If you are a man, over 30, and there is not a woman who considers you "her man" ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'.If you are a male over 30 who says he wants to bond with a woman and start a family ... but can't find "the right one" ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'.
If you like sex ... but don't care for girls enough to be with one ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'.
If you are a man, over 30, and you roll to parties ... with your boy ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'.
If you are a man who has allowed the state, feminism or the legal system to prevent you from bonding with a woman ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'.
Not Having A Woman Is 80% Of Being A Homosexual
61 comments:
Denmark I understand what your trying to do( stimulate Men into action by insulting that which we hold dearest.. our manhood. Instead of saying "youz a fag for handcuffing ho's" you are reversing the meme. That's what I like about this site. but that's ridiculous unless what youre saying is in jest. Im 28 year old complicated man..If I haven't found my "michelle obama yet why would I settle for Robin givens just because I ve been here 10000 days?? ridiculous... but or me to take it literal would b ridiculous too... DV it matters not if Im not married till 40.. there is nothing on this earth that could make Ill A proverbial de facto homo! Yes I want kids but Im all about education and aesthetics!! My bitch ( my queen, my baby my mami my love) gots to have it together and Im not settling!!!
ILLMATH wrote the first comment
this made me laugh:
"Not having a woman is 80 percent of being a homosexual."
Ludicrous, yet also true.
Hilarious.
Mr. Denmark Vesey I want to preface this verbal 187 by saying I respect you kind sir and may I also add that you are a gentleman and a scholar....
Denmerk vesey homie you cant feel me or taste me no homo
your rhymes sweet like the treats from the bakery
My body of work is melanin
yours is weak like a "pasty"
cant game me Im like a Rothchild
Im a child of endogamy
God is my best bud
you believin' in fairy tales
like inherent evil in women as men destroy wherever they dwell
Illmath is like the swell of the ocean on the continental shelf to immerse the churches not approved by Ms. Glaswell
on or offline I penetrate minds like porcupine needles leaving those resigned and feeble
Illmath's office is DV 's hospice
I'll off you under the auspices of the law and profit
Illmath takes the Energy from the worlds Mass
and fart it Square out my ass
expand the universe with Illmathius gasus
And you'll breath it for survival
Illmathism you'll believe is your revival
your savior singing vapidly w clownish behaviour
singin'
"Illmath is empirical truth"
Denmark V is the the hallucination of a drug induced youth
.. just havin fuuuuunnn
Ill clings to glass ceilings while you cling to the bible and guns
Dissect this rhyme my friend and learn
Respect!!
I wish you could all actually hear the flow.. it's crazy
Illmath,
You don't "find" the right woman, you shape her into what you need her to be. Man up. Nice flow.
True indeed The State of.. but your can't create a masterpiece with silly puddy... I need the right clay... I can't have my magnum opus (that ive spent years creating) fracturing in the oven when the heat turns up.. thanks tho I agree my flow IS sick...
I dunno, I think the 2-tone baby blue turtleneck and o-ring goat are at least 70% of being homo...
BTW, this is a great interview with Mark Rudov here.
Ill I see you don't know,
That you really are a defacto Homo
Sexual not sapien
You mind needs to be shaped again.
Thinkin you a pimp cause you flippin hoes
When in reality you the only one who don't know
That in 18 short months or so,
By the time you hit the big 3 0
We gonna have to slap a rainbow
On the back of your volvo
By the way, nice photo.
I think I own that exact same turtleneck. LOL!!
LOL... Wayne.. LMBAO!!! I got something for you in a sec...maybe tommorow.. Byrd that shit made me laugh out loud too!
WHy did you have to say that Ill have to slap a rainbow sticker on my volvo Im laughing so hard I had to post again..lol.. Question why can;t anyone except that I drop the most luminous jewels..Expecting props for my rhymes from DV is like asking Aipac to congratulate Byrdeye.. GOod GOd that was funny Big Wayne...
For the record Obama and Michelle started dating after Obama was 30 years old
What up Ill,
Don't dig too deep in your 5th grade rhyme book to get at Big Wayne. So go on and scribble something hot for The Big.
As for me:
Ima venereal disease like a menstrual bleed..
Threw the pencil and leak the sheet of the tablet in my mind,
Cuz I dont write shit cuz I aint got time -Weezy F.
Wayne, that was good.
Wayne, you are in wrong business my man. You should have a record deal.
Heh. How old are you DV? I'm 26, and I've had my fair share of bonds with women. Plenty of people I know—including myself—have been convinced that they found "the one", only to have the whole thing fail miserably. I'm guessing you're somewhere in your 40s. Thing is, with women my age, a lot them ain't about shit. I'd say that a lot of people don't exhibit the beginning stages of relationship-level sanity until 25 or so. Finding one that isn't straight up trifiling prior to that is rare.
You say that, "If you like sex ... but don't care for girls enough to be with one ... there's a good chance you are a 'De Facto Homo'", but I'm just not seeing how you reach that conclusion. The first person I thought of when I read this was George Clooney. The dude is ass deep in ass and hasn't settled down with one yet. Is George Clooney a 'De Facto Homo'? I don't think so. The Player™ character in America isn't going anywhere, so using the presence of a monogamous relationship as the basis for determining a man's sexuality doesn't seem like it's capturing all of the possibilities. You can be straight and just not have the desire to settle down. Or it could be as simple as a dude not having any game. Personally, I'd rephrase this post to read, "Defacto Non-Game-Having-Dude". If you haven't hooked up with a woman by the time you're 30, it's possible that you just don't have any game. It's not like singles bars and speed dating scenes popped up out of nowhere, and everyone doesn't develop at the same pace. 'Hitch' and the '40 Year Old Virgin' are probably accurate portrayals of everyday people who are plain old socially inept.
Here's the thing: If a dude is over 30 and hasn't hooked up with a woman yet it's easy to see how he might be suspect, but your criteria for what constitutes the 'De Facto Homo' is on shaky ground due to the fact that there is a segment of the female population that basically refers to anything they don't understand as "gay". If a dude isn't the thug type, he must be "gay". If a dude speaks properly, he must be "gay". If a dude wears Dockers™ and Kenneth Coles™ instead of Girbaud™ jeans and TImberlands™, then he's "gay". And so on and so forth.
Plus, there are plenty of married dudes out there who are fruity on the down-low. Just because a dude has a ring on his finger in the day doesn't mean that he doesn't turn into Fruity McFruiterson at night.
Gray Conservative,
You have completely missed the point as is evidenced by your reference to Geo Clooney.
Being "ass deep in ass" is not an accomplishment.
If you earned 20 mill per movie and couldnt be "ass deep in ass" you should probably just shoot yourself.
The greater feat is crafting something lasting with one woman. That takes far more "game" and strength. You may have enough game to captivate a chick for a night or 6 months, but eternally maintaining her interest and committment is something altogether different and the thing you should be striving for not rejecting.
Theres somewhere around 40 million women in LA County alone. (LOL). Quit whining, find one and make it work.
Jesus, according to this standard, was a de facto homo.
Standing ovation to Robyn! Well said.
Gray, a man's skill at leadership is nowhere better evidenced than in his family status. Leading a family is the ultimate in leadership, which is why you don't see very many single tycoons or mafia dons. A man who can't or won't lead a family usually can't lead much else.
Nah Sub, Mary M. was Jesus' girl.
"Gray Conservative,
You have completely missed the point as is evidenced by"
Uh, no, it's pretty obvious that you missed the point of what I wrote since I never said that monogamy, family, or marriage were "bad". You jumped the gun. DV's main premise was that the absence of a monogamous relationship meant that a dude over 30 was fruity; that's what I was addressing, so I'm not even sure how your little 'C' rant applies to the A and B conversation DV and I were having.
DV is too focused on the fruity tutti thing.
Why is that?
As for me:
Pfffbbtttttt...
You all be digital earwax
I dig you with my digits
And flick you both back
Woot, who that be?
It's tha Big Bird
To tha E-Y-E
Lifting heads up
Like anti-gravity..
And real game is not about mere quantity or length of monogamy. It's about the QUALITY of the chicks you can mesmerize and the HOLD you have over them. At will.
Gray,
Clearly you aint ready.
Beside the fact that you obviously have no clue what "de facto" means, did you really just type "A & B conversation"?
That was cute. Step your game up young man.
"Gray,
Clearly you aint ready."
Ready for what, to compete with you in the textual Special Olympics?
You're right though, I'm not ready. There's simply no way I'm going to compete with you in this three inch hurdle race. You can have the track to yourself.
"That was cute. Step your game up young man."
Not a problem, since all I have to do is step it up to a level that's a bit higher than the soap box you're currently on—which isn't really that high when you consider that my basic discussion of DV's premise and conclusion caused you to swing at something that wasn't there, and you've been trippin' ever since. Or maybe you were smoking when you made that reply, so I might have to step it up a bit higher to get on your level. Excuse me your highness.
Oh, and since you're lecturing me, I'm gonna assume you're happily married, because I'd have to laugh at a single chick trying to school me on the virtues of monogamy.
Gray. Take it from an old man. You're still a petulant boy. Don't embarrass yourself and shut up. Once that wetness behind your ears dries up a bit your time will come and you'll be able to deal with a woman.
Hold up Fish, aren't you divorced?
Explain the process to me then, wise one.
Did you decide that your ears had finally dried up enough for you to jump into the marriage pool, or did you find out what wet really was after your divorce? All the dry ears in the world don't prepare you for unexpected circumstances and the twists and turns of reality.
But nah, I'm not gonna Tu Quoque you like that Fish. I'm sure you've got plenty of experience and can make some good suggestions for someone such as myself, but don't expect me not to laugh at you when you jump righteous at me with this "petulant boy" rhetoric. I'm not trying to deal with a woman. I'm not trying to handle a woman. I'm trying to co-exist with a woman like an adult. Not "handle" one; not "deal" with one; co-exist with one.
Everybody in this thread got something to say about everything except the main topic:
Premise: A monogamous relationship is the measure by which we determine sexuality.
Premise: A man over 30 is not in a monogamous relationship.
Conclusion: The man is a de facto Homo.
I'm trying to find out DV's logical reasoning for reaching this conclusion while everyone else except Submariner is blabbing about side issues. Since DV hasn't spoke up yet, all I can do is wait.
Stop trying to lecture and step your logic up. If you feel that the conclusion flows logically from the premise, then say how.
" Gray. Take it from an old man. You're still a petulant boy. "-MF
LOL! Fisher, you sure have a way with words.
And Byrd...WTF. You could have saved that romper room rap for well....romper room. Come correct or stay at home.
Now thats a freakin post Gray.
Leave all the rest of that junior high bullshit alone.
Now as to the substance, again, I think the problem is that you think DV's assertion is a literal one. Hence, your need for one thing to "flow logically" from the next thing.
Why dont you step back from all that and see that what the man was trying to convey was that having a lasting relationship with a women should be goal A#1 for hetero sexual men. His point was that everything else should be secondary to this. His point was that folks, heterosexual black men like yourself, have been socialized to actually believe shit like "women arent sane until atleast 25" and then after that "they still may tear you down."
All mumbo jumbo if you ask me. No, every woman aint meant to be your wife. BUt the more you embrace the oft-repeated mumbo jumbo the less likely you are to find the woman that IS meant to be your wife. When she shows up, you'll be somewhere assuming she's crazy or that you arent ready.
The crazy thing about this whole debate is precisely what has occurred here. You -- someone who claims to want a wife and family -- is the one with the biggest problem with a proposition that simply tells you to go out and find that which you claim to actually want.
What exactly are you mad at?
And because I really think you didnt know, de facto means, ummmm, in this case "might as well be." Think of it this way. If your over 30 and dont have a woman than you "might as well be" gay.
Does that help or are you still over there upset with your drawls in a bunch?
"Now thats a freakin post Gray.
Leave all the rest of that junior high bullshit alone."
Yeah right, like I'm supposed to be high minded from jump street when dudes are on here rap battling each other every other post? LOL, spare me these delusions of sophistication. How's this, whenever you're in a thread I'll make sure to speak in professor mode so you won't get mad.
"Now as to the substance, again, I think the problem is that you think DV's assertion is a literal one. Hence, your need for one thing to 'flow logically' from the next thing."
This was DV's post, I'll leave it to him to say whether or not he meant it literally, unless you feel like you can speak for him on his own blog.
"The crazy thing about this whole debate is precisely what has occurred here. You -- someone who claims to want a wife and family -- is the one with the biggest problem with a proposition that simply tells you to go out and find that which you claim to actually want."
Wrong again. I never said I had a "problem" with the general message of "go forth and propagate". DV is saying more than just go out and find "that which you claim to actually want". DV is saying that if you haven't accomplished that by X time, then you might as well be gay; at which point I brought up a few scenarios that would cause that process not to flow as smoothly for some as it does for others. Simple statement, but you somehow managed to confuse this and interpreted what I was saying as a general disagreement with monogamy in general, hence your cliched response of "step yo game up".
"What exactly are you mad at?"
Uh, what are you mad at?
My questioning had to do with DV putting a time limit on the process and then asserting that any failure to accomplish said goal was evidence of Homoness, real or literal. Submariner basically said the same thing.
I wasn't mad at anything, it's just that you were so busy high-fiveing and co-signing with Wayne and everyone else that you jumped the gun when I had something critical to say which caused you to start blabbing to me about stepping my game up for no good reason (as if DV needs you rushing to his defense). Sorry if I interrupted your co-sign convention.
"Think of it this way. If your over 30 and dont have a woman than you 'might as well be' gay."
That's a ridiculous standard.
So if DV takes his boy to play on a little league football team that is coached by a single heterosexual male over 30, is he gonna feel uncomfortable with having the coach be in the same locker room as his kid because the dude "might as well be gay"?
That doesn't make any sense. But then you got guys like Intellectual Insurgent up in here saying that the dude can't be a good coach because only a family man can be a good leader, LOL! Is this what marriage does to people?—causes them to set up retarded litmus tests and put a bunch of stigmas on everyone else who isn't married?
My drawls are just fine. Perhaps it is your panties that are bunched up m'lady.
...A bunch of married people, up in a thread, on a blog, dumping a shit-ton of stigmas on people who aren't married by a certain point in their lives; the worst of which is, "they might as well be gay". Excuse me if I find that a bit typical, self-serving, and silly. But like I said, I'll wait for DV to post up, not his proxies.
Gray...
Gray...
"I'm not trying to deal with a woman. I'm not trying to handle a woman..."
Exactly.
My response was not about your response to DV (last I heard he was not a woman), it was about your response to Robyn. You didn't listen to what she was sayin'. It's likely 'cause of that wetness in your ears.
Lighten up, kid. You'll learn.
I see you still on that A & B shit.
LOL.
Gray...
"Perhaps it is your panties that are bunched up m'lady."
Who the fuck says shit like this to a woman?
(((shakin' head)))
...and Insurgent is a woman.
Insurgent is a woman? Didn't know that. Point still stands.
You didn't listen to what she was sayin'.
She wasn't saying much Fish. In her original reply she went on a rant about how you needed strength and not game to have a monogamous relationship. She zeroed in on game and didn't address social ineptitude or any of the other factors involved in determining why a man over 30 would have troubles in finding "the one".
Who the fuck says shit like this to a woman?
WTF? So it's cool for her to say this to me, "Does that help or are you still over there upset with your drawls in a bunch?", but I can't say her panties are in a bunch? What type of double standard are you working with? ...Unless you meant so say that my line wasn't suave enough for this married lady who is posting in the same space as me on the internet, in which case you're just retarded.
Pick your balls up cousin, this woman got you digitally hen-pecked.
She zeroed in on game and didn't address social ineptitude or any of the other factors involved in determining why a man over 30 would have troubles in finding "the one". -- Gray
I'll type slow.
troubles, social ineptitude, no game, pigeon toes, athlete's foot....
The point is, none of it matters. The point is get fuckin chick.
The point is get whatever courage, cream or charisma you need to get a fuckin chick.
Just get one.
Do you understand that?
Mike aint hen pecked. He just likes women. As he should.
Aint since your stuck in 7th garde, I'm not saying Mike digs me. He digs females and was actually tryin' to teach you something.
Gray. My father told me this adage once when I was a teenager. I think it is well known.
"When I was a young male, my father was an idiot, when I grew to be a man my father became a fountain of wisdom".
Turned out he was right.
Stop embarrassing yourself and shut up.
In other news, a lady just told me that her son now (I think he's around 30ish) has 7 kids by 5 different mothers.
And she blamed it on the girls trying to "trap" him.
Anyone care to guess what race he is?
He's the race that will be here as long as their are still people.
byrdeye...
"In other news, a lady just told me that her son...
Donald Trump?
byrdeye...
"In other news, a lady just told me that her son..."
Thomas Jefferson?
byrdeye...
"In other news, a lady just told me that her son..."
Strom Thurmond?
Does Byrdeye just like to leave random racist messages for fun?
He's entertaining.
John McCain left his crippled wife after waited for years for him to return from a POW camp and then married a future drug addict who was rich and connected.
Guess which race he is?
Kevin Federline?
byrdeye...
"In other news, a lady just told me that her son..."
Henry the 8th?
byrdeye...
"In other news, a lady just told me that her son..."
Bubba in the trailer?
Fisher,
That was HU-larious!
LOL! So Mike, it's cool for her to say my draws are in a bunch but I'm mean and wrong if I tell her that hers are bunched up? ROFL! You big wussy you. Ol' snuggle bear ass. I don't think I've ever seen a dude this emasculated over the internet before. Nah, scratch that, you're e-masculated. If anyone should stop talking to avoid further embarrassment it's you. LOL@ Benny Henpecked trying to hip me to some religion.
I'll type slow.
As if the speed of your keystrokes is going to make your argument any more coherent or your message any less redundant with regard to the words on the screen. Birds go flying at the speed of dumb but it doesn't change the direction of the wind.
"The point is get whatever courage, cream or charisma you need to get a fuckin chick.
Just get one."
Yeah okay. This is like, Common Sense 101 but you act like you're dropping some sort of esoteric, mystic knowledge about relationships. As if every straight dude on the planet doesn't instinctively try to accomplish this. What's not to understand?
This is why I love posting on other people's blogs. There's always a core cadre of self-serving co-signers who post regularly and are always so convinced that they're running the rhetorical show that they feel like they can squash any dissenters simply by telling to sit down, shut up, and be quiet. There's always the little grunts you have to wade through before you get to engage the actual author of the post. It's a process I'm familiar with so I basically tried to cut it short by A&B'ing my way out of it. Of course, rjesq wasn't having any of that and flanked me. It's all good, but please spare me the old bullshit about, "Sit down and listen to the old folks sonny, you might learn something." Kill that noise.
"Aint since your stuck in 7th garde, I'm not saying Mike digs me. He digs females and was actually tryin' to teach you something."
What the hell is there to teach, chivalry?
What do you suppose his rationale was for rushing to your defense when I speculated about your panties being in a bunch, but yet he didn't make a peep when you asked me about my own damn draws prior to me making my statement to you in return?
He was all, "Zomg! I can't believe you'd speak to a woman in such a way!!" So he came to your defense because he "likes women"? So I'm just supposed to take your jabs and not hit back because you're a female? No. That right there is the type of nice guy shit that causes some of these dudes to be single well into their 40s.
Rjesq, are you married? If the answer is anything other than "yes" or "about to be" then I don't see the point of you speaking on the subject so vigorously in lieu of the blog author making an official appearance.
"Does Byrdeye just like to leave random racist messages for fun?"
If I didn't say what race he is, how is it racist?
BTW, I think if you combined the number of children by all the White guys listed here combined, it would be about the same as this guy, lol.
Yeah okay. This is like, Common Sense 101 but you act like you're dropping some sort of esoteric, mystic knowledge about relationships.
-- Gray
Then why dont you get it? Why have you been ranting against it for two whole days know if its all so simple.
"Rjesq, are you married?"
No, not currently. But please dont take that answer as being indicative of singlehood. If he had it his way, I woulda been married in April. 4 months after we met. Unlike him, I'm newer on the block and slower on the draw. I like to pace things a bit. Unlike you, he aint scared sitting around makng excuses. Not to mention, he quickly recognized the much needed ying to his yang as soon as her saw on the treadmil. I'd have him come school you but he's not much of a typer.
Gray, it ain't got nuthin' to do with chivalry. It's got to do with your ego. You are cat fighting. Women don't like that in men. That's some gay shit.
typo.
as soon as he saw her.....
If he had it his way, I woulda been married in April. 4 months after we met. Unlike him, I'm newer on the block and slower on the draw.
IOW, you're killing time with this wussbag waiting for a real man...
One thing I've learned with women is:
"not now" = "not you"
:D
Which is not to say they would never settle, either...given limited options...
One thing I've learned with women is:
"not now" = "not you"
perhaps this accounts for your perspective.
^ So, you agree with me then.
Nope. I know how to say NOT YOU really well. and it dont come out anything like NOT NOW.
LMAO!!! I swear to god, you must be trying to kill me with laughter today Fish. It's about my ego?! ROFL! Now I am going to Tu Quoque you. Aren't you the guy who was just at Cobb bragging about how much money you make and telling Bowen he's a failure? And that his company let him go because he was black? Aren't you the same Fisher that was cat fighting with Bowen and dropped the n-bomb on him to boot? Har-dee-friggin-har Fish. You got some nerve speaking to me about "ego". If cat fighting with a women is gay, then what is cat fighting with another man considered?;— because you do it all the time.
Then why dont you get it? Why have you been ranting against it for two whole days know if its all so simple.
Wow. Again, for the past two days, I've been trying to explain to you without success that I'm not questioning this simple, common sense message. My questioning to DV, again, had to do with DV's value judgment that basically said that a dude over 30 "might as well be gay" if he didn't fit the criteria. Again, Sub basically raised the same question regarding the standard being used. "Damn DV, why the dude gotta be gay, real or literal?" That's all I'm asking, and I'm sure DV wouldn't take any issue with the nature of the questio, but you took it to a whole 'nother level; for what reason, I don't know.
"Unlike you, he aint scared sitting around makng excuses. Not to mention, he quickly recognized the much needed ying to his yang as soon as her saw on the treadmil. I'd have him come school you but he's not much of a typer."
See what I'm saying, Fish? Who is sniping who here? Now I could just as easily come back with an equally catty comment and bomb back, but according to you I'm just supposed to sit back while she unloads haymakers on me? I asked her a simple question and she then used the opportunity to get a lick in, LOL. I'm not even mad though.
If she can't take it, why is she dishing it out? I swear, you guys are all over the place. One day it's praising Hip Hop and 50 Cent for now kowtowing to the feminist agenda, then the next day it's all about letting the women who post here textually powerbomb you without saying anything back. I could fill up pages just quoting lyrics that make fun of dudes for falling in love, but at the same time, isn't hip hop lauded around here as some last bastion of masculinity?
Come on now y'all, can't have it both ways.
Gray...
"Aren't you the guy who was just at Cobb bragging about how much money you make and telling Bowen he's a failure? And that his company..."
Gray, now it looks like you can't read either.
"but according to you I'm just supposed to sit back while she unloads haymakers on me?"
And that hurts your ego. Right?
See, the thing about cat fighters and gay men appears to be the necessity to always have the last word in.
You can't upman a woman, and you certainly can't upwoman her.
Change the tone of your discourse. Stop screeching. And you'll get somewhere.
"And that hurts your ego. Right?"
Wrong. It doesn't hurt me one bit. And I give people the last word all the time.
Funny how the guy who called another man the n-word on a public blog is now lecturing me about cattiness and oneupsmanship. You're the cattiest cat fighter of them all Fish. I haven't called her out of her name or said anything overly mean to her at all, so what's your point? In fact I've been pretty civil, considering that so far she's told me:
..."stop whining"
..."step your game up."
..."are you still over there upset with your drawls in a bunch?"
..."your stuck in 7th garde"
..."Unlike you, he aint scared sitting around makng excuses" (in reference to her man)
None of that hurts my ego, but hey, she set the tone of the discourse in her first response to me and I simply responded in kind; in fact I was a lot nicer in my comments. Of course in your world, the tone of her discourse is excusable and proper because she has a vagina and is trying to "teach me a lesson", while I'm wrong simply because I possess a penis. Not all of us can be as henpecked as you, Fish.
You two can have the last word. I'll post again if DV shows up.
DV, did show up. Peep the Hugh Heffner post up top.
I haven't called her out of her name or said anything overly mean to her at all, so what's your point? In fact I've been pretty civil, considering that so far she's told me
Well, feminists can't defend their positions logically, so they prefer to skip the formalities straight to the ad hominem attacks.
At this point, you're supposed to immediately kowtow (HAI!), hand over your nuts in a jar, apologize profusely and roll over.
What's wrong with you? You been reading the first 85% of my blog or listening to Mark Rudov or Tom Leykis???! :D
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