None of that diminishes that fact that he KNEW she was a youngin'. He's a grown man who lives a life of indulgence without limits. You can’t transfer the blame to this GIRL who is MOST likely wrought with serious problems. R Kelly is no different than the average pedophile, he can just afford representation. And since he can afford atty's, he can afford THERAPY.
F**k it, he can flip another booty song. And I’m gonna buy it ;-)
Yes, consent requires a minimal emotional maturity. Agreed that there are 40-year-olds who should be on a leash (well said), but most 15-year-olds don't have the maturity to safely drive a car, let alone have crazy sex.
I'll be the first to admit that 18 and 21 are arbitrary lines in the sand to mark as ages of maturity for certain things, but there are good reasons why everything from contract law to criminal law distinguishes between kids and grown ups.
Paradoxically too, I wouldn't be so bothered if the boy was 15-years old, but the difference in ages and her youth are troubling.
Not sure what the alternative is. Do we lower the age of consent? Abolish it altogether? Perhaps we measure maturity by cognitive development - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
I agree that somethings are "for adults." Like contracts. And I agree that RKelly is a pedophile. However, generally speaking, regarding sexual behavior, I think we are lying to ourselves if we think that kids under 18 arent KNOWINGLY charging full speed ahead. Obviously, there are cases where children are being manipulated and taken advantage of. And obviously, there are repurcussions from sex (like pregnancy) that someone 18 yo is not equipped to deal with, but IMO, that doesnt change the reality that kids under 18 are CHOOSING to "do it" - consistently and repeatedly so. When I was in high school from 93-96, I had TWO friends sleeping with guys that were of age. Under traditional theories, these guys were playing with fire in terms of potential Stat Rape cases. In reality, I had two hot ass friends who knew what they were doing and actively sought out ways to do so.
When I did it - before 18 - I knew what was going on!
Kids just arent as innocent and shielded as they once were is all I'm saying.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
I'd bet there are 12-year-olds pushing full steam ahead too, but it wouldn't be ok for R. Kelly to pee on them either. :-) Is it really relevant if the 15-year-old is going full speed ahead? Presumably, pedophiles who hunt kids on the internet are finding kids who knowingly participate, but does that doesn't make it ok.
The question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing. Perhaps a good analogy is criminal law. Is a 15-year-old who robs a liquor store the equivalent of a 30-year-old who does? If so, then 15-year-olds should be subject to the same punishments. If not, why?
Do we abolish the distinction between child and adult and tailor laws to the maturity of each person? Which I am not saying is necesarily wrong.
Re: the origins of stat. rape, here's what I found on Wikipedia. Interesting that it raises all the issues that you and I have brought up -
And real quick re: the stat rape policy link, many of the stated justifications are no longer valid in this day and age, i.e., access to birthcontrol, this one sticks out in my mnd.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
Amazing question Robyn. Damn. You get points. (I thought you were slippin' lately too)
I'll bet you the "Stat Rape Laws" just like the so called "domestic violence laws" can also be traced back to ... excuse me D ... the anti-family secular feminist public policy that has been waging a war on heterosexuality for a long time.
DV, your point is well taken. It's going to take a minute to decide, though, whether as a rule I think it should be legal for a 30-year-old to pee on a kid. :-)
Is there no protection for any children? What if a 7-year-old says ok?
Slippery slope ya'll... Things are possible until it's your 12 y.o. daughter with a 40 y.o. man... Then you have a murder case. There is a reason why society gravitates to certain policy. Victims/participants must be party to your debate to understand the full spectrum of this topic.
i will kill a muthafucka. i feel ike there must be some weed smokin' going on in this discussion. wouldn't you rather call it a crime and arrest the stank adult than have someone tell you your 13 yo daughter said yes and so all bets are off? cause then, like somebody said, you got murder.
i was having sex LOOOONG before it was credible to be doing so and i know now that what i said, and what I "knew" about what I was saying was about as far apart as Turkey and Texas.
if we don't protect our babies, who will. and i mean even the one we don't give birth/life to.
True dat! It had all gone down by 15!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I knew FULL well what I was doing at 15.
ReplyDeleteNone of that diminishes that fact that he KNEW she was a youngin'. He's a grown man who lives a life of indulgence without limits. You can’t transfer the blame to this GIRL who is MOST likely wrought with serious problems. R Kelly is no different than the average pedophile, he can just afford representation. And since he can afford atty's, he can afford THERAPY.
F**k it, he can flip another booty song. And I’m gonna buy it ;-)
....I'm a flirt....when I walkinto the club....I'm a flirt!
ReplyDeleteThats my shit right now. LOL
Now if Chris Hanson would have caught his ass it would have been a rap! Perverted Injustice in this case.
ReplyDeleteReally if that was not a little girl of color what would the outcome have been! A can of Woop Ass for the R.
You feel me?
The fact that a 15-year-old kid knows what's going on doesn't mean that kid has the maturity to deal with it.
ReplyDeleteBut Dina, does consent require emotional maturity? If so, know some 40 year olds who should be on a darn leash.
ReplyDeleteRobyn,
ReplyDeleteSuch the lawyer. :-)
Yes, consent requires a minimal emotional maturity. Agreed that there are 40-year-olds who should be on a leash (well said), but most 15-year-olds don't have the maturity to safely drive a car, let alone have crazy sex.
I'll be the first to admit that 18 and 21 are arbitrary lines in the sand to mark as ages of maturity for certain things, but there are good reasons why everything from contract law to criminal law distinguishes between kids and grown ups.
Paradoxically too, I wouldn't be so bothered if the boy was 15-years old, but the difference in ages and her youth are troubling.
Not sure what the alternative is. Do we lower the age of consent? Abolish it altogether? Perhaps we measure maturity by cognitive development - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
Great Points! II
ReplyDeleteI agree that somethings are "for adults." Like contracts. And I agree that RKelly is a pedophile. However, generally speaking, regarding sexual behavior, I think we are lying to ourselves if we think that kids under 18 arent KNOWINGLY charging full speed ahead. Obviously, there are cases where children are being manipulated and taken advantage of. And obviously, there are repurcussions from sex (like pregnancy) that someone 18 yo is not equipped to deal with, but IMO, that doesnt change the reality that kids under 18 are CHOOSING to "do it" - consistently and repeatedly so. When I was in high school from 93-96, I had TWO friends sleeping with guys that were of age. Under traditional theories, these guys were playing with fire in terms of potential Stat Rape cases. In reality, I had two hot ass friends who knew what they were doing and actively sought out ways to do so.
ReplyDeleteWhen I did it - before 18 - I knew what was going on!
Kids just arent as innocent and shielded as they once were is all I'm saying.
As an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
ReplyDeleteI'd bet there are 12-year-olds pushing full steam ahead too, but it wouldn't be ok for R. Kelly to pee on them either. :-) Is it really relevant if the 15-year-old is going full speed ahead? Presumably, pedophiles who hunt kids on the internet are finding kids who knowingly participate, but does that doesn't make it ok.
ReplyDeleteThe question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing. Perhaps a good analogy is criminal law. Is a 15-year-old who robs a liquor store the equivalent of a 30-year-old who does? If so, then 15-year-olds should be subject to the same punishments. If not, why?
Do we abolish the distinction between child and adult and tailor laws to the maturity of each person? Which I am not saying is necesarily wrong.
Re: the origins of stat. rape, here's what I found on Wikipedia. Interesting that it raises all the issues that you and I have brought up -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape#Rationale_of_statutory_rape_laws
Intellectual: The question, in my view, is whether those kids were mature enough to understand the nature and consequences of what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteRobyn: I think the answer to this question in this day and age is "yes." Which is why I take issue with some stat rape cases. (not all, of course).
And real quick re: the stat rape policy link, many of the stated justifications are no longer valid in this day and age, i.e., access to birthcontrol, this one sticks out in my mnd.
ReplyDeleteRobyn said...
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, what the heck are the origins of Stat. Rape laws given that in the past, women married (and by implication were sexually active) at significantly younger ages? I wonder about the underlying policy?
Amazing question Robyn. Damn. You get points. (I thought you were slippin' lately too)
I'll bet you the "Stat Rape Laws" just like the so called "domestic violence laws" can also be traced back to ... excuse me D ... the anti-family secular feminist public policy that has been waging a war on heterosexuality for a long time.
Wow, now I'm thinkin' DV.
ReplyDeleteDV,
ReplyDeleteRobyn's been on point and blowin' shit up for the past few weeks. It's nice!
DV, your point is well taken. It's going to take a minute to decide, though, whether as a rule I think it should be legal for a 30-year-old to pee on a kid. :-)
ReplyDeleteIs there no protection for any children? What if a 7-year-old says ok?
Don't get me wrong D. I'm not sure it is "OK" for a 30 year old to pee on a 30 year old.
ReplyDeleteI'm just not pretending it is something we can remedy by passing laws.
Thanks for the props yall!
ReplyDeleteSlippery slope ya'll... Things are possible until it's your 12 y.o. daughter with a 40 y.o. man... Then you have a murder case. There is a reason why society gravitates to certain policy. Victims/participants must be party to your debate to understand the full spectrum of this topic.
ReplyDeleteI don't get your point J.
ReplyDeletei will kill a muthafucka. i feel ike there must be some weed smokin' going on in this discussion. wouldn't you rather call it a crime and arrest the stank adult than have someone tell you your 13 yo daughter said yes and so all bets are off? cause then, like somebody said, you got murder.
ReplyDeletei was having sex LOOOONG before it was credible to be doing so and i know now that what i said, and what I "knew" about what I was saying was about as far apart as Turkey and Texas.
if we don't protect our babies, who will. and i mean even the one we don't give birth/life to.