Okay sorry to break up the luv fest but I have a question to let loose on the family. But in usual OM form, first, a story:Last night I was invited to another fabulous $$ multi-ethnic party. It was a birthday bash at the huntley hotel. I was the casual date of a long friend, "Jason the Jeweler". Jason's boy, "Scott" was throwing the party for his girlfriend. Jason had glibly forwarned me in the car of how at times he and Scott (a white boy adopted by a Jewish couple) liked to call each other nigger in play and that I should not be offended for him. Anyhoo, after being pulled over and ticketed by the cops for making a u-turn (being of color and in a new Benz) we arrived to a happy party of 20 or so, all of races other than our own. We sat, we chat, we drank, we joked...
I could tell I had warmed the crowd and become the center of guest attention when Jason's friend and largest supplier, "Nav", in the center of the table directed his convo to me. I was busy taking pictures of myself ;) trying to operate Jason's camera when he offers to take my picture for me. I agree and he says,"You're a dark and beautiful woman."
He reviews the photo he took and says, "it's too dark, your skin is being washed out because youre sitting in front of the window"
My trigger went off...you know the one I'm talking about but I laughed it off and told him he needed the flash when taking a photo at night, with anyone. Then I talked with him about Armenian music and how I choreo'd for one of his favorite Armenian artists. He was pleasantly surprised by it and my knowledge of every surrounding hotel,Armenian culture and..freelance photography lol.
Later on the dancefloor "Judy" pulled me over to dance. She smiled big and said I was the best dancer she had ever seen and that she wants to hang out with me bla bla bla, she pulled her boyfriend over and said "Oh my god, I love her! Watch her dance." but all too soon I felt like I was Sambo, the nigga entertainment. TRIGGER. I ignored her thinking, "it's okay, you're just dancing, and she thinks you're the 8th wonder" Then she says, "you know my boyfriend is Saudi, and I've always liked, I dont know how to say this without being offensive... (TRIGGER!!!)
Go, ahead, I said.
"I've always had rhythm and really liked black music"
My question is, how should I deal with people who are so ignorant? I liked every guest there and I know they meant well but..well..my trigger is running out of battery.
Sarah Friedlander said...
gag. Hello? Excuse me. But must everything with you people here be racial? So what she said you are dark and beautiful? That's called a COMPLIMENT. 
I bet you are dark and beautiful. So what? If you happened to be tall and she said you were tall and beautiful would your tall trigger come into question? Must everything be turned into Sambo moments and nigga entertainment? Trigger? gag You have a race "trigger"? Give it rest sweetheart. Maybe she simply liked the way you dance! Ever consider that? Too many black women come off hostile because they project their own hangups.
105 comments:
its great that you have youself in "check" and aren't just lashing out in anger...the way they might "expect" you to. But at the same time follow ur gut feeling; often times if someone is talking and it illicits a feeling in you, it could be a feeling the person is seeking to illicit.
as far as how to handle it, sometimes people from other races want to hear black peoples thoughts from a black perspective.
other cultures are clear on thier history and past and sometimes blacks are not, other cultures are curious about our demeanor or what they may see as "lack of conern" so other races are sometimes curious on how we really think and feel.
i say all this, to say; address the comments...you can cordially say "why are you so surprised by my dancing?" or "is it true that you never seen anyone dance better than me". by doing so you can push the conversation to another level and/or force people to ask themselves; why am i acting and saying these things to her? what do i really mean; or really want to ask or know about this person; and how is my comment making her feel?
I'd rather be alone.
Call me... I'll slap some sense into them.
i think i'd just give a cutting dead stare to her then to my date, then walk away. time to go home. but you were stronger and better than i. you indulged her in her ignorance. anymore, i. just. cant.
Peep my steez: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/2498190970/in/photostream/
(that's not my flickr btw, but it's an amazing photostream. i just found that image quite powerful and pretty much sums it up)
You guys are amazing!
@RGB lmao that's a great stare. I've got to practice that one.
@Anon...or RGB?
" other cultures are curious about our demeanor or what they may see as "lack of conern" so other races are sometimes curious on how we really think and feel."
This really sounds good can you expound? What is this demeanor? I love your advice and in the future I will try not to feel before crafting a question that addresses matters effectively.
@NegroWorld Alone? Really? @Jo ...for sho! you wouldve thrown em all off.
Wow DV, the photo almost brings tears...you have that eye I guess. that's exactly how I feel...
You handled the situation perfectly! You did your thing and didn't let their silliness distract from YOU.
Sometimes I think White people make silly comments to ethnic people to gauge how "sensitive" they are. Once you demonstrate that you could care less what they say and that you don't trigger over race stuff, it's amazing what honest conversations one can have.
White folks have been bullied out of real, human, honest conversation with ethnic people from years of sensitivity training, etc. If you can get past that, you will then figure out who is worth hanging with.
Drop the trigger.
gag. Hello? Excuse me. But must everything with you people here be racial? So what she said you are dark and beautiful? That's called a COMPLIMENT. I bet you are dark and beautiful. So what? If you happened to be tall and she said you were tall and beautiful would your tall trigger come into question? Must everything be turned into Sambo moments and nigga entertainment? Trigger? gag You have a race "trigger"? Give it rest sweetheart. Maybe she simply liked the way you dance! Ever consider that? Too many black women come off hostile because they project their own hangups.
I wonder if your friend's comment about him and his friend calling each other nigger kind of racialized the event for you before you even arrived? Do you think he may have put you on the defensive at all?
I think that some people will attribute your uniqueness to you being black if they don't know many other black people and instead of saying that they really like the person that you are, they automatically make your personality and blackness synonymous in their minds. So you can dance and it's because you listen to black music. I think you handled it well because they didn't necessarily say anything to flip out about but if it's constant ignorance and you see these people more often it can grate on your nerves.
Sarah...oh, never mind. You have this coming. I'm going to get some popcorn...
Sarah,
Mahogany is the alias, but uh, no I'm not dark at all. I'm actually pretty fair (by most standards. I would never tell a man I was dark/light...dark or lighter than what?! Not that it matters to me. The hangup is with the guests who made such a point to call it out. And I actually wasn't triggered by the dark n beautiful compliment. It was the "your skin is being washed out" afterwards that bothered me
If she liked the way I danced that's cool, many people do, but why do you think she veered off into the convo about liking black men and black music?
If my Armenian friend would not turn to "Judy" and say, "You're gorgeous and light" I see no reason to call out my skin tone.
"demeanor/how we think and feel"
black people have had the most horrific and troubeling past of any other race. and we still continue to be discriminated against and treated unfairly; YET we manage to smile through it...we danced the soul train line through the 70's,80's, and 90's and other races wonder how in the most trying circumstance we are able to to smile and dance. so they question us to engage us in conversation about our thoughts and feelings.....
my slapping hand is itchy as hell right now, but imma stay quiet this time. i learned my lesson a few months ago....
I really admire Int Insg's response. Except I think it's giving white folks too much credit to say we're "gauging your sensitivity." But maybe.
White people - maybe all people - have been bullied out of having honest responses and honest conversations with blacks. And seems to me we sure need to talk with each other. To be good at this talking with each other takes more than just being honest. It's a real skill that can and has to be developed.
I guess II said it better than I could. That response really caught my attention though.
To be good at this talking with each other takes more than just being honest. It's a real skill that can and has to be developed.
Indeed Phx, Indeed. And perhaps Mahogany, that explains the awkward socializing, talking about Black music, etc. Many non-Blacks are downright scared to speak to Blacks for fear of offending so they trip over themselves trying to be polite and complimentary, which only comes out insincere and, maybe...racist.
I was once told I should be careful because I call Black people Black and "they" prefer to be called African-American. Utter nonsense ingrained after years of "sensitivity" training. If this is what is running through people's minds when they speak to you, don't be surprised when they trip over themselves not to offend.
They made race an issue because it is an issue. It is interesting when people are different. Unfortunately, the skill of discussing such topics and the opennness to do so without it being a big deal have been discouraged and outright prevented from developing.
Hence, you end up with White girls like Sarah, who are fed up with being censored at every turn, just put it out there. She is as much a product of P.C. culture as your friends at the club.
Everybody don't define words the same way. Ice Cube's Lynch Mob ain't the same as Bo & Luke Duke's lynch mob (actually that show was genius how the Confederate flag was redefined through media. Little black children with a General Lee hotwheels. Ain't that a bytch).
Black folks have to learn how to take control of definitions the way the rap community and the Jewish community have taken control of words. Anti-Semitic is a loaded term for Jews even though it includes all Semitic people.
However their word is different in perception. Just how a New Yorker out of Queens perceives the world differently from a Seattleite out the CD.
Even when it's "black music." A statement like that is just ignorant. Anybody who has read a few paragraphs on Chuck Berry would question how they categorize "black music." But everybody is not interested in terms and words or the history of American music. So, they speak from their tier of education.
When DV uses "black" describing a white person, it is not the same as "black" describing Black History Month.
The "black" in Black History Month denotes some sort of condescending "pat on the head, while bowing for a moment of silence." If anything these terms present an argument for our irrelevance. If white folk already did it, why do we need to celebrate black people coming along and doing it. It's like a class of students with straight A's clapping for the one special kid's first accomplished A. Just a month set aside to satisfy a complaining demographic.
Black folks have failed to take control of defining themselves in America.
So DV calling Lord Mockton "black" is using the term to denote truth, courage or sincerity. Whether one agrees with his assessment of certain personalities is entirely different. Like saying Jesus is truth whereas someone else may say no he is not. Well both parties may not agree on Jesus but they do agree on the definition of "truth."
Classic Arabic describes water as black. The very substance that sustains all life on this planet..."black." Tangibly is it the colour black? No. Classic Arabic also uses black to denote: Lord, master, honorable, virtuous, generous, forbearing, one who bears the abuse of his people & leader.
As for "black" in English, one has only to look it up. You define your world by your definitions.
We know the white folk O. Mahogany encountered are not thinking of "black" or "dark" in ancient Arabic, Stokely Carmichael jargon or hieroglyphics. They are pulling from their cultural sources and it is THAT, that is suspect.
Insurgent, phx,
I "feeel" you believe me I do, but this is not about being afraid to discuss race with black people to me...
It's about using common sense.
It's about being polite and respectful.
It's about thinking before you speak. I dont think there is anything wrong with censoring your ignorance.
Hell, I do it all the time and I don't find it too hard to master. You'll find that when you simply LISTEN a lot more than you just spit out your anxious, rapid questions you can learn a LOT about what a person is all about. You can then here me offer up which black artists I listen to or how I've danced since the age of 8. And if you don't make me uncomfortable I will gladly share with you how I feel about interracial dating or anything else that comes to your inquisitive non-black minds ;)
I think differences are amazing too but when in a social setting I'd rather find out more about what we have in common. And maybe that's the real issue here. Some people just believe that "we" are so very vastly different from "them" and I just don't see it that way.
Personally, I'm fascinated by the Jewish community, especially the Hisidic, but you wont find me going around saying stupid shit to them. I treat people, I speak to people, like they are all "my people".
"They are pulling from their cultural sources and it is THAT, that is suspect."
^^that's my boo lmao
It is up to us to create a culture redefining black. Rap redefined music, that's why Prince was trying to rap on his 11th album.
White people really don't know what terms to use because we're so confused ourselves. We say we don't want a white mans Christmas but we turn around and do Kwanza. That's like Black History.
Look at Sergio Oliva & Arnold Schwarzenagger. Arnold is defined as the King of bodybuilders. Sergio is defined as the first super freak of bodybuilders. Being a super freak means a whole lot more than a king. Even when King is used for Labron James they surround that Negro with African lions or something. Nigga ain't no real king, he's an African king like a voodoo priest with a British top hat. Images and words define everything for us. It's not over reading otherwise the ADL wouldnt have cats on the set of a Spike Lee movie to make sure they are properly represented. That is because they understand as well as psychologists the significance of definitions and imagery.
OM - Yah, I hear you. I should have noted that, as far as the incident you described, I wasn't there and I really have no reason to draw any conclusions your particular situation at all. I was impressed by Insurgent's post b/c of how I thought it accorded with my own understanding of people generally.
I do believe that it's awful hard for a lot of us white folk to talk with black folk, and Insurgent has been on the money as far as my own feelings go. As far as any of it actually applies to your situation though, I don't presume.
One of the things I think about a lot lately is that a lot of us are on a hair-trigger these days, and it's a good thing to try to catch that. But that's not directed at what you wrote or experienced.
I think a lot of folks are just looking to be validated, and foolishly they resort to all sorts of inappropriate behaviors to get that validation. White people, black people, all people do that.
You know what else is funny?
I'm putting this out there because I find it much more appropriate to talk about via blog. lmao
As a little ignorant black girl I studied a great deal of European culture in school. I learned how to play piano via classical training from German, Italian, and English composers, People who played for royal families and Philosophers and political figures who in my mind were the standard in public opinion and decorum. So, it amazes me that their descendants fail so miserably at social decorum when it comes to the American black.
Again, I KNOW that statement is just as ignorant as believing that a black girl you met at a party could naturally sum up everything you've ever wondered about "black culture" but uhh..
Then I guess YOU GET MY POINT.
thanks phx. I appreciate your honesty and I get it, believe me.
@Gee You know redefining something so undefinable is fruitless. Let things be what they are...at each turn...on an individual basis....for all people.
I don't believe it's fruitless. We did it with Garvey, Drew Ali, Elijah, Malcolm, Ali, Jim Brown, Jordan, Michael Jackson, rap music.
Nobody consulted the high grand priest with Websters dictionary to insert bling-bling but Cash Money forced it in there regardless.
Don't let them bluff you into thinking you can't switch up the game just cause a few cats own syndication.
The only Nigga's offended by the word "Nigga'" are probably those who still think of themselves as Niggers.
@Gee
lol ok, daddi. good point.
Yeah O, i've been turning this one over, and I don't know, i'm not sure if what they did was racially motivated, at least not in a malicious way. In much the same way that she talked with you about black music, I noticed that you talked with an Armenian guy about Armenian music; seems to me like the same thing, at least on face. Just people trying to find common ground with you, pop culture being an easy in.
Maybe you did go into this expecting a racial incident, and that might've skewed your perspective of what happened. Now of course I wasn't there, and a lot more gets said non-verbally than can be related through text, but just sayin'...
And unless i'm mistaken the "skin being washed out" comment was more a photographer's term, than anything about you. At least, that's how I took it. When a photo is oversaturated or undersaturated, don't they usually refer to it as being washed. Tho I could be wrong...
It's about using common sense.
It's about being polite and respectful.
It's about thinking before you speak. I dont think there is anything wrong with censoring your ignorance.
Hell, I do it all the time and I don't find it too hard to master.
If these are really the issues at play here, then perhaps you should find a new crowd; people who know how to conduct themselves in a way that you find acceptable.
I learned how to play piano via classical training from German, Italian, and English composers, People who played for royal families and Philosophers and political figures who in my mind were the standard in public opinion and decorum. So, it amazes me that their descendants fail so miserably at social decorum when it comes to the American black.
Why?
II....
damn. you got me. I dont know. Maybe I'm just a young dreamer.
Maybe Sarah and DV are right. Maybe..
I'm Black. (or dark? lol)
I'm Beautiful.
I'm a great dancer.
And Black people are simply the most fascinating race of people on earth. lol
GSFSS...I accept.
You probably are and Black folk are quite an interesting bunch. Can't stand a mf'ing Plantation Negro, but there are no people on this planet who got soul and spirit like Black folks do. Simple as that. It's hard for outsiders to figure it out.
The problem you are having it seems is that you are not only Black, making you racially different, but I can only assume good breeding based on the piano experiences you have had. Hence, you not only have the racial issue going on, but a HUGE CLASS DIFFERENCE with the people you joined that night.
Has nothing to do with money. Has everything to do with the way you walk, talk and overall carry yourself. Admit it girl - we're talking much more about class than about race. Once you realize that and accept it, your trigger will disappear and you will pity these poor simpletons who don't know how to behave with grace.
These deracinated "white" liberal females forget or don't know how sexually loyal the black woman is to the black male who is equally, albeit reciprocally sexually disloyal, generally-speaking. The racial lens that the black woman sees through has not been "liberated" in the sexual sphere. A "white" female that brags of her interest (sexual, of course) in a black man is a both a rival and a "in-your-face" reminder of the general sexual unfaithfulness of the black male towards the black woman.
I think it's Sara who should give it a rest. It's easy not to see race when you are in the majority. But fear not sweet Sara, you and yours will have ample opportunity in the not so distant future to give race a rest when you are a minority. I've never heard anyone point out that a white woman is so pale and beautiful. Black is historically something negative, and I think Mahogany was reminded of that when she was told that she's so dark and beautiful as if those two attributes don't go, or belong together.
"White people - maybe all people - have been bullied out of having honest responses and honest conversations with blacks." phx
Intellectually Aggressive.
As usual.
The Negro World said...
"I'd rather be alone."
What you mean bra?
Joanna said...
"Call me... I'll slap some sense into them."
lol. what up Jo?
You always looking for a reason to smack a white person.
What's up with that?
"Wow DV, the photo almost brings tears...you have that eye I guess. that's exactly how I feel..." O. Mahogany
What up O?
Yeah. I aint gonna lie. I got an eye.
Pink said...
"I wonder if your friend's comment about him and his friend calling each other nigger kind of racialized the event for you before you even arrived? Do you think he may have put you on the defensive at all?
I think that some people will attribute your uniqueness to you being black if they don't know many other black people and instead of saying that they really like the person that you are, they automatically make your personality and blackness synonymous in their minds. So you can dance and it's because you listen to black music. I think you handled it well because they didn't necessarily say anything to flip out about but if it's constant ignorance and you see these people more often it can grate on your nerves."
Get 'em Pink!
That's awfully mature of you.
"I was once told I should be careful because I call Black people Black and "they" prefer to be called African-American. " Intellectual Insurgent
That's just ... too ... fuggin' ... funny
"You always looking for a reason to smack a white person.
What's up with that?"
IDK DV, it could be that the person who told me I have a "depraved mindset" is on point... you know what Imma run with that
Gee Chee Vision said...
"I don't believe it's fruitless. We did it with Garvey, Drew Ali, Elijah, Malcolm, Ali, Jim Brown, Jordan, Michael Jackson, rap music.
Nobody consulted the high grand priest with Websters dictionary to insert bling-bling but Cash Money forced it in there regardless.
Don't let them bluff you into thinking you can't switch up the game just cause a few cats own syndication."
This cat is a beast.
"The problem you are having it seems is that you are not only Black, making you racially different, but I can only assume good breeding based on the piano experiences you have had. Hence, you not only have the racial issue going on, but a HUGE CLASS DIFFERENCE with the people you joined that night.
Has nothing to do with money. Has everything to do with the way you walk, talk and overall carry yourself. Admit it girl - we're talking much more about class than about race. Once you realize that and accept it, your trigger will disappear and you will pity these poor simpletons who don't know how to behave with grace." II
Classic
Thordaddy said...
These deracinated "white" liberal females forget or don't know how sexually loyal the black woman is to the black male who is equally, albeit reciprocally sexually disloyal, generally-speaking. "
What up TD?
Deracinated?
What does that mean?
Sexually loyal? Black woman? To "the" Black man?
Come on brah.
There's no such thing.
Is sexual loyalty a "group" thing?
"The racial lens that the black woman sees through has not been "liberated" in the sexual sphere. A "white" female that brags of her interest (sexual, of course) in a black man is a both a rival and a "in-your-face" reminder of the general sexual unfaithfulness of the black male towards the black woman." TD
Yeah.
Maybe.
Or she is simply acknowledging the raw, organic, natural, immense, sexual attractiveness of the black man.
Aight Mahogany.
Here's how I see it.
Sounds like you were ... as my boys would say ... "The Baddest Bitch Up In The Spot".
"Judy" was feeling you and ultimately wanted to surf your swag.
The words that came out of her mouth during the course of the event are immaterial.
Her actions demonstrate how she valued you.
As far as the "trigger" and "Sambo moment" ... I'm going to have to agree with Sarah
That's your own interpretation.
You free to interpret it anyway you want.
That particular way doesn't strike me as particularly empowering.
You finer than that.
Sounds like you were ... as my boys would say ... "The Baddest Bitch Up In The Spot".
...
The words that came out of her mouth during the course of the event are immaterial.
I have to agree with this one. When folks don't feel like they're playing on the same level, they approach you with all thumbs being led by two left feet.
Whatever stumbles out of their mouths is just evidence of their insecurity and inability to find the right words to address your presence.
Once you grasp this reality, your "trigger" will vanish. Just be fabulous... and know it.
OM, you, like me, seem to make no distinction between non-black people who jock you for being black and those who resent you for being black. Those emo/notions are all tied-up.
That being said, just accept that people are likely to be obsessed with you...your style....your background...your appearance....insert characteristic here. Accept it and keep it movin. Shit, take advantage of it.
Constant analysis of intention of people who are insignificant in your life is a distraction.
Yeah O, when she said you were dark and beautiful, I don't think it was meant to suggest you're beautiful despite your being black. I think they intended both words to be compliments.
I guess you've never seen white people just completely fawn over black women with immaculately done kinky locks. (because I have) Or full lips. Or hips. Or any other undeniable signs of raw blackness. (Because again, I have.) Usually, it's not white people who don't like our traits, it's us. It's idiots like Lil Wayne (sorry DV, I know he's ya boy but i've been stewing over Wayne's recent comments about dark skin the past few days) who are the ones with the complexes.
Haha, as i'm typing this, my girl made a good point. She mentioned a white guy doing her like that, with her hair. Sometimes it starts coming off less like someone admiring you as a person, and more like you're a spectacle, like "ohhh, look at the pretty mane on the pony", that type of thing. So yeah, I do see why something like that would make you upset. But I agree with many of the above posters, that it was definitely more admiration than it was insult.
Doc, what did li'l wayne say about dark skin?
Oh never mind, I just googled it. He's definitely one of the best rappers. I hope he's not teaching that little girl that she would look better in red.
Dang, you guys could save the world! I've found so many helpful bits of info I decided to piece together your words and entitle it "Letter To Mahogany" to remind me when this comes up again. You'll enjoy it:
Dear Mahogany,
I think that some people will attribute your uniqueness to you being black if they don't know many other black people and instead of saying that they really like the person that you are, they automatically make your personality and blackness synonymous in their minds. Sometimes it starts coming off less like someone admiring you as a person, and more like you're a spectacle, like "ohhh, look at the pretty mane on the pony". When folks don't feel like they're playing on the same level, they approach you with all thumbs being led by two left feet. One of the things I think about a lot lately is that a lot of us are on a hair-trigger these days, and it's a good thing to try to catch that. When she said you were dark and beautiful, I don't think it was meant to suggest you're beautiful despite your being black. Her actions demonstrate how she valued you.
We're talking much more about class than about race. Once you realize that and accept it, your trigger will disappear and you will pity these poor simpletons who don't know how to behave with grace. REMEMBER: It is up to us to create a culture redefining black. You have a race "trigger"? You finer than that.
- The Fam
gag! sounds like the the comments attributed to lil wayne is another example of some black women projecting their own insecurities.
"In an email to NecoleBitchie, a woman claimed she was verbally abused by members of Young Money. Now while this draws flags immediately Lil Wayne and Mack Maine were not having it. The female who wrote under the name Destiny described meeting the YM crew in a Miami hotel. An excerpt of the accusation letter states, “When we entered the room guda guda was like “damn ya’ll pretty to be dark skin” and then wayne quoted a verse from one of his songs that said “Beautiful Black Woman i bet that b*tch look better red…..i said Wayne your daughter is dark skin so why would u say such ignorance. he then said “my daughter is a dark skin millionaire thats the difference between her and u”.
While the picture doesn’t add up to say the least, the two responded from their personal twitter accounts. Mack Maine joked about the situation, ” Just read da funniest “blog story” ever about me n my fam…..We color blind over here…if a female is beautiful she’s beautiful!! Luv.” Wayne simply crushed the rumors by stating, “Y’all know I didn’t say that shit!!!!!”
Karen Civil who works closely with Young Money raises some interesting points. “why would Wayne, Maine and the Young Money crew be in a random Miami hotel when it is well known they have condos in the area? And why were they all in one room? It’s the small details which give you the side eye when taking time to digest the entire story.”
Sarah- Stop attempting to excuse and explain away the very real experiences of Black women who have been subjected to poor treatment from bigots and self haters. Try to actually LISTEN TO and recognize the things that you hear people speaking of, instead of writing everything off as Black women "projecting their own insecurities" and calling people "hostile" for not accepting inappropriate behavior and words based on prejudices.
Lil Wayne and YM lyrics -
“I like them Ameries, you can have them Omarosas”
- Where the Cash At (Currency’s verse)
“I like redbone, pretty feet, slim waist, cute face”
-I Took Her
“I like a long hair, thick, red bone”
- Every Girl
“Beautiful black woman, I bet that b*tch look better red”
- Right Above It
Borrowed from an anon RWS poster. Sooo, pretty much he's already said it anyway. And sure, most of them taken at face value don't add up to much, but the last one is especially damning.
Give me some DPZ RBG REAL SHIT any day of the fuckin' week.
rotflmbao,
well, that splains why denmock "redbone" veezy - fanboys like a joto for crusty lil'weezy...,
Sarah, what exactly are you gagging on? Do you think that darker skinned black women have imagined comments made directly to them that there is something wrong with being dark or they may be more palatable if they were lighter?
Pink... she is saying that any negativity directed at Black woman is a result of their hyperactive imagination, low self esteem and "hostility". In other words, they are just making that shit up!!
It would be laughable if it weren't such a prevalent attitude.
A lot of dumb, fat, ugly and dark women may have been teased by their family members - but all many of these women heard was 'dark'.
I just saw it happen today.
The girl was hurt but her dark skin was the best thing she had going for her.
She could lose weight, she could read more and interact with a better group, she could even get a better haircur and wear MAC - but there is nothing she could do about her darkness.
Some people just want to blame others for things that can't be changed instead of working on the things that can.
lets party!
http://plixi.com/p/68964610
Damn DV
u right, G
none theez chocolate pieces
agree with TD...
Theez chicks roll unfaithfully
I guess loyalty to "blackness"
just silly me...
Then again, most theez felines
Run autonomously
anti-loyalty run skin deep
in the wood and the Mahogany...
"Sarah, what exactly are you gagging on? Do you think that darker skinned black women have imagined comments made directly to them that there is something wrong with being dark or they may be more palatable if they were lighter?"
pink I am gagging on the never-ending dark skin pity party too many women of color have allowed to become a self-fulfilling prophesy. their problem isn't the color of their skin. these women are just losers using complexion as an excuse! listen. I'm a red head. Some men love it. Some men can take it or leave it. Some men hate it. You will never see me on Twitter lambasting men who prefer blondes or creating little anti-redhead conspiracy theories.
Yeahhh...
I agree w/ sara- ON THAT. That's Wayne's preference. I mean do we really care about that nicca's taste in women? Cuz he's the authority on beauty? lmao. I love his music and will continue to buy but that nigg is FARRRRRR from a good looking man. Ugly people love creating the standard for beautiful. It takes the pressure off their ugly asses. real talk.
I just wished we stopped making bullshit like this news. I mean, it only encourages people like sara to believe that all black women carry this stigma. I mean she didn't even read my post correctly before assuming that I was offended because I was called dark.
Thor... I must've missed something. What are you talking about?
Sarah is handling business. Real talk for sure.
But, I can't help but wonder if the Jewess applies the "get over it" standard to her own folk. I mean, Sarah, do you gag every time a Joo whines about anti-Semitism, prattling on ad nauseum with conspiracy theories about how the gentiles are just dying to produce the sequel to their first blockbuster, the Holocaust?
When someone mentions their Jewish friend or how sympathetic they are to Israel to you or your peeps, are you able to restrain your gag reflex?
Or do you let them go on with the never-ending "Jews are persecuted" pity party too many Jews have allowed to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
I really cannot believe you all are talking about skin tone. Hasn't this been done to death? Haven't we had enough of Brown Bag Party stuff?
Sarah, you are entitled to an opinion. But I don't know why anyone would take it. If you see dark skinned women as having a "pity party", I think you are proving their point. You just singled out an entire group of people based only on the density of melanin they have. People with darker skin have been singled out before, in songs, popular culture..."beauty" products to rid themselves of "undesirable" aspects (read dark skin).
A smart person would ask why, rather than "gag" and pass judgement.
thanks o mahagony ;) that is exactly it. it is some guys preference. nothing more.
intellectual insurgent, do I apply the "get over" standard to Jews? to Jews who need to get over it yes! i don't suggest these women get over it because they don't have cause to whine, i suggest they get over it because whining doesn't help them.
I really cannot believe you all are talking about skin tone. Hasn't this been done to death? Haven't we had enough of Brown Bag Party stuff?
dmg you say you can't believe we are talking about skin tone and then you proceed to talk about skin tone. pick a lane! personally i'm not talking about skin tone at all. i don't think you get it. skin tone is besides the point. i'm talking about self-perception and presentation.
Sarah you are so utterly clueless. You want to swear up and down that colorism does not exist, that it can merely be chalked up to "personal preference" Then you want to make the ridiculous analogy of men preferring blond hair women over red heads? You really want to go there?
You actually have the nerve to call women who have experienced discrimination based on their skin color "losers using their complexion as an excuse"?? Really Sarah. Have you ever walked in the shows of a dark skinned woman? Have you experienced what she has for you to be able to make the assumption that colorism is just in the imagination??
Funny thing is YOU were the one who lambasted O Mahogany because you made the assumption that she was upset because of reference to skin tone. So, who is the one with the issue? Black women who have legitimate experiences with discrimination, or you, who makes the assumption that you know a damn thing about it?
Your disdain for Black women is shines through loud and clear in each of your comments. And now you want to pat yourself on the back because O Mahogany sort of agreed with ONE thing you said, and ignore or dismiss anyone who disagrees with you!
Sarah said :"i don't suggest these women get over it because they don't have cause to whine, i suggest they get over it because whining doesn't help them. "
Saying that women who speak of being discriminated against because of their dark skin are "losers" and are "projecting their insecurities" sure sounds like you are trying to say that they have no reason to complain!
You did not say complaining was ineffective, you basically said that the problem of colorism does not exist. So, which one is it?
Sarah...dear, do you REALLY want to go there? Just say the word.
Actually, I'm attempting to educate YOUR dumbass, since you came to class talking loud, chewing gum, completely ignorant of the topic.
Historical background and context is appropriate. Or do you think this is some sort of "Dangerous Minds" moment, where you are going to step in and "set these dark skinned black women straight" by simply saying "get over it"? You haven't shown that you even understand this topic at a basic level. I would suggest you ask, listen, learn THEN open your pasty Ginger mouth.
I'm ashamed to say that dark skinned black people have been in the past, and are still treated differently in some corners of the black community....hence the songs (including lil Wayne lyrics) and lightening creams. Unfortunately, it's those who don't have a strong love of themselves who are most affected by taunts about their skin tone. Not everyone loves themselves as intensely as our host (and I say that as a positive).
What is so funny about this topic is that if you study the esoteric,and/ or metaphysics and follow any freemasonry, illuminati ish, or moorish teachings- the secret ending too it all - is that the BLACK WOMAN IS GOD.
I guess that she gets the last laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niNo7jtpYnI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjh-K2vLFcc&NR=1
M. York in full effect!:)
Yo Sarah Palinlander, wasn’t that you we spotted wearing a hoop dress at the Secession Ball in Charleston.
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/on-deadline/2010/12/21/Secessionx-large.jpg
Dayum, you’re holding like a Confederate dollar. What are you planning to wear to the gala event on April 12?
i don't suggest these women get over it because they don't have cause to whine, i suggest they get over it because whining doesn't help them.
True. True.
To everyone who is ticked off at Sarah, what is the problem with this statement?
Perhaps Sarah is hitting on something with our Oprah-fied, psychodribble society that elevates anyone who has suffered a perceived injustice, encourages people to expend a tremendous energy upset about things they cannot change and, essentially makes victimhood fashionable.
What is wrong with saying, suck it up, have some dignity, and move on?
II,
Who do you know here who follows Oprah? Name someone, or as you all like to say "Post a link______________". Stop reaching.
Sarah's grouped a segment of society together, dismisses everything said as "whining".
Kind of like Israelis dismissing Palestinians grievances as whining, and to get over it. That's all in the past right? Sound familiar?
Sure, there are some people who will blame all of their problems on outside forces. That's not being disputed. But there are many whose grievances simply are the truth, and history is on their side. The light skin/dark skin thing is still pervasive in the black community. I don't know why. It's perpetuated in subtle and not so subtle ways. Pretending that it's not is the problem.
"What's wrong with saying, suck it up, have some dignity, and move on?" On the surface...nothing. That approach helps sweep the problem under the rug. But, see the Palestinian example above...
Are you going to be the one to immediately check someone you hear harassing someone solely because they have dark skin? Probably not.
II- If you read Sarah's comments you will see that the quote above is a LIE. She IS saying that colorism is NOT a real issue. She said several times that it was just a bunch of dark skinned women "projecting their own insecurities" She said that dark skinned women are "losers" who have a problem with their own complexion. I think those statements clearly show that she thinks that this IS an imaginary problem. Sheis not saying to stop whining because whining doesn't help in those statements. She is very clearly sending the message that "dark skinned women need to stop whining because they are just IMAGING things!"
oops... that should have been "imagining things"
Perhaps Sarah is hitting on something with our Oprah-fied, psychodribble society that elevates anyone who has suffered a perceived injustice, encourages people to expend a tremendous energy upset about things they cannot change and, essentially makes victimhood fashionable.
What is wrong with saying, suck it up, have some dignity, and move on?
It isn't appropriate to demand it from other people, but it's the way I choose, the way I try to live: without rights, entitlements, or expectations how I should be treated. The least effective strategy for me to cope and survive in a predatorial universe is to feel personally offended by its terms - however harsh they sometimes are.
This works for me though, and if I find it better to survive the predators than judge them, neither do I judge people who claim they are being victimized, or that there rights are being violated. This is my thing, la cosa mia, I don't think it will go over well in our society.
I believe in loving my neighbor, and surviving my neighbor if I can. I don't believe in feeling sorry for myself.
"Sarah...dear, do you REALLY want to go there? Just say the word. Actually, I'm attempting to educate YOUR dumbass, since you came to class talking loud, chewing gum, completely ignorant of the topic." DMG
Nah Doc.
Actually, Sarah is right.
You don't get it.
I'll try to help you out.
Your premise is as distorted, fucked up, stupid, ghetto, backwards ass, punkish, pussified and as weak as the Negros who live by it.
Listen to yourself: "I'm ashamed to say that dark skinned black people have been in the past, and are still treated differently in some corners of the black community."
Doc. Your premise "dark skinned people are treated differently" is flawed from conception.
How can anyone even measure some shit like that?
"hence the songs" DMG
songs?
songs?
A handful of stray lyrics in a few rap songs that sing the praises cream colored sisters IS NOT evidence of any broad categorical sweeping disdain among black people for black skin.
Have you ever heard the expression: "The blacker the berry the sweeter the juice"?
Well ... is that age-old mantra evidence of a broad categorical sweeping PREFERENCE among black people for black skin?
What about "Tall, DARK and handsome"?
Evidence of a preference for dark?
Why not?
Why can't it work both ways?
Why must we only perpetuate negative cultural cliches when it comes to the appreciation of the dark aesthetic?
"and lightening creams." DMG
lightening creams?
lightening creams?
Do many darker skinned people spend money on lightening creams?
YUP.
What does that tell us?
NOT A FUCKING THING.
Whites spend 10 times as much on TANNING (blackening) creams every year.
Pale people spend BILLION$$ and risk skin cancer each year in TANNING (blackening) salons.
Do you ever hear pale white people whining about a preference among whites for "darker white people"?
No.
You don't.
Because they don't PLAY it that way ... much to their own advantage.
Only NEEEEGROS work so hard to prove how difficult and unfair it is to live life as a black person. (Right Makheru?)
Doc. Sarah is trying to hip you to a group empowerment strategy I've been trying to teach you for years: CONTROL YOUR OWN MEMES!
Your assignment for next week DMG is to revisit Professor Gee Chee's thread "Advanced Method To The Madness 005".
Joanna said...
"II- If you read Sarah's comments you will see that the quote above is a LIE. She IS saying that colorism is NOT a real issue."
Sorry Jo.
She's right.
It's not a real issue.
People say whatever it takes to make them feel better.
Insisting one was rejected "because one was dark skinned" is much easier to swallow than to say one was rejected because one was fat, boring, selfish, corny, short or had bad skin.
Playing the "black" card among other blacks is the internal equivalent Jigaboos use to playing the "race" card among whites.
The reality is this: If you are Black ... AND Good looking ... the world is yours.
If you are a processed food eating porker it doesn't really matter what complexion you claim.
Hmmmm... DV... interesting. All I am going to say is this... when someone tells you that racism is not an issue.... it is usually indicative that they are either a racist or they are a beneficiary of the racist system.... I think the same idea might hold true for other issues such as colorism, but you know, I am not one to make accusations.... all I can say is.... your last comment to me sure says a lot about who you really are.
Good morning Jo.
Racism is not an issue.
Accept for those who want race to be an issue.
"all I can say is.... your last comment to me sure says a lot about who you really are." Jo
Yeah.
It does.
I'm black and good looking.
KAM,
Stop picking play fights. I'm not really in the mood. It's been rather obvious for a long time, that you consistently choose whatever side I'm NOT on...so stop acting like a bitch for once and read all of what I wrote and respond with something worthwhile. Just once.
Sarah is not correct. We both know why. Her premise is wrong. She's chosen to dismiss any and all complaints of a particular demographic, because SHE thinks they are whining. Because of HER perception. She, like you, haven't done her homework. There is, and always has been bias against darker skinned people....and often within our own community.
It would be as easy as a few key strokes that the skin lightening market is a billion dollar industry, here and abroad.
And why do you think sayings like "darker the berry..." came out? It came out as a response to dark skin bias.
So please stop acting like a punk.
"DMG said...
KAM,
Stop picking play fights. I'm not really in the mood."
(corny negro steels my shit without even an *.)
If you aint in the mood Jigaboo, fuck you doing on my blog?
...
...
Aint that just like a Plantation Negro?
He knocking on YOUR door at 10:00 in the morning ... talking about HE don't want to be bothered.
Vaccines and pork is LITERALLY making negros insane.
And as expected, you go off on one of your hissy fits because you don't have a come back.
Can't stand toe to toe and trade blows, so you gotta act like the bitch that you really are at heart.
You know...that's just "pure faggotry*" right?
*Faggotry-a term used by a closeted homosexual with self-image issues, who proclaims he's the blackest man on the internet. (How was that?)
A mere two seconds on Google could have saved you alot of trouble...the difference is these people are trying to reach a false "ideal" color. Straightening their hair, etc.
Kenya
Mali
India
England
But you've always been one of those "brush the details under the rug" type of dudes.
"the difference is these people are trying to reach a false "ideal" color. Straightening their hair, etc." -DMG
And what's to gain by reaching this false "ideal" color other than self-gratification for an insecurity's sake? If the "Black community" decided tomorrow morning they no longer liked you, Doc MG, because of the shade of your skin, would you quit your practice? Lose your house? Get a divorce? Stop coming up in here actin' a fool? No!
Why in the hell would you want to change your appearance to satisfy someone else's "dislike" of you, or maybe just a personal preference? Shit, let's say you WOULD lose your "job" over it; "light skinned n!ggas" the only one's self employed???
Some chic wants to straighten her hair, wear blonde weaves, rub lightening cream all over her damn self, that's her hang up with her own damn self. Tell that b!tch good luck, and get a man.
Doc, I have a feeling you and Joanna are just a tad bit salty that a white chic came correct in regards to black women. It really isn't all that hard to figure out:
"Doc. Sarah is trying to hip you to a group empowerment strategy I've been trying to teach you for years: CONTROL YOUR OWN MEMES" -DV
I guess all these "dark skinned people" are really just mad because they haven't figured it out yet. Shit, "Precious" figured it out and her condition could kill her ass.
D Smith- So you are saying that "coming correct" means calling Black women hostile, insecure losers? Because that basically sums up what Sarah said over the course of this comment thread. The funny thing is, she came in here and made a comment about Black women being hostile, and it had nothing to do with colorism. Then someone brought up Lil Wayne and she decided to take up that cause, and sadly, some of the commenters decided to interpret her personal vendetta against Black women and call it empowerment. Hey, I guess you do whatever helps you make it through the day.
Is that the new in thing? Come onto this blog, make some racist assumptions about Black people in general and Black women specifically, then tell anyone who protests to "get over it" and be considered a "intellectually honest". Good to know.
For those of you who know the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X03kYL4qGVw
interesting?
Joanna,
I don't think it's a "racist assumption about Black people" no more than it is pointing out an issue that some women have regarding their own insecurities; she's not speaking for none of the Black women in my family, because none of them walk around pushing that tired good hair/bad hair/dark skinned/light skinned School Daze nonsense.
If you perceive it as a racist generalization of Black women as a whole...well, that's you. And also exemplifies the point of the post.
Why would one get so hung up on what Sarah Friedlander says about us...if one honestly doesn't feel it is true?
You define you.
"If you're Black AND good looking, the world is yours." -DV
But only if you believe that about yourself and carry yourself accordingly. That isn't saying the world is going to fall in your lap because the rest of society thinks you are Black and good looking. You have to have that attitude about yourself, and go get yours. Spending your time lamenting someone else's opinion of you is a waste.
If Sarah made the comment towards white people, saying "all white women" want darker skin because they're losers, I have a feeling that no one would have such an issue with it.
thank you d. smith! ;) that is exactly my point.
D Smith You are totally missing the fact that she did not start talking about insecurity based on colorism. She started out by saying that Black women were hostile, and used the original post as an example of that (perceived) hostility. Then she brought up the Lil Wayne story to exemplify "Black women projecting their insecurities" as if colorism does not, in fact exist AND as if dark skinned Black women corner the market on insecurity.
No Jo', I don't think I missed the point at all.
I decided not to take her statement as the point you are trying so hard to make it out to be. You need to make that decision for yourself, unless you want to continue to let Sarah Friedlander or Lil' Wayne (or anyone else other than Joanna) dictate your own self-worth.
Lemme know how that works out for ya.
D Smith, you almost seem to be assuming that I am offended by her statements because I am a dark skinned woman who feels insecure about her complexion.... correct me if I am wrong??? as almost any one on this site can tell you, you are wrong if that is what you are thinking. this is about the bigger picture, not about hurt feelings or insecurity on my part, however much you want to believe that that is the reason Sarah's comments offended me. I am confused though, I thought I had been around here long enough for people to know who I am?
"And what's to gain by reaching this false "ideal" color other than self-gratification for an insecurity's sake? If the "Black community" decided tomorrow morning they no longer liked you, Doc MG, because of the shade of your skin, would you quit your practice? Lose your house? Get a divorce? Stop coming up in here actin' a fool? No!"
How did you cobble together that paragraph of nonsense and stupidity and still actually hit the "Publish Your Comment" button without feeling the least little tinge of embarrassment? Try to stay on point. You are better than that.
How the hell would I know WHY someone would "want to change their appearance to fit an ideal? Maybe you should ask the next woman who walks by you with a weave, or fake contacts, or straightened hair.
continued
Do you actually have a point to your post D.SMITH? Did you actually READ any of what I wrote, or are you just here to try to score a few points? Look at the facts. Shit just look at the models our host has on his blog page....how many of those chicks were born with straight hair? Instead of trying to make some STRAINED analogy to my job and what the black community prefers (easily the weakest offering of the entire weekend) maybe you should ask why all of the products YOU listed sell. Why some women will forgo paying rent to pay for their weave. Why people would put hydroquinone (a potential carcinogen) on their skin to "whiten" it.
What is driving the straight hair, skin lightening/whitening, fake "light" eyes market? This puzzle isn't very hard to solve. There's a big ass fucking gorilla sitting in the room and you motherfuckers are pretending not to smell it's shit.
And Sarah, YOU HAVE NO FUCKING POINT. You have what is known as an opinion....born of ignorance of the topic.
Doc...
Chill.
Why do women do these things to themselves? I don't know, but I'm willing to bet it's because they are too pre-occupied with someone else's opinion of themselves. What the hell is that about? That's why I asked you, if someone had a particular dislike for something concerning you or your physical appearance, how would it change your life and how you view yourself?
It shouldn't at all. Your life will continue as scheduled, regardless of what people think of you. Why would you give a sh!t what they say anyway?!!
I believe YOU were the one asking why everybody is even discussing the issue...yet you continue to discuss the issue.
A whole lot of "insecure, hostile, dark-skinned women" are still discussing the issue as well. They want to spend all their time and money trying to satisfy someone who can't love and/or respect them for who they are, then whatever.
But for real, they need to learn to love and respect themselves first.
D.SMITH,
Chill? I'm simply acknowledging that there IS A PROBLEM. I don't need to chill.
This insecurity is not just completely in these folks heads. There is something DRIVING the problem. Little trolls with tattoos on their faces spitting whack lyrics is only a minor symptom of the problem. Why not bring it out in the open? Let's not dance around the origins of this problem. Or who perpetuates it. If we are going to be "post racial" let's not do it half-ass.
Listening to idiot church folks talk about the "curse of Ham" I know this dark-skin thing is deep in our collective cultural consciousness.
There's a lot of "insecure, hostile PEOPLE" period. Dark skin is just an easy target.
Unless you are going to admit the part society in general and our community in particular, plays in these women's dissatisfaction with their appearance, I say keep your admonitions of "get over it" to yourself.
"Unless you are going to admit the part society in general and our community in particular, plays in these women's dissatisfaction with their appearance, I say keep your admonitions of "get over it" to yourself" -DMG
Ok, shit, fine Doc. I admit to this.
So who you gonna call to "fix" it Doc, the NAACP?
Or are these "victims" gonna have to "man-up" and stop falling for the okie-doke on their own?
Victim is your word. And quite honestly I don't think there's a fix. I'd just be happy with people not thinking they can undo years of psychological trauma with a simple "get over it".
And I've never been a fan of any organization who still uses the term "colored" people...as though there are a such thing as not-colored people.
There needs to be a will to change for people who see themselves as lesser, and for people who perpetuate stupidity like Weezy's lyrics. It's not just him, so don't think I'm singling him out.
How do you think a dark-skinned little girl is going to think of herself if her formative years are spent watching a media filled with light skinned women with $1,000 weaves and her mother subjecting her to hot combs and relaxers, while "jokingly" telling her that "she better get her a light skinned man" when she grows up (this recently heard on the "EL" in Chicago). Mom of course had on a magenta wig and had blue contacts in...but that's another spectacle all together.
Man-up, suck it up, whatever doesn't seem to be working. It just makes someone have a tougher outer shell.
"I'm black and good looking"
But c'mom DeeVee - you know this causes problems as well.
Don't you get tired of hurting the feelings of women who imagine that they even have a chance?
UBJ - Why this name?
Because no good looking straight guy likes to be called a 'pretty boy'.
No Black, good looking, straight guy relies on his looks alone and feels no need for a self-aggrandizing moniker.
Truth be told - sometimes I get tired of mad, fat, dumb, poor bitches getting upset because I tell them that I'm just being polite and that they have no chance.
Maybe the plight of overly blessed blacks should be treated with the same vigor as those who blame everyone else for their own shortcomings.
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