Sunday, June 29, 2008

Why Not?


24 comments:

Anonymous said...

not as as effective as the peters map, but it works.

btw, your blog is visually stunning. 'love your choice of images.

Denmark Vesey said...

Thank you Esther.

I'm not hip to the Peters map. What is that?

Submariner said...

just did a google search.....interesting

Anonymous said...

it basically offers a more proportional (accurate) representation of the size of the continents. a friend of mine who has one hipped me to it.

http://www.petersmap.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall-Peters_projection

Michael Fisher said...

The more important question is why?

All-Mi-T [Thought Crime] Rawdawgbuffalo said...

because that is the way the rivers flow. not to mention
well i wont go into geographic history

Denmark Vesey said...

Michael Fisher said...

"The more important question is why?"

Why is "why" more important?

Denmark Vesey said...

T!

Is that true? Is our graphic perception of the world really shaped by the paths of rivers?

Interesting.

Which way does the Nile flow?

Anonymous said...

The Nile reportedly flows north. (I think). Its sometimes thought of as the only river that flows in that direction. I was just talking with someone about this this weekend. He commented that this may not be true (the part about it being the only one that flows north.)

Anonymous said...

Maybe because "Why" the perception that you have been given of the very shape of the world is intentionally misleading is a window to show you other ways you may have been intentionally misled.

And it ain't got nothing to do with the way the rivers flow, lmao. Even if that was once historical fact, the truth has been evident for far too long to persist in the misconception now.

Denmark Vesey said...

Bra Ex!

Where you been man?

But look. Why don't you just enlighten me. What is this "truth" that you speak?

Representing a round world on a flat map has inherent challenges.

Personally, I am not surprised that the people who mapped the world, photographed it from space, and sell millions of images of it portray the Earth in a manner that reflects their prejudices.

If I mapped the world, New York, LA, Jamaica and Kenya would all be the size of Australia.

My prejudices.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

RJ,

The Nile is indeed the only river that flows north.

Anonymous said...

Been hustlin' brah. You will soon see the fruits of my labors, in the form of Nia Imani.

The truth I refer to is the actual shape and size of the continents. It's pretty disingenuous to suggest it's simply a matter of ease when fitting the picture on a globe.

"If I mapped the world, New York, LA, Jamaica and Kenya would all be the size of Australia."

Since that's the case, you should be in a good position to explain why you would do something so intentionally misleading? what purpose would it serve your prejudice to attempt to convince yourself and others that perception is different than reality?

Denmark Vesey said...

"Since that's the case, you should be in a good position to explain why you would do something so intentionally misleading? what purpose would it serve your prejudice to attempt to convince yourself and others that perception is different than reality?" Exodus


Because. I. Can.

Anonymous said...

Interestingly, 65%-75% of the planet is submerged underneath water.

And likewise, a young person is also about 70% water.

As above, so below...

Anonymous said...

DV I'll give you another chance at that because you are not an infant, yet that was an infantile answer. There are many things that you "can" do right now that you don't do. So saying that you would do this, "Because. I. Can.", is patent nonsense. Unless you care to explain in more detail, I have no choice but to believe you are at a loss for a legitimate response.

@ Birdeye, is there some hidden relevance to that, or are you trying to change the subject?

Denmark Vesey said...

Actually Ex,

I think "Because. I. Can." is very sensible.

Asking why the presumed "white" people of whom we speak and whom we seem to suggest are responsible for the graphical misrepresentation of the world overrepresented Europe at the expense of Africa presumes white people should exercise more objectivity than other people.

My experience, is that black people, given the opportunity, are just as subjective and prejudiced as anyone else.

I've got an uncle swears up and down George Washington Carver invented the Peanut.

Not peanut butter. The PEANUT.

Now, expecting higher levels of magnanimity from other people, than yourself, is de facto subservience.

Had a Nigerian been the first to sail around the tip of South America it could very well be called the Strait of Achebe instead of the Straight of Magellan.

Had an Angolan mapped the world in the 18th Century, South Western Africa would be more prominently displayed than it is.

Because. I. Can. rules the world.

Anonymous said...

"My experience, is that black people, given the opportunity, are just as subjective and prejudiced as anyone else." - DV

I sincerely hope you don't live your whole life based only on the information gleaned from your limited personal experience set. In fact, I know you don't live your life that way from all the posts and comments where you have referenced other forms of knowledge you possess that came from outside your "experience". Since it's about experience, mine is that Black folks never really get that "opportunity" you mentioned.

"I've got an uncle swears up and down George Washington Carver invented the Peanut. Not peanut butter. The PEANUT." - DV

You've got an uncle that's most likely been subjected to enforced ignorance for most of his life, and who has made little effort to overcome that condition. But don't feel bad, we all have ignorant family members. However, we don't all use them as examples of how we should conduct ourselves, and for the life of me, I can't see how you felt this would make your point stronger.

"Now, expecting higher levels of magnanimity from other people, than yourself, is de facto subservience." - DV

Same song, still no melody. I'm subservient because I happen to think that people (all people) should strive to be righteous. I don't expect a higher level from other people, that's your straw man. I also don't go around assuming that because one group of people has been demonstrably unrighteous, that means any other group would behave the same in similar circumstances.

"Had a Nigerian been the first to sail around the tip of South America it could very well be called the Strait of Achebe instead of the Straight of Magellan.
Had an Angolan mapped the world in the 18th Century, South Western Africa would be more prominently displayed than it is." - DV

Would that make it right or righteous? In fact Africans were the first to do those things (see "They Came Before Columbus"), and yet there is no historical record that these Africans attempted to replace the truth of their exploration with lies that supported an oppressive world view. Is that really the best you got? Is your final answer "It's OK for them to be wicked because if I were in their place I would be just as wicked as they are"? This is your legacy we're talking about here brah, and it seems to be just the two of us left in this thread. Go ahead; be honest with yourself on just one little issue.

Denmark Vesey said...

Ahhhh .. Ex.

This is deja vu ... all over again.

"Since it's about experience, mine is that Black folks never really get that "opportunity" you mentioned." Exodus

Black people ... never ... get.

That's the part you don't seem to understand Ex.

Nobody just ... "gets" to do any fucking thing.

People who make shit happen ... make shit happen.

Those people are neither white people, nor black people. They are "Make Shit Happen" people.

Make shit happen people tend to operate in their perceived self-interest and are not prone to magnanimity. They do things Because. They. Can.

"Would that make it right or righteous?" Exodus

No.

It just makes shit happen.

And it gets pieces of ocean named after you and gets maps that exaggerate the size of your nation.

But back to this "black folks never get to" nonsense.

You think the Pharonic kings of Kemet bent over backwards to represent their kingdoms exactly to scale?

You think the kingpins of Jamaica Queens purchase rims that are accurate representations of their wealth?

Exodus, ripping the whiteness off the face of supremacy is the first step to escaping it.

Anonymous said...

Dude that was an incredible rant against something that YOU said. to wit,

"My experience, is that black people, given the opportunity, are just as subjective and prejudiced as anyone else." - DV

Now you want to jump all over those very words and claim that when they come out of my mouth it means that I am creating my own oppression by giving all power to the "Make Shit Happen" people? Am I getting you on this?

And all the while you avoid the main point that got me into all of this, that you won't address. WHY, DV?

Why are you defending what you acknowledge to be wrong? Why are you the champion of the unrighteous, oppressive behavior of any people, in any respect?

My impression from your post "Why Not?" was that you recognized that our view of the world has been turned upside down, but that the true representation was there for any who chose to look at it. I got the impression that your question, why not, was directed to all of us, having been subjected to this distortion of reality, as a suggestion that we had a choice to reject the upside down view and embrace the true perspective that we are not the least among these.

Did I give you too much credit here?

Fish mused about the reasoning for the upside down perspective. You wondered why that was relevant. I gave you a scenario on why it was relevant.

And we're right back to you accusing me of contributing to my own oppression and collaborating with the white supremacists that you once again won't acknowledge even as you display the evidence of their works. Instead you want to call the the make shit happen people and equate them with idiots who understand capitalism so well that they throw away huge sums of capital on depreciating liabilities.

Brah please. Let it go now if this is the best you got on this. I don't need nothing else.

Denmark Vesey said...

"Why are you defending what you acknowledge to be wrong?"

Wrong? Who said it's wrong?

That's a relatively amateurish notion Ex. I'm surprised you would tackle this issue with such an After School Special type of attitude.

I am no more championing any particular behavior than a scientist champions gravity. I am simply observing it.

"My impression from your post "Why Not?" was that you recognized that our view of the world has been turned upside down," Exodus

No.

"Why Not?" illustrates that our view of the world is what it is, because we choose to see it this way.

You own a map Ex. You have children. Is it on their wall upside down?

There's no International White Map Police who shoot people for failing to graphically depict the Earth in a manner they choose.

We are free to view the Earth, any way we please.

Supremacy is bestowed and Subservience is voluntary.

Michael Fisher said...

Running a game on people, and that's all white supremacy is, is based on image manipulation. Deception.

The first step towards liberation is mental liberation and that requires: Why?

From there let logic take over and have it lead you wherever it takes you.

You might want to check out the history of cartography, DV.

Denmark Vesey said...

Nah Mike.

I'm too busy manipulating images.

You wrestle with "why".

Which is a pillow in the proverbial knife fight.

I'll box with "do".

Which is a gun at a gun fight.

Nubinikki said...

esther said...

not as as effective as the peters map, but it works.

---I know I'm late to the conversation, but it looks like the map you're displaying sideways IS the Peters Projection Map. DV, did you change it to the Peters Map after your original post?
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Intellectual Insurgent said...

RJ,

The Nile is indeed the only river that flows north.

--Actually RJ, there are many rivers that flow north, which is not so strange, because all rivers simply want to do is flow downward, regardless of whether that's N-S-W-E.

http://www.geocities.com/loisnotlane/rivers.html