"White Supremacy:
(1) The direct or indirect subjugation of all “non-white” people by white people, for the basic purpose of “pleasing” and/or serving any or all “white” persons, at all times, in all places, in all areas of people activity, including Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion, Sex and War.
Denmark Vesey said ..
Mike. You are black. Do you serve and please Skip Sievert?
39 comments:
DV...
"Mike. You are black. Do you serve and please Skip Sievert?
If Skippy is "white" then indirectly, via the system, sure. And so do you.
Now how pleased he, as an individual, is with that, I don't know.
"If Skippy is "white" then indirectly, via the system, sure." MF
Mike. I think you are right. You do serve and please what you call "white people". However, you do so, because you choose to. You want to. You are comfortable with that paradigm. The "system" is simply your excuse ... to do something you are inclined to do anyway.
But for the love of God, please stop implicating the whole of black people in the capitulation of your individual freedom.
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery...
None but ourselves can free our minds." Bob Marley
DV...
I bet you that, by denying the System and thus not combating it, you do a hell lot of more serving and pleasing than I could ever do.
I mean let's look at it:
Just most recently you came to the defense of a "white" guy who fetishizes black women and proclaim him as "decent" and "good-natured".
You, just as the System wants you to do, succumbed to the System's standard of "beauty" and declared a light-skinned sister as the most beautiful (was it black woman or just woman, I don't recall) woman on the planet.
You worship and propagandize Gangsta "hip Hop", which Gangsta is being shoved down the minds of our youth by white folks whom you otherwise despise for being Zionists, but who in this case, I guess are "enablers of black supremacy", and by implication your heroes. White ones at that...
The list goes on and on.
Now don't that seem a bit House-Negroish? Basically, aren't you are behaving like a wiseacre Negro Butler, a la Benson?
If I were "white" these actions of yours sure would be pleasing to me.
"bet you that, by ... denying ...
the ... System ... and thus not combating it..." MF
Michael. Listen very carefully:
My denying of the system ... combats it .... FAR MORE ... than your AFFIRMING ... of the system.
Do you not understand that?
Acknowledging Classical's humanity ... denies the system ... far more than your attributing magical power to his nonexistent "whiteness".
Do you not understand that?
You obsess about people who do not even know you exist.
Your Turrets like Freudian accusations of "House Negro" are obviously your personal fears revealing themselves like herpes sores on a nervous first date.
You just announced to the world that, in your mind, you serve and please Skip Sievert.
Now Festas, that just aint a good look.
DV...
"Your Turrets like Freudian accusations of "House Negro" are obviously your personal fears revealing themselves like herpes sores on a nervous first date."
LOL. That's a good one.
"Acknowledging Classical's humanity"
Still licking white racist butt, I see.
I didn't say he isn't human, I said he fetishizes black women, which fact you have not denied, Benson.
And don't give that white boy too deep of a rim job. No telling what you might catch. San Fran, you know. Lots of DLers at the Academy of Art U.
DV your body is a "system". Does each individual cell have complete autonomy or ultimate control over how the system functions? Do you not understand the concept of a system. You seem to think any individual within the system that exhibits something that might be aberrant to the system would necessarily negate the system. That's just pure nonsense and you know it. Same as if you have one cancerous cell it doesn't mean your body doesn't function as a system.
And the other argument that to acknowledge something is to give it power over you is equally ignorant. It's rather like saying that acknowledging high rates of crime in Black communities contributes to high rates of crime in Black communities. To acknowledge a problem is one of the first tenets of recovery, or in your parlance, confession is good for the soul.
Are you insane to say that you are combating something that you deny even exists, by denying that it exists?!?!?!? You don't get anywhere denying the evidence of your senses. You don't get anywhere living with a cancerous tumor growing inside you and persisting in denial that it exists. Paint a rosy picture all you want, that won't change the facts or cure the cancer. Even faith healing requires that you exercise faith.
You really can do better. Your two responses to a theory of GSWS are trying to make one cell the equal of a system, or trying to conflate recognition of a problem with being part of the problem. Two equally illogical positions and neither of is is a good look.
Since you're talking about a behavioural system Dwight, surely you've taken into consideration the fact of bicamerality as a baseline for all human cognition and behaviour, both individual and collective?
Simply put, in your own subjective experience, in the ordinary waking state of your conscious awareness, there is always a "talker" and a "listener" (at least one of each, but more precisely a "legion" of these as the gospel teaches)
Now in your unreconstructed and still unfalsifiable GSWS - is the "system" the collective talker or the collective listener?
Who by the way - in either the individual or the collective psyche - is in charge?
Is it the talker or the listener who's running the show?
Good post Exodus. Your response is exactly what I expected.
Now. Follow me.
Are you "denying" ... the existence of a "Global System of Black Supremacy"? Do you understand the concept of a system?
Do your "senses" not see the beautiful, the divine, the soulful, the powerful Muhammad Ali completely destroy Oscar Bonavena in the video above?
Do your "senses" suggest that I "please" and "serve" the shucking and jiving 52 year old white man who cleaned my golf clubs at the end of my round just yesterday?
Do your "senses" not see Senator Barack Hussein Obama employ his blackness to do something Senator John Edwards could never do - make people feel him?
You see Ex, this omnipotent "System" to which you subscribe is built upon smoke and mirrors. It is a false power. The emperor has no clothes. It's foundation is carefully designed myth, fear and historical revisionism.
It suggests the roots of philosophy took shape in Greece not in Africa, while the word "philosophy" is not even a Greek word.
It suggests white men with names like Aristotle instead of African men with names like Imhotep first developed a complete normative approach to scientific inquiry.
You see Ex, if there is a GSWS, it's power is directly proportional to how much you buy into it.
300 years ago a young Denmark Vesey urged and cajoled the 9,000 blacks in Charleston South Carolina to revolt against the 2,000 white plantation owners.
The Mike Fisher's of his time replied: "You Cwazy!! Dey Got Gunnnz!! Dey got da muhlitia!! Dey Too Powaful!!"
Denmark understood that the white minority was able to enslave the black majority, by enslaving their minds with Wizard of Oz like fear.
His plan would have worked ... if the subscribes to WHITE SUPREMACY had not run and told the plantation owners of Denmark's plan to free his people.
Think about it Ex. When they burned Denmark Vesey at the stake, his spirit did not die in that fire.
His spirit is speaking to you right now.
"Now in your unreconstructed and still unfalsifiable GSWS - is the "system" the collective talker or the collective listener?" Cnulan
Whoa! Shoot. Buzzer. Bucket. Game Over.
Preach CNu Preach!
Lawd ha mercy ... as my grandfather would say.
" You see Ex, if there is a GSWS, it's power is directly proportional to how much you buy into it." -DV
Good Stuff, DV.
Congratulations Ex. As, through your well versed, factually based post, you have succeeded at getting DV to conced that the GSWS MAY actually exist. This is progress.
"You see Ex, this omnipotent "System" to which you subscribe is built upon smoke and mirrors. It is a false power. The emperor has no clothes. It's foundation is carefully designed myth, fear and historical revisionism."
Thanks for the instruction. It's like an avowed atheist giving you lessons on the nature of God. How exactly do you arrive at any understanding at all of a concept whose existence you absolutely reject. Even though you happen to be correct, up to a point, here you still have no foundation for even offering this opinion. And stop with the history lesson. I know about the African Origin of Civilization and all the subsequent historical greatness of people of African descent. And while I take enormous pride in the accomplishments of my ancestors I also recognize that that history was intentionally obscured for centuries as a direct result of the GSWS. Further, not one bit of that history controverts anything at all to do with the theory GSWS
Same old DV. Keeps pretending he knows what I'm thinking and making shit up as he goes along. I have not denied a Global System of Black Supremacy. I hadn't been confronted with the concept prior to your adoption in response to the GSWS conversations and I actually considered that to be facetious on your part. I say that not because I feel Blacks are inferior, but because in the context of an analogy, the GSBS you postulate does not in any shape, form, or fashion constitute the antithesis of a GSWS. Therefore I paid it no mind.
However, if I were to respond to that, I would have to point out, YET AGAIN, that you completely and intentionally twist the theory to suit your own purpose of denigrating it. Your descriptions of Black Supremacy are often wonderful exercises in pride in ones people. But if in fact there was a system of Black Supremacy I would be forced to advocate against it. I do not hold myself to be superior to anyone. I am the best I can be and I have no problem with anyone else being the best that they can be. If your GSBS (and I am making a concerted effort to not simply refer to it as BS from here on). The same illogical and destructive control mechanisms practiced by the GSWS only now in the hands of irrational and illogical Black folks is not what the solution for which I strive.
"You see Ex, if there is a GSWS, it's power is directly proportional to how much you buy into it"
You see DV, if you do have a cancer, it's deadliness has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you know about it or acknowledge it. However wheter or not it ultimately kills you has a lot to do with how you respond to it. I understand denial is not just a river in Africa, and also a real good way to ensure a fatality from cancer. Did you not understand earlier when I pointed out that fallacy of your reasoning?
On top of that, I have stated categorically that I advocate the complete destruction of the GSWS, so how do your rationalize that with your ridiculous assertions that Mike and I are actually supporters of the system and actively engaged in holding Black people back? I post and comment enough for you to be able to find one, just one, instance where I even hinted that Black folks should "go along to get along" or acquiesce in any way with GSWS oppression. You won't because it doesn't exist. If it wasn't so ignorant it would be laughable. You aren't going to make me what you think I am simple by saying it over and over, louder or with more panache. I won't let the GSWS or the GSBS do that.
And stop cosigning shit you don't understand. Even if you did understand it, how exactly is it the winning shot you are prematurely celebrating?
Cnu, I have been acquainted with a similar thesis, although the presentation on subrealism is somewhat different. I don't understand why your concept excludes the simple and viable possibility that both speaker and listener exist, often concurrently. All systems receive input from the parts of the system and respond according to the needs an purposes of the system. I maintain that the GSWS operates in the same fashion, both "talker" and "listener". I don't discount the hive mind theory, however the assumption that the change from that state was a devolution rather than an evolution or that it may have removed us from a closeness with "God" are not ideas that I can so easily accept.
Congratulations Ex. As, through your well versed, factually based post, you have succeeded at getting DV to conced that the GSWS MAY actually exist. This is progress. Anonymous.
Anonymous,
You aint reading if that's what you took from this thread. DV, no more "concedes" there to be a GSWS, than he denies the richness of Black history.
D "Benson" V...
"300 years ago a young Denmark Vesey urged and cajoled the 9,000 blacks in Charleston South Carolina to revolt against the 2,000 white plantation owners.
The Mike Fisher's of his time replied: "You Cwazy!! Dey Got Gunnnz!! Dey got da muhlitia!! Dey Too Powaful!!"
So let me see, DV. Would the real Denmark Vesey have praised the "humanity" of a self-proclaimed white man who fetishizes black women and who can't wait for your daughter or mine for that matter, to grow up so he can do the same to them?
You talk about Ali as if his achievement were yours. Or as if he, of all people as a follower of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, would have denied the existence of white supremacy.
Again, here you, Benson, keep defending the white black-women-fetishizer. Would the real Denmark Vesey have done so? Me thinks not.
Lemme ask you something. Are Doug Morris and Lyor Cohen, both die-hard Zionists, enablers of "black supremacy"?
House Negro, please.
Here is a little primer on history and slavery..
The Technate & Energy-TNAT TheNorthAmericanTechnate
These days every one is slave bait.
Wage slave bait. It could well happen that a whole bunch of contemporary Denmark Vessey's are going to get pretty angry pretty soon.
This time lets hope that enough knowledge is around to really change our society into something else.
I agree that Fisher is dreaming a strange dream.
Come on man... its 2008.
Ain't nobody got no papers on you. Ha.
An excerpt from the above article.
Inanimate energy Appliances.
The fact that we get motive power now from machines and extraneous energy rather than human muscle power as in the past makes it possible to run an engine, stove, jet or dynamo, and is one reason why literal human slavery became obsolete in the early part of the Industrial revolution.
It became too expensive to maintain humans in regard to their labor contribution.
It became pointless within the context of the Price System to literally enslave humans when machines could do most of the work in a more energy efficient way.
Since the Price System is all about making money and social control, the so called morality of enslaving other humans was never the root issue. Money making is always the root issue in a Price System.
Because of our various energy production and delivery systems now and the myriad designs which convert that power into desired functions, each person has many inanimate energy appliances working on their behalf 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Unlike the human slaves that were used in the past such energy converting machines do not suffer, tire, complain, or run away.
Slavery in the industrialized world disappeared shortly after the release of coal power and the steam engine.
Human slave owners understood that human slaves required a lot of overhead in money or debt tokens to maintain and the new machines did not.
Because a humans output (about 1/20th of a horsepower, around 36 watts) became more expensive than machine power to maintain and would not allow then for a Price System profit, slavery was abolished and those human slaves then made into wage slaves to join the already working free wage slaves.
Instead of being owned as private property and bought and sold on a contractual civil law basis, human slaves were given wage slave status instead in the class system of modern North America.
It remains for the future to also free the wage slaves from their unfortunate position.
The Technate design does that as it eliminates this ancient feature of the Price System (wages).
The transition from a scarcity based human labor system, class control system, to an abundance based scientific social system has begun.
The transition point of mechanical energy surpassing human generated energy occurred in the United States in about 1913.
People in North America have multiple inanimate energy appliances working around the clock on each persons behalf.
Operating a Technate is determined by the amount of energy made available in the context of sustainable abundance and resource protection.
People consume energy to perform their desired activity and in the process of contributing to society.
Energy availability = desires of a consuming public being fulfilled within that context of getting what they care to get in relation to sustainable abundance.
And who administers, Skippy?
This stuff ain't nothing but a souped-up version of Marxism-Leninism.
Can you read? Can you think? Do you understand what a Price System is? Do you understand that this system uses energy and not Rubles? Can you understand that Communism and Capitalism are based on Adam Smith economics? Can you understand that this is not a political system it is an administration by science?
Can you get the point that this is not like the glorification of toil.. a concept based on human labor in Communism.. which is only a system that is reactionary to another outmoded system... Capitalism.
Put on your thinking cap.
Granted this is creative stuff.
You perhaps can wrap your mind around it if you forget about your crap reference point of Communism.
Maybe, maybe, Skippy. The question still remains: Who administers?
Michael Fisher said...
"And don't give that white boy too deep of a rim job."
You know Mike, it's at time like these ... when your inner homo reveals itself.
I can see you right now ... sitting at your Dell computer, wearing an Extra Medium Tee shirt tied around your navel, biking shorts and some rainbow leg warmers ... racking your brain for an excuse to introduce "rim jobs" to the discussion.
It is a kind of dictatorship of science.
The problem with a belief system based oligarchic construct is that they are all controlled by special interest groups.
This system differs from that.
It is an administration by factual things... not opinions or belief.
Michael Fisher said...
"You talk about Ali as if his achievement were yours."
They are ...
As are Imhotep's and Hannibal's and Alan Watt's.
"Or as if he, of all people as a follower of the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, would have denied the existence of white supremacy."
Michael, Michael, Michael ... How wrong can an Ol' Timey Negro be?
How in the hell would The Greatest have ever said some shit like he "pleases" and "serves" Howard Cosell the way you said you "please" and "serve" Skip Sievert.
You must have bumped your big ol' bald head.
Fisher... I hereby liberate you. Actually you are already free... but like a dog that cowers if invited into the house...if formerly punished for sneaking in.. you may be suffering by being inculcated with nonsense.
So in a poetic way consider yourself free from bondage. Funny that is a money term... or slave term.
Those days are over.
Now a days it is all about wage slaves.
Now that is a boat we are all in pretty much.
Even the ''class'' that advocates for itself and the Price System.
They are also victims of not understanding the dynamic.
Nobody ain't got no papers on you.. nor any one else.
rotflmbao
comedy muhphuggin gold......,
Good stuff Skip.
Skip, you are a bit too quick to deride the idea of a GSWS. I would expect more of someone who has peeped as much of the game as you have. As much as you might like to think that it's all about class and money now, there are too many of us in the Black community who know different. The GSWS uses the institutions of the price system as an instrument of control exactly as you postulate. Why is it so difficult for you to imagine that a particular group of people could be singled out for extraordinarily harsh control tactics?
It's still germane to the discussion because one of your goals has to be to get people to begin to consider the "new" concepts you are bringing. Do you think people are more likely to dismantle the system because they are tired of the ramifications money or because they are tired of white supremacy? Maybe you'd do better to conceptualize this as the same battle on two fronts, rather than the tack you are currently taking. Mike is justifiably loath to trade in one control system for another that could arguably be worse, if not in theory certainly in practical application. Your refusal to acknowledge the historical reality and continued pervasive nature of the GSWS could lead one to think that you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
DV...
"Mike. You are black. Do you serve and please Skip Sievert?
If Skippy is "white" then indirectly, via the system, sure. And so do you."
Mike, this discussion went completely off the tracks the second you let DV get away with his usual gross misinterpretation of your answer. I have no wish to involve myself just to correct him, but for the sake of clarity, you should.
No doubt there are pockets and groups of raging race bigots out there.
No doubt our country was fathered on slavery.
I would never argue those points.
I am just saying that it is an ill way to define yourself.. as a victim.
We must all unite for real change. NOW... and now is what counts.
rotflmao
Indeed. Ha.
"You see DV, if you do have a cancer, it's deadliness has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you know about it or acknowledge it."
Uh ... wrong again grasshopper.
Mind over matter.
Very few serious health practioners deny the consequences of 'state of mind' on the health of the body.
Doctors give people placebos that "miraculously" cure them everyday.
They also diagnose relatively healthy people with cancers who suddenly develop the symptoms.
If you think you sick, you get sick.
If you think you are strong and beautiful and healthy, and wonderful, and powerful - you got a lot in common with me.
You and Mike Fisher advocate with near mantra like repetitiveness, that black should participate in the hypnotic suggestion that they *** “please” and/or serving any or all “white” persons, at all times, in all places, in all areas of people activity, including Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion, Sex and War.***
Where Dem Bombaclot Get Dat Frum?!?
What other group of people on earth, have ever empowered themselves by attributing such all encompassing omnipotent superpowers to their adversaries?
Ex ... I get Mike Fisher. But you? How you wrap yourself in this flag?
Thanks for keeping this conversation on such a mature and intelligent level, Mike. You are indeed the bigger person.
DV...
"I can see you right now ... sitting at your Dell computer, wearing an Extra Medium Tee shirt tied around your navel..."
How did you know?
Dwight...
"Mike, this discussion went completely off the tracks the second you let DV get away with his usual gross misinterpretation of your answer."
D "Benson" V's brain does not appear to be wired for logic, Dwight. See the "mind over cancer" comment.
Besides, he likes things the way they are.
Skip Sievert...
"It is a kind of dictatorship of science.
The problem with a belief system based oligarchic construct is that they are all controlled by special interest groups.
This system differs from that.
It is an administration by factual things... not opinions or belief."
Yep, that's precisely what Marx and Lenin said. Trotzky, too.
But who, Skippy, determines what science is? Where science is supposed to go? Who administers your energy credits?
"Since the Price System is all about making money and social control, the so called morality of enslaving other humans was never the root issue. Money making is always the root issue in a Price System.
And this shows that you either have no idea how the current system in pace functions or that you are trying to deceive folks. I think it's the former.
Under the system we have today the making of "money" is not the object. Social control is. Money, in the last analysis, is a social construct which is given reality by the threat of organized violence.
We do not live in a "capitalist" system.
Get that through your head, Skippy.
Well... every thing I have tried to explain you do not understand. So be it.
Fisher you are a natural born victim.
You have to be able to figure out who the opposition is for starters before going forward.
Well Skippy, we've already established that I am a slow person. So please, go ahed and answer these questions:
Who determines what science is?
Where science is supposed to go?
Who administers our energy credits?
Would that be you, Skippy? Or would it be Benson? C1?
Or, lo and behold. I know. It would be ME!
I can go for that.
Sorry I do not respond so well to insulting rhetoric.
The information has nothing to do with me. I am an advocate for this system.
There is no such thing as ''energy credits''. You are equating this with a money system.
Energy units or certificates// is the description.
More information is available on the internet. I gave some links above also.
This program is not comparable to a money system.. it is an accounting system only.
No carrot... no stick.
Energy credit is a misnomer in this regard.
If you have ''credit'' Q must follow P and you must have ''debit''.
This system uses neither credit or debit. It is non-monetary.
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