using the name Scott Roeder had posted anti-Tiller comments on various Internet sites. One post, dated Sept. 3, 2007, and placed on a site sponsored by Operation Rescue called ChargeTiller.com, said that Tiller needed to be “stopped.”
“It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the ‘lawlessness’ which is spoken of in the Bible,” the post read. “Tiller is the concentration camp ‘Mengele’ of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation.”
On May 19, 2007, a person using the name Scott Roeder commented on an invitation by Operation Rescue to join an event being held May 17-20 in Wichita, “the ‘Nation’s Abortion Capital,’ to pray for an end to George R. Tiller’s late-term abortion business and for all pre-born babies everywhere to once again come under the protection of law.”
The post said: “(Bless) everyone for attending and praying in May to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.”http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/1226712.html
The one thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the other...
Except to illustrate that the degree of your righteous outrage seems grandly disproportionate to the scale of real-world lethality from right-wing extremists.
Or is it ideas you seek to punish, Craig... not deeds?
Why exactly do you suppose the police and the courts played patty cake with this terrorist the first time they caught him clowing with ill intentions?
The 1996 case against Roeder was filed during a period of "heightened awareness of possible militia activity" -- two days before the one-year anniversary of the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City.
According to an unpublished opinion obtained from the Kansas Court of Appeals on Monday, police arrested Roeder after pulling over his car, which bore a license plate reading: "Sovereign, Private Property, Immunity Declared at Law, Non-commercial, American."
The arresting officer was "aware the license plate indicated ownership by a member of the 'Freemen,' an anti-government group," the court record said.
Roeder had no license, registration or proof of insurance, but produced instead a "West Indies driver qualification card," records said.
After finding a knife, several boxes of ammunition and a blasting cap in an on-scene search of the vehicle, police impounded the car and took it to an airfield. There, they opened the trunk and found a gas mask, batteries, a time fuse and a pound of gunpowder.
Those items were used as evidence against Roeder at his trial.
But the appeals court overturned his conviction on the explosives charge. Judges ruled police had not shown adequate cause to impound the car, which Roeder had parked in a legal parking space when he was pulled over.
Or is it ideas you seek to punish, Craig... not deeds?
Have I called for the "punishment" of Bill O'Reilly and other extremist ideologues who set the climate for this nutter to kill?
Are you proposing it?
Andrew Sullivan and Frank Schaeffer don't seem to have much of a problem with it. Perhaps there should be prompt and severe consequences for folks who've been yelling "fire" in a crowded and heavily armed theatre.
... I consider this demographic element far and away the most useless, dangerous, and destructive in America.
When they get to murdering 8,000 Americans a year, call me.
If David Mills gets shot and killed by a black guy during a botched carjacking in Los Angeles, it will be just another "pedestrian killing" nothwithstanding the fact that I'm one of the very few people who HAS been talking for years now about economic collapse and the pending "apocalypse in America."
The fact that the perpetrator happens to be Black will be of no consequence whatsoever and have no causal bearing on the circumstances leading to this hypothetical turn of events.
Fuck is this... the Late Late Late Show?
Those "vapors" must've included a good nap so you'd be up to late, late, late, antics as usual...,
Nulan,
Can you tell us why it was wrong for a white right-winger to kill a white radical liberal abortionist with the blood of thousands of black babies on his hands?
Can you say anything more intelligent than Tiller had personhood and Nulan's children in utero didn't?
Is personhood even a material thing for a faux-scientist like you to be discussing?
Has an abortion ever saved a woman's life?
If Tiller wasn't saving women's lives, but merely killing a lot of black babies in utero then why would you boast about your closeness to him?
Seriously.
Here's the type'a shyte coming your way with a vengeance.
At the very end, the perceptive comment by the young man in the backwards baseball cap:
"This economy is so stupid man. People are gonna start going to jail, eventually, cause they're worried about... feeding their kids. They're going to do whatever it takes to feed their kids, you know? I got kids, man, I gotta feed, man."
Eventually, cities will be teeming with millions of angry young pedestrians, just like the one quoted above. All of them furious and desperate to feed their offspring.
But then, that's a whole different subject mostly unrelated to this post and associated comment thread.
Have I called for the "punishment" of Bill O'Reilly and other extremist ideologues who set the climate for this nutter to kill?
I spanked Olbermann on Facebook for peddling those wolf tickets. By KO's perverse reasoning, if some ultra-left anarcho-terrorist lunatic assassinates Dick Cheney... then Olbermann himself would be culpable for "setting the stage" or "creating the climate."
Olbermann, after all, has said that Cheney has blood on his hands.
It wouldn't matter if Bill O'Reilly had called him "Dr. Tiller, the Hefty Bag Filler." You can't hold him or any other gumbeater responsible for the actions of a psychotic. Lest that "clampdown" you summoned infringe upon us all.
Can you say anything more intelligent than Tiller had personhood and Nulan's children in utero didn't?
bibtard radical autonomist skinheads need to be rounded up by the federal government and subjected to a bare minimum "prolonged detention".
that way domestic terrorists like Scott Roeder and likely domestic terrorists like Josh thordaddy Farst won't be running the streets causing mayhem.
happy now Farst?
Nulan,
Did Tiller perform any abortions for the family?
It wouldn't matter if Bill O'Reilly had called him "Dr. Tiller, the Hefty Bag Filler." You can't hold him or any other gumbeater responsible for the actions of a psychotic. Lest that "clampdown" you summoned infringe upon us all.
This is not true David.
In an ideal world, where the markets and the market for ideas was truly free, perhaps. However, that's not the world we live in. Air time costs a lot of money.
If you study a map showing the regional concentration of the recipients of military industrial pork and largesse, that map is disproportionately confederate looking.
You should peep more of Frank Schaeffer's videos discussing the making of the anti-Black anti-woman backlash base of the GOP. He did an exceptionally good interview with D.L. Hughley in March and it's well worth listening to.
In addition, you should check out the arica website that has exhaustively tracked the rise of the dominionist movement in America, and traces it squarely back to its racist radical autonomist roots right here in bloody Kansas and to Francis Schaeffer as a primary architect receiving those old-line John Birch society funds to make it go.
Your so-called "gumbeaters" are opportunistic and dangerous propagandists who have been spraying gasoline and flipping lighted matches for years now.
Did Tiller perform any abortions for the family?
one can only hope that AG Holder gets in the retroactive abortion business with a vengeance and pays you a visit.
The most perverse aspect of this saga is that it took a rabid white right-winger (who saw no race) to do what one would expect any number of black nationalists should have done to a white abortionist with the blood of thousands of black babies on his hands.
And to add insult to injury is the fact that these same black facilitators back the prez who mourns the death of black baby killer.
There is some twisted stuff going on here with the likes of Nulan admiring Tiller's "work."
Sounds like a false flag operation to justify the next round of domestic oppression that is on the way.
That recently withdrawn DHS report about domestic terrorism can now be publicly displayed as prescient in light of recent events.
Abortion has been a relatively inconsequential subject recently. Why is it being revived?
Dina,
Mental illness and bare minimum functionality are to be expected from the bibtarded. The secessionist/dominionist separatists seek out such reality casualties and ruthlessly exploit them for their own political and economic purposes. I've seen this time and time again with the nutty phukkers who swarm to the tax protest and sovereignty movements.
Lindsey Roeder noticed a change in her husband between 1991 and 1994, when the couple had separated. She said that in that time, he had trouble paying the bills and functioning with daily life.
“One day someone told him that paying income taxes isn’t constitutional,” Lindsey Roeder recalled. “And he realized if he stopped paying his taxes he could pay all of his bills. From there, things just started like a snowball. He became very obsessive.”
Scott Roeder moved out of the home in 1994, after he got involved with the anti-government Freemen movement.
His views against abortion got stronger over the years.
“He thought the doctors were murderers,” Lindsey Roeder said.
Lindsey Roeder said that she and her son had always “strongly disagreed” with Scott Roeder’s beliefs, but “he was not a mean, violent person.”
“That’s why I don’t understand how you can be against killing a baby, an unborn child, and turn around and believe it’s justifiable homicide” to kill an abortion doctor, she said. “I don’t understand.”
The couple divorced in 1996, after Shawnee County sheriff’s deputies had arrested Scott Roeder in Topeka for not having a proper license plate on his car.
According to a Kansas Court of Appeals opinion, the plate read: “Sovereign, Private Property, Immunity Declared at Law, Non-commercial, American.”
That recently withdrawn DHS report about domestic terrorism can now be publicly displayed as prescient in light of recent events.
Abortion has been a relatively inconsequential subject recently. Why is it being revived?There's no false flag here. This is very simply how these nuts cluster and roll. Irony of ironies, it also just so happens to be the demographic comprising the teabagging base of the GOP.
Cnu
I read where you said something about the "law" and how your personal feelings have nothing to do with your willingness to obey the law when it comes to abortion.
But, I've also seen you condemn laws that condone morally rephrehensible behavior, or injustice.
Now, I saw your disdain for cats who operate on "gut feelings" but, I'm not sure I understand what's going on here.
You're saying that in some cases the law is absolute and should be respected as such. You're saying that in other cases the law is wrong and should not be respected.
I can respect this opinion because I agree with it.
But, my agreement is based solely on my "feelings" about how every man should live his life.
I'm trying to figure out how your stances, which seems to advocate only following the law when you deem the law just, is not also based on feelings, and therefore no better than all the cats you make fun of?
Everybody makes decisions about what is right and wrong based on "gut feelings."
I've seen you quote tons of books, but I've noticed that you only "believe" the books the jibe with your personal value system. That makes perfect sense, but that's what everybody does.
Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists. We all read books and decide what we want to believe. I can't understand why you think it's so stupid when religious fols do it, but you think it's perfectly rational when you do it.
That seems like a special sort of arrogance. To assume that only you and other non-believers have the ability to honestly assess situations and arrive at a reasoned opinion that is not tainted by mumbo jumbo. I've found that all humans, regardless of their belief systems, contain the same flaws, quirks and strengths, just in differing degrees.
I don't think faith in God makes you unable to think rationally, nor do I think it guarantees you insight. I also don't think refusing to believe in God makes you particularly smart, or particularly stupid.
I'd just as soon see that clampdown begin sooner rather than later and to see it focus on this demographic element rather than any other, as I consider this demographic element far and away the most useless, dangerous, and destructive in America.
Well Craig... based upon your concern for “dangerous and destructive” demographic elements... and upon today’s lethal antics from Carlos Leon Bledsoe – n.k.a. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad -- you best start hoping that the U.S. government clamp down on ISLAM.
I read where you said something about the "law" and how your personal feelings have nothing to do with your willingness to obey the law when it comes to abortion.Big Man, couldn't you just go to the effort of quoting me in the interest of keeping this free of David's interpretive spin and propaganda?
Here was the specific Q&A in question;
DM - And I assume you agree that a newborn infant ought have such a status... regardless of the undevelopment of its "persona."
CNu - The law is the law irrespective of what I believe, correct?
What it specifically said is that the law interprets a newborn as a full person. My understanding and opinions wrt that legal interpretation have no bearing on that law.
But, I've also seen you condemn laws that condone morally rephrehensible behavior, or injustice.
I don't consider the law's intrepretation of personhood coinciding with birth either unjust or reprehensible, and contrary to the vaporous spin, I didn't imply support for infanticide.
You're saying that in some cases the law is absolute and should be respected as such. You're saying that in other cases the law is wrong and should not be respected.
I've never claimed that the law is absolute. I merely acknowledged that under the law, personhood is deemed to coincide with birth, period.
I'm trying to figure out how your stances, which seems to advocate only following the law when you deem the law just, is not also based on feelings, and therefore no better than all the cats you make fun of?
Let me sort it out for you..
1. Drug prohibition is ridiculous, unconstitutional, and unjust. It imposes an insufferable burden on society and it is grossly unfairly enforced.
2. There is NO scriptural basis for opposing abortion. People pretending to oppose it on Christian moral grounds are scriptural ignoramuses who speciously pretend a moral foundation for their claims which in fact have no foundation more substantial than relatively recent "because I said so" pronouncements from the Pope Pius XI in the 1930's and a bunch of dominionist political opportunists in the 1970's one of whom has recanted the error of his manipulative political ways.
3. The invasion of Iraq, though arguably "legal" was an immoral resource grab which has proven to be a murderous and barbaric operational failure of epic proportions.
(continued)
I've seen you quote tons of books, but I've noticed that you only "believe" the books the jibe with your personal value system. That makes perfect sense, but that's what everybody does.
Now you've bought into DV's self-justifying pablum. Outside of Julian Jaynes Origins of Consciousness, please show me a single book I've extensively quoted.
Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists. We all read books and decide what we want to believe. I can't understand why you think it's so stupid when religious fols do it, but you think it's perfectly rational when you do it.
When alleged Christians can't cite the scriptural basis for their moral claims, yet zealously stake those claims, then they're not religious at all, rather, they're just scripturally retarded (bibtard) "radical autonomists" seeking to impose their will on others.
That seems like a special sort of arrogance. To assume that only you and other non-believers have the ability to honestly assess situations and arrive at a reasoned opinion that is not tainted by mumbo jumbo.
Big Man, though extensive, your argumentation has been disappointingly inexact and terribly inaccurate with regard to what I believe and have expressed. I've been a practicing orthodox Christian for years and actually know quite thoroughly the basis for actual Christian praxis - which ought not be confused with the ignorant and utterly debased authoritarian "sickness of faith" passed off for Christianity in the U.S.
I don't think faith in God makes you unable to think rationally, nor do I think it guarantees you insight. I also don't think refusing to believe in God makes you particularly smart, or particularly stupid.
I totally agree with you. I believe, however, that one who is ignorant of the sources and application of religious praxis but pretends piety in the quest to assert power is a fraud and a hypocrite. One who can't even manage to competently perpetrate the fraud is just an idiot wholly and richly deserving of the derisive apellation "bibtard"
... and contrary to the vaporous spin, I didn't imply support for infanticide.
Craig... in a discussion about abortion, for you to suggest that you disagree with the law according the status of "person" to a newborn infant... can imply nothing else.
You made that suggestion David.
Period.
Over time, I've noticed an inevitable "conservative" pattern and praxis of opportunistically putting words in other people's mouths.
Though typically observed as a pernicious "debate" tactic, I'm increasingly inclined to believe that it's an artifact of a particular mentality, a mentality that restlessly and mechanically seeks to compartmentalize and label - as if to control - data with which it cannot otherwise reckon.
Please introspect and try to explain what it is about the instance of conservatism one supposes you to know best David, i.e., your own.
What is it about the your own mentality that predisposes you to such unwarranted and imaginery insertions and impositions?
Cnu
Thanks for answering my questions, and clarifying what you think.
You're right, I inaccurately quoted you on the issue of following laws.
I am interested in your comments about the fact that there is no strict biblical injunction against abortion.
I would agree that the word "abortion" is not mentioned in the Bible, but it would seem to be a reasonable inference that any action that usurps God's decision to allow the creation of life would be a problem with him.
It seems to be at odds with both the first and second commandements that Jesus discussed.
Honestly, I don't want to see women denied the right to have abortions. I think that once we start using the Bible as a way to create all laws, we're going to have some serious problems. I don't think it's possible to regulate a secular world filled with many non-believers by forcing folks to adhere to the Bible. Just won't work.
But, my spirit tells me that God is not a fan of most abortions. I can understand the cases where women are in imminent danger of death, but from what I've read, most abortions do not fall under that catergory. It appears that most times women are having abortions because they don't want to have a child they conceived. I don't want this to be illegal, but I don't think it's right, either.
Honestly, I'm not sure what most people on both sides of this debate want. I know DV dislikes abortions, but I'm not positive he wants to see them outlawed.
I know you support the right to have abortions, but I find it hard to believe that any father could truly believe his child wasn't a full human until 7. (Forgive me if I misquoted you on that.)
As a father, I know that feeling my sons move in my wife's womb was a powerful experience. Once that happened, I began to think of them as people.
[quote]
And when you add to these facts that Tiller was probably the most prolific killer of black babies of ALL TIME, how should blacks view your affection for such a man?[/quote]
Thordaddy:
When one MAKES SHIT UP as he goes along.......it is pretty easy for others like you to detect perverted inconsistencies in a person's theories.
Think about it -
IF a person believe that there is NO GOD but instead that we are all billions of years of chemical accidents THEN
1) Terminating the gestation of an organism that would have taken the human form had it not been molested IS LIKE yanking a set of CHEMICAL COMPONENTS from an assembly line and discarding the OXYGEN, NITROGEN, CARBON, HYDROGEN and other elements that make up the MASS OF TISSUE back into the Earth for recycling.
2) The Enslavement of one man by another has no FIRM MORAL BASIS for REPUDIATION. The one is S.O.L. for being unfortunate enough to come from a line of MATING DECISIONS in which certain genetic codes were passed from the male unit to the female unit which made the progeny DISTINGUISHABLE from the "SLAVE MASTER" and thus prone to bondage.
2a) Had the "slave" been born at a later date when MAN has mastered genetic manipulation he might save his own progeny by flipping the bits in his sperm cell to produce a character that looks like the MASTER and thus won't be enslaved.
Once the HUMANITY and GODLINESS is stripped away from us who are a MASS OF TISSUE all bets are off on what one can do to the other.
Constructive Feedback,
I concur that Nulan is your average material atheist... Yet he isn't!
He's actually a post-darwinian black supremacist who recognizes that radical autonomists can create the reality the rest of us must live in.
The question then becomes one of truthfulness and whether the radical autonomist necessarily self-nullifies and then consistently and logically takes himself outside the realm of deciding upon the existential questions that pervade our civilization.
Nulan wants to chime in. But as a radical autonomist, he has nothing of consequence to say.
Anarcho-Capitalist = Radical Autonomist?
Hummm
I'll have to investigate that angle.
Hadn't thought about it that way before.
I guess I had been too "enchanted" by meeting the first Black guy ever to self-identify as an "anarcho-capitalist" to look for other linkages.
CF actually made some good points. You are right that if you view humanity in this way, there are no moral prohibitions on human conduct because abuse isn't really abuse because we are all built of small machines.
Nulan is a total dumbass because all his arguments center around people who are Christian anti abortionists. He never addresses the millions around the world who aren't Christian who find the practice morally outrageous. And he never addresses atheists that find it to be a human rights abuse. So doing would screw up his inconsistent paradigms. What a stupid fuck.
Korrection killer klown.
You don't know all my arguments.
Matter fact, you don't know even the barest fraction of my arguments.
Case in point.
I don't consider you to simply be built up of "small machines".
I consider you to BE a small and badly broken machine.
That, as it turns out, is the fundamental doctrine of orthodox Christianity - whose "authorities" have been referred to as "theraputae" from time immemorial.
Your principle utility mme. comedienne, is to serve as a "poster child" for exactly how some of the specific "broken-ness" addressed by the church manifests itself.
Though entirely unintentionally, you serve your purpose most ably and admirably - and are to be thanked for the antics which you demonstrate so clearly and well.
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