Michigan Chippewa Indian • Mt. Pleasant Reservation • MI, 1891
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KonWomyn said...
KonWomyn said...
I too, have my questions with what Wax is saying, but I'll put that aside for a minute. Say errythang Bra Wax says about Black Indians is true, how are you personally invested in that legacy? I mean Wax is Jamaican and DV's got that Songhai connection - yes/no...So what's it to y'all?Say Bra Wax has some Arawak connection or summin, if the American govt is so set against Moorish people discovering their true identity as y'say, then why don't you hop on a plane to Brazil, South Africa, the UK or anywhere in Europe, stick a swab in your mouth and get the DNA stats on who you are and where you're from?
And if the Plantation scientists 'lie' then one of your other scientists could do the test to verify your claims, rite? What's stopping you? From the way you talk, money def isn't a factor.
I mean you could be on the cover of NewsWeek and National Geographic getting a global platform rather than getting into online arguments with strangers? Why argue with two people, when 200million await?
I don't get this at all. *sigh*
Denmark Vesey said ...
'Mornin' Kay Dub!I hear you *sighing* sista. But I don't know why?
This is just an exchange of ideas. No need to get weary.
Let's address your concerns one at a time. See if we can make you feel better. Cool?
1) "Say errythang Bra Wax says about Black Indians is true, how are you personally invested in that legacy? I mean Wax is Jamaican and DV's got that Songhai connection - yes/no...So what's it to y'all?" KW
a) If it's true ... Truth is our investment.
b) If it's true ... What's your investment in the maintenance of an 'Out of Africa' narrative that is not completely true? What's it to you? Why does the idea that black people are indigenous to the entire Earth and not just Africa bother you so?
2)"why don't you hop on a plane to Brazil, South Africa, the UK or anywhere in Europe, stick a swab in your mouth and get the DNA stats on who you are and where you're from?" KW
I don't need to jump on a plane or pop a swab in my mouth or get any "DNA stats" on where I am from.
I can look in my father's eyes and see where I'm from.
I can look in my son's eyes and see where I'm going.
DNA swabs will show an amalgamation of people from all over the planet earth.
The "Blacks Out of Africa Only" theory which has been spoon fed Plantation Negros is only a meme. An idea. An abstraction.
3) "I mean you could be on the cover of NewsWeek and National Geographic getting a global platform rather than getting into online arguments with strangers? Why" KW
Sista, why would I want to be on the cover of Newsweek? I'm my own Newsweek. I don't need to speak "to the Globe". I'm speaking to you.
I don't need them crackas for validation. I'm not arguing with strangers. I'm teaching students.
CNu and DMG the first cats here in the morning and the last to leave. Because they are in school. Don't let their little playfights fool you. That's some little half-gay charade they maintain to protect fragile egos.
Plantation Negros have a hard time giving another brother his props. It's a relic of some psychological shit their Plantation masters did to them.
30 comments:
"...I'm teaching students"
No, my mentally challenged friend you are pushing half-baked ideas whose only validation is that it's NOT mainstream (or any stream for that matter).
You attempt to obscure your obvious lack of knowledge, and critical thinking by attacking people who see through your charade. You'll only lead sheep, because only sheep are dumb enough to follow you.
The "because I said so" stuff may work on your kids for awhile until they grow up, but MOTI...we aren't kids.
Step up your game.
DMJ, what knowledge do you have that DV doesn't have? He seems to be exploring an idea you seem to want to knock it whatever it is but I don't see your counter-point. Are you saying all blacks are from Africa and there was no Pre-Columbian blacks in the New World OR are you saying DV has no right to discuss these things because he is not qualified to discuss them? It is a very interesting topic to me and many people. I don't have a position but I am open. I am new to blogging and I don't understand why you are so hostile.
Anon,
That's DMG.
"...what knowledge do you have that DV doesn't have"
Are you asking about my credentials? I have a solid foundation in science and medicine. Biochemistry and surgery in particular. But one doesn't need to be a scientist or physician to be able to critique our host. High school should be sufficient if you actually paid attention.
"Are you saying all blacks are from Africa and there was no Pre-Columbian blacks in the New World OR are you saying DV has no right to discuss these things because he is not qualified to discuss them? "
A few things, first what is your definition of "blacks"? Anyone with dark skin? Or of African origin?
If you show me some solid evidence that there were Pre-Columbian African people I'd be ecstatic to read about it. But since you are new to blogging, and likely this particular site, there are a few things you should know about our host. For starters, he's not interested in debate. His evidence? Because he says so. He doesn't believe in science (probably because he doesn't understand the basics). And he freely manufactures "facts". So again, there's no debate. Took me awhile to figure that out, because I work on the assumption that most people are reasonable. He and his flying monkey's Wax and Thordaddy are the worst offenders.
Our host is not qualified to discuss most things with any authority. But neither are most bloggers. I can't discuss Law or Engineering with any authority because it's not my background. But I believe reasonably intelligent people who seek to discuss issues using known facts, and evidence should discuss things. But if a person, say Waxy, is going to pull things directly from his colon...what's the point?
Another thing you should do is check out the past threads. Read the posts. You'll a small group of commenters providing evidence, and the others talking out of the side of their necks. Welcome and enjoy. Also...pick a name.
MOTI,
Wondering if there's something wrong with your blog server. I posted something here twice, saw it in the "Recent Lyrics" and then noticed it was gone.
I know you don't censor you comments section, so I figured I'd give you a heads up.
DMG
Anon,
That's DMG. If you are talking about credentials, I have a solid background in science and medicine, specifically biochemistry and molecular biology, and surgery.
What you should know is that our host does not often deal in facts. He prefers to get his information from dubious sources and known charlatans, who are only interested in pushing a product.
He's not once offered any evidence for his assertions. He has no credibility in my book. I invite you to look at the archives.
Also, pick a name.
The first person was a black woman. At that time there the continents were not as they are now. Present day Africa was joined to the Arabian peninsula, and to Europe etc,. From some point in East Africa, people spread and populated the earth as they moved to different points on the earth, over time they developed different physical characteristics( skin colour, hair type, blood, group etc) in the various sub population.
This is my laymans understanding of the differences in race .
Can someone tell me what the Moorish theory is?
Wsuuup DV!
Thank you for being gracious enuff to take up my concerns. Like you I am invested in truth, we might come at it from different angles, but the end goal is the same. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to concede.
No, I meant for Wax to take the DNA test – since you got that 1 000 year Mali connection (yes/no), you are from the African gene pool and you’re post-Columbus’s timeline. Seeing as I don’t know Wax’s origins he could be the NewsWeek cover boy, pre-van Sertima’s timeline.
But aside from the fun stuff of DNA swabs, fame and glory, I’m not following your logic. Both you and Wax co-sign each other but there are contradictions and implausabilities in your logic.
Take this for example:
Wax says Blacks have always been in America because he subscribes to the expanded earth theory. He then says Blacks in America were shipped to Europe and North Africa and enslaved and then re-enslaved from West Africa to North America again.
Wax, double enslavement??? Over what period did this take place? How did the ‘enslaved Native Americans’ move from North to West? Where is evidence of this – ship records, narratives & all?
DV says that the slave trade never happened, it’s a lie. But when we once worked out the Math, the figures added up. Of course you still dispute this, and y’said how could people in ‘wooden boats’ carry millions over 352 years so DV, how can it be conceivable to you that a double slave trade of at least one million, took place in ‘wooden boats’?
And then there is the respected work of Prof Ivan van Sertima and Dr Walter Rodney and there's Prof Tony Martin's Jewish stuff – but by your theories all of them are wrong… but both you and Wax co-sign on them, despite the glaring contradictions.
Trying to follow this logic feels like being in a mental labyrinth, there are so many twists and turns it makes you weary! iCaaant even get into the expanded earth theory cos’ it’s just another maze of contradictions.
If this is Moorish Science, then it is not science at all.
Accept all substitutes.
Konwomyn,
What DV is saying is that Moorish "science" is equivalent to Western "science" in that what we "observe" manifests at the fundamental material level. Konwomyn "observes" the Trans-Atlantic slave trade and it manifests itself at the material level.
In short, the most dominate memes shape the landscape because we "will" it. And the material universe will "yield" to the most dominant desires.
Peace DV, A video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hguLFbaTHyU&feature=related
DV you said..."What's your investment in the maintenance of an 'Out of Africa' narrative that is not completely true? What's it to you? Why does the idea that black people are indigenous to the entire Earth and not just Africa bother you so?"
I wonder this as well.
In addition Chris come Bus us, writes in his log that he took at least 1500 people back with him to Spain. Author Jack Forbes of Africans and Native Americans writes that many of the offspring of the people Columbus took back were taken
to west Africa. Another book (I can't think of the title) notes the import of corn to west Africa (corn is not native to Africa) brings on a population explosion and many of these people were taken to be enslaved in the Americas and were descendants of the the people Columbus took back with him.
Dr. Barry Fell, writes in his book America B.C., that the story of Asian peoples crossing the Bering Strait was created by the Europeans to satisfy the Catholic Church, to try and explain a population already existing in the Americas.
Pre-historic weaponry found in the Americas in no way resembles weaponry of Asia at the same time period.
kw dv is a gottdam idiot that recycles the same ole shyt u waste ur time by expecting him to answer anything above his pay grade *ahem* reading ability
Thordaddy
I'm sorry I've no idea what you're on abt - fundamental material and material level, what does that mean?
Ensayn1
Yes there are many narratives, but tell me your thoughts, how do you account for the vast genetic and physical difference in Native Indians and Native Blacks. If both groups have always been there & if that Columbus story is true (I don't think so tho'), how come:
*the Native Black Americans were 'resistant to the tropics of Africa' yet when taken to India the Native American Indians died bec of diseases.
*same when the Europeans conquered America, the Indians died, Blacks didn't.
* Native Blacks stayed the same & have similar physical characteristics to West Africans - hair, skin, body shape etc, despite the difference in the climates of North America and West Africa.
*if they didn't originate from there, why do Native Blacks have genetic characteristics indicating varying % of African ancestry? OTOH Native Indians underwent physical and genetic changes due to climate and isolation? And they are thought to come from one ancestral group whereas Native Blacks aren't?
Are all these scientists wrong and all the evidence just a part of the Plantation's misinformation campaign against Black people?
- Of course I'm not only asking Ensayn1, so those who know, help me out here. And if anyone's taken a DNA test proving they're of the Native Blacks, I'd genuinely be interested to know.
Anon
You need a name. Please. LOL, if he or anybody else can't answer me, it means Kaaay Duub's the GOAT of Question Asking. *getting ready to pop my collar* ; )
BTW am watching the video.
Konwomyn,
If one is going to lean on "science" then one ought to know the fundamental assertion of materialist science..
What we "observe" manifests at the quantum level.
If we "observe" the blacks out of Africa theory then the material configuration at the quantum level will manifest in such a way as to present evidence of the blacks out of Africa theory.
I know it sounds crazy, but the dominate memes shape our landscape. Our collective "observations" manipulate matter at the fundamental quantum level.
Thordaddy
I'm totally clueless, I don't understand what you are saying.
@KonWomyn,
You ask "*the Native Black Americans were 'resistant to the tropics of Africa' yet when taken to India the Native American Indians died bec of diseases.
I cannot address this fully as I am not aware of so called Native Americans being taken to India. I am concerned becasue this does ring as an untruth, since the Tropics of Brazil and the tropical weather of the Caribbean and even what is now the State of Florida could not be that much of a stretch from the tropics of India. So why would they die? True it makes no sense. I don't think I could explain that.
You state "*same when the Europeans conquered America, the Indians died, Blacks didn't"
I don't quite believe this story. To accept this would be to believe the Indian died, and is to accept that the Indian were not the Blacks. Black people certainly includes Black skinned people to the highest yellow light skinned people. St. Augustine, Florida shows historical data they shipped over 10 thousand "Indians" into the Caribbean per year. Charleston, SC notes the same figures. The New Georgia Encyclopedia writes of the "Indian" slave trading into the Caribbean. http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-585
If the "Indian" died easily, why create a business with them as the product. Slaving was (is) a business.
Professor Patricia Penn Hilden has an essay online entitled Hunting North American Indians in Barbados. You may find it an interesting read.
You state "* Native Blacks stayed the same & have similar physical characteristics to West Africans - hair, skin, body shape etc, despite the difference in the climates of North America and West Africa.
If you have ever lived in southern states of the U.S. You may tend to adjust your thinking about West African climate and North American climate which includes Florida. Yet the Indigenous black people of North America show their migration northward from what is South America and Caribbean into today's North America. Many of my West African friends that live here in Georgia as myself have told me that the heat and humdity here is worse here than where they grew up in Africa. One friend of mine told me she never heard of anyone in their country ever dying due to the heat until she moved here.
As far as physical features changing due to contact with other people or unchanging, I would have to discount European accounts of coming into the Americas prior to Christoper Columbus. Historian Joel A. Rogers points out that these traverlers whether European or African were men and of course they had children with the indegenous people of the Americas. And, we cannot allow ourselves to deny the power of sex. It seems we have a tendency to believe all the Europeans that came to the Americas were somehow pure nordic or anglo looking, when in fact they were not. Also, there is a Masonic lodge Scotland that was built in 1444 and pictographs of corn and agave plants are drawn into the building.
Blacks in the Americas share phycal charistics of West Africans, true. But, we also share physical charistics of South Pacific Islanders, and both are similar to the West African.
That all I will deal with. So, now a question for you or anyone else. If we are all African from the west coast of Africa, why is circumcision of male children almost non existant in the Caribbean and South American people and yet circumcision permeates almost all cultures of Africa?
Brilliant discourse E.
Erudite.
Thank you.
I'm totally clueless, I don't understand what you are saying.
He don't either K-Dub.
The only thing more worthy of a Darwin Award than Moorish Science is Aryan Pseudo-science..,
The greatest danger of our time is total obsession with partial ideas.
All human comprehension, whether it be intuitive understanding or scientific explanation, or any blend of these, rests on knowledge with two complementary aspects;
1. Accuracy of detailed facts (precision)
2. Correct arrangement of these into comprehensive generalizations (order)
Moorish Science fails tuuurrrribly in each of these aspects - but makes no claims to truth.
Aryan psuedo-science - embodied as the idiot peasant "thordaddy" - also fails tuuurrribly in each of these aspects, but proclaims itself the absolute truth against which all other systems of precision and order are "radically autonomous".
DeeVee's a vain idiot K-Dub, and his presentations and enthusiasms suffer an incredible lack of both precision and order, coupled with his over-the-top pretensions, he makes a choice subject for ridicule.
thordaddy suffers from the same imprecision and lack of credible order (i.e., he's an ignorant ass) but he's obsessively convinced that his weak and partial fragments are absolute.
This distinction is fundamental. It's what separates the entertainer comedian Bacon-Bey Vesey from the dangerous fundamentalist ideologue thordaddy.
Ensayn1,
Circumcision is but one of many African practices not practised by those taken overseas.Unless there is something more you're getting abt circumcision, I could easily list the practices which stayed in Africa and those that were practiced in the Diaspora - and the point of this whole exercise would be what, exactly?
The video you posted argues that Black Native Americans have been around for 200 million years. Dubious as this, you mean to say through all the different climate ages, they stayed the same? No change in skin, hair or genetic diversity?
Obviously the climate in Georgia today, or 500 years ago is not the same as it was 200 million years ago so that's not an argument. What is America today, has been through numerous Ice Ages through the time Black Native Americans supposedly roamed the earth - sub-zero temps and their skin did not change? Their hair didn't grow thicker?...o.k.
The reason why a Nigerian and Papua New Guinea islander have genetic similarities is because they have a common ancestor. This is why Black Americans today and Africans have similar genetic similarities; there is a common ancestor.
This is part of the Out of Africa theory, that you do not subscribe to, so you can't really be using that as an example otherwise you're admitting common African ancestry.
The reason why Native Americans got infected with diseases was because of difference in environment not weather - just like a person going from Georgia to Lagos you might fall sick for any number of reasons connected to the environment, be it malaria or sleeping sickness.
"You state "*same when the Europeans conquered America, the Indians died, Blacks didn't"
I don't quite believe this story. To accept this would be to believe the Indian died, and is to accept that the Indian were not the Blacks." Ensayn1
I'm distinguishing between Native Blacks and Reds that's why I used the term Indian - but I'm not suggesting there are no Black Indians in the Americas. I'm asking why so many Reds died? And yet when the 'Black Indians' were 'doubly enslaved' (so Wax says) smallpox in North Africa didn't wipe them out? (first smallpox lesions 1157 BC) The domesticated animals of Europeans and North Africans didn't cause them to fall sick?
I don't understand how you can rely on stats to argue about Indians being enslaved in the Caribbean but reject stats on Africans being enslaved in the Caribbean (remembering the last thread we discussed this). What makes that piece of data acceptable but the slavery database untrue?
I'll have a look at the links you mentioned. Thanks.
As general comment to Maafa deniers: it's quite insulting to call it a hoax, especially when there is overwhelming documented and living evidence on both sides of the Atlantic. Fair enough you are trying to make a point about Black Native Americans, but there's no need to rubbish out a people's history and spread falsehoods.
Dr Love is faya.
...peace
"The greatest danger of our time is total obsession with partial ideas.
All human comprehension, whether it be intuitive understanding or scientific explanation, or any blend of these, rests on knowledge with two complementary aspects;
1. Accuracy of detailed facts (precision)
2. Correct arrangement of these into comprehensive generalizations (order)" CNu
This is the most quotable truth of the day!
Selectivity is a crippling, terminal disease.
"DeeVee's a vain idiot K-Dub, and his presentations and enthusiasms suffer an incredible lack of both precision and order, coupled with his over-the-top pretensions, he makes a choice subject for ridicule."
LOL. I wouldn't call him an idiot, just passionate about Black people, and when he's right he's the man, but sumtymz that passion means he gets things wrong and borders on pseudo-historical revisionism.
"Can someone tell me what the Moorish theory is?"
It's the result of having no foundation in science, history, or anthropology combined with an agenda aimed at constructing an historical narrative for a people who had much of their history violently stripped from them. In other words absolute bullshit. You'll notice the silly preoccupation (much like modern day white Americans) with claiming being "native" to this particular continent. Who got here first, who so-called "discovered" the America's...like it's some sort of prize.
"I'm sorry I've no idea what you're on abt - fundamental material and material level, what does that mean?"
Please tell me you aren't just realizing that he speaks in gibberish.
"It's the result of having no foundation in science, history, or anthropology combined with an agenda aimed at constructing an historical narrative" DMG
(Jigaboo does not realize he just described the past 200 years of his Plantation master's history. But like a loyal dog ... he defends the inventions of his master as if his interests and his master's interest were intertwined. In the Plantation MD's case .. they are.)
LOL. I wouldn't call him an idiot, just passionate about Black people, and when he's right he's the man, but sumtymz that passion means he gets things wrong and borders on pseudo-historical revisionism.
Sista K-Dub...,
You have SOOOOO MUCH to learn about the American negro.
The very last thing in the world this iota-phi-theta jiggaboo is passionate about is Black folks.
He's passionate about being popular among - and getting over on - impressionable Black folks.
Hell,
THAT'S.what."school".is.all.about!
But as God is my witness, it is pathologically impossible for the American frat-phi-frat negro or negress to give a dayyum about ordinary everyday Black folk.
These are some dirty, gate-keeping, good for nothing, parasitic fleas whose primary raison d'etre is looking out for self and looking out for their frat-phi-frat pseudo-siblings...,
I find it telling that our host believes only white people are responsible for the strides taken in science, history and anthropology...
...but this isn't surprising. Our host does not understand science, history, or anthropology, so in order to cover this obvious deficit he labels them as "inventions" of an evil all powerful "white" man.
Again, MOTI you are an idiot. And it's not difficult to see.
Konwomyn,
The first thing you must understand is that radical autonomists like CNu KNOW that his fellow "scientists" are feverishly attempting to manipulate matter/energy at the fundamental level. They also understand that at this level, space-time is non-existent.
Science elevated itself under the guise that it provided the best evidence by way of "direct observation" of the phenomena.
Of course, there is no "direct observation" of the "out of Africa theory." So what is there? There is "evidence" through inference, i.e., indirect "observation." You "see" the "out of Africa theory" BECAUSE you want to "see" it IN OTHER PHENOMENA. And because that is how you want to "see" the "evidence," the "evidence" will then materially manifest at the fundamental level.
This is the principled assertion of the atheist "scientist."
Once he started spouting Glenn Beck's Cleon Skousen derived nonsense, the game was pretty much over. What's most interesting to me, however, is how his sources invariably backend to some or another crypto-fascist, white-supremacist lunatic.
It makes me wonder if there's a nexus between those point sources and the frat-phi-frat establisment of which Bacon-Bey is a legacy in high standing?
Konwomyn, The first thing you must understand
..is that thordaddy is an ignorant ass - everything else is merely conversation.
Thordaddy
Third time's the charm they say, but I'm sorry I really don't understand you. Either Oswald Bates turned into a White philosopher overnite ; ) or all this 'fundamental, quantam' whatnot is waaaaay over my head. I'm not hip to this kinda Thorspeak. Its best to chat with those who get it, I'm cool with that.
...peace
Konwomyn,
Knock it off, womyn
U too smart
Tuh play n the dark, womyn
What?
U didn't think the "science" been liberated, womyn
U n denial for the moment
Can't see ur new self-creation
Izza break and not just bent
How u free?
Unless u free from da space-time limit?
How u b sumptin' new
Unless yur sumptin' "physically" different?
How u author?
Unless that difference is, "You done did it."
How u free unless u spit it,
"I am free!"
And the material world will get it,
Feel the "eyes" on it and seek to appease it
Seek to reveal it
Self creation
And u know can feel it...
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