DMG,
The host of this site has nothing to do with my beliefs. I only discovered this blog recently and I quite enjoy reading it especially when you repeatedly attempt to discredit DV to no avail.Additionally, I did not say my beliefs were in Ayurveda but that my current MD was previously an Ayurveda practitioner.
"We'll be there to pick up the pieces. We always are." DMG
Like they picked up the pieces when my father was on Vioxx and had multiple strokes? Yeah, my mom went crying to one of your colleagues saying "nobody told me" that Voixx would almost kill my husband. Or, when my late husband had a seizure and went into cardiac arrest after being prescribed multiple meds following an accident? In his 38 years there was no history of seizures or heart complications.
Like my mother, I was crying to one of your colleagues too, talkin bout "nobody told me" that the combination of drugs he was given could cause a fatal side effect. Now, I don't think all medications are bad, just 99% of them. And I don't think most doctors are either. Just those that allow themselves to be pimped by big pharma and prescribe meds like they're competing for bottom bitch status.
How can you say that vaccinating children is okay when some of the ingredients in childhood vaccines are thimerosal (mercury disinfectant/preservative), aluminum (additive to promote antibody response), formaldehyde (disinfectant), ethylene glycol (antifreeze) phenol (disinfectant, dye) benzethonium chloride (antiseptic) and methylparaben (antifungal, preservative)? The trade off is not worth the risk.
49 comments:
...if you say so.
DMG,
Your envy seems to rear its head repeatedly and you need to consider the possibility that it stems from your own feelings of possessiveness and insecurity. You might benefit from speaking to someone you trust----perhaps a counselor or mental health professional. Or, someone more knowledgeable than you. Say, DV?
"
Your envy seems to rear its head repeatedly and you need to consider the possibility that it stems from your own feelings of possessiveness and insecurity. You might benefit from speaking to someone you trust----perhaps a counselor or mental health professional. Or, someone more knowledgeable than you. Say, DV?"
Ohhhhhhhh
Shiiiiiiiit.
Damn.
Wow.
Um.
Cherie.
I'm more impressed with you than I am with myself.
Cheir,
Everyone's so lazy these days. You are even too lazy to even insult me properly.
You like so many other Americans don't understand how your own body works. So you turn to street hustlers like our host and "dr" Afrika. Your lack of foundation makes you an easy mark.
But you chose assimilate bad information, so it's your own fault that you are ignorant.
The only thing I envy about our host are his blogging skills, credit where it's due.
DMG, It was not my intention to insult you. I was just stating the obvious. Regardless, a healthy response to being insulted is somewhere along the lines of sympathy for the insulter. You on the other hand seem to be dealing with a suppression of emotions that may explain the psychological undercurrent of cruelty you show towards anyone you disagree with. E.g., your statement, "Your lack of foundation makes you an easy mark." It is only your perception that I am ignorant. Not mine.
This may seem a little childish but, didn't you say you would skipping over my posts for times sake? You are "a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings." Better known as a hypocrite.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite
My mom used to go to this doctor and all he did was push pills. If she complained she was tired, he prescribed a pill. If she complained she had no sex drive, he gave her another pill. When she died suddenly from a heart attack, my father went to speak to the doctor. He wanted to ask the man how a woman who seemed perfectly healthy (aside from a murmur she had since she was three years old) could just die suddenly. The doctor became angry, and told my Dad "well, you know tony, just deal with it... people die!"
Your envy seems to rear its head repeatedly and you need to consider the possibility that it stems from your own feelings of possessiveness and insecurity. You might benefit from speaking to someone you trust----perhaps a counselor or mental health professional. Or, someone more knowledgeable than you. Say, DV?"
aye yai yai!
Joanna,
Your mother went to a physician very likely because she was ill. Tired, no sex drive, and heart disease is hardly "perfectly healthy". Yes, people die. We all do. Was she also obese? Did she exercise regularly? Did she eat a good diet? People so often want to blame ME, for YOUR poor health habits.
You seem to be morbidly obese (from your description of yourself). If you suddenly find yourself with palpitations...who are you going to blame? Me, or you?
Cheir...you didn't insult me. That's why I called you lazy. A healthy response? Maybe you could save your "Dr Phil" pseudopsychology for someone who values your opinion. I don't. Yes, you ARE ignorant. That's not an insult, that's an observation based on what you've contributed here. If you believe it to be cruel, that's your problem. You obviously have no decent foundation in human anatomy, physiology, or pharmacology. Seems like you are lacking in basic science knowledge also. If you believe a hustler like "dr" (small d, and quotations necessary) Afrika who makes so many egregious mistakes in basic biology that it's criminal.
What are you a tax accountant? I'm not going to debate the intricacies of tax codes with you, because I only have a basic understanding. It seems you don't have the same wisdom when it comes to debating medicine. Like I've always said, don't believe me. Evaluate the statements given on this blog. I back my assertions up. The host doesn't. You'll notice that he will NEVER debate the facts. He'll try misdirection, subject change, or use some dubious source (usually someone who is pushing a product).
Sure, I'll skip over your posts, but it would be rude if didn't answer this directly.
When I was young, my pediatrician always conducted tests to confirm a bacterial infection before prescribing antibiotics. Even as a child, I was impressed with the time he took to explain the petri dish along with his findings.
Now, you can get a prescription antibiotic for entering the office with a cough - kids and adults alike.
From my experience with pediatricians, specialists, etc., doctors are dangerously prone to giving short exams resulting in long prescriptions.
Even those who don't subscribe to the "conspiracy" of boosting pharmaceutical sales should recognize the unfortunate consequence of the laziness that has permeated the medical industry.
Her Side,
I agree with you. Antibiotics are too often given for infections that are most likely to be viral in origin.
Let me give you the other side of that coin. Parents demand "something". People don't like to come in, be evaluated and told to go home and get plenty of fluids, and rest. They want something for their troubles, and some of my "less agressive" who don't like telling their patients no, give in and prescribe an antibiotic. Why do parents demand? Because many of them don't know the difference between a virus and bacteria (or fungus). They don't realize that levofloxacin is for bacteria not virus. It's the same for people who take left over antibiotics when they get "sick". Antibiotics have a specific spectrum of action--they only function against certain bacteria.
And for your "short exams". Sometimes only a focussed physical exam is appropriate. Depends on the illness. I'm not going to do a long neurologic exam for someone with appendicitis. I'm going to press on their abdomen.
Parents demand "something".
Problem with that... I actually complained to my sons' pediatrician about over-prescribing. Without confirmation of bacterial infection, he continued to push a script on me as "precautionary." More times than not, I told him to keep it and I'll deal with dietary and other treatments.
The one time my mother went behind my back and filled a prescription for my son, he ended up in the hospital for 4 days... a longer story I don't have time to share here.
So how do you explain how this non-demanding parent was being pushed into "something?"
Experience is the best teacher..which continues to be the best source of knowledge...if you want your problems to get worse consult a plantation doctor or call the police and thats a sure guarantee of trouble! Drugs are usually tested for two years or less before they are prescribed by "doctors" to "cure" patients or is it to see many how it will kill before they "admit the mistakes! But DV u need a "Simon" for this site! keeps it interesting!
"Your mother went to a physician very likely because she was ill. Tired, no sex drive, and heart disease is hardly "perfectly healthy". Yes, people die. We all do. Was she also obese? Did she exercise regularly? Did she eat a good diet? People so often want to blame ME, for YOUR poor health habits."
Do you SEE the point I am trying to make??? He DOCTOR never bothered to explore any of her symptoms. He just gave her a pill. Which is WHY everyone thought she was perfectly healthy! She was not obese. She went on regular walks for exercise. She did what they doctor she TRUSTED told her to do, and ended up dead and her doctor had the nerve to be flippant and rude about it. And I still believe that her death was the result of the hormone pills he gave her, she had only been taking them a few weeks when she died.
They want something for their troubles, and some of my "less agressive" who don't like telling their patients no, give in and prescribe an antibiotic.
This admission says it all as to why people should avoid the majority of MD's.
If the doctor is the "expert", then why is he letting himself get punked by laypeople? In other words, he's letting these people practice medicine for him and, literally, he's just dealing the drugs.
Is it the standard of care to prescribe unnecessary drugs because a patient demands it?
Can a drug addict walk in and "demand" vicodin?
Do no harm?
DMG: They want something for their troubles, and some of my "less agressive" who don't like telling their patients no, give in and prescribe an antibiotic.
I.I.:This admission says it all as to why people should avoid the majority of MD's.
Back in June 2005, the American Medical Association wanted to study [read:challenge] direct-to-consumer advertising (DTCA) of drugs. One of the main reasons relates to DMG's comments about patients demanding "something" and doctors basically caving.
If it's true that some doctors fall apart at the seams when patients demand "something" (e.g. drugs), then it's easy to make the leap that DTCA contributes to the deadly over-prescription of drugs in this nation.
Now on to "conspiracy": DMG continually reminds us that the average person doesn't know a thing about how the human body works. So why market drugs (which requires this understanding) to ordinary folk? Does this serve public health or corporate profits (at the expense of public health)?
Goodies from the article link above for those who don't click:
The American Medical Association, the nation's largest organization of physicians, agreed yesterday to study whether consumer drug advertising leads to unnecessary prescriptions, potentially harming patients and driving up health costs.
...
Many critics say advertising fueled the widespread use of cox-2 painkillers, recently linked to serious cardiovascular problems. Vioxx, the cox-2 drug that Merck withdrew from the market in September, was widely advertised to consumers. Studies later indicated that, for many patients, it was no more effective than other, safer pain killers.
...
Psychiatrists have a special interest in drug advertising after reports that some antidepressants were overprescribed and that some had been linked to suicidal thoughts and actions in some children and teenagers.
Her Side,
Well it depends on what your sons problem is. If he has an ear infection with signs that it's bacterial...you may want to use some antibiotics. Sometimes it IS prudent to be precautionary especially if his ailment is more likely to be amenable to pharmacologic intervention.
I'd be interested to know what your son had to caused him to be admitted.
I would tell you to ask your physician to explain why she wants to prescribe a medication. Risks/benefits and alternatives. Ask about the natural history of the disease (how it progresses without any intervention). I'd also ask you not to think "all or nothing".
Statements like this are patently false and demonstrates the ignorance of the general public.
"Drugs are usually tested for two years or less before they are prescribed by "doctors" to "cure" patients "
This is easily disproved by researching the process of how long it takes medications to come to market.
Joanna,
You know, after having spent more than 90 minutes explaining in detail, including drawings, animated websites and references, and second opinions, I heard a patients family member talking on the phone in the hall about how I "didn't explain anything and just said, 'she needs surgery or she's going to die'". You'll excuse me if I don't take your description of your mothers interaction as gospel.
If it's necessary to "take a pill" it's likely that you aren't "perfectly healthy". I don't know your mothers case, I don't know what pill she had. But yes, people do die. Some die without reason.
What do you base your belief that the "pill" killed your mother?
II,
Come on. You've been so reasonable lately. Go sit in your pediatrician sisters office during cold and flu season.
I have absolutely NO problem telling someone they don't need an antibiotic, NO problem telling them they are only getting 5 days worth of pain killer...at the minimal dose...but you all know me. I have no problem telling someone to fuck off.
No a drug addict cannot walk in and demand vicodin. However, a very skilled drug addict, can manipulate someone into giving him vicodin. Or an unscrupulous MD can prescribe it (before you start on a tangent...remember I know you are a lawyer, so don't start on ethics...).
Why do I believe the pill killed my mother? Because it was testosterone (which she was prescribed to counter the effects of anti-depressants) and testosterone supplements are suspected of causing heart problems.
Come on. You've been so reasonable lately. Go sit in your pediatrician sisters office during cold and flu season.
That's precisely why I don't buy the "parents demand it" argument for just writing needless prescriptions.
My sister has told me she's been yelled at, complained about, etc., when she has refused parents' demands for antibiotics and other stuff. But my sister ain't havin' it. She is stubborn enough that, when they don't relent, she tells them to go find another doctor if they don't like what she's doing.
My theory is that most of these parents have Munchausen Syndrome (by proxy) and, thus, giving in to their "demands" would be further abuse of the children.
I knew this doctor, DMG, I used to see him myself. I would go there with a check for the appointment and a list of pills I wanted, and he would give me samples of anything. He was a general practitioner, but it I wanted paxil, prozac, valium, birth control pills, ANYTHING, he would give me samples OR write a prescription for it. Never even would examine me. Just asked what I needed, I would give him a list and walk out with a bag full of pills and prescriptions.
Now, I am not against all doctors. My primary care physician right now is a great guy. He knows his stuff and he cares about his patients. He's hot too, but that it beside the point. But there are a lot of REALLY BAD doctors out there.
It is rare to find a doctor who really cares, which is why I travel an hour to my doc's new office.
Now, psychiatry.... a joke. I spent YEARS in the mental health system thinking that these pills they were pushing were doing something for me. I am doing better now than I was when I was taking 8 psychotropic medications a day. Now all I take is ONE anti-anxiety medication, and i am trying to discontinue that one. Interesting how I spent years in and out of hospitals, therpists offices and day programs, and I am doing better now than I was when I was pumped full of drugs. You know something is wrong when they have you on a pill to help you sleep at night, and another to keep you awake in the morning. An anti-depressant to make you happier and a mood stabilizer to make sure you don't get TOO happy. It is a vicious, never ending cycle and you end up with as many different diagnoses as doctors you see, and not one of them is accurate.
Her Side,
That's a HUGE leap. Stick to the facts (shit provide some if you can).
Please back up your "deadly overprescription" before you make any further leaps.
The average person can't pick out Iraq on a map with a big red arrow pointing it out. And after interacting with the group of people on this blog, I'm appalled at the lack of basic knowledge from seemingly intelligent people.
I don't agree with direct to consumer advertising of medications at all. But nobody is marketing ampicillin and levofloxacin on TV.
If you want to have a discussion about pharma company advertising, you are talking to the wrong person. I'll admit I'm downright stingy with medications. I was trained to review the med list daily and cut out anything not necessary.
I don't take my cues from drug reps (and most of us are suspect of anyone who does). I rarely use trade names when I write orders. I have no idea who makes what drug. In the heat of the moment, when someones systolic blood pressure is dropping, and their heart is slowing...pharm rep brochures are the furthest from my mind.
I'd also ask you not to think "all or nothing".
Now that's advice I can appreciate. :-)
Listen, DMG, I really respect your opinion regarding the medical industry because you appear to be highly educated in your field. I don't have to agree with your field - or your personality - to express that.
BUT, I want to hear more about your position on issues such as DTCA in the medical industry (which lead us laymen to believe the allegations of widespread corruption-for-profit in medicine...)
Sometimes I see you like the once-rookie cop who got into the game to help people, discovered the corrupt machine that runs the whole enterprise, but refused to disparage the machine out of loyalty to the original cause...
Is it possible you're a good doctor (right motives) in a failing industry? I only ask that because your often-combative responses make me wonder if you confuse our questions about the industry with personal judgments about your character.
II,
Your sister is a good doctor. There are others who aren't. That's not a big stretch. Munchausen by proxy isn't very common. I've suspected it a few times, but not often. A simpler explanation is that the parents have little knowledge and are scared. When their kid is sick, they want them to be better...and comfortable. Fever isn't exactly "bad" for you. However sepsis can kill you. That's why there are a group of trained people to be able to distinguish serious from benign conditions.
Joanna, again. I'm not going to comment on the details of your mothers condition. I don't know if your mother was a very healthy woman who rode her bike and ate properly, or if she had a BMI of 33 and did meth. Perseverating over WHY your mother died long after the fact isn't healthy for you. If you don't like your physician? Change. You don't understand something? Ask, and request references. You should be concentrating on not following her to the grave anytime soon. This includes dropping some pounds and getting some exercise, and eating better.
You want to know how to figure out who is a good or bad doctor? Arm yourself with GOOD, well documented information. And stay away from the conspiracy websites.
"dr" Afrika, Mercola, and the other pimps aren't a source of good information.
"BUT, I want to hear more about your position on issues such as DTCA in the medical industry (which lead us laymen to believe the allegations of widespread corruption-for-profit in medicine...)"
We are too busy for there to be widespread corruption. At least I am.
"but refused to disparage the machine out of loyalty to the original cause..."
I have one aim. And that's taking care of the patient. I will go through anybody, including the patient's own parents to save a life. And I have. That's where my loyalty lies. Most of my colleagues are this way.
My industry isn't "failing". The internet has made things more difficult. I'm really sick of people sitting at the bedside "Googling" surgery, and trying to dictate care. I like people to be informed, but Google doesn't replace 16 years of education and training.
My "combativeness" comes from answering the same questions again, and again, even after a detailed point by point explanation. Vaccines? Went over it in detail about a year ago...including Thimersol etc. Nobody listened.
And stay away from the conspiracy websites.
LOL Doc!! Does that go for you too? ;-)
I'm only here to keep you all from marching into the woods wearing matching Paul Smith sweatsuits, carrying jugs of "tainted" Maca Smoothies.
"My industry isn't "failing". The internet has made things more difficult. I'm really sick of people sitting at the bedside "Googling" surgery, and trying to dictate care. I like people to be informed, but Google doesn't replace 16 years of education and training."
I agree with DMG that a lot of people try to dictate care. It can be difficult to find a Dr. they trust and most people are too damn lazy to do so. Folks these days spend more time shopping around for a cell phone than a Dr. I think the big problem for medical providers is workload and stress. Additionally, many doctors must constantly worry about being sued and pay ridiculous premiums for insurance. With the steady addition new medications to understand, it can be downright overwhelming for them.
The pharmaceutical industry is going to destroy the medical industry at this rate. This is not just for someone who initially obtains an eduction with the intent of helping people.
DMG,
No, I am not ignorant. That is only your opinion. I consider all information I receive, accepting what is right for ME. I respect what little you have tried to school me on but not your method of delivery.
With 16 years of education and training, why can't you understand, just a little, why so many people are beginning to fear modern medicine?
Cheir,
Never said you weren't intelligent, but you are lacking knowledge and comprehension of medicine and science. Yes, that is my opinion after reading your comments. Prove me wrong.
Who cares about the delivery method. Truth is truth.
It's way too easy to jump on "Big Pharma". Do you understand the process of discovering, testing, and marketing a new medication?
"Who cares about the delivery method. Truth is truth" DMG
What's true about vaccines?
What's true about Avandia?
What's true about drug-induced Parkinsonism?
What's true about the H1N1 Pandemic and Tamiflu?
...
...
?
Denmark Vesey is a truth machine, bra.
Name something ... ANYTHING ... "true" ... about Plantation Medicine:
_______________________ ?
It's a simple fact that the medical industry will come under a crushing burden (it will fail) in an increasingly diversified environment. You cannot adapt scientific know-how to non-scientific beliefs. This nearly inevitable future creates two dominating health practitioners found at the liberal extremes. One is the doctor who will do anything to save all (a believer in diversity and its crushing burden on the medical industry) and the other doctor is one who will do everything he can to cull us back to health. He is an enabler to the self-annihilators. He is a "friend" to the self-annihilator. Dr. Death, anyone?
What is DMG? That is the question.
Is there is in between, doc?
DMG: "Do you understand the process of discovering, testing, and marketing a new medication?
Death by Prescription: The Shocking Truth Behind an Overmedicated Nation is on my bookshelf – along with other books about health and the medical industry.
There are several problems with accusing average people of being “lazy” about gaining knowledge and picking “good” doctors:
1. Many of our choices (doctors, hospitals, medications, etc.) are governed by insurance companies.
2. Those with the credentials to be considered specialists (medical school, practical experience, research, etc.) don’t agree. Since none of us went to medical school (well, I was pre-med for a while), we look to a pool of disagreeing specialists for information which increases the confusion. [Sidenote: Which is why you should never resent schooling readers over and over again.]
3. Our negative experiences with medical professionals provide us with personal anecdotal evidence that preliminarily support the “negative” reports.
4. Our positive experiences with “alternative” methods further support the “negative” reports against western medicine.
5. Even specialists rely on medical studies that are later revealed as faulty. (E.g. SmithKline Beecham covering up the test results for Avandia.) Source: Diabetes Drug Maker Hid Test Data, Files Indicate as reported by The New York Times.
The other day I got a phone call asking me if I want to participate in a study to test a new diabetes drug. A few months ago, I would have jumped at the chance to make a few hundred dollars.... I was tempted for about 2 seconds, then I really thought about it, and wondered if I was crazy to have even considered it.
Cheir,
You are a very intelligent person.
I don't know if you have been reading this blog for a long time like I did before I joined in, but if you have you would easily come to the conclusion that Quactor is a professional blogger.
What patients? He is here 24-7. Check the records. Weekends, Vacations, (a-hem)Seminars etc., etc. He ain't taking care of nobody. He is to busy spreading fear and "battling(his words)" to the death instead of healing people.
I ain't buying.
Yeah -he can throw a couple of latin terminology around with some surface level stuff, but he plays in the ephemeral then he hits you with the insults and then will say "I have address this and that already" which is never true.
His best weapon is trying to get the crowd to dismiss you any way he can. Not by facts , but by false innuendos.
But somehow he really cares about "you" and other people?
Negro pleeze.
He is a nice guy and everything, but like I said before, his "professional blogger " job is to stop anyone that is starting to have doubts about the Plantation human sacrifice club via some of DV hints and steer them right back to the flock.
"Professional shepherd" hired by Cass Sustien himself.:) It is just impossible to me for a doctor to be sitting at a computer "trolling" on this site 24-7 waiting for a "hit" between his office visits .
Just check the record. He is here more than DV.
Now are you ready?
Here come the" 5th grade" insults: 5-4-3-2-1......
BTW, Joanne is this you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo11i0NxSSU&feature=player_embedded#!
Just playing:).
LOL.... nah, I haven't made my public debut yet... though I am SUPPOSED to be speaking on a radio show next week if I don't get stage fright....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYxZSUDnqI&feature=player_embedded#!
bam! she is right on vioxx. :)
Cheir,
Please read ALL of Wax's statements. Evaluate them. Pay no attention to the contradictions. He believes that human beings don't need glucose, and that it's a waste product. He believes that all disease is based on acidosis. He apparently has no understanding of human physiology and how we regulate pH. He believes..well, he believes alot of things that are complete garbage, but I'll leave that up to you to find out.
Wax, maybe I've found you a new disciple.
Maybe the interaction will scare her off the blogs for awhile.
Who knows?
Her Side,
So I guess the answer to my question is "no".
Her Side,
So I guess the answer to my question is "no".
Ummm... I may have missed a comment. The traffic got heavy. Are you sure you're talking about a question to me?
I put up a comment last night that didn't pop-up until today...
"Do you understand the process of discovering, testing, and marketing a new medication?"-DMG
"Death by Prescription: The Shocking Truth Behind an Overmedicated Nation is on my bookshelf – along with other books about health and the medical industry."
-HerSide
Again, I suppose your answer is no, if you think reading that gives you a good idea of the process.
Too few people read source material, and to many opt for biased pseudo-scholarship.
"Do you understand the process of discovering, testing, and marketing a new medication?"-DMG
I only understand it as presented in the book I cited and other misc. news + articles by "specialists" that address the issue.
This is making my point. I can cite books and articles on the subject. You may call those poor-quality sources, but aren't you just another source from which we learn (and you expect us to believe because you studied to become a specialist, provide your experience, and point to even more sources)?
Like Cheir asked: With 16 years of education and training, why can't you understand, just a little, why so many people are beginning to fear modern medicine?
Well, this illustrates MY point. You believe reading a biased "bestseller" is equivalent to source material.
That's sad.
DMG, I see a lot of personal testimonies taking place in regards to the failures western medicine...IN THEIR LIVES.
But you say to that, they don't know how their tongue bone connect to their brain bone so why they drawing conclusions.
If the law gives parents the option of vaccines etc. what you making it mandatory for. It's optional. You act like no other medical professionals disagree.
Other medical professionals disagree. If there are professionals that disagree with you, what's all the fire & brimstone you toss'n out? Weezy can say he's Hip-Hop...that's about bravado. Don't work the same for medicine. You are not medicine. You just one doctor.
If you want to preach truth like you say, pick up a book on marketing, on propaganda, on psychological influence. Get a blog or website and fight! You can do what you want here, but your rational is off when you assert you are challenging bull.
The reality is what you will do for your own blog or website is represented well. People are in search for alternatives. Just like you gave up your grandfather's religion because you searched for an alternative.
You say you strategic with the military training in an argument (whatever that means) but with this energy you got to write and blog you aren't exploiting it. All them posts...damn...your keypad faded? You could have waxed 5 or 6 blogs in this joint.
The context of your mission provides resistance, an antagonist to the story line, another side like it's suppose to...but that's it. You at a Nation of Islam rally passing out Hebrew Israelite fliers.
Gee Chee,
Where you been? Since when have they been mandatory? You don't have to get injected with a vaccine, but then there are consequences, you may be excluded from employment (military, hospitals, etc).
What fire and brimstone? I'm asking you all to understand what you are attempting to discuss, and look to source material rather than biased popular books that are heavy on opinion and light on fact?
Post a Comment