By the way, Mills. That "chaos" as we see it displayed in Gaza is throwing gasoline on the fire for the benefit of Islamo-Fascists throughout the planet.
There's no such thing as an islamofascist. That's as much a myth as the idea that there is a Black race - rather than a distinctive American subculture whose aspirational beliefs and practices most closely approximate the American ideal.
21 comments:
DV: If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a simple and direct question which Fisher lacks the courage to answer (after I've asked it repeatedly on his blog). To wit:
Is Israel morally entitled to exist within its current borders... or is its very existence an injustice?
Perhaps if you answer it frankly and directly, DV, it will inspire Fisher to do likewise... and then I can finally know where he stands.
What up UB? MF fail to answer a direct question? Noooooo. Not my man Fish.
1) No. Israel has as much "right to exist" within its current borders as the old South Africa had the right to exist while indigenous Africans were confined to Bantustans.
The "right to exist" argument for Israel is a euphemism for "Jewish Only State".
2) No. It's unsustainable. Israel cannot "exist" within it's current borders WITHOUT massive US financial and military support / aide / ransom (depending on who is telling the story).
3) No. "Israel" doesn't exist anyway.
It's a political abstraction. A concept. An ideology.
People exist. Some happen to be Palestinians. Some happen to be Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe.
Until the immigrants / invaders / occupiers from Europe and Brooklyn acknowledge the right of the indigenous people to also exist, there will be murder death and destruction.
(Which is the real goal anyway)
How'd I do Mills?
Did I answer simply and directly? Or did I pull a Fisher?
^ DV, you answered with unimpeachable frankness and clarity. Thanks. There can be no confusion about where you stand.
Since Fisher has already clearly proclaimed that "justice" demands that the United States return the land it stole from the Indians, I can't imagine why he's half-stepping now.
On one hand, your position seems to parallel Fisher's own statements regarding the invalidity of settler-European nation-states vis-a-vis displaced indigenous peoples of color.
On the other hand, Fisher boasts of being a fighter against anti-Semitism.
OK Mills. My turn to be direct.
1) Do you believe a homicidal Jewish Only state funded by the American Taxpayer has a right to exist?
2)Did you listen to or read the transcript of Benjamin Freedman's speech, given in 1961 at the Willard Hotel in DC sponsored by the periodical Common Sense?
I ask because I have yet to speak to anyone remotely sympathetic to the Zionist cause who has real knowledge of how Israel was actually created.
Do me a favor man. Peep this if you haven't:
http://denmarkvesey.blogspot.com/2009/01/got-better-explanation-of-how-war.html
1) Do you believe a homicidal Jewish Only state funded by the American Taxpayer has a right to exist?
Rather a loaded question, DV. But my guess is that if state-sponsored killing were a disqualifier for legitimate nationhood, I'm not sure any nation would have a right to exist.
Yet you seem fixated on Israel as somehow uniquely illegitimate. If so, "homicidal" can't be the main reason... lest Uncle Sam's population cull of Amerindians be said to render the United States morally illegitimate as a national entity.
Anyway, I'll check out your link in the coming days.
"which Fisher lacks the courage to answer"
Yep. I'm shivering in my pantalones.
Loaded?
Funny. I thought 'does Israel have a right to exist' was loaded.
OK. How about this.
Does Palestine have a right to exist?
oh. also:
Why not 1 state for the people who have lived there for hundreds of years and those that arrived within the past 50.
A true ... democracy.
Now that you mention it, I cannot think of a state less legitimate than Israel.
Help me out. Name 1:
Why not 1 state for the people who have lived there for hundreds of years and those that arrived within the past 50.
A true ... democracy.
You think that's what the Muslims want? You think that's what Hamas is fighting for? One man, one vote?
Come on, DV, don't start spinning now... after setting a standard for straight talk.
Nah Mills. I think Hamas is fighting for their lives now.
I think after 60 years of stolen land, bulldozed homes, assassinated leadership, hundreds of thousands of men imprisoned killed and tortured, thousands of children burned to death, pregnant women in 5 hour checkpoints, False Flag Operations and now ritual mass killings in a virtual concentration camp - Hamas is a bit beyond 1 man 1 vote.
Hamas, like most Palestinians, concluded long ago the Zionists are acting out some Holocaust revenge fantasy upon them for what the Nazis supposedly did to Jews 70 years ago in Europe.
Now tell me this Mills (I know you are dependent on de facto Israelis to earn a living, but be as honest as you can) - am I to interpret this little charade of objectivity as an assertion on your part that the Zionist state of Israel is not 100% the aggressor in this slow motion racist genocide in Palestine?
If you are implying it's 90 - 10 or 70 - 30 or 50 - 50 or lol 40 - 60 the fault of the Zionist vs the Palestinians - I would pay money to hear your explanation.
What is Hamas / Palestinians doing, you I or most Americans wouldn't do if we were forced from our LA homes and crowded into a walled in Bakersfield - THEN BOMBED?
(hey man. appreciate the discourse. I've yet to encounter ANYONE remotely sincere attempt to defend the actions of Israel in the middle east. You seem more ramped up than the average CNN consuming American, so I am particularly interested in your insight.)
^ Well, thanks for your hospitality, DV. I am ill-equipped to defend the strategy and tactics of Israel or any other nation.
I come at this through long study of the psychology of Jew-hatred, and am thus interested in trying to separate reliable analyses of the Israeli-Palestinian situation from those rooted in an obsessive animus against Jews as Jews.
I'm also interested in challenging people to put their own analyses to the test. For instance, what has Hamas been hoping to accomplish by firing rockets into Israel? Do you think Hamas expects to conquer Israel military? What are its goals and strategies? How wise are they?
How wise would the Afrikaners be to suddenly start firing rockets at ANC government or black civilian targets?
How wise would Puerto Rican nationalists be to start firing rockets at the U.S. mainland?
How wise would the Navajo Nation be to start firing rockets into American cities?
If that's how Hamas chooses to "do politics," then they are responsible for some of the clearly foreseeable consequences.
Bottom line: Everybody's got fucking beefs. The question is... how to settle them wisely.
The wheels are coming off, David. And the comparison of Israel with the settler nations emerging during the Sixteenth Century is specious.
Theocracy and military expansionism of the colonial era served to relieve the pressure of a rapidly swelling Europe. Israel, in contrast, has no such demographic and capitalistic imperatives. It is an abstraction which became concretized as a very important piece in the geopolitical chessmatch of the Cold War and nascent Arab nationalism.
None other than Hannah Arendt foresaw the internal contradictions of a Jewish state and advocated for pluralism. Israel is what the Confederate States of America could have become if the British had chosen to intervene on behalf of the South. But with massive subsidization by America coming to an end, Israel and the US are being forced to cogitate an alternate plan for existence.
"I come at this through long study of the psychology of Jew-hatred," UBM
Ahhhh. Wonderful.
I too am fascinated with the concept of "Jew-hatred". Really. I am.
I wonder how "Jew-hatred" is different from plain ol'... "hatred"?
Why does a Jew garner a separate and unique term for hatred directed towards him, and a Mexican doesn't? Are new immigration restrictions anti-Chicano?
What do we call hatred of Hawaiians? Hatred of Baptists? Hatred of Cajuns? Hatred of Quakers?
I mean, there is no question of Zionist word wizardry in view of their success in making the ridiculous neologism "anti-Semitism" a powerful psychological weapon.
For example Abe Foxman is no more "Semitic" than is Yao Ming.
Yet, the mere threat of the anti-Semitic label has an increasingly hypnotic, taming effect upon even the most intelligent people, who seem to have been sucked into the quicksand of Zionist propaganda.
If "anti-Semitism" didn't exist ... could Israel?
See Mills, increasingly, in America one is called "Anti-Semitic" not when they hate Jews, but when some Jews hate them.
[For the record, I attack Group Identity Politics even when the beneficiaries are black. Which is why I reject Fisher's Global System of White Supremacy.
It's all a lame hustle for unmerited entitlement.]
Mills...
"Is Israel morally entitled to exist within its current borders... or is its very existence an injustice?"
Off kourse ze Israel iss entitled to exist. ESPECIALLY vifin ze current borders. Ei am so happy zhat ze Jewish piple saw ze visdom in mooving doun among ze Semites, ze Arabs, insteead off klaiming ze Northern Germany and our koastline and did not displace our pretty, blue-eyed, blond Arier from zeir homeland as did ze terrible Poles and Russians.
I am alzo so zankful zhat the forgifing Jewish piple did not punish us vor aua misdeeds and instead punished someone else for zem.
Greetings from my Opa Schickelgruber, by ze vay.
So ja, Herr Mills. Off kourse the Israel should appsolutely stay in its CURRENT borders. Appsolutely.
I alzo vant to zank the Jewish God zhat he said ze Jerusalem iz the kapital zity of ze Jews and not Hamburg. I zink ze Jewish God is just great!!!!
I would add that a seriously neglected aspect to the current conflict is the competition between Hamas and Fatah. War, as explained by Clausewitz, is politics by other means. The firing of rockets is less about its military value than it is about ensuring Hamas' legitimacy as an organ for expression of Palestinian goals, frustrations, defiance, and role as a player in future negotiations.
The irony is that after years of buffeting the PLO, the American-Israeli establishment indirectly nurtured the ascendancy of the more radical outlets and would now love nothing more than to return to the post-Munich days when the PLO was the only contender.
But make no mistake, effusions of unrestrained violence are very common in the period immediately before resolution. The heaviest and most widespread bombing of Indochina, for example, occurred during the Nixon administration years after the limits of air power were realized. The Israeli public, moreover, is not nearly as monolithic as popularly presented.
In risible fashion Mr. Fisher has made the credible assertion that if Israel is about justice and restoration of Jews it should've been carved from a German state, which was , after all, the citadel of Jewish intellectual and cultural production.
Ahhhh. Great point Sub. I forgot about the ... rockets.
Asking why Hamas is firing rockets at Israel is like asking why some Jews sabotaged Nazi trains in Germany.
The seige of Gaza by Israel in and of itself is an act of violence that has taken countless Palestinian lives, even during the so-called "cease-fire".
Where as more people have been killed on Texas highways by hitting deer than have died in Israel because of rocket fire.
The US might as well bomb Tiawana because Mexican laborers cut holes in the border fence.
These so-called Jews are actually descendants of a Mongolian people from Central Asia, who adopted Judaism by conversion around 740 A.D.
They have no lineal connexion with the Biblical Hebrews, and hence only a squatters' claim to the crossroads of the Near East thousands of miles from where they originated.
The name of this Oriental tribe is the Khazars and their history is extremely interesting. They are also known as Polish Jews or Russian Jews, and in Hebrew as Ashkenazim (from the Hebrew word for Germany).
"What is Hamas / Palestinians doing, you I or most Americans wouldn't do if we were forced from our LA homes and crowded into a walled in Bakersfield - THEN BOMBED?"
Essentially, Israeli parasites forced their native hosts onto a reservation on their own land that keeps getting smaller and smaller and turning more into a child concentration camp everyday.
Kucinich on Gaza: 50 Percent of Gaza Population Under 14 Years Old
Ron Paul on Gaza, Non-Interventionism
AIPAC on Gaza: H. Res. 34: Recognizing Israel’s right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirming the United States’ strong support for Israel, and supporting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process (passed Fri with 390 yeas, only 5 nays)
Obama on Gaza
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